Looking for artists for d20 Arcanum/Atlantis RPG

[naturaltwenty]

Greetings,

I am looking for artists to do work for an official d20 Arcanum/Atlantis game. This is an approved conversion of the early to mid 80's D&D clone by S. M. Seschi/Bard Games.

The game has a definite Conan-esque feel. Bronze age to early Iron Age technology.

There are your basic races including:

Dwarfs - sterotypical short powerful rock loving
Elfs- forest dwelling
Andaman - animal/human hybrids (lions, tigers, etc)
Aesir - Norse/Viking-ethnic barbarians
Druas - dark elves
Zephyrs - winged elves
Humans - cradle of the world (European and Asiatic, Native American)

Basic monster fare - Trolls, goblins, fey, dragons, etced

Requested art should be B&W ranging from small to full page.

Payscale is 1.00 - 25.00 per piece based on size and complexity. Example -
Small ( 1" - 2" sq.) - Picture:Sword Complexity:Simple 1.00
Medium ( 2" - 4" sq) - Picture:Scene Complexity:Medium 5.00


Send samples to artwork@naturaltwenty.com.

Thanks,

Greg Volz
Natural Twenty Publishing

[Storn]

While your subject matter sounds like a blast to illustrate, your pricing... a dollar for even a small illustration..... is way too low.

From my point of view, there is very little difference in a tiny little square that you are talking about and a 1/4 pager. I and most artists, do their illos at least 1&1/2 up anyway. In fact, most publishers try to jam a 1/2 page worth of info into a 1/4 page. So my labor is not all that different and therefore I'm extremely leary of anything smaller than 1/4 page.

I'm not trying to insult you or anything. But you PROBABLY will not get professional quality artwork for those prices.

I understand that you might be a start-up and that money is tight. But you have to question your ability to bring a project to fruition if you do not have the funds to properly pay your artists, not to mention editors & writers (which are most likely to be you, so you might have some control there).

One thing you may have to offer is this; don't make it work for hire. Let the artists keep the rights to the artwork and be able to re-sell it elsewhere. If they can make money a couple of times on the same art, they might be willing to work for such low pay.

Now, there are many hungry, up & coming artists who might be a gem in the rough. I was one at one point (I like to think), someone (ICE & Hero Games) took a chance on me.

So, the best of luck to you.

[Rick Hershey]

I totally agree with Storn on this one. The project seems very interesting, and i'd love to work on something of that nature, but the payscale is something that should be looked over.

I've gotten a lot of negative response for this foloowing statement, but I'll say it again. Being a former game store employee, I can honestly say artwork sell a lot of books. A lot of people get on my case because i'm an artist saying this, but many people do judge a book by it's cover, and flipping through the pages the art is what stands out. I wish publishers would think a little more about this and pay a little more for good quality images.

and i'm spent,

Rick Hershey

p.s.- This does not include all publishers, in fact I even like a couple of those guys.

[Storn]

I had an additional bit of info. Others rate may vary... but the more you know, the better informed decisions you can make. Not just you, but publishers all over.

It takes me probably 2-4 hours to do a 1/4 page illo depending on detail, background, number of figures etc. That's 2-4 hours to do a full black & white (either inked or grayscale) drawing.

Often, you don't get the chance to sit and finish out 1 illo. Usually the process is do a sketch (1-2), scan it, send it to the the publisher for approval, make changes (if any) and because this generally takes a few days, you finish the actual drawing several days after doing the pencils.

I went to school for a total of 5 & 1/2 years to be a professional artist... no different than many other professions. I really try to get a rate that is no less than $15.00/ hour. Of course some illos take longer than others, Of course, I will go the extra mile on especially difficult or detailed illos... but $15.00 is barely a living wage... not to mention that freelancers don't often bill out 40 hours of straight work.

Another suggestion: Since you are paying rock bottom prices, offer to pay for any and all shipping costs. You may be surprised to know that many companies in this field do not reimburse the artists for that... and that is a pretty common business practice everywhere else in the professional arenas.

This will garner you big kudos from your art staff... believe me.

[NPC]

Hey Greg:
Thanks for posting your call for submissions here, but sadly, I have to agree with Storn and Rick and likely any other artist who will reply to this posting. A publisher needs to have a good understanding of what's important to their product from the start. Brilliant game mechanics and Pulitzer prize worthy writing will all be diminished and overshadowed by "1.00 artwork". Perhaps you should evaluate the need for art at this time and try without or hope that you'll get that newbie starting out who wants to pad his portfolio. Frankly, I agree with Storn and strive for his same 15.00 an hour rate, but in the end, I'm damn lucky to see it and anyway I firmly believe a talented and worthy newbie should be getting the same rate. I also strongly agree with Storn that any and all shipping and/ or postage should be handled by the publisher and I would even take it one step further and move that "proofing" be compensated separately (enough ranting). Anyway, the project does sound interesting but quite frankly, I couldn't afford it.

Eric
www.ericlofgren.com

[naturaltwenty]

Truth be told I myself thought that the pricing sounded low and I had no idea how long art would take to do.

Anyway let me rephrase the Request for Submission.


Request for Bid

Overview
This Request for Submission describes portions of a d20 product under development for Natural Twenty Publishing. The scope of work covers cartography and illustration of the following product, d20 Arcanum - Age of Atlantis Primer (working title).

Scope of Work
The person(s) will be responsible for the creation of proof illustrations and cartography to include the following:

8 - B&W 1/4 page illustrations
2 - B&W 1/2 page illustration
1 - B&W Full page map

Illustrations may be hand drawn or electronically created.

Pay
An hourly rate of $7.50 for draft drawings. Drafts that are selected to be completed will be compensated at an hourly rate of 12.50.

Ownership
All drafts, proofs and final illustration will remain the property of the artist.

Shipping
All shipping and handling costs associated with transportation of illustrations will be paid for by the publishing company via USPS.

Product Background
The original Arcanum RPG was produced by Bard Games/S. M. Sechi in the early to mid-1980's. It and it's companion products, "The Compleat" series took place in a mythical fantasy world.

S. M. Sechi has approved to the creation of an updated d20 product by Natural Twenty Publishing.

A general chat session will be held at www.naturaltwenty.com on Thursday February 7th at 1:00 pm CST via the internet. The content of the chat will be posted on the website after that date.

Email questions or comments to artwork@naturaltwenty.com.

[Storn]

That is a very serious offer now. But I'm not sure how you can verify how long an artist spends on a piece. She/He is at home.

A 1/4 page sketch that takes an hour and half costs $11.25, with the finish most likely 2 hours, is $25.00 for a total of $36.25. Stuff done faster might not be worth it. And my time budget isn't too out there. I've spent 1/2 a day on one 1/4 pager at times. Of course, sometimes a simple figure can be done very quickly. But I dont' see art directors asking for simple too often... especially when they know that I can do mulitple figures interacting in a space.

at the time suggested above, and I admit it is ballpark, your per page rate would be: $145.00 I would accept a job at $145 per page of artwork. But doing it by the hour does put pressure on the artist to do it fast, do it right the first time. And art doesn't really work that way.

counter suggestion:

size sketch finish
1/4 $10 $20
1/2 $20 $40
full page $40 $80

or what all of my clients do is to break it down by page. The above mentioned prices would $120.00 per page of artwork, whether or not it is 2 .5 page illos or 1 .25 page and a .75 page illo or any combo. That makes the bookeeping easier.

At $120.00 a page of illlos, that is very competitive pricing against other publishers. You should get some good, new, young artists to bite. And given that the artist retains rights (we are selling first Publishing Rights), I would do it for $120.00 a page.

Thank you so very much to listening to us artists (and putting up with my blathering especially). I hope this helps you get great artwork and make a great product.

[unheilig]

hmmm.

see, I work fast.

I work faster the more I'm paid.

EVEN faster if I'm paid up front.

The paid per hour thing is just counter-intuitive for me.

Speed is my commodity.

unheilig.

[naturaltwenty]

Speed is always a commodity.

Give someone a task and do not place a deadline on it and it never gets done.

Dangle the carrot, a.k.a money and place a date/time along with it to get results.

The per hour rate has been kaiboshed (sp?) and replaced with a per page amount.

Anyway, you live in/near Milwaukee. I might tag you for a local artist (Menomonee Falls here), if you are available and the project interests you.

Later,

Greg Volz

Originally posted by unheilig
hmmm.

see, I work fast.

I work faster the more I'm paid.

EVEN faster if I'm paid up front.

The paid per hour thing is just counter-intuitive for me.

Speed is my commodity.

unheilig.

[jasonmccuiston]

I am definitely interested in working on the project described, and I feel that my style would be perfect for the subject matter.

Unfortunately, I am currently unable to send online submissions. Is there a postal address where I could send you hard copy samples?

If so, please contact me at jj.mccuiston@comcast.net.

Thanks.

[Wolvorine]

You da man, Storn -- drive up those rates. :)

I'd be very interested in hearing more about this project, it does sound terribly interesting. Naturaltwenty, do you need an email or does just posting here constitute contacting you about the project?

[Eric E.]

Okay, I'm not an artist but I'd just like to say, Sweet and Good Job on the d20 Arcanum deal. The original 3 books are sitting on my bookshelf, alongside a copy of each Talislanta book published. I look forward to seeing this thing in stores.

[JELEINEN]

Same here. The original Arcanum had some cool stuff in it, and I'll be the first one in line to get if for updated versions of all the funky alchemy and thaumaturgy creation rules.