Starting a gaming store [Archive]

Eben Howard

03-14-2004, 02:43 PM

Hehe, well I brought my umbrella, so it's okay. :) [Edit: it turns out treading is not the same as raining... I"m not sure what response would be the equivilant to an umbrella against treading]

I guess to be clear, I should point out that my town has had two successful gaming places in the past, but both went out of business for personal reasons... So I know it _can_ be done here.

Snacks is, I suppose, a bit vague :) I'm planning on selling espresso and such, and have my place be more of a hang out/coffee shop for games than a real gamin store. In fact I was planning on focusing mostly on wargaming as far as carried product goes. There are several book stores in town (B&N, Borders, the country's largest Hastings) so the top selling books are saturated in my market. There is already enough RC type stuff too, as we have a Hobbytown. They've recently changed from being half gaming/ half RC to about 90% RC stuff.

My basic plan for making money is to make the place inviting to people who right now have very few places to hang out and game (ie: the Student Union on campus). I will also have regular events of the normal type (card tourneys, board game tourneys, workshops) to increase draw.

What I'm really looking for is an idea about what's being played right now. I know that will depend on my area, but I've been out of the gaming loop for a couple years (stuck in the Army) so I don't know if there's something big that's struck since then... I'm also not sure how well the Warhammer and its ilk are doing in general...

-Eben

Eben Howard

03-18-2004, 02:39 AM

Hehe, well I suppose I really shouldn't have posted something like this right at the start of GAMA...

I've also re-read my first post and it's painfully clear that my enthusiasm and optimism got in the way of any clarity... :(

I'm working on a sort of marketing survey now and will post a much better thought out thread at the beginning of next week.

-Eben

Laughing Cow Cheese

04-03-2004, 06:08 PM

WotC couldn't make a "place to hang out and play" successful in the heart of the retail area next to the University of Washington.

The problem with the place was it was very, very popular with students hanging out to play. Not a problem.

Students hanging out *don't spend money*. WotC sold food; didn't change the fact that the hangers out had no cash.

Many student union halls/coffee shops do not make money.

Eben Howard

04-05-2004, 08:10 PM

From what I understand, WotC was doing just fine with their hang-out place... But Hasbro didn't like it. That's what I've been told/heard from a number of sources.

In any case what I'm trying to do isn't what they did, in that my taget audience is much large (percentage wise). The people who would be hanging out at my place would be of three general types: Min. Wargammers, CCGamers, and people who play board games. I see most of my income from the first two coming from retail sales, and the last group (who would be largely older folk, even parents of the first two groups) buying espresso and such.

There is now no question that my model will be successful in my market. The question now is how successful. This will determine both the size of location I need and how many employees, among other things.

LCC- just to be clear, I do appreciate your warning. I just want to make it clear that that example has already been dealt with. If you have more specific information on it, I'd be more than happy to hear it!

-Eben

tigsmri

04-15-2004, 07:27 AM

eban I don't want to rain on your parade, however this business model that you have outlined has been done at least a thousand times before.

1. Miniatures games, RPGer, CCGers and wargamers 90% of the time do not get along well together.

2. As a rule of thumb being a small independent game store you will receive little or no support from the industry as a whole.

3. The businesses around your store will make more money off of your customers than you do, especially the fast food places.

4. You core customers (the one's that hang out)) unfortunately will be those who do not practice good hygiene are between the ages of 20-40 year old males that still live at home with thier parents. The will leave more messes and trash in your store than the money they put into your register.

5. You will work extremely long hours. You will be lucky if you make half of the current legal minimum wage.

6. You will only get about a 97% fill rate on each order you place with a distributor. The 3% of items that are put on back order will be the products that are unfortunatley your best sellers.

7. I would give you this one last piece of advice. If you think it would cost you $50,000 to open the business you had better have at least $100-200,000 to make a good run at it. Use the original $50,000 to open and the remainder for working capital to get you through the first 3 years. If you don't your shooting yourself in the foot from the get go.

But in the end if that still sounds like what you want to do, go for it. I did and I enjoyed almost every minute of it.

Good luck

Hippopotamus Rex

04-15-2004, 09:30 AM

Wow. I don't even know where to start. I'll give it a shot anyway...

1) Different gamer - You make it sound like RPG, CCG, and mini players will be drawing up sides like West Side Story. That just isn't the case. Different players get along just fine with each other.

2) Stores receive little support from the industry - Every single manufacturer in this inductry has some form of retail support. The bigger companies can obviously offer more supprt, but everyone has something.

3) Then offer food yourself. Sell soda/chips/candy. Or better yet stop worring about the things you cannot control and focus on the ones you can.

4)Customers with poor hygene- Kick them out until it improves then. You need to have an atmosphere that everyone feels comfortable in. Why on earth would you put up with that?

5)Long hours - You want your place to suceed? Put in the hours. Nobody said it would be easy.

6)Fill rate - That statement is just flat out wrong. I don't know where you heard this, nor I do care, but it's wrong. If we were always out of the best selling items we wouldn't be in business very long would we?

7)Starting capitol - I give you even better advise. Get a business plan together and KNOW how much money you will need.

VisionaryEntertainment

04-15-2004, 10:08 AM

Originally posted by tigsmri
eban I don't want to rain on your parade, however this business model that you have outlined has been done at least a thousand times before.

1. Miniatures games, RPGer, CCGers and wargamers 90% of the time do not get along well together.

2. As a rule of thumb being a small independent game store you will receive little or no support from the industry as a whole.

3. The businesses around your store will make more money off of your customers than you do, especially the fast food places.

4. You core customers (the one's that hang out)) unfortunately will be those who do not practice good hygiene are between the ages of 20-40 year old males that still live at home with thier parents. The will leave more messes and trash in your store than the money they put into your register.

5. You will work extremely long hours. You will be lucky if you make half of the current legal minimum wage.

6. You will only get about a 97% fill rate on each order you place with a distributor. The 3% of items that are put on back order will be the products that are unfortunatley your best sellers.

7. I would give you this one last piece of advice. If you think it would cost you $50,000 to open the business you had better have at least $100-200,000 to make a good run at it. Use the original $50,000 to open and the remainder for working capital to get you through the first 3 years. If you don't your shooting yourself in the foot from the get go.

But in the end if that still sounds like what you want to do, go for it. I did and I enjoyed almost every minute of it.

Good luck

1) Different strokes for different folks but the experience I have had as a gamer at events where all of those involved are playing at the same time in the same area got along just fine. ( If you live in Georgia, visit The War Room to see what I mean).

2) I would love to support your small and indy game store. I am a publisher and I know many other publishers who would love to help out those who will take and use our help.

3) Work with the surrounding business if you can. Offer coupons and combo deals, etc etc.

4) That's such a gross sterotype I don't even know where to begin with it. I own my own publishing company and I live with my mother as do all my other brothers. We all live basically within a block of each other since our Father passed away to A) help Mom, B) Keep an eye on her, C) help around the land. Don't make assumitions as to why someone stays with their family. Many productive citizens stay with their families to help each other out.

5) If you love it..it will be worth it.

6) I can't comment on that.

7) I think you have a pretty good idea of where you are going on this.

Eben Howard

04-15-2004, 03:51 PM

Thank you all for your comments!

I've gotten my business model worked out for the retail side of things and it will work for sure, so I'm not too worried about that now :D

Long hours - I'm in the Army now and I'm quite used to getting only five hours of sleep for months at a time and working really long days! So I'm not too worried about that either :D

Living with Mom - Most of the gamers I know how live with their mothers have much better hygiene than those that live on their own :P

Snacks, etc - I do plan on providing these in some way... how I provide them will depend on the space I get. If I can get the space I want then I'll have a full espresso bar and possibly a deli sandwich counter... Adding them won't take up too much more space but would increase my profits considerably.

Indy Pubs - I plan on supporting and promoting them as much as possible. ie: Cheap Ass Games tourneys. I'm also planning on promoting some interaction over the internet... but more on that later.

Again, thanks for the comments. Even the 'negative' ones make me sure I'm doing the right thing, as so far I seem to have covered all my bases fairly well.

-Eben

Greg_RPG

04-15-2004, 04:12 PM

Hmmm, here are some thoughts as for your business plan:

Costs:

Professional espresso machine (good one) 10 grand (my sister runs a coffee shop)
+10,000

Good retail location in a town that harbors stores such as borders, 1400.00 / month (rates would have to vary check it out)

Being a new business and being on a 1 year contract with your renter (assumed), they will probably want the first year up front (and will probably give you a discount).
+16,800.00

Your going to want to put retail products in your store, I don’t care if there is a borders, most gamers are impulse buyers, and if they have the money they will likely spend it at their hangout or at their favorite fast rood restraunt. You will want to be able to draw sales wherever possible. Stocking your shelves decently well for a small store, 3,000.00.
+3,000.00

Now we have to furnish your store, you will want some nice new clean tables for your coffee drinkers, 5 tables, at 100.00 each, 500.00. Now let’s get some used furniture for your game players, 6 large tables at 25.00 each. Total of $625. Throw in a couch, counter, shelves and chairs. $175. Oh also your going to need a cash register, and a credit card merchant. That’s another 200.00.
+1,000.00

Let’s get a large sign made for your store so people can see you exist.
+250.00

Now become a member of your COC (chamber of commerce) they will probably provide for you a free grand opening and an ad in the newspaper, you need all the publicity you can get.

Total Cost Around: 31,050 (assuming that I can add)

I have no clue where tigsmri came up with 100,000 - 200,000 but that was way off.

The coffee shop would be a good idea, you can draw allot of regular people from your town from your ad's just to come and sip coffee, you will probably want to keep your game players and your coffee drinkers separated as game players tend to be loud when they get excited playing the wonderful games of this industry. If you are going to sell coffee then good hygiene is a must (another reason to keep the coffee area and game players separated). I do strongly recommend you carry a full line of D&D products (trust me they sale), dice, and the war gaming stuff. I do not see you making much profit off of junk food like chips, or drinks so I would just keep them available for sell, to keep your game players happy.

As far as support goes. You will get plenty of that from us, after all, you are the front lines, you represent what makes distribution companies, and publishers able to stay in business.

Also I would like to add that I misjudged the size of your town. I would not consider a town that has a B&N, Borders,and the country's largest Hastings as a small town. I was thinking maybe a walmart and a post office LOL, oh wait thats my town. With a large town like you described staying in business should not be a problem if you think it out well and good a good location.

There's my .02 cents, and you will receive an invoice :)

tigsmri

04-16-2004, 07:54 AM

Let me clarify a few things.

First off I am mainly playing devil’s advocate. If you truly have a passion for opening a Game Store by all means go for it and I sincerely wish you the best of luck.

ACD Brad wrote:

Business plan is a must.

“2) Stores receive little support from the industry - Every single manufacturer in this inductry has some form of retail support. The bigger companies can obviously offer more supprt, but everyone has something.”

Example at one time Games Workshop made a business decision to ship rack deals to a specific line of chain hobby stores prior to the Christmas season and any thing that did not sale they could return for full credit. However if you where an independent hobby store even a chapter approved store you would have to purchase the rack deals and where stuck with the stock that did not sale at the end of the season.

“6) Fill rate - That statement is just flat out wrong. I don't know where you heard this, nor I do care, but it's wrong. If we were always out of the best selling items we wouldn't be in business very long would we?”

This was not a statement but fact. I have the invoices to prove it. 99% of the time it was not the distributors fault but the manufactures inability print or provide enough products to fill the orders. I will concede however the fact that the industry has changed a bit.

I will state for the record that I personally view Alliance Game Distributor as the best in the business. They will be your greatest allies and by far I believe they are the best in the industry.

Greg_Rpg wrote:

“I have no clue where tigsmri came up with 100,000 - 200,000 but that was way off.”

Follow this basic principal. If your monthly expenses are $5,000.00 you will have to sell approximately $10,000 a month to cover your expenses. That is a grand total of $120,000.00 a year worth of sales just to break even. Your goal should be to turn your inventory at least 3-4 times a year. At a minimum I would suggest to have at least double the funds needed to open the business.

You can feasibly open up a well stocked top rate game and hobby shop for around $50,000 this includes inventory, site build out, equipment and lease in a decent location. (If it is in a mall they tend to have restricted hours and will take X amount of a percentage of your gross sales, depending upon your lease agreement.)

The additional $50,000-$150,000 is to use for cash flow and working capital. This will give you buying power and allow you to make changes and sound business decisions as needed. Such as power buying hot items, close outs, purchasing lot inventories from other hobby and games store closings and help give you protection from unforeseen events or fluctuations within the industry and general market. This will also allow you to mold your customer base, weeding out the less desirable and those that wish just to hang out.

Example: 1996-1997 when TSR went belly up and sold out to WOTC, product for several months was unavailable through the traditional outlets. As a result massive sales where lost by all but a few within the industry. Those that had a good amount of working capital where able to cushion the blow by going outside the traditional suppliers to get the product and weathered the storm quite well.

In addition, try to make it to the big trade shows Gencon and Origins especially Alliances open house. You can get some really good deals; this will enable you to build networks by talking face-to-face with others in the industry to allow you to make informative business decisions when they are needed.

It is my true intention to give you some sound factual advice from someone who has been there before. I do truly wish you the best of luck in your endeavor.

Best wishes,

Trigsmri

Hippopotamus Rex

04-16-2004, 10:59 AM

So you made a sweeping statement based on one incedent from one company? Or am I missing something here? The manufacturers in this industry are happy to help retailers whenever they can.

As far as fill rates go, well, with out more information we can sit here and argue about all day and not get anywhere. I have no idea what you consider to be a top selling product, or how you calculate your fills. Do distributors run out of product? Sure. Most of us carry several thousand SKU's. It's bound to happen. But such blanket statement about distribution never haveing the products that stores need is pretty far off the mark.

tigsmri

04-16-2004, 01:06 PM

Brad you have totally missed the point, the fact of the matter is that things can happen, back orders, partial ships, delayed shipments, lost orders from the shipping companies or all together omissions of an order. The cause can be for many reasons; regardless of the fact a business that survives on retails sales must be prepared.

“If you don’t have the product in stock then you can’t sell it!” You have to have the right product at the right price at the right time. Now that is a blanket/sweeping statement!

That is why a game retailer should consider having enough stock on hand of their top 50-100 SKU’s (say 5-9 weeks supply) and enough working capital to allow the business to do so. A customer does not want to hear excuses of why you are out of something. They will go to where the product they want is readily available. If they have to wait they will generally order it from an online source at a discounted price. You will have a few loyal customers that will wait for items, but do you really want to risk losing sales if you do not have to?

You can take this information from me as someone making a knowledgeable observation or simply as an oppinion from a stranger either way I do wish you the best of luck.

Greg_RPG

04-16-2004, 01:39 PM

Why would you need monthly 5,000.00 income? Your only strict liabilities are the store which shouldn't be more then 1200-1400.00, even if you doubled that you would only get 33,600. These arn't million dollar start ups here. I know one store that brings in easily 1 million dollars a year, they didn't have 100,000.00 start up. Hell, I can't think of any hobby store that had 100,000.00 start up.

Eben Howard

04-18-2004, 07:40 PM

On the size of my town - It actually is kinda small as far as national averages go. But it has a lot more buying power than a normal town of its size, so it seems retail-wise like a much larger one.

Total Money Needed - Greg, you're pretty close to what I figured I'd need, except that I tallied in the cost of an employee, which is a lot, but I'll need at least one. Tig, your advise on getting enough to last for a year or two without any real income is advice I've gotten the most consistently from a lot of places! I do plan on having about 200k for startup costs which will get me through a full year and a half with no income. Provided I get income (which of course I expect to) then I will be able to expand some other ideas for the business that have a little more cost and a smaller return (but still a return bigger than the cost).

On the Cons - I've never been to one and I've always wanted to go! The other state college town (about two hours away) has a decent sized one every year and I haven't even managed to get to it... But with it being business related hopefully I can at least get to the big ones. This will depend largely on how good/trustworthy my employee/s are :D

All this talk makes me wish I was already in business instead of just planning it :D

-Eben

Greg_RPG

04-20-2004, 05:09 PM

Wow, you’re planning on having 200,000 start up. I don't know where your going to come up with that sort of cash but I wouldn't depend on business loans for that kind of start up for a small retail business specially one targeted for young adults. Banks and organizations only lend money out when the person is financially sound. That mean’s for a start up you need to have matching assets to equal your liability. So is your personal worth equal or above to 200,000? (No need to answer that in the post) If so, wow, be careful you don't risk more then you can afford to lose, I've seen too many store owners loose their homes. If you’re not worth 200,000.00, you may have some trouble coming up with such a large chunk of change. 200,000.00 to start a business usually requires risk capital and to get risk capital you have to be able to at the min triple the investment in one year, which as far as I am concerned is impossible to triple that large of investment as a start-up in this industry. I know people who have started multi-million dollar corporations on 70 grand so I do not see the need for such a large initial investment on your part.

Eben Howard

04-22-2004, 03:07 AM

To answer you greg, I'm planning on raising most of that myself... I'm right now in the process of finding my minimum and maximum feasible startup costs, and that's my max... more realistically I'll probably start at around 50k. But I find keeping my eyes on the higher start makes the smaller one easier to arrive at :) The two factors that dramaticaly change the startup costs is location and employees... and I'm still playing with the numbers and profability associated with those. As to starting up a multi-million on 70k... I wish I loved something that was more profitable than gaming :D but this is what I want to do and I'd rather be happy than rich any day. Although both would be okay too :D

-Eben

pingwin

04-28-2004, 05:24 AM

Two friends of mine have also ignored all the well intended advise and started their own gaming store. They are not doing brilliant but they are going strong. Sales are high enough to keep fed. :)

Key in their succes turned out the range of cheaper games suitable as gifts. Non gamers like to buy them and give them to friends/relatives and that provided them with an additional market. They also sell the fancy chessboards, MahJong sets and other deluxe stuff I would completely ignore.

Other shops (gameshops and large toysstores and the like) also offer these games but there seems to be a decent market for this.

Oh, might be relevant, I live in Holland and that is not the USA.

Game-n-Hobby-Central

04-28-2004, 08:21 AM

Key in their succes turned out the range of cheaper games suitable as gifts. Non gamers like to buy them and give them to friends/relatives and that provided them with an additional market. They also sell the fancy chessboards, MahJong sets and other deluxe stuff I would completely ignore.

Other shops (gameshops and large toysstores and the like) also offer these games but there seems to be a decent market for this.

Whether the line of games is cheap or not is almost irrelevant. The fact of the matter is, if you want to be truly financially successful, you will need to cater some portion of your store towards what is ocmmonly referred to as the mass market customer. The reason to do so is because there are more customers in the mass market than in our little niche hobby market.

Chess, Mah Jong, Backgammon, Bingo Supplies, Cribbage, Mancala, and especially Poker, are all excellent choices to stock in your store. All of these products are readily recognizable by your average mom and dad, thus making your store friendly to them, and not some "weird Dungeons and Demons or Dragons or something" store.

Furthermore, all of those aforementioned products display very well, and have amazing profit margins built into them.

If you only have limited space and money, I would make sure to select between 4-6 chess sets, ranging from a $40 folding set to a $200 set, with most in the $80-$120 range. I would make sure to get 6 backgammon sets... one 21", two 18", two 15", and one 9" set... all folding.

Finally, with all of the current demand for Poker thanks to ESPN's World Series of Poker being on ESPN, ESPN2, Bravo, and the Travel Channel, it is almost foolish not to stock Poker supplies. We stock 4g chips, 7g chips, 9g chips, and 11.5g chips. We also stock cards, deck shoes, cloth table covers, a folding table top that makes any table into a card table, along with several other casino game supplies.

The main thing to remember is that all of these product lines are products that are not fads, are easily recognized by your average mom and dad, and have terrific profit margins built into them.

Eben Howard

04-30-2004, 03:02 AM

More great advice! Hurrah! :D

I've been pondering on chess sets and such... I hadn't really considered poker stuff, but now that you mention it, it is a great idea. I don't really want to have gambling in the store, but non-gambling card games are good. And carrying supplies for others to gamble in their home is no problem. The toy store I worked in carried some of those items and they do have a great profit margin (at least compared to RPG books).

I will deffinately have some of the smaller games too. Not just the stuff like Cheap Ass Games, but probably more traditional ones too, like Phase 10. I know that all the box stores sell those, but I imagine I could sell them pretty easily during times when people are playing them in store.

-Eben

trechriron

05-03-2004, 08:13 AM

I am a volunteer/employee at my FLGS (see link below).

My boss makes PILES of cash on one pop machine and candy machine.

Good idea on the snacks, expresso would be HUGE! Hotdog grill? Microwave goodies?

We have a 2500 sq ft retail space and a 2500 sq ft playing area. That playing area ALWAYS has something going on. I cannot imagine a game store without one. People need something, they are playing, they step on over to the retail side and buy it. Not to mention FOOD! It all makes perfect sense to me.

Sounds to me like you have a solid plan. Thanks for being a game store owner! Our hobby is so much cooler with a FLGS around!

Ciao for now,

HinterWelt

05-03-2004, 09:59 AM

A concern of mine would be for greasy fingers destroying product. Food at a game store usually sonds great to a gamer but should raise concerns in the game store owner. I know I do not want to buy a grease smeared RPG book.

Police your game area well. It is mighty easy if the game play area, with all the gamers back packs, to have your merchandise wander that direction and never return.

I would suggest not allowing the use of store merchandise as reference material. It will help to reduce these problems. If they want to use the book they can buy it.

I am sure there is more. Just remember, not everyone will be your friend at the club house.

Bill

Eben Howard

05-04-2004, 02:15 AM

Food worries are something I've deffinately considered. In order to encourage good hygeine (and clean product) food products would be given out with a wet-nap supplied. I've found in other areas that simply having a wetnap available gets rid of a lot of grease on finger problems. As to product being used for reference, I will have a library of references that can be checked out (I'm not sure if a small fee will be included here) but retail product cannot be used. Also most of the retail product will be under the direct visual supervision of the marketing counter and/or under lock and key (for items like chess boards that should be displayed up front and will have a slower sell through). I do understand that customer theft is one of the biggest killers in gaming industry and I plan on have unobtrusive yet effective measures to help prevent it.

It makes me very happy and excited every time I think about opening this store, and I'm very happy to continue getting feedback and input from all of you!

-Eben

jdagna

05-04-2004, 11:00 AM

Originally posted by Eben Howard
I will deffinately have some of the smaller games too. Not just the stuff like Cheap Ass Games, but probably more traditional ones too, like Phase 10. I know that all the box stores sell those, but I imagine I could sell them pretty easily during times when people are playing them in store.

Just a comment from me on this: even though games like this are available from most major stores, I make an effort to buy them from game stores whenever I can find them as a comparable price. I'm not sure how representative I am of others, but I think it's a good idea.

ChrisW

05-22-2004, 04:24 PM

Something you might consider having in the shop is a PC w/ printer and/or photocopier, so folks can make their (non-copyright-infringing) copies of things like reference cards, character sheets, etc.

bill1219

10-16-2004, 06:09 PM

Hi Eban! It's been awhile since anything was posted to this thread, so I thought I would ask if you have made any progress? I am also considering opening up a gaming store in my area too. :D But I am from a fairly large city and all the game stores here are either very small or made exclusivly for the D&D type players and non-gamers are intimidated to enter. :rolleyes: And yes, I do play D&D as well, but we all know how a few people can give us all a bad name. :p

The hardest thing I am encountering is determining the size of store I need. Afterall, you would hate to need more room soon after opening. But then again, you also don't want to pay for wasted floor space. In my area, retail spaces go anywhere from $10 (hard to find unless you get 10,000 sq feet or more) to $30+ a square foot...and more if you want to be in a mall area. I think 5000 is probably as small as I could go with what I want to offer, and at an average of $20 a foot, that would be $8000+ a month not counting taxes. Unfortunatly I think it's the developers making all the money instead of the retailers. :eek:

Anyway, just wondering how you were progressing.

Bill

komradebob

10-17-2004, 11:03 AM

Quick Tangent:

One of my favorite things in LGSes are ones that do some used game buying and selling. Occasionally, seeing some of the backstock, I do wonder whether it is really in their interest, but, whatever. Presumably many go with a clik-and-morter approach.

One that i really liked ( in a very small Upstate NY town) had a cool approach to this. The store sold GW products. If you know GW fans, they're sort of crackheads (speaking here from personal experience). They tend to jump around a lot between games and armies they collect/accumulate. GW products tend to be fairly pricey.

Anyway, the owner of the store would take trade-ins for store credit for people's old armies. The armies were of extremely variable paint quality, ranging from some really nice pieces, to some stuff that was only primed or partially painted. He'd resell the stuff at about double or so what he'd given in store credit.

The thing is, this worked out for just about everybody. People switching armies knew that they could get a leg up on starting a new force, and dump a decent but unwanted army for a reasonable price, without the hassle of an online sale/trade/auction. People like me got a chance to actually buy some sizable forces at reasonable rates ( also avoiding online hassles ). And the store owner got to sell the same figures multiple times- first new, then again as a used force. Further, since he gave store credit, he was getting money back again when folks bought new armies. All-in-all, an everybody wins situation.

I'd contrast that approach to other gamestores I've seen where figures for sale are often more expensive than their unpainted, new products. While I can appreciate that artisan-painters add tons to a figure's appeal, it doesn't do a thing for gamers on a budget.

That last part might be a good thing to consider. Gamers do tend to work on limited budgets. Personally, I tend to make up mental wishlists when I hit the FLGS. I may not be able to drop $80 today on a smallish GW wh40k starter set, but I am likely to stop by the shop and spend $20-50 every week or so, with an occasional $80-150 foray every other month. Over the long haul, I suspect the "Nibbler-consumers" like myself tend to add up to bread and butter profits for store owners.

For a business plan, I would consider what you want the emphasis to be in terms of where you actually make your profit. I mean, do you want to wn a gamer friendly coffeeshop, or a game shop that sells snacks and coffee? Either one is probably workable. The LGS I mentioned above was about half Greetingcard/giftshop/local history bookstore and half game shop. The owner seemed to be doing okay, if not getting outrageously rich.

Try to figure out where your actual profit is likely to come from. Selling a ton of low cost items with a high per unit profit percentage may support other lower profit goods. The classic example have encountered was this upscale restaurant that I worked in. It sold pricey entrees and wines and cigars. However, the percent profit on those items was actually very small. Mostly, those things created the atmosphere of the place, telling potential customers what a fine, upscale experience they could have there. In terms of actually keeping the doors open, however, well liquor and common draft beer provided almost all of this joint's profit.

I guess what I'm saying is don't poo-poo the idea of things like vending machines or cheap coffee with refills. Those same gamers that hang out for hours and only occasionally buy a new model or book may well throw dollar after dollar into those other items. Joe Highschool or Jane College will definitely spend money. It may be $5/day in vending machines Monday thru Friday while hanging out ($25 each per week), or it may be a unit of LotR Uruk-Hai once a week ( also $25).

In any case, Much luck and success at your endeavor,
KB2

Arawn

10-17-2004, 11:46 AM

I started and owned a gaming store that I ran for 2 years before selling out to my partner. The store is still going strong. It is indeed possible, and there are LOTS of intangibles.

1.Expect to not make money. For a while. If you are counting on making a living off of this, don't. My partner and I each held our own job, and we were not dependent on putting the stores income in our pockets. By waiting to take money from it, we were able to make it work.

2. The Play Area thing is great; but it generally doesn't work in and of itself. We initially charged for use of the play area, and sold pencils, sodas, snacks and paper to help with it. People would pay to play, but it kept many of people away. We made more money by dropping memberships, and ourselves running games, hawking the latest books or goodies simultaneously.

3. Sell all different games. Despite some peoples assertions, the different gamer types get along fine, and often overlap. It is a hyped up myth they dislike each other. You need to sell CCGs and RPGs at least; CCGs are often better for day-to-day sales because they are constantly updating and people will buy stuff oiften. Additionally, if you runs tourneys for CCGs at even 2 bucks a person, and offer minimal prizes like a few boosters, you can make money or at least draw people to the store.

4. Watch your intake. If you are a gamer, it will be tempting to order yourself stuff, or take some stuff for yourself, especially if your friends play and you feel you are getting behind. Don't. Don't even take a discount. Your store will need money for a while, then you can take a discount.

5. Network. The biggest pillar of our success was that we knew alot of people who played games of all types. Talk to EVERY gamer you know, and get them to talk to every gamer they know. Most gamers will go to a small store instead of a retail book store just out of prinicple, and will bring people along.

6. Keep it fun. Anytime you start to feel overworked, cranky, or upset, take some time away. If the store owner is cranky and creates a tense atmosphere, the players can feel it.

Good luck!

Eben Howard

10-18-2004, 03:16 AM

I think I'm as suprised as everyone else that this thread still has some life left in it :D

My plan for focus was to essentially have a coffeeshop that was friendly towards gamers and sold gaming supplies, but I'd market it as a gaming shop that happened to have good coffee and other such things. Kinda how theaters make money by being a place to buy expensive soda and candies and popcorn that's friendly towards movie lovers, but they advertise as a place for movie lovers that happens to have snacks. To me the important thing would be the social aspect of gaming. I think there is a change in progress that will increase over time back towards social gaming and away from computer games to some extent. With so few non-alcohol related social activities people are often eager to do things less boring than going to church to hang out with people :D (no offense to anyone about the church thing, I actually enjoy going there myself. I just couldn't think of anything else as cross culturaly populer for social gathering that didn't automatically include drinking for most people...)

To Bill: I'm still a year away from when I could start my store... and changes in my personal life make it no longer feasible for me. But to answer the question about space, I was planning on having a very small retail space, about 2,000 sq ft mainly because a lot of the things I was planning on selling were smaller items. I suspect that you'll find that for you a larger floor space will pay off better though as you will likely have a higher traffic volume. The trick will be to find the balance between how closely packed your items are and how many of each will be out at the same time. (ie: how much backstock, if any, will be in storage). You'll need to think about what kind of shelving you'll have and how the product will be placed on it. You need to consider how tall your shelves are (you don't want them tall enough to block your view or stuff will dissappear even faster than it will otherwise) and how far apart your shelves are. Since my plan involved a relatively low concurrent traffic pattern (not many people at the same time usually) I planned on having my shelves closer together than you would probably want. Also the placement of your product will be important. Things at eye level and with the widest face out will sell the best. Things at foot level and with the narrowest side out (like books on a shelf) will seel the worst. It's unreasonable to put all you items at eye level and faced out, so you need to decide how much, and which items will get that space. Once you know how much you want in the prime zone you can figure out how many shelves you need. Then you'll know how much dead space you have for other products. An example of a good way to lay out D&D books would be to put the newest ones faced out at eye level with the backstock on the next shelf down either spined or faced out and the core books at the very bottem spined out. To figure out your total space needed you then add in the walking space at the front of the store and between shelves and the space the counter will take up. Don't forget that you probably want some display capabilities at your counter as that can often be a prime selling place that is overlooked. You don't want to overcrowd anywhere though... Somewhere in there is a sweet spot you're looking for. If there's other gaming stores in your area I suggest you visit them and take notes on what you like and don't like about the store, paying attention to product layout and traffic flow... Hope that helps!

-Eben

The Grey Elf

10-18-2004, 09:09 AM

One thing nobody's mentioned, yet.

Be careful about offering prepared food. Check and double-check the laws in your state/county/city about this. Here in Pennsylvania (or, at least, in Allegheny county), you have to be licensed to sell prepared food as though you were a restaurant, and are subject to regular checks by the health department to ensure that you are keeping your foodservice areas up to legal standards. This can open up a whole can of worms for someone unprepared for the responsibility of running foodservice. I know this because I spent a year as a manager of a local bagel shop here. Fines for stuff like this can kill you before you even get started.

The best way around this is to offer a microwave and frozen foods, like microwave burgers and fries. But then you'll need to very prominently display signs that there is a microwave in use on the premesis, because people with certain health conditions (pacemakers come to mind) can have problems near microwaves. Another tip to avoid lawsuits...

The coffee shop part I'm not sure what to tell you about, since I'm not sure what your local regulations are on that sort of thing. One of those machines that dispenses "espresso" or "vanilla latte" like you find in convenience stores might be one way to circumvent restaurant licensing, but you'd have to look into it.

I'd pop in to a couple local Barnes and Noble stores and talk to the managers there, since many B&N stores have built-in cafes, and ask what kinds of special licensing or permits they needed to operate. Then contact the local health department and make similar inquiries.

Just my $.02

tornspace

10-20-2004, 08:30 AM

I think 5000 is probably as small as I could go

Good Lord! Think for a second about just how big 5000 sq. feet really is. My entire house is 1150, and it's a 3 bedroom, 2 bath with a full living room.

That's either many many hundreds of games on the shelves or one gigantic playing area. And empty space is wasted money, so be sure you really think about your retail space!

sirfrancisdrake

11-08-2004, 11:47 AM

ever since i ahve been gaming i love spending time in gaming stores. hours and hours poring over the books, playing wargames, card games and everything. so much fun. I always thought it would be sweet to have all sorts of stuff besides games at the store. For college kids that means comic books, cds all sorts of stuff. I know in college me and my friends used to root for hours through racks of used cds. i think that selling things like ued cds could be cheap, sicne yu buy them cheap, but can bring in all sorts of people. if you sell yuh gi oh and other kids games, you should also sell manga, which is getting huge as everyone knows. you could hae a deal where fro every child under 12 who buys a manga, gets a free yu go oh booster or something. Also, in japan and tawian there are palces where you can rent manga and comics. if you had a library of comics and whatnot, you could charge people by the hour to read them. its huge in japan and taiwan!!! absolotuely huge!!! imagine going to this sweet coffe shop, and then finding out it sells awesome games, and you can read that new manga that you cant afford t buy!!! but for only 2 bucks you can read it for 2 hours!!! or something. im all excited, since i would love to open a game store, and can totally relate to what you are trying to do here. Good luck i hope everything works out for the best. Anyway these are just suggestions, and are bascially just the things i would love to do if i had the chance.

mike

Thornlord

11-12-2004, 02:04 PM

My advice is to not get too committed to a single distributor. I'm not sure if its possible to get them fighting for your business but definitely try. You need the deals and you need their support.

One of the local game stores here in Ontario, Canada went belly up due to the fact that he couldn't get the books people wanted in a reasonable amount of time. Pure and simple, his distributor constantly dropped the ball or put him as a lower priority to other stores.

I am not much of an impulse buyer anymore, my money goes toward bills (from when I was an impulse buyer). So when I want something I do want it sooner than later and have probably waited a long time simply saving up some extra cash for the item. To have to wait 4 months for a book is absurd but it happened constantly in this case.

BigBastard

11-28-2004, 12:06 PM

mcgooey

12-06-2004, 08:18 AM

So whats the deal with the gaming store has it. when will you start have you started it yet. whats the info on it?

dogsofwar

12-06-2004, 05:06 PM

I'm going to be opening a game store soon as well. I've already got an online store well established so I already have some idea what sells and what doesn't.

I'm in a town of 5600 people that has a small community college. We have no bookstores, a couple of walmart knock-offs, and 1 sports card shop that deals in a few ccgs. The closest game store that may exist is over 1 1/2 hours away.

My main gaming income comes from my online store, which is mostly CCG and miniature singles. I'm partly opening a store just for the space, (almost 3000 square feet), and most of my time will be spent dealing with online customers.

However, I'd like to hear some ideas in this situation to help draw buyers in. Keep in mind that I don't want to stock like I'm in a big-city, so I'm not going to be carrying a huge book line. But I do have a huge online inventory of singles. Should I focus on the CCG players, with plenty of table space for this? Being a small town, kids aren't around these kinds of games much. So there could very well be wargamers out there who don't know that wargames exist. So I thought I'd build up a large game table with sample miniatures out just to show people what's available. The CCGs are popular here, with space for them to play I know they'll come in. I've seen them on numerous occasions sitting on the sidewalk in front of the sports-card shop waiting for them to open. It could be that I won't really know who's a gamer until I open. Could have some RPG players in town but would never know it if there's nothing to bring them together.

This is going to be purely a game shop, no RCs, crafts, antiques and things like that. I'm open to any and all suggestions since this is somewhat a unique situation. Also, my online store is top priority. I wouldn't have to open my doors at all if doing so I'm going to be losing money stocking items that won't move.

tornspace

12-07-2004, 08:02 AM

Also, my online store is top priority. I wouldn't have to open my doors at all if doing so I'm going to be losing money stocking items that won't move.

It doesn't sound to me like you should open the doors at all. Unless you are behind the effort completely you are setting yourself up for a Titanic disaster.

Pun intended.

Hunter

12-08-2004, 04:00 PM

My plan for focus was to essentially have a coffeeshop that was friendly towards gamers and sold gaming supplies, but I'd market it as a gaming shop that happened to have good coffee and other such things.

Just to throw another idea into the mix, what about the notion of a coffeeshop/gaming shop/internet cafe?

dogsofwar

12-08-2004, 05:49 PM

That's a lot going on at 1 store- Gaming - Coffee - and the the surfers. More headaches than I would want.

Snacks are one thing, but turning it into a coffee shop too means you have more inventory and equipment to try and pay for. Reminds me of those stores that just keep adding departments to their store just to try to get anybody to walk in off the street(Books, Crafts, Hobbies, Coffee, Internet, And Games Emporium).

Keep your plan focused at least until you get started. Customers can give you a lot of good ideas, set up a suggestion box and see what they say.

***
Also as a note, I've pretty much given up the idea of selling to walk-in customers. As tornspace noted, its not my niche. Just got to stick with what I know. Maybe if I was in a differrent location it might be a different story.
***

RPGHost

12-10-2004, 05:44 PM

Has anyone thought of creating a FAQ for starting a game shop for RPG.net instead of telling people to join GAMA. Don't get me wrong GAMA is a helpful org. I don't want to pay to sign up to join a group and find the same info for free on the net latter on down the road.

That's a good idea... I'm in the process of setting up a new site to help retailers at http://www.RPGIndustry.com

If anyone would like to help put together a FAQ or series of articles to help retailers, I'm looking for some content for the site.

James
P.S. I own a large Milwaukee area store and an online store (we do the sales for RPG.NET) so I hope I can leverage those tools to provide help to startups. For example the SKU/Barcode database we're giving away for free there.

shockvalue

12-13-2004, 02:59 PM

That's a lot going on at 1 store- Gaming - Coffee - and the the surfers. More headaches than I would want.

Snacks are one thing, but turning it into a coffee shop too means you have more inventory and equipment to try and pay for. Reminds me of those stores that just keep adding departments to their store just to try to get anybody to walk in off the street(Books, Crafts, Hobbies, Coffee, Internet, And Games Emporium).

Just to play devil's advocate, coffee is much more profitable than games. I think the idea of a coffee shop masquerading as a game shop could be a very good idea.

According to a restaurant owner I was talking to, the typical Starbucks moves 700 customers a day, at an average of $4 a pop. That's $2800 a day, with very little labor and minimal food storage fuss.

Yes, Starbucks will get a lot more traffic than any independent coffee shop, but they also tend to be in much higher rent areas than independents.

Remember, it's hard to go wrong selling an addictive, legal, unregulated substance.