[HeroQuest] My 4-Year-Old's First RPG - Actual Play (rather long)

[Ian Absentia]

My 4-year-old son has been watching me read my copy of HeroQuest with considerable interest lately. He's also been eager to tell impromptu fantasy stories for the last year, and has been catching onto board games recently (checkers, Candyland, chess), so when I told him the book I was reading was a game he wanted to play. This weekend we got down to the business of doing so.

The posts that follow break things down into character creation and then actual play. Later posts will update the campaign as it develops. I welcome any comments from anyone familiar with or interested in either HeroQuest or playing RPGs with very young children, both of which present some unique challenges. I'll also be asking for occasional help in the process, to which any and all replies will be appreciated.

!i!

[Ian Absentia]

Character creation presented the first of the challenges posed by both the HeroQuest system and playing with a 4-year-old. First, his degree of literacy, while admirable, isn't up to the challenge of learning the rules himself, and writing a 100-word narrative was right out of the question. So what I did was a combination of the "List Method" and "As You Go" character creation rules. What I did was ask a few pivotal, leading questions -- keywords pretty much did the job -- letting my son improvise from there, understanding that we'd probably not come anywhere spending all of the character creation points. Any unused character points could be spent later as he got the hang of the game and developed new ideas about what he wanted his character to be like.

Very roughly, here's how his character took form. In spite of some initial confusion, I was pleasantly surprised to see how creative he got.

Who do you want to be? A boy? A grown man?
A boy, not a man. His name is Mevi, and he's a boy who fights!

How old is Mevi? A little boy like you, or a teenager? Or something in between, like 10 or 12?
An older boy, not a teenager. He's 12 years old. And he has gold cuffs, and gold boots!

Gold cuffs, huh? You mean like bracers? Big bands around the wrists?
Yeah, and he can use them when he fights. He punches and kicks.

Okay. Where does Mevi live? Is he from the mountains, or the forest, or the seaside, or the plains?
He's from the forest, near the mountains. It's a warm forest.

Warm forest? You mean like a jungle?
Yeah, but not a jungle. Like a jungle, but a forest. And his family got killed by a jaguar.

Er, warm forest...like a jungle, but not. Near mountains. I guess that kind of sounds like Teshnos. Looking at a map here, I'd guess something like Wokistan, right on the border of Fethlon here.
No, not there. On an island. Right here.

Uh, that'd kind of complicate things a little for what I have in mind. Can we just say he's from here in Wokistan? And, hmm, I don't think I've ever heard of jaguars in Glorantha before...not sure where they'd be from. How about a tiger killed Mevi's family?
No. I want a jaguar. And it didn't kill all of his family, just his mom and sister. His dad's still alive.

Oh. Hmm. Okay. What is it...page 181? "It's Their Glorantha Too", so there are now jaguars in Wokistan/Fethlon. Oh, hey! Is it just important that it be a spotted cat? How about a Clouded Leopard?
Yeah! A Clouded Leopard killed his mom and his sister, but not his dad.

So what does Mevi do? What's he good at?
He hunts, but he doesn't like killing animals. His dad does all the hard work.

Okay, so it sounds like his dad is a traditional hunter, so maybe Mevi is a trapper. You know, using snares and pits and cages to catch animals.
Yeah, he's a trapping hunter.

So what weapons does he know how to use?
He doesn't use any weapons. He just punches and kicks to protect himself?

Well, he'd probably have something to use in a pinch. No sword? No kinfe? No bow and arrow? Hey, how about a sling -- like in the David and Goliath story?
Yeah, a sling and he can throw really sharp rocks with it. And he's really, really good with it.

Okay, that just about does it, really. Anything else you can think of?
Yeah. He has special powers that help him fight.

Special powers? Have anything in mind
Um...he can fly!

Fly? Uh...why don't we just stop here for now?

So, using the suggestion from page 177, I decided to start his keywords off at 13 and use just 15 extra points instead of 20. Relationships I let start at 17. His character, before beginning play, looked like this:

Mevi
Homeland: Teshnos (Wokistan) 13
Occupation: Hunter (Trapper) 13
- Sling 1W (in lieu of Archery, and he said he was "really, really good")
- Trapping 13
Common Magic: Book of Well Being 13 (he didn't ask for this, but it's very common in Teshnos -- I'll explain it to him later)
- Spell of Health 13
Scrappy Fighter 13
Gold Cuffs and Boots 17 (I put a couple of extra points here because I figured this is where I might put his undefined "special power")
Hate Leopards 17
Miss Family 17

All told, 12 of 15 character points have been spent, for a 12-year-old Mevi fairly kicks ass with a sling, and he has some very interesting background to play up without being too deep and complicated I may give him more character points if it seems he needs them to introduce new ideas as they occur without trying to explain them as in-character development with Hero Point expenditures.

Next up, the first session of play.

!i!

[Ian Absentia]

Before I even decided to sit down with my son to create a character, I figured that our first session of play would be a variation on the one that I used to introduce my nephew to roleplaying games 8 years ago -- Heortling cowherd on the way to market saves the nobleman's daughter from a troll...with a twist. However, my son threw me a curve in describing a boy from Teshnos, so I changed things around a fair sight.

As the game began, Mevi's father entrusted his son with the task of taking two bundles of furs -- half a season's worth of labor -- to market to trade for gold. While walking along the forest path with the bundles of furs yoked over his soulders, Mevi spotted a large, upright lizard (later revealed to be a beaked dragonewt) coming toward him along the path with a large sack slung over its shoulder. Something in the sack seemed to be writhing about, and Mevi was almost sure he heard the muffled voice of someone crying from inside.

This juncture proved the first big hurdle for a 4-year-old. Though playing a much more mature boy, my son's initial reactions were along the lines of "I go back to get my dad." So I coaxed and coached him along by letting him know that Mevi was too far from home to get his dad in time, and that Mevi was probably old enough to do something on his own. I emphasised that as the dragonewt drew closer (though it apparently had not noticed him yet), it became clearer that there seemed to be a person inside the sack trying hard to get out. At these suggestions, Mevi sprang into action.

Before the game started, I realised that the bookkeeping necessary to perform extended contests was simply beyond my son's grasp, so all contests would be simple contests -- no AP bidding. I was a lttle concerned that combat might seem a little flat with this method alone, but then I realised that the boy had nothing to compare it against.

Mevi ducked off the forest path, dropped the yoke of furs, and readied his sling with the sharpest stone he had. For some reason my son declared that he was aiming for the dragonewt's belly and Mevi cut loose from ambush. Mevi rolled a Success as I scrambled through the book trying to figure out what resistance a beaked dragonewt should have in combat (damns! no stats for dragonewts!), eventually settling on not-too-tough resistance of 17. The dragonewt rolled a Success as well, though higher than Mevi's, granting the boy a Minor Victory with the bump from his Sling mastery, striking the lizard square in the belly and winding it soundly. The dragonewt dropped the sack and doubled over to the ground.

Round two faced the same problems of indecision for my son. At this point, I think he was either too tense to decide or concerned for the dragonewt's welfare. I pushed (maybe just a bit too hard) to counter his declarations that Mevi runs away at this point, reminding him that someone was in the sack who seemed to need help. I also used this moment of indecision to inform him that the dragonewt was staggering to its feet and scanning around to determine who had attacked it. My son then firmly declared that Mevi was really good at hiding and promptly did so.

I referred to Mevi's Occupation Keyword abilities, noting that Hide would be at 13, which didn't strike me as "really good". Spending the remaining 3 character points would raise him to only 16, so I gave him a freebie and wrote down Hide 17. No more character points for developing his background, which left me a little dissatisfied. In any case, the dragonewt rolled a Failure to Spot Assailant, while Mevi rolled a sound Success, a Minor Victory. In interpreted this mean that the dragonewt had figured the general direction from which the stone had come, but didn't know precisely where Mevi was hiding. With the giant lizard shambling ever closer in his direction, drawing its fearsome klanth from its scabbard (the description of the klanth did wonders for character motivation), Mevi loaded up another sharp rock and aimed for the dragonewt's head. Again both contestants rolled successes, and again Mevi rolled lower, granting him another Minor Victory with the mastery bump. The dragonewt reeled backwards at the sharp blow to its forehead from the whizzing rock, falling down thoroughly dazed.

Again, the state of tension and concern for the dragonewt bogged the action down a fair bit and I had trouble getting my son to make a decision. Eventually (again with perhaps too much encouragement from me), Mevi skirted around the fallen dragonewt to the unattended sack, releasing a young girl from inside. The girl had long, wavy blonde hair, dark brown eyes, and pale skin, like no one Mevi had ever seen before (she was, in fact, a Yelmalion from Sun County in Prax, taken as a slave by beast riders and literally sold down the river). Here again there was trouble getting my son to make a decision as to what to do, with the dragonewt recovering and the girl still in bonds. He eventually resorted to asking me to decide for him, but I encouraged him to choose the most simply heroic thing to do. At that suggestion, Mevi led the girl to the nearby trading village and (hopefully) safety, leaving the bundles of furs behind with the dragonewt.

The girl's arrival in the village caused quite a stir with her strange looks and Mevi's state of distress. Not long after, though, the dragonewt arrived with the furs in tow, demanding to see the person who attacked him. This was a fun example of an introduction to the strangeness of Glorantha, as my son had assumed the giant lizard was just a monster with no sort of legal rights. The village headman was summoned and an impromptu hearing was held. Both Mevi's story and the dragonewts were recounted, the dragonewt demanding his fairly-purchased slave to be returned and compensation for his wounds. Here my son rose to the occasion, refusing to turn the girl back over. The rest of the humans in the village were sympathetic to Mevi's reasoning, feeling more akin to the foreign human than to the dragonewt, so the headman informed Mevi that he would have to provide fair price for the slave and compensation for the wounds he had caused. The dragonewt protested slightly, but allowed that the bundles of exotic furs would suffice, and the bargain was struck. The dragonewt left with Mevi's father's furs, and Mevi left for home with the girl.

Upon returning home, Mevi's father flew into a rage, declaring that without the proceeds from half a season's hunting and trapping, he wouldn't be able to support his own family, much less the extra mouth he brought home. Mevi was cast out of the home with the girl and told not to return until he could come up with the fortune he lost and could earn his own keep. I was surprised that my son took this part as well as he did, though he was visibly shaken -- perhaps it was a little too intense, but it played out well.

That night by firelight in the camp that Mevi made for himself and the strange girl, she was able to communicate her name to him -- Ruihella -- and draw a picture of the Sun Dome temple from where she lived. Mevi recognised the temple that she drew as resembling the Kralorelan-influenced Yelm temple he had once seen on a far-ranging hunting trip he had taken in the mountains bordering on Matkondu in northern Teshnos. My son had already decided that he wanted to return the girl to her parents, so he declared that Mevi would lead the girl to the Yelm temple in the mountains where the priests there could hopefully help him find out where she was from and how to get her there.

Thus ended the first session.

!i!

[cappadocius]

This is very interesting. I look forward to hearing more.

I'm glad to see you realize you might have been a little too pushy in the sorts of decisions your son should make. Railroading can be frustrating even when you're four! :)

But like I said, interesting, and cool.

[Jorjowsky]

You know, I usually don't care much about 'actual play' threads, and the same can be said about HeroQuest or Glorantha (of which I know next to nothing). But I really liked this. Well done! (both the game, and the report. And the fact that you just created a new roleplayer, of course, which is always good :))

[deadboydex]

Best dad ever.

[Ian Absentia]

Originally posted by cappadocius
I'm glad to see you realize you might have been a little too pushy in the sorts of decisions your son should make. Railroading can be frustrating even when you're four! :)Actually, the frustrating part was that he sometimes wanted me to make decisions for him. Mostly, though, I think this was just part of the game that he was getting used to -- rolling dice was fun and made perfect sense to him, but responding to hypothetical conflicts made him think that I already had an answer for him. He got considerably better as the story progressed.

Another learning lesson for me was to pay attention to augments and modifiers. There were a couple of instances where, in retrospect, I realise my son's character could have benefitted from augmentation, like adding +1 for his Skirmish Combat 13. Then again, the dragonewt would similarly benefit from other abilities and such, too. Still, something to bear in mind.

I really wish I could introduce AP bidding in order to get the hang of extended contests in actual play, but as I mentioned above, it's out of the question until the boy develops more advanced mathematical skills and a sense of abstract tactics.

Say, looking toward the future, can any Gloranthaphiles reading this suggest some likely and above all interesting encounters that an overland caravan might encounter on an expedition across the Genert Wastes between Teshnos and Prax? I'm well braced for a number of Beast Rider encounters, and a spate of random chaos mutations, but is there anything else you can think of? Should I opt for a sea-going voyage along the coast from Gio to Corflu, then up the Zola Fel? Let me know what you think -- your opinions matter!

!i!

[Ian Absentia]

Originally posted by deadboydex
Best dad ever. Thank you. :) I've actually been anticipating this moment for years now. In another couple of years I look forward to introducing my now-2-year-old daughter to the game.

I try to follow the example set by one of my best friend's father. He's a professor of history, and back in 1979 he ran a Basic D&D game that started with the pre-teen players as weaponless, armorless European crusaders escaping from a dungeon in Medieval Jerusalem. Possibly the coolest intro to roleplaying that I've ever heard of.

!i!

[Cultist of Sooty]

Ian, this sounds so cool...

Originally posted by Ian Young
Should I opt for a sea-going voyage along the coast from Gio to Corflu, then up the Zola Fel? Let me know what you think -- your opinions matter!
I say go for the boats! Every other boy of his age I've ever known would dig a swashbuckling sea voyage. There have to be scurvy pirates with eyepatches and stuff. Trust me, little kids love pirates... Make it wolf pirates, with wolves barking at Mevi from the prows of their ships.
Other than that, an encounter with a great big sea monster should feature. Maybe have the boat swallowed up so you can do the whole Jonah/Pinocchio/Finding Nemo thing. Only with a girl for him to rescue, too.

How about this? The ship is attacked by wolf pirates and Mevi's ship is sunk/Mevi has to walk the plank (though this might be a bit scary for the lad). Mevi and Ruihella are swallowed up by an enormous sea monster and have to spend time inside its stomach before finding a way out. Perhaps they find another interesting NPC inside the monster, who could be mentor later. A talking fish who's a worshipper of Zola Fel could make an interesting hook for later as they travel up from Corflu, but almost anyone could turn up, from an Orlanthi hero who fell of the giant's cradle, to an uz, Lunar or a Seshnegi knight. Let your imagination run wild!

When Mevi and Ruihella escape from the belly of the beastie, let them be washed up in the marshes at Corflu. The littl'un should love the descriptions of splashing around in gloopy mud. And then you can have him meet newtlings. :)

[Thierry]

How long did the session last ? Did your son manage to stay focused on the game ?

[Sammael99]

Originally posted by Thierry Michel
How long did the session last ? Did your son manage to stay focused on the game ?

You stole my question !

I have 3 year old boy, but I woldn't dream of introducing him to roleplaying for a while yet. Still, this is very interesting. Also let us know if he has nightmares of dragonnewts and other critters !

In a nearly totally unrelated thread, we once played an "early" campaign for Rêve where all the characters (but not the players) were pre-teens. It went smimmingly, with a nice amusing feel, even though there were bad bullies and all, until one of the PCs used his sling on a bully and killed him outright. Man, that was a heavy session...

[Cultist of Sooty]

Originally posted by Sammael99
I have 3 year old boy, but I woldn't dream of introducing him to roleplaying for a while yet. Still, this is very interesting. Also let us know if he has nightmares of dragonnewts and other critters !
Small children can be surprisingly nightmare-proof as far as monsters, ghosts, etc. are concerned. If scary things are presented in a fun sort of way, they can stop being "scary". Hopefully, that would be at work here.

The youngest child I've played RPG type stuff with was my friends' daugher, Katy, who was 7 at the time. Funnily enough, we played the other Heroquest, the boardgame. She took to it very well, though there were a couple of "hitches":

1. She had a lot of trouble deciding where to go next, so there had to be some hand-holding from mum and dad (who was playing the monsters) while she decided which door to go through.

2. Then she discovered that you might find treasure by searching the square you're in. From that point, it got a bit tough to persuade her to move from the spot: "But there's treasure here!"

3. We had to be careful not to let her adventurers die. There were tears if this looked likely. This should be less of an issue in the HeroQuest RPG, though.

4.There was a lovely moment at the end of the game - her mission had been to recover chests for the Emperor's agent or something. She was to be paid 200GP per chest if she took them back, and could get another mission. Or, as she asked about it, she could sell the treasure in it for 250GP but not get the extra mission. She went for the cold, hard cash. When she's a couple of years older, she'll be a D&D natural. I might try introducing her to the "new" HeroQuest - if I tell her she can be a princess, she'll be very happy. :)

[Thierry]

Originally posted by Captain Spaulding
Small children can be surprisingly nightmare-proof as far as monsters, ghosts, etc. are concerned. If scary things are presented in a fun sort of way, they can stop being "scary". Hopefully, that would be at work here.


I wouldn't introduce Broos just right now, though.
:)

[Cultist of Sooty]

Originally posted by Thierry Michel
I wouldn't introduce Broos just right now, though.
:)
Probably not, no. Skeletons and zombies should be okay, if my friends' 3-year-old boy Joe's reaction to Pirates of the Caribbean ("It's not scary, it's BRILLIANT!") is anything to go by.

Hmm. Using this extensive sample size of one, I suspect the ideal RPG for small boys will feature:

1. Skeletons.
2. Thunderbirds.
3. Pirates.
4. Dinosaurs.
5. Robots*

The most charming thing with Thunderbirds is that it's him and his sister's favourite "let's pretend" game. They'll spend all afternoon rescuing each other from things, usually fires or quicksand. Maybe I should give it a year or two and run an International Rescue scenario for the two of them.

* The "robot" that Joe is very fond of, to the point of telling it that he loves it, is actually an inflatable dalek. We haven't convinced him that it wants to EXTERMINATE! him yet.

[alexandria2000]

This has to be the cutest thing I've ever read. I hope you two have fun with it for a long time!

I can't imagine GMing for a child that young, but on second glance it makes sense - it's make believe with just a few more rules.

How long was the session, Ian? I'd be worrying about working in breaks to keep his attention on the game.

Suggestion: ...is that snow leopard still out there? Have it make a return sometime in the game! Say that it's caused so much trouble that the local villages have put out a bounty for its death.

He doesn't want to kill it (he said he didn't like to kill things) so put in a zoo or something that offers him a LOT of money to capture it for them alive.

[SJE]

A Dalek?

Cripes- those scared the living bejesus out of me back when they were on the telly in the 80's. I had to hide behind the sofa whenever they appeared!

Steve

[Cultist of Sooty]

Originally posted by SJE
Cripes- those scared the living bejesus out of me back when they were on the telly in the 80's. I had to hide behind the sofa whenever they appeared!
Joe's response went more along the lines of showing it all his Christmas presents, pushing it into the front room so it could see the Christmas tree, telling it he loved it and giving it a goodnight kiss at bedtime while even his dad didn't get one. Fear wasn't much in evidence.

When the daleks invade, I suspect Joe will be one of the first to serve the alien masters. The only bright spot is that he didn't take long to discover it's fundamental weakness: "Mummy! The robot won't go up the stairs!"

[Sammael99]

Originally posted by Captain Spaulding


1. Skeletons.
2. Thunderbirds.
3. Pirates.
4. Dinosaurs.
5. Robots*



That is not altogether in line with my own study of the subject (named Corentin), which points out the following elements :

1. Dragons
2. Buzz & Woody
3. Knights with big swords that go pang !
4. Cops on motorbikes
5. Dinosaurs

;)

[simondale]

Great posts Ian. I like how your son was concerned for the dragonewt after Mevi hit it with the sling.

Very cool.

Originally posted by Ian Young

Say, looking toward the future, can any Gloranthaphiles reading this suggest some likely and above all interesting encounters that an overland caravan might encounter on an expedition across the Genert Wastes between Teshnos and Prax?

Nomads trading animal hides with the oases-folk.
Desert trackers looking for pieces of their dead god Genert.
A mostali archeological party unearthing the bones of a fallen giant.
A down on it's luck branch of the Thunderbreath Gobbleguts restaurant. "the finest in troll cuisine".
Ducks carrying their outrigger canoe across the wastes ("I told you we should have turned left at Teshnos, but no...").

Best,
Simon

[Tim Gray]

Originally posted by Captain Spaulding
Joe's response went more along the lines of showing it all his Christmas presents, pushing it into the front room so it could see the Christmas tree, telling it he loved it and giving it a goodnight kiss at bedtime while even his dad didn't get one. Fear wasn't much in evidence.
Makes you wonder how animism ever lost the top spot.

Sounds like some really smart kids here too. Very encouraging.

[Cultist of Sooty]

Originally posted by Sammael99
That is not altogether in line with my own study of the subject (named Corentin), which points out the following elements :

1. Dragons
2. Buzz & Woody
3. Knights with big swords that go pang !
4. Cops on motorbikes
5. Dinosaurs
Intriguing results. I think we can conclude that dinosaurs, as the only thing in both lists, are generally regarded as cool by youngsters. We must therefore add them to all roleplaying scenarios which are intended to appeal to small boys.

I'd need to do more research with Joe's sister Katy, but my early thoughts are that she would respond to:

1. Gold.
2. Being a princess.
3. Magic spells or tricks.
4. Dressing up.
5. Thunderbirds.

[Brand_Robins]

Best. Actual. Play. Post. Evar.

As for what kids like and respond to -- there is something I've found in RP with elementary school age kids (3ish years older than your son) that's fairly common, they often like to fight but they don't like to have fights that cause lasting injury to anyone who isn't obviously EVIL. They'll bonk the snot out of each other and random NPCs, but if anything really bad happens because of it they react very intesenly to try and fix the harm they caused.

It sounds like your son might have a bit of this as well -- as he bonked the Dragonewt a good one, but didn't want to kill it and got concerned about its welfare.

So, rather than worrying about that and trying to find ways around it, I'd encourage it. Use community interaction and support rules (like you did in the village) with more types of things. His fighting boy may end up often getting in fights, only to become friends with the people he fought, or end up working to help people he accidently hurt. Having someone in Glorantha who is more concerned about doing the best by other people would be a very nice thing....

[Voriof]

What. Brand. Said.

Truly, Ian, you rocketh! If you are on the HeroQuest list, please post that story there. Or, if not, might I post it?

Voriof

[Cultist of Sooty]

Originally posted by Brand_Robins
As for what kids like and respond to -- there is something I've found in RP with elementary school age kids (3ish years older than your son) that's fairly common, they often like to fight but they don't like to have fights that cause lasting injury to anyone who isn't obviously EVIL. They'll bonk the snot out of each other and random NPCs, but if anything really bad happens because of it they react very intensely to try and fix the harm they caused.
That's interesting. It's noticeable that Katy (7 at the time) had no problem whatsoever slaughtering lots of orcs, goblins and the like in the boardgame Heroquest. I suspect that may be because she's just seeing them as playing pieces, not as "characters". It would be interesting to see how she reacted in a roleplaying rather than board gaming context.

I've noticed with the kids that they're perfectly happy to inflict all sorts of imaginary violence upon each other, including "you're dead". But, of course, they just jump up and carry on afterwards. Perhaps the trick is to not have death, as such, happen to anything. Even monsters. They just get knocked down, or trapped or something like that, making it obvious that they're not dead. That might sit better with such a young kiddie. And it lets you bring back favourite "baddies" again for another go, too. :)

Originally posted by Brand_Robins
His fighting boy may end up often getting in fights, only to become friends with the people he fought, or end up working to help people he accidently hurt. Having someone in Glorantha who is more concerned about doing the best by other people would be a very nice thing....
Or, as Brand suggest, as friends instead of "baddies".

Originally posted by Brand_Robins
Having someone in Glorantha who is more concerned about doing the best by other people would be a very nice thing....
I'm doing my best in my own small way by playing a healer. :)

[Robert A. Rodger]

Originally posted by Tim Gray
Makes you wonder how animism ever lost the top spot.

Anyone who thinks animism is dead has never watched someone use a computer.

On topic however, this was very interesting, I look forward to hearing more. I'd been thinking of introducing my nephew to D&D for ages, and then it occured to me that at 11 he's four years <b>older</b> than I was when my brother introduced me to the game. Since he isn't interested in fantasy I picked up Adventure and hope to play it with him this summer. I hope I gauge his sophistication well, though, I suspect I still think of him as a five year old...

[Malenfant]

Very cool. I like the 'dragonnewt isn't a monster' twist too :)

[John Morrow]

Originally posted by Ian Young
Actually, the frustrating part was that he sometimes wanted me to make decisions for him.

You need to remember that he's a child and that's what children do. When they get in over their heads, they turn to their parents for help. If you pushed him out the door, and locked it on him, would you expect him to deal with the situation and take care of himself or start banging on the door begging to be let back in? It sounds like you took a reasonable middle-ground, giving him more information to help push him in the right direction but remember that he lacks the experience of making complex decisions or seeing others make them which helps an adult quickly categorize problems and make judgements. He probably just doesn't know what to do and is looking to you for guidance.

On my first trip to Tokyo (in preparation for a job transfer), I was left alone unsupervised because a consultant wanted to see how well I'd cope (some people can't). As a thirtysomething, I got to re-experience what it is like to be illiterate, to be unable to communicate effectively (I speak just a little Japanese), to fear getting lost (the streets in Tokyo are unnamed and are not arranged in a neat grid), etc. The urge, even as an adult, to find someone who knew what they were doing to help me was pretty large and I did, in fact, cheat a bit by calling an expat that lived nearby that was related to a person my wife worked with. Once I realized that I could deal with the situation, most of the anxiety went away (and ultimately disappeared entirely -- in many ways, I experienced more culture shock returning to the United States after a bit more than a year in Tokyo).

Just bear in mind that forcing people to deal with situations they don't feel ready to deal with can create quite a bit of anxiety, even for adults.

[Michelle Lyons]

To be honest, I'd have the character's dad find and make up with him. He's just four. He still sees the character's dad as you. Regardless of what his character is ready for, he's not ready to be "on his own," even in fantasy. Being kicked out for doing what you suggested he do is a bit of punishment, and not really the lesson you want him to take away from this. Have his father come find him, apologize, and then ask if he wants to take the little girl home. It'll probably make him a lot happier in the game as a whole.

[Conall Kavanagh]

Thanks for sharing, Ian.

You brought up a good point about reducing or getting rid of bookkeeping for kids. I've been role-playing on-and-off with my 3 girls for four years now. At first, our games were completely narrative, with no dice or number stats at all. In the past year, we've collectively developed a simple gaming system which only includes HP (for better or worse, they learned the "hit point" concept from Pokemon), damage capacity, and three attributes (Attack, Move, and Special -- anything else). The scale of the mechanics is simple -- no more than 4-6 HP typically, damage typically does 1 point, and task resolution involves opposed rolls of #d6s. I've found that this is enough to provide some structure to the game, without getting in the way of their imagination and creativity. Their present ages are 10 and twin 7s.

Here are my experiences with role-playing with my daughters.

* The seeds started when my oldest was 4 or 5. We'd always play together (yes, I had to bite the bullet and play Barbies many times). Half-intentionally, half-naturally, more "boyish" toys would creep into our playtime -- plastic cowboys, knights, dinosaurs, etc. We bought a miniature Cinderella's castle at one point. It was "girly" and pretty enough to appeal to her, and it was the perfect size for my old lead D&D miniatures. I had the foresight (or maybe I like to think that I did) back in college to buy Amazon and princess miniatures in the event of having daughters in the future. So, we started using the fighters, wizards, princesses, etc. for battles involved the castle. This lead to alot of fun. She always held the most powerful piece -- a plastic ballerina from a birthday cake. This ballerina was a kung-fu princess that could turn on "extra power" and kill my whole army.

* When my oldest was 6, the Pokemon craze was at its peak (1999-2000). Her cousin was into the actual card game. She liked the cards, but did not care at all about the rules, numbers, etc. We'd play a modified game where pennies where hit points, and our groups of Pokemoncards would fight. One thing that Pokemon made me realize was the utility of putting the game rules on the card itself, so that the card would simultaneously serve as the rulesheet, character sheet, and playing piece. This is what we're doing in our present game.

* At this time, we started playing "Once Upon a Time" with her younger sisters (age 3 at this time). This is a GREAT game for kids. Although I point out that I've never played it by the stated rules, where players can interrupt each other. Interruptions can really piss off and derail the kids. Instead we used the cards to build narrative stories.

* Around this time (ages 6 and 3), my first attempt at playing an actual RPG was breaking open a hippy-dippy herbal Tarot deck and laying out a series of challenges or adventures for characters they created. Character concept was very stripped down, basically being "How smart are you?", "How strong are you?", "What special thing do you have?"

* From this narrative game, we've developed our present simple RPG which uses actual number stats and dice rolls. They no longer have an aversion to numbers and adding. Of course, their math skills are much better now (ages 10 and 7). Also, exposure to games like the Age of Kings and Gameboy Pokemon stuff has helped them visualize and describe characters in terms of numbers.

* Our last gaming session was about one month ago. They have created an all-star army of superheroes (eg. Powerpuff Girls, X-Men, Pokemon, etc.) that solve mysteries, fight crime, go on quests, etc. We left off with them questing for a magical jewel. The oldest was at a sleep-over, so the twin 7-year-olds bravely soldiered on. They came upon an island of a medusa. On the beach, there were three statues of Greek warriors, petrified with terrified looks on their faces. This scared the crap out of one of the twins, so they stopped the game for the oldest to continue play.


One idea that I've seen on this thread is what appeals to boys and girls. Something I've come to realize about girls is that they tend to develop elaborate social webs in their play. It doesn't seem to be enough to have "a bunch of guys that kill stuff." My experience with girls is that they put alot of value in fleshing out who is who's sister, who's the oldest, who's the "baby", who needs to be taken take of, etc.

Also, I'm finding that girls also like to play with stuff that is, for lack of a better word, "pretty." I'm not necessarily talking about pink ribbons and fluffy pillows. Things that "look nice" or elegant or vibrant, like the Powerpuff Girls or XJ-9 (Jenny in "Teenage Robot"). There's also the cuteness factor, too, like Pikachu and Squirtle.

Perhaps most important, girls, like boys, want to play with things that are fun and can kick ass. The Powerpuff Girls are cute and can kick serious ass. Girls want to feel empowered and in control just as boys do.

-- Conall

[Harrek]

Cool story, Ian. Keep us posted if you continue.

You all might find this recent Forge <a href="http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=10001">thread</a> interesting. Same sort of thing, although he created a simple Prince Valiant-ish system for his kids.

[voidstate]

Very nice thread. I thought it was especially sweet how he didn't want his dad to be killed by the jaguar/tiger/leopard. Perhaps a reunion with his estranged father shouldn't be too far off. Lots of kids books have children going off on adventures, but they nearly always go back to their parent* afterwards. Perhaps he hears that the leopard has been seen near his fathers hut, rushes back and all is forgiven?

Anyway, let us know what happens. SOme of my favourite childhood memories is sitting making up stories with my dad. I feel all nostalgic now. :)

voidstate


* Funny how kids in books so often only have one.

[Brand_Robins]

Originally posted by Captain Spaulding
That's interesting. It's noticeable that Katy (7 at the time) had no problem whatsoever slaughtering lots of orcs, goblins and the like in the boardgame Heroquest.

As you say, it's a boardgame. However it can work that way even in an RPG. The difference, that I've seen at any rate, comes when the kids are confronted with realistic consequences to characters that aren't designated as BAD. Killing an orc is something I've rarely seen kids have a problem with, killing a charizard, otoh, causes them to have convulsions.

I've noticed with the kids that they're perfectly happy to inflict all sorts of imaginary violence upon each other, including "you're dead". But, of course, they just jump up and carry on afterwards.

That's the trick right there -- dead and jump up with no real consequence is just fine in most kids heads. Have someone get really hurt or really dead and it makes a large bit of difference. "Bang you're dead, go regenerate a new life by touching the tree" is different than "he lies on the ground, not moving -- he isn't ever going to move again."

Of course, children are also responsive to adult tone and body language to an almost preturnatural degree. If we suggest to them that the killing is good and accepted they'll do it more. If tone and body language suggest they may have done something bad they get confused, and often regretful, quite quickly.

Perhaps the trick is to not have death, as such, happen to anything. Even monsters.

Depends what you're doing. For a Pokemon style game it's all good to do it that way. However, I'll also note that we often underestimate children and their ability to deal with serious stories. You can play a game in which things, even good people, die with kids -- you just have to be responsive to how they deal with it.

[Thierry]

Originally posted by Brand_Robins
The difference, that I've seen at any rate, comes when the kids are confronted with realistic consequences to characters that aren't designated as BAD.

It's not that different for many adult roleplayers either.

[Brand_Robins]

Originally posted by Thierry Michel
It's not that different for many adult roleplayers either.

Yea, tru dat.

Some adult roleplayers, however, get a hardened streak you won't find in kids. I've never seen a kid go on the brutal, no-morals, slaughter fest that become almost booring common in certain types of RPGs. (Vampire, some Cyberpunk, "evil" D&D games, etc.)

[Arbane the Terrible]

Interesting Actual Play, this.

On the subject of death and violence in kid's games--has anyone else here ever read a book called "KIlling Monsters"? It's about why kids need violent & heroic fanatasies.

I don't have any kids, but I found it interesting.

Anyway, good luck with the game--HeroQuest is proably a good choice, as most fights won't end in a death unless the winner WANTS it to.

[Cultist of Sooty]

Originally posted by Arbane the Terrible
On the subject of death and violence in kid's games--has anyone else here ever read a book called "KIlling Monsters"? It's about why kids need violent & heroic fanatasies.
No, but I just looked it up on Amazon and they tell me:

"Perfect Partner
Buy Killing Monsters: Our Children's Need for Fantasy, Heroism and Make-believe Violence with Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill: A Call to Action Against TV, Movie and Video Game Violence today!"

Wow. Talk about a mixed message. :)

[Cultist of Sooty]

Originally posted by Brand_Robins
Depends what you're doing. For a Pokemon style game it's all good to do it that way. However, I'll also note that we often underestimate children and their ability to deal with serious stories. You can play a game in which things, even good people, die with kids -- you just have to be responsive to how they deal with it.
Very true. I'd always err on the side of caution, and always be prepared to step back from the brink at the last minute.

I might have to see if Katy wants to try roleplaying. Her parents don't, but her dad has expressed a vague interest in the past. I'll have to try to organise a short game that doesn't exceed their attention spans.

[Gon]

Originally posted by Captain Spaulding
No, but I just looked it up on Amazon and they tell me:

"Perfect Partner
Buy Killing Monsters: Our Children's Need for Fantasy, Heroism and Make-believe Violence with Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill: A Call to Action Against TV, Movie and Video Game Violence today!"

Wow. Talk about a mixed message. :)
"Fairy tales do not tell children the dragons exist.Children already know that dragons exist.Fairy tales tell children the dragons can be killed."
G.K.Chesterton

[Ian Absentia]

Wow. There are so many great posts I won't be able to respond to all of them individually. However, there are certain themes that come up again and again, so I'll address them in generalities, citing specific posts where necessary. Thank you all for your interest and input. I'll be posting a summary of Session #2 after this.

How long were the sessions?
This was important, and as most people have guessed we had to tailor the event to the attention span of a 4-year-old boy (different from a 4-year-old girl? I don't know -- I'll let you know what I find out in another two years). I planned ahead on breaking things down to 1-hour blocks, seeing that my son is commonly able to sit for about one-and-a-half hours steady when being entertained passively with a video (more or less, depending on the given movie). Figuring that roleplaying would involve a fair amount of "work" on his part, I didn't want to push his limits, so an hour seemed just about right.

Character creation took about 45 minutes face-to-face before he seemed to run out of ideas that were important to him. Once things wound down a little I told him that I'd do the fiddly bookkeeping myself and we'd start playing the actual game the following day. This seemed to have worked out well as my son had put a good bit of imagination into creating Mevi, and it gave him time to think about the character a little before play. The first session actually went on for about an hour and a half, which surprised me, but he was pretty excited and eager to get more of his new game. As it turns out, I was the one to break things off in order to plan for the next chapter, and it was a convenient stopping point.

Now, as with any game, there were periodic dips in attention -- I'd say about every 20 minutes or so. Fortunately, this was a one-on-one game where I was able to devote all of my energy in engaging my son and his single character. My guess is that things might not have gone so smoothely had there been more people at the table to distract either him or me.

How did I know my son was old enough or mature enough to play?
I had long imagined that 5 years old was a sort of "magic number" at which I'd introduce roleplaying to him. He's crested the hump of 4-and-a-half, so we're close, and he's been expressing the interest himself. It just seemed like a good time to test the waters.

Almost two years ago I started telling stories from memory rather than reading them from a book. About a year ago my son began to request that I make up stories on the spot rather than reciting the old rotes. Within the last 8 months or so he's been able to concentrate sufficiently to listen to me read a novel without pictures chapter by chapter (starting with Charlie and the Chocolate Factory over the summer, then one of the Bionicle novellas, and we just finished Ursula LeGuin's A Wizard of Earthsea about a month ago). Again, the time just seemed right.

Weren't you concerned with frightening him?
Similar to how when you introduce potentially objectionable material into a game (sex, drugs, whatever), you just need to know your players and what they're ready to handle. I avoided particularly gruesome details, and I kept the encounters from becoming too macabre. A beaked dragonewt was just about as bizarre as I wanted to get, at least at first.

With regard to the reaction of Mevi's father to his son's failure, I was ready to back away from the situation if it pulled too many strings. When I first played out this scenario with my nephew, who was 10 at the time, the rejection by the character's father really shook him up, so I was playing things carefully. Fortunately my son took it pretty well. As for the suggestion of quickly smoothing things over with the father, I think my son is familiar with enough similar stories (Runaway Bunny, Where the Wild Things Are) to be comfortable with the idea of a child wandering away from home to adventure for a while then return to the safety and acceptance of home when he's ready. If he says he wants his dad to show up, then I'll make certain it happens promptly, but for right now he wants to ride horses and meet pirates. :)

How assertive is your son? How much control do you exert over the game?
As I've indicated -- and as a number of you have suggested -- there are moments when my son is just plain a 4-year-old boy and he wants me to show him how to do things. I still try to encourage him to take the reins himself, but I'll give him enough helpful suggestions to get him started, and I'll even suggest which one is the best or at least ideal option.

What's next for adventure?
I'll be detailing Mevi's encounter at the Yelm temple and monastery in my next post. After that, I think I'll be incorporating a number of Captain Spaulding's suggestions for the sea-going voyage to Corflu. My son has expressed a great interest in ships and pirates, but he says he wants to ride in the desert after that. Once they reach the vicinity of Prax, I'm rather partial to pulling a "Little Big Man" on the boy and play up the lighter side of life among the Beast Rider tribes (I think the Zebra Riders might just completely blow his mind :)), though I'm undecided if that should be before or after he returns Ruihella to her home. Probably after, as this will segue nicely into a sensible reason for him to cross the inhospitable Genert Wastes on his way back to Teshnos. Farther down the road, I really liked Simon's suggestion of the Mostali archaeological expedition in the Genert Wastes.

I also really appreciated the suggestions of making my son's version of Glorantha a much more socially hospitable place, where a good-hearted boy is able to make a difference in the face of the disparate and often warring peoples.

What about Ruihella? The dragonewt? The leopard?
Ruihella should be a fun character. I've actually had her in mind as an NPC since about 1987, and I've used her on an occasion or two. No fainting maiden is she -- I have her in mind as a potential initiate to the Yelorna cult, possibly even as a Unicorn Rider. At the moment at least, true to her Yelmalion roots, she can hold her own with a spear and a bow.

I've already had some ideas about bringing the Clouded Leopard back into the story eventually. However, my initial thoughts were along a strange and probably too-mature line of having the leopard reveal itself as a were-leopard who was the real father of Mevi and killed his wife (Mevi's mother) back out of jealousy, suggesting that Mevi himself might be a were-leopard. Er...okay, so maybe I wasn't thinking too straight at the time. Not for a 4-year-old. I think I will, however, introduce links to the Clouded Leopard theme from time to time, probably in the form of a repentant guardian spirit that will mysteriously lend assistance every now and then.

As for the dragonewt, I hadn't planned on bringing him back, and at this point his recurrance may be so far off that it's a non-issue. Still, if this campaign proves to be a going concern, there may be plenty of opportunity for Mevi and the lizard to patch up their differences.

G'ah, I'm sure I haven't addressed everything I wanted to, but that should still bring things up to speed. Next up, Session #2.

!i!

[Ian Absentia]

This session got off to an interesting start. My son declared that his character didn't actually have his golden cuffs and boots yet, but that he wants to find them during the adventure. Frankly, I was momentarily stunned -- a desire for delayed gratification? From a 4-year-old? What's been getting into his drinking water? I thought this was a particularly cool thing, and very much in keeping with the narrative style of HeroQuest. Just for that, I'm bumping this possession from Golden Bracers and Boots 17 up to 1W for free.

The journey from Wokistan to the mountain temple of Yelm took a number of days, described as tough hiking, but not presenting any immediate dangers. Basically, I just wanted to get Mevi and Ruihella to the temple and then on to greater adventure. Once in sight of the golden-domed temple, Ruihella expressed great releif and joy, which pleased my son nicely, though I think he may have thought he had already gotten her home. The temple guards were reluctant to let the two foreign children in at first, but Ruihella was able to exhibit her related cult status while Mevi related recent events. They were admitted to the courtyard and told to wait.

Before long, a temple functionary arrived to greet them and find out what the two children sought of Yelm and the temple. Again, my son briefly recounted the story, emphsising the link between Ruihella's drawing of a domed temple and this temple. The priest then turned to Ruihella and began to speak to her, and Ruihella began to speak back to him haltingly. The priest shortly informed Mevi that she was able to speak a dialectical form of an ancient temple language, and she was able to let him know that she was from a Sun Dome temple in a strange land far to the west -- Prax and Sun County. Further, she had been taken captive by marauding Morokanths, sold into slavery, spending weeks on a ship until they made port and she was sold to the dragonewt. The priest was sure to impress upon the two children that it was a great honor to be chosen by the inscrutable dragonewts, even if it was possibly with the intent of being eaten. At this point, Ruihella produced a necklace that was hidden in her clothing, at the sight of which the priest's eyes went wide with surprise and awe. He then hurriedly excused himself to consult with his fellow priests and promised to return shortly.

Now, it's worth mentioning at this point that I played fast and loose quite a bit here. In my original plans, this scene was supposed to take place at the Sun Dome temple in Sartar, in which case the language barrier wouldn't be quite so significant. However, with the relocation to Teshnos things had to be stretched significantly. Gloranthan truists may be quick to point out that there is no known temple language among the Yelm pantheon that spans the entire continent of Genertela. Well, there is now in my game, and at least it is still subject to dialectical drift. Also, the exact nature of the necklace and is still undetermined at this point. It was originally rolled up at random from the old RQI book Plunder, a necklace that serves as a deed to land, and was actually the original inspiration for the character of Ruihella all those many years ago. So, basically, Ruihella is heir to some special role among the ranks of the Yelm pantheon worshippers, something important enough to raise eyebrows all the way on the other side of the continent. Again, this would be more easily waived aside if the distance involved was simply between Prax and Sartar. Thankfully, my 4-year-old son is not so critical.

I noticed that all this talky-talky stuff was beginning to make my son's eyes glaze and he began to fiddle with the dice. Seizing on the priest's absence as an opportunity to introduce a gratuitous simple contest to keep the boy's interest, I had a captain of the temple guard approach Mevi, scoffing at his claims that a mere boy bested a dragonewt warrior with only a sling. My son pressed his claim to his merit, whereupon the captain challenged Mevi to a contest. He walked twenty paces and balanced a gold piece on edge on top of a low wall. Knock the gold piece off with his sling, the captain challenged, and you can keep the coin. Two good things in play here -- a chance to show off his one really top-notch ability, and also an opportunity to start collecting that repayment for the loss of his father's furs. The first roll, given Mevi's skill and the tiny size of the coin matched a success against a success, with my son rolling lower again -- a Marginal Victory. The coin was grazed by the whizzing stone, setting it spinning and then rattling to a halt still on top of the wall. Amid the jeers of the other onlooking guards, the captain grudgingly picked up the coin and flipped it to Mevi. However, declaring it a lucky shot that barely succeeded, the captain further bet Mevi another gold piece that he couldn't repeat the feat, obviously hoping to win back his losses. Mevi accepted and the captain placed a second gold coin on top of the wall. This time around my son rolled a 1, a critical hit, and the roll for the coin failed -- a Major Victory. Mevi his the gold coin squarely, sending the coin ricocheting off the wall so hard it made the captain duck. The other guards cheered Mevi heartily, the captain handed him the second gold piece, then clapped the boy on the shoulder and half-jokingly declared that Mevi would have to teach him how to usea sling like that some day. My son seemed deeply satisfied by the results of the contest, particularly excited by the captain's praise.

After the contest, the priest returned to the courtyard and invited Mevi and Ruihella into an inner chamber to meet with a small group of other priests. There, the priests explained the importance to the temple of Yelm and Yelm's children that Ruihella be returned to her rightful home. Something about destiny and yadda-yadda-lofty-templespeak. Mevi was praised for his bravery and his role in restoring Ruihella to her intended path. Furthermore, he was invited to help return her to her home if he wished to do so. My son readily agreed, thoughts of Mevi's previous life in the forest far behind, and Ruihella expressed her eagerness to include Mevi as a companion. Preparations were set in motion to organise a mission to travel to Prax.

At this point I asked my son if he wanted to adventure in the desert or on board a ship. He eagerly announced that he preferred to go by ship, but that afterwards he wanted to travel in the desert on a horse. So, a party of monks and guards was put together to travel from the mountains of Matkondu to the bustling port city of Gio to hire a ship bound for the West. I see shades of Star Wars already -- "The seaport of Gio. You'll not find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy."

The session concluded with the small caravan assembling for its departure. Bactrian camels laden with supplies. Guards and monks mounted on decorated horses. The captain of the guards resplendent in his full armor and horse bow over his back, greeting Mevi as an honored equal. Ruihella appearing on the back of a cloud-white horse, freshly washed and dressed in new silken finery, a bow across her back and a spear at her side. Mevi was offered a mount, but being a backwoods trapper, he hardly even knew what a horse was. I wrote Ride Horse 6 on his character sheet and let him roll. Not good. Mevi failed and the horse succeeded, indicating a Minor Defeat. The horse minced and pulled as Mevi attempted to mount, causing the boy to slip from the stirrup and fall to the ground. My son was unhappy with this result, but Ruihella rode up to Mevi, offering her hand to him and helping him onto a set behind her. Both Ruihella and the captain promised to teach Mevi to ride in the days to come. My son was satisfied and we brought the session to an end.

Does anyone have any particular ideas for passing adventure across the better part of Teshnos? I don't want to get too involved, as the real goal is to get onto a ship and have some sea-going adventures, but there ought to be some local flavor on the way. Something involving elephants I should imagine. And this may also be where I introduce the Clouded Leopard guardian spirit in some fashion.

!i!

[Ian Sturrock]

Originally posted by Captain Spaulding
Every other boy of his age I've ever known would dig a swashbuckling sea voyage. There have to be scurvy pirates with eyepatches and stuff. Trust me, little kids love pirates...

I ran a game of Skull & Bones for my 3-year-old son's first RPG session -- writeup can be found here:

http://www.livejournal.com/users/serpentstar/9438.html#cutid1

Since then we've played D&D a couple of times too, but favourite so far has been Monster Island -- he can be a robot, or an alien, or just a big ol' monster, and he doesn't have to worry about anything other than throwing boulders and chewing people up. The system is very RPG-like, being based on the Action! system.

[Thierry]

Originally posted by Ian Young
My son seemed deeply satisfied by the results of the contest, particularly excited by the captain's praise.

Have you thought about what to do should he fail ? My niece, for instance, wouldn't play games because she hated losing.

[SJE]

Originally posted by Thierry Michel
Have you thought about what to do should he fail ? My niece, for instance, wouldn't play games because she hated losing.

This isnt limited to 4 year old children. A number of chronologically adult gamers also react badly to 'losing'. But if make it part of the learning experience, it is OK.

SJE

[Radical Authority]

Thanks for posting this, it's great reading.

RA

[SJE]

Already thinking of how to get young Wizard into gaming Pat?

Steve

[Cultist of Sooty]

Originally posted by Thierry Michel
Have you thought about what to do should he fail ? My niece, for instance, wouldn't play games because she hated losing.
I'd play down the losses and play up the victories. Or try to make some positive thing come out of the failure, too. Try to think like a spin doctor... :)
Another trick that might work is to make the losses fun. Making it all get a bit slapstick when the young'un fails to get on the horse, for example, might mitigate the upset at failure. Children seem to like it when things/people trip up, get knocked down or fall out of cupboards.

[Radical Authority]

Originally posted by SJE
Already thinking of how to get young Wizard into gaming Pat?

Steve

The proper name is a good start, I figure. This post and Ian Sturrock's Live Journal piec are inspirational. Only three and a years to go!

He's waving at the screen as I type - "Hi RPG.net!"

RA

[Arkaengel]

Originally posted by Ian Young
Does anyone have any particular ideas for passing adventure across the better part of Teshnos? I don't want to get too involved, as the real goal is to get onto a ship and have some sea-going adventures, but there ought to be some local flavor on the way. Something involving elephants I should imagine. And this may also be where I introduce the Clouded Leopard guardian spirit in some fashion.
The old standby, escorting a caravan or travelling part of the way accompanying one? Good chance to introduce elephants and maybe some of the other non-human Gloranthan races, perhaps.

Rockin' writeups, btw. More, please.

[Ian Absentia]

Originally posted by Thierry Michel
Have you thought about what to do should he fail ?...and...Originally posted by Captain Spaulding
I'd play down the losses and play up the victories. Or try to make some positive thing come out of the failure, too. Try to think like a spin doctor... :)The good Captain has his finger on the pulse here. The scene where Mevi first tries to mount a horse (and fails) is a good example. In this case, I knew the character had little chance of succeeding, so I was prepared to have a couple of trusted and knowledgable NPCs immediately offer help. My son didn't want to give over so easily at first, but then he saw the sense in going along with it.

As was pointed out, dealing with failed rolls, particularly in tense situations, isn't a problem confined to small children. In the case of my son, I'm ready to mitigate the sense of failure in any number of ways -- alternate opportunities, NPC backups, or, as Captain Spaulding suggests, trying to make good fun of the situation.

It's bound to happen, though, that we'll encounter a situation where he'll end up upset and despondent, but that's where being a parent will take precedence over being a GM. We'll take a break from the game, I'll give him a reassuring hug, and we'll discuss how one failed roll -- no matter how important it seems at the time -- isn't the end of the game. I'll explain how the game is meant to simulate real life in a way, and that no matter what the momentary setbacks and upsets are, there are an almost infinite number of possibilities for fun just a short way down the road...as long as we keep playing. We'll get a quick snack, review the fun parts of the game thus far, then we'll get back to gaming. I think it'll work.

!i!

[Cultist of Sooty]

Originally posted by Ian Young
As was pointed out, dealing with failed rolls, particularly in tense situations, isn't a problem confined to small children. In the case of my son, I'm ready to mitigate the sense of failure in any number of ways -- alternate opportunities, NPC backups, or, as Captain Spaulding suggests, trying to make good fun of the situation.
Another useful way to spin things I just thought of is to emphasise how it's not Mevi failing, but whatever is resisting him doing well. For example, it's not that Mevi fails to get on the horse, it's that the horse is very naughty and moves out of the way, or whatever. That might help your son feel less like it's failure and more like just another story thing that's happening.

Originally posted by Ian Young
It's bound to happen, though, that we'll encounter a situation where he'll end up upset and despondent, but that's where being a parent will take precedence over being a GM. We'll take a break from the game, I'll give him a reassuring hug, and we'll discuss how one failed roll -- no matter how important it seems at the time -- isn't the end of the game. I'll explain how the game is meant to simulate real life in a way, and that no matter what the momentary setbacks and upsets are, there are an almost infinite number of possibilities for fun just a short way down the road...as long as we keep playing. We'll get a quick snack, review the fun parts of the game thus far, then we'll get back to gaming. I think it'll work.
Good advice. There are some grown-up friends of mine I could try this tack with...

[cgordon_13]

I think this is a marvelous idea! Fantastic!

Have you considered writing his adventures with Mevi down as a story? You could include a few quotes from your son as Mevi as well as the other characters. I'm thinking of something more literary than the reports you're posting here, rather a simple children's story style. I think it would be something special for him to be able to keep a story that he helped create. You could have (short) chapters: "Introduction", "Mevi and the Dragonewt", Mevi visits the Moutain Temple", etc. for each session.

I'm not suggesting that you attempt to publish the story, and each chapter wouldn't have to be long either, but keep it as a personal memento for you and your son. You could use it as a bedtime story or teach him to read with it.

I don't have kids yet, but I would have loved to have a story that I helped create when I was a kid. The reports you've written so far sound like a fairy tale adventure - just the kind of thing children love.

Chris

[3EBB_Barak]

While things seem to be going great with HeroQuest for you, I don't have that system, and I'm thinking of how to introduce my own kids to gaming.. And I figure, "Heck, perhaps I finally can get some mileage out of my Toon books!".. Character creation is very simple, and there is no deaths whatsoever, only sitting out for 3 minutes.. So that might work out well for me and mine!

Also, especially if I'd go with another system, I figure there's nothing wrong with going more along the lines of the "choose your own paths" books. And eventually, I'm sure they'd figure out something better then the options I give them, and I can slowly stop giving options out...

[nemo]

Thanks for posting this thread. It's been a fascinating and thought-provoking read so far-- reminds me of the sort of articles Interactive Fantasy used to feature.

[Mithras]

Ian, well done - I think you are doing brilliantly. You say your been read Charlie & the Chocolate Factory - that's great for a 4-year old. Impressed!

As you know, I'vebeen RPing with my own son for a few years, and now I have another (adopted, age 5) I'm on my way to creating my own RPG group ... I'm currently figuring the best way to get a game underway for the both of them.

One thing I did notice in your write up is the way he comes up with ideas that you have to reject because they don't quite jibe with Glorantha. Must you stick close to the source material? In fact, I'd be interested to hear why you've chosen to go with such a detailed setting. I've found that build-their-own settings really get them hooked, involved and caring about the whole thing.

[Ian Absentia]

Originally posted by Mithras
One thing I did notice in your write up is the way he comes up with ideas that you have to reject because they don't quite jibe with Glorantha. Must you stick close to the source material? In fact, I'd be interested to hear why you've chosen to go with such a detailed setting. I've found that build-their-own settings really get them hooked, involved and caring about the whole thing. I chose Glorantha, first, because I'm so familiar with it, which provides me with ample fodder for improvising a wide range of fantastic encounters, and second, because much of the seiminal influence on Glorantha was not only mythical but fantastical and fairy-tale-like. Also, it's a setting that I just plain like, an indulgence for myself as the GM. The Glorantha that I'm presenting is really more of a Grimm's version with more simplified interaction and conflict. By and large, my son will only be seeing the glossier, more agreeable side of things.

As for rejecting my son's improvisations, so far the only significant matter was the jaguar. I have to admit that the only reason it was a problem for even a short bit was because I found myself stuck on it. However, the spotted cat theme quickly suggested the clouded leopard, which he really enjoyed, at least as much as the jaguar (and, truth be told, jaguars and leopards are totally conflated in my son's thinking -- I'm not sure he makes any distinction between them other than by name). The rest of things involved working with him to mesh his vision with mine during character creation, find a mutual starting point, then improvise from there.

Actually, I may have made a bit of a liar of myself. There were a few times when I had to veto some of my son's suggested actions. For instance, running from the dragonewt, once Mevi reached the village, he insisted that he quickly built a stone wall all around the settlement to protect them from the following lizard. I gently told him that it would take far too long to build it, so he then suggested that Mevi and the entire village band together to build the wall. While I admired his passion for cooperation and organisation, I simply informed him that even as Mevi attempted to gather the people of the village together, the dragonewt arrived in town. Now, had we been playing a fairy-tale version of Exalted then I would have let him roll a fist full of dice to see if his Splendid Masonry Technique / Hands of the Jackrabbit combo succeeded (no, really!). But, I'm trying to follow the fairy-tale Path of the Hero concept, starting him out young and humble, then building adventure by adventure into a stronger, more competent hero, worthy of returning to his lost home (probably in a time of dire need).

By the way, in case anyone has noticed striking similarities to stories like "Jack and the Beanstalk", they aren't accidental. Reading through a copy of The Complete Grimm's Fairy Tales is a great inspirational primer before sitting down to an improvised roleplaying session. Relating to previous posts, many of the themes involve children dealing with the consequences of wandering from home, relying on their wits to overcome adversity, then returning to the safety and acceptance of the one's who love them. This is exactly what I have in store for Mevi and my son.

!i!

[Ian Absentia]

Originally posted by cgordon_13
Have you considered writing his adventures with Mevi down as a story? You could include a few quotes from your son as Mevi as well as the other characters. I'm thinking of something more literary than the reports you're posting here, rather a simple children's story style.I haven't written them down in narrative form yet (except for the tales I've recounted here), but I've already told "Mevi and the Dragonewt" followed seamlessly by "Mevi and the Sun Temple" as bedtime stories. My younger daughter enjoys listening to the stories as well and parrots a number of elements back to me later.

The next chapter has been interrupted by those deucedly pressing adult concerns (interviews, parent-teacher conferences, funerals, all back-to-back), so I still have time to formulate the trans-Teshnos caravan story. Not exactly sure what to throw at him on the trip, but I'm looking forward to Mevi's arrival in the seaport of Gio.

!i!

[droog]

I'm enjoying this thread (ours is almost three). Michelle's comment got me thinking about the decisions involved; the sort of world-view one would want to demonstrate. We're picky about the books our daughter reads: I hope I can live up to my own standard.

[CosmicCowboy]

Great reading! Now I can't wait to have kids of my own.

[Ian Absentia]

Wow, I had totally forgotten about this thread. Thanks for bringing it back to my attention.

As an update, we haven't devoted as much time as we should to this game, but the son and I still get back to it every now and then. Following up on Mithras' query and comment, I've actually loosened up the structure of the world greatly and largely abandoned the canon Glorantha setting. The general framework of Glorantha is still greatly visible (the originating place names, societies, and creatures from Anaxial's Roster, etc.), but I've replaced the map with -- of all things -- a bolderised version of the map from Exalted (I knew I'd finally come up with a use for that game). On a little black-and-white copy I have here, I sketch out rough borders and jot in notes for assorted locales relating to various movies or books that happen to be commanding our fancy at the time. So far bits from Glorantha, Hunter: The Age of Magic, Harry Potter, Return of the King, the Narnia series, and Tove Jansson's "Moominbooks" have made the map. Essentially, as Mithras suggested, we're letting the world unfold itself based mostly on what interests my son at the time, and also muchly on what interests me as well.

I'll write up more of Mevi's adventures some time soon.

!i!

[Ian Absentia]

Now I can't wait to have kids of my own.I shall address you frankly. Do not be in a hurry to do so.

;)

!i!

[Champion Blue]

This has a been a good read.

Although my 4year old niece will never be into role playing games due to her parents, she always enjoyed the Animated Knights of the Dinner Table: Hoody Hoo Cartoons (http://www.hoodyhoo.com/default.htm)

Her favorites were Call of Cthulu inspired
"SIX, SIX, SIX No Nyarlathotep, know peace. Know Nyarlathotep, no peace."(the scary one, she called it)

and the Vampire LARP inspired
"EPISODE IV: A NEW HOPE Being the insight into the seductive power of live-action RPGs (well..power over Dave, anyway) ".

[Ian Absentia]

Let me bring everyone up to speed on our HeroQuest campaign.

First, the length of our sessions have shortened a bit. Usually, we sit down to the table to review what's already happened, brainstorm ideas for future events, and generally discuss how the game works. This commonly occupies ten to fifteen minutes. The actual game play usually takes place over only the next half hour -- sometimes 45 minutes. So, I've been making our sessions punchier in order to keep my son's attention.

Next, we recently invited my 3-year-old daughter to join the campaign. My son offered her the character of Ruihella. This didn't actually work out very well. The girl is whipsmart, but she's not quite ready to structure her imaginative thoughts into a linear narrative.

"She's a princess!"
"She has pink hair!"
"She goes to her castle!"
"Uhhh...I don't know."

None the less, she had a fun time watching my son and me play, became quite excited by the narrative, fascinated by the die-rolling. In general, she enjoyed the game in the role of an audience (which helps support a theory of mine for the evolution of a form of storytelling roleplaying game that incorporates the interactive involvement of an audience, but that's another matter). So, she's expressed an interest in attending our game sessions now, if not actually playing them (though she actively roots for Ruihella and occasionally shouts out desired actions for her to take, which I try to heed when appropriate).

As far as action goes, Mevi and Ruihella have set out from the Solar temple in a caravan of supply-laden camels and warrior guards, resplendent in yellow, gold, and red silk uniforms, mounted on fine horses. Following Mevi's unfortunate mishap with his first attempt to ride a horse, Ruihella has taught him the basics of riding (spend a Hero Point for Ride 13), and the captain of the guards has begun to teach him the fundamentals of the bow and arrow (another HP for Archery 13). Mevi also taught the captain how to use a sling properly, which was a good ego-stroke for the boy. These events were used to help drill the mechanics, but they didn't pack much drama, so I decided to cut loose and spring something more fantastic on him.

By and large, the caravan stuck close to a river for their journey, but in order to make better time, they eventually struck out across a plain covered in a vast sea of tall grasses. Swaying waves of green and tan grass tassles washed around the heads of horses and the seemingly legless torsos of their riders, heads of camels with their humps like swaying islands covered in packs of supplies. Everything seemed calm and uneventful until, springing from its hiding place in the grass, a huge tiger leapt across the back of Ruihella's horse, seizing the girl in its huge jaws and unseating her from her saddle. Much to Mevi's surprise, the tiger didn't complete the arc of its leap to the ground, but continued to bound swiftly higher and higher into the middle air. For those not familiar with Anaxial's Roster, this was a Storm Tiger.

Mevi readied a stone in his sling, but was afraid of hitting Ruihella, so he sat frozen in his saddle for a moment, trying to figure out how to help the girl. Just when all seemed lost, the tiger growing smaller in the distance, a sleek Cloud Leopard bounded next to Mevi, whispering in a low growl, "Quick! Grab hold!" The beauty of playing with a little boy is that he did just as the leopard said without paranoid hesitation. With Mevi holding on for dear life around the cat's neck, the Cloud Leopard proceeded to leap upwards from cloud to cloud, pursuing the Storm Tiger and Ruihella.
[Note: Allowing a Cloud Leopard the ability to leap across the sky from cloud to cloud was my own impromptu contribution to Glorantha.]

Things got good here. My son declared that he was going to try to bean the tiger with his sling after all. When I asked him how he was going to free his hands, he stated that he was going to hold onto the leopard with only his legs. A bold move, and the roll went surprisingly well, allowing him to do just that. Unfortunately, in the subsequent roll to sling a stone, my son rolled a 20 -- a fumble -- and the fleeing tiger did pretty well on his resistance roll. The result was that, in all the excitement and bustle, Mevi failed to cast the stone at all, but instead smacked himself in the forehead with it and fell off the back of the leopard, plummeting toward the ground far below. The leopard snarled out to him, "Reach for the clouds!"

My son took the advice to heart and Mevi tried to grab the nearest cloud as he fell. He was close, but managed only a Marginal Failure. Mevi felt the cloud almost break his fall, but he still slipped aside and continued to fall. The next two attempts didn't go much better, and eventually, Mevi had to be saved from certain death by the Cloud Leopard who snatched him by the collar at just the last moment and began leaping upward through the clouds again. The leopard eventually let Mevi off on a cloud, exhorting him to follow the tiger and save the girl. "It's vital that you do so! Don't fear the sky. Leap from cloud to cloud as I do -- it's your birthright!" Then the leopard leapt off and away into the mist.

Now, if you'll go all the way back to the beginning of this thread, you'll note that my son said he wanted his character to be able to fly, but I poo-poo'd that notion. Well, I changed my mind, and it makes sense in context now. I haven't told my son yet how it is that Mevi is able to do it, but the character now has the ability of Cloud Leap 13 (anyone here care to venture a guess how Mevi's able to do it?). Also, at this point I'll explain that Mevi has become caught piggy-in-the-middle of a conflict between Storm Rune extremists who are out to undermine the power of the Solar temples and Storm Rune moderates who are trying to reign in the extremists and maintain a state of détente with the Solar pantheon.

Back to the action, Mevi found himself able to leap falteringly between the clouds, and eventually came upon a high mountain top where he found the tracks of a large tiger. The action ended when my son rolled a Complete Defeat while tracking the beast toward its lair and I tried to figure out a new angle to reasonably allow him to find the tiger and the girl. Still, things are pretty exciting at this point.

Next up, I have a question about the scaling of magical skills. That'll have to wait until tomorrow, though, and maybe I'll have figured matters out better from the book (Captain Spaulding, please be on stand-by).

!i!

(P.S. My son has recently been inducted into the ranks of 5-year-olds -- a distinction is ready to make at all relevant opportunities -- though I am unable to change the title of this thread.)

[RemyDuron]

Man, you've just made me want to play Heroquest SO bad. Awesome thread... Sounds like a Disney movie (And I mean that in a good way).

A similar thread, for those of you who liked this one: Prydain (http://www.indie-rpgs.com/viewtopic.php?t=10001&highlight=prydain)

All the funnier when you realize the guy who started that thread is the same guy that wrote kill puppies for satan.

Edit: Drat! beaten to it. Ah well.

[jdrakeh]

That is so incredibly cool. If I wasn't sold on HeroQuest before reading your posts, Ian - I definitely am now :D

[Glitch Please]

kids are natural rpg-ers. they're awesome. make believe is actually advanced rpg-ing if you think about it. unlike us, they don't have to unlearn all the obstacles that comes when you "make believe". and they don't need dice to or mechanics to to resolve drama. it comes natural to children.

[Cultist of Sooty]

Next up, I have a question about the scaling of magical skills. That'll have to wait until tomorrow, though, and maybe I'll have figured matters out better from the book (Captain Spaulding, please be on stand-by).
Ian - your game sounds like it rocks on toast, so I'll definitely be keeping an eye out.

I'll be on holiday from Monday 9th till Monday 16th, though I'll probably be picking up mail and keeping an eye on forums on Thursday night.

[Voriof]

Ian, you're an inspiration. Now to get me some kids... :D

Voriof

[Cith]

Damn, this is great stuff!

[Ian Absentia]

Ian, you're an inspiration. Now to get me some kids... :DAs I stated earlier in the thread, do not hurry. :)

On to other matters, I think I've struck upon both something to account for the Complete Defeat that my son rolled when Mevi was tracking the tiger on the mountaintop, and a means for conducting an extended contest for the pre-mathematical. The aforementioned failed roll resulted in Mevi losing the storm tiger's tracks, but the complete defeat will result in the tiger hunting Mevi. This, in turn, will lead to an extended contest where my son will have to decide if he wants to run, hide, or hunt the hunter. I'm hoping for the last. As for the extended contest -- I don't know why I didn't think of this before -- I'll count out Go stones for both Mevi and the storm tiger, one stone for each AP. I figure that the visual and tactile nature of this pile of white stones versus that pile of black stones will convey the give-and-take nature of a protracted contest. More on this as it plays out.

Now, on to the question regarding magical abilities. As noted above, my son discovered that Mevi possesses the ability of Cloud Leap 13. This is great -- he can hop from cloud to cloud now, magically defying nature. Here's the rub. As someone stated very clearly in the HeroQuest/Exalted thread (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=135991&highlight=exalted+heroquest), it's all about the masteries -- Inexorable Eyes of Flaming Death 13 ain't no better than Brick in the Face 13. So, how does this line of thinking affect Cloud Leap 13? Granted, implicit is the ability to at least stand on a cloud, that much is clear. But what about the leaping part? How should the scale of resistances scale against this ability? How different is Cloud Leap 13 from the more mundane Jump Real High 13?

Case in point -- take a look at the sample resistances in the rulebook. Under "Jumping Vertically", leaping to the top of a 10' tree is a 10W3 resistance, leaping to the top of a city wall is 10W5, and leaping to the top of Kero Fin is 10W9. I'm figuring the distance between your average clouds (not even considering the distance from the ground to the nearest cloud) is generally going to be something between the height of a city wall and the top of Kero Fin, so...10W7? Yikes. Okay, so that's the difficulty for the average schmoe trying to jump from one cloud to another, without any special, magical cloud jumping magic. Now, Mevi's specific, magical ability is Cloud Leap, so is this his comparative rank against other cloud-leaping beings, or is this his comparative rank against anyone trying to jump between clouds?

Do you see where this is going? If it's the former, then I would scale the resistances down, not having to account for people who just plain can't cloud-jump. If it's the latter, then Mevi's meager capability -- as fantastic as it is -- will likely send him plummeting to the flat, square earth in all but the densest cloud cover. I'm thinking that it's actually the latter, and, at least at first, Mevi had best confine his cloud-leaping to dense, close cloud cover, and will likely only be able to mount clouds from high mountainsides, or perhaps treetops in low cloud conditions.

!i!

[Drastic]

Keep in mind that those sample resistances are for folks trying to jump about without magic. Actual resistance against magical foo is 14, if my memory's functioning correctly right now.

So, were it up to me, Mevi can leap from cloud to cloud using that 13 vs the default resistance to magic-cloud-leapin' of 14. Most of the time that's going to yield marginal successes or failures--I might call level of success more indicative of speed than distance. Marginal victories not being much faster than the wind itself, with a tendency for feet to get tangled up in the cloudstuff between leaps.

Marginal defeats I'd personally usually say not meaning falling and so forth, but the current cloud pattern just not supporting getting to where the lad wants to go at the moment. He wants to get to that mountain peak over yonder, but there's just too much blue sky in between--time to take a long way around.

The fistfuls of counters for AP is a darn good idea for many adults, too.

Extremely neat thread.

[soru]

Now, Mevi's specific, magical ability is Cloud Leap, so is this his comparative rank against other cloud-leaping beings, or is this his comparative rank against anyone trying to jump between clouds?


Think of magic as if one person had ´run fast 13´and one had ´use train 13´. The run fast person can go anywhere, the train person can go to only specific spots, but does so immensely faster than any runner.

If you do what´s written on the ticket, you just roll against 14 (for magic or British Rail, other train systems may have a lower target) and you get there. Because of the nature of train travel, greater distance is not greater difficulty. The things that do add difficulty are making multiple tight connection changes, heading cross-town to get to another station in the same town, sneaking onto a train you have no ticket for, jumping onto a frieght train, etc.. So for train travel, ´middle of nowhere 17´and ´secret military base 1W2´would be suitable opposing abilities, ´far away W3´ isn´t.

Áll of that is for contests with the environment, tests that say ´can you do that?´. On the other hand, if you were racing someone else using the train system, then you just roll skill versus skill to see who gets there first.

Finally, if you have a contest between someone using two different travel abilities, you may want to give a penalty to one or the other depending on the current situation. For example, if the train user has been established to be already on the train, a runner would get a pretty massive penalty, but if not, then it would by default be a straight contest, with the runner chasing the traveller down the platform, either stopping them before they board or not.

This last is probably some principle of script-writing - if there is nothing to say otherwise, always try to frame a scene so it is a dramatic contest. Bombs in films are occasionally defused with more than 30 seconds on the clock, but not very often.

In other words, _nar_ rather than _sim_, as the forge people would say. But dont try to explain that to your 5 year old.

soru

[Ian Absentia]

Oh. That was simple. Page 98, default magical resistance for magical abilities. I should have recalled the example where Jane uses her tree leaping boots. Now, if Mevi tries to leap clouds all the way into the Sky Realm, resistances are going to change.

!i!

[Mac Logo]

Now, if Mevi tries to leap clouds all the way into the Sky Realm, resistances are going to change.

That's simple too. Page 198 - Alien World Penalty.
:)

Graeme

[Mithras]

This thread's got me interested in using the Near East as a children's setting. I've been fishing around for some 'classic' setting to use, Arthurian knights, Greek heroes, Middle Earth, Dark Age dragon-slaying heroes ... you know. But I'm not too sure - or I can't make up my mind.

It was Glorantha that got me into history and archaeology back in1984, anyway, so going back to the Near East is fitting. But is this 'alien' culture suitable for 4, 5 and 6 year olds? Where's the castles, the drawbridges, the goblins and knights in armour?

I keep thinking of a book I picked up when I first started working in a primary school. It's a book designed to be read by children at home and school as part of a progressive reading scheme. The same author has written hundreds of others in the series. For the most part they are inoffensive fairy stories, sometimes modern stories too. This one was set in Babylonia sometime after 580 BC (I would reckon, going on the illustrations...). It told the story of a boy who was sent on two initiation tests by the priest of the temple, he succeeded in both and outwitted the priest by learning the priest himself was the 'monster' in the final test.

Nice story, but the book didn't say explicitly that it was set in Babylon or anywhere else. It didn't mention a date or timeframe. The story just began, and the children who read it just accept that the young boy was going to the temple of the gods, that the priest wanted to test him. We aren't told which god, or what the aims of the tests were, or how they resonated with the mythic acts of the god.

So I was impressed. The book stuck in my mind as a way to roleplay historical periods or exotic settings with children. Start small. Make them children. Let the players learn naturally as the characters do.

What I like about 'early' periods like Babylonian times and Glorantha (or how I perceive it) is the paucity of material goods. Your only belongings can be a kilt and a waterskin. It was the lovely thing about Runequest the way you started as 'armed peasants' and tried to climb the ladder.

I wonder if I called pull off what Ian's doing in that kind of setting.

[Ian Absentia]

This thread's got me interested in using the Near East as a children's setting...

[...snip...]

It was Glorantha that got me into history and archaeology back in1984, anyway, so going back to the Near East is fitting. But is this 'alien' culture suitable for 4, 5 and 6 year olds? Where's the castles, the drawbridges, the goblins and knights in armour?In our case, we just fell into a Near East-ish setting by accident -- my son wanted a character from the forest/jungle, and I had a mild hankering to try out the Teshnos section of the Gloranthan map. As far as the alienness goes, my son is familiar with Kipling stories, the Hanuman and Ganesha myths, he's seen movies with Tibetan temples and monks, Chinese and Japanese palaces and castles, and his current sword-wielding hero is Li Mu Bai from Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. So to him it's not particularly alien, though I imagine he's still more familiar with European counterparts.

I think your reference to the Babylonian fairytale was more to point, though. I suspect that, with children, images and perceptions aren't as fixed as they are for adults -- if you describe something that differs from the European standard, they're largely receptive to the idea. The rules that they have for codifying and organising the new data that comes flying at them every day are less rigid. For them, I think it's all in the individual, situational descriptions, and not so much the categorical. For instance, I know that when I say to my son, "You see a castle," his response is going to be "What kind of castle?" and answers of "German Gothic" or "Feudal Japanese" aren't going to fly with him -- he wants and needs details of that specific castle.

So, I wouldn't be too concerned about throwing the "alien" at young kids -- I think they're particularly receptive to it. It also has the added benefit of being a venue for broadening a child's horizons -- it's a great way of sneaking in educational lessons. As Bill Cosby used to say at the beginning of every episode of Fat Albert and the Cosby Kids, "...and if you're not careful, you might learn something!"

!i!

[Malak]

A Dalek? Cripes- those scared the living bejesus out of me back when they were on the telly in the 80's. I had to hide behind the sofa whenever they appeared!
Beware -- they are coming back, Jan 05ish! Hide!

[mtferris]

Quote by: Mithras
so going back to the Near East is fitting. But is this 'alien' culture suitable for 4, 5 and 6 year olds? Where's the castles, the drawbridges, the goblins and knights in armour?

As far as near east flavor, I'm sure many children have heard (or seen) Aladdin, Ali Baba and the 40 thieves, and other tales from Arabian Nights. As long as you're well able to describe stuff, I think kids will go for it. I seem to remember not getting stuck in European 'tropes' of castle types, armour and the like until 8-10 years of age. YMMV of course

[Laughing Cow Cheese]

...
Here are my experiences with role-playing with my daughters.

* The seeds started when my oldest was 4 or 5. We'd always play together (yes, I had to bite the bullet and play Barbies many times
Perhaps most important, girls, like boys, want to play with things that are fun and can kick ass. The Powerpuff Girls are cute and can kick serious ass. Girls want to feel empowered and in control just as boys do.

-- Conall

Please adopt me. I so wish I'd had a Dad like you.

[Ian Absentia]

Good Lord. Almost six months later and this game has been on hiatus as everyone becomes busy with bigger fish to fry. Oh, and the lie that I'm not quite ready to pick up the adventure again because I don't have anything prepared, when in reality I was afraid that I just wasn't inspired enough.

Parents (and GMs): Don't lie to your kids. And don't sell yourselves short!

Well, as the flu sweeps through the Young household, both kids are tied down to the home fort, the videos have all been watched a couple times over, and we're all getting stir-crazy. And thanks in great part to the inspiration I've drawn from my play-by-post adventure (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=158630) (yes, I know guys, I should be posting replies right now :o), I said to my son, "Hey, should we pick up where we let Mevi off?", and I grabbed the book and the dice, and we just got down to it.

Here's an added bonus. My daughter, who is now 3-and-a-half years old (you may recall her from last summer -- "I'm a princess! I wear a pink dress!"), who had just gotten done vomitting the only meal she'd had for the day, who was staring at us like a zombie from the sofa, pricked up her ears as my son and I re-capped who Mevi was, what he could do, and what he was going to do now that he was on the mountain peak stalking the storm tiger. She slid off the sofa, disappeared to find herself a pencil and paper, picked up a die (the frosted clear one), and settled in on the living room floor with us. She's matured a lot in the last six months, and she was into it. Agreeing to take the role of Ruihella, her only question was, "Does she wear a dress?" I showed her the robes and pants that Jen Yu wears in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, suggested that they were yellow and red in color, mentioned the rose-gold sunburst medallion at her throat, and my daughter was fine with it.

So here's what happened...

Mevi leapt from the clouds to the mountain's peak, and proceeded to use the hunter's skill he learned from his father to track the storm tiger. It wasn't easy, but he managed it. However, the storm tiger was waiting in hiding to ambush our young hero. What the tiger didn't count on was rolling a natural 20 and fumbling his ambush. Even masteries didn't keep Mevi from scoring a marginal victory -- Mevi was alerted to something wrong. So, taking a cue from the character Haku in Spirited Away, my son declared a new magical power, picking up a pinch of snow and blowing it from his fingertips in the storm tiger's direction, succeeding in creating a disorienting swirl of cloud and ice. In the confusion, the tiger stumbled and Ruihella got away, while Mevi readied and loosed a stone from his sling. The slingstone connected with the tiger's front leg, causing him to go lame for at least the time being.

Given the break from the threat of the storm tiger, my son had Mevi try to hurry Ruihella away and off the mountaintop. My daughter had other ideas, though. Grabbing Mevi's bow, Ruihella nocked an arrow, let loose and pinned the tiger's other front leg. Not to be outdone (and trying to cover for Ruihella's foolhardy bravery), Mevi slung another stone, beaning the tiger in the head. At this point I expected our heroes to beat a hasty escape, but my daughter was just beginning to get the hang of rolling the dice. Ruihella nocked another arrow and declared that she was aiming for the tiger's eyes.

A brief aside. I believe it's a myth that girls are, by nature, gentle and soft and deferent. I recall being mildly shocked one day, visiting my son's classroom, and watching two children -- a boy and a girl -- playing at pirates off in the corner. The boy declared, "Yay! We caught the pirates! Now, let's tie them up!", and the girl added gleefully, "Yeah! And let's chop their fingers off!" :eek: The lesson I learned that day: Girls will get down to business when the situation merits it. So, back to our story, Ruihella had been carried off by the storm tiger, and now she was taking a bead on his fucking eyes.

Archery is Ruihella's best skill, and my daughter proceeded to roll amazingly well. Bumping up with a mastery, while the tiger rolled unfortunately poorly, Ruihella plugged him in the eye. At this point, Mevi took to higher ground to get a better shot at the tiger (don't ask me -- it didn't make much sense at the time, but my son's not a seasoned tactician) and break one of its other legs, while my daughter declared that Ruihella plugs the storm tiger in the other eye...and rolls well enough to do just that!

At this point, I realised that a combat like this wasn't playing out properly with simple contests. Strictly speaking, the first simple contest should have beein the only one, resulting in a minor victory and a broken foreleg on the tiger. However, my son and daughter wanted to keep going at it, so I sort of fudged together a rough extended contest. Seeing that they're not ready for AP bidding yet, I'm going to figure out if my simplified system (which bears a troubling resemblance to hit points -- may God have mercy on my soul) will work in future situations like this.

Having slain the storm tiger, Mevi rolled exceptionally well on his skinning ability and took the exquisite hide from the beast. Then, with the hide strapped to his back, he lead Ruihella to the cliff's edge, and hand-in-hand they leapt downward from cloud to cloud until they got to the ground at the caravan. With the skin as a trophy, the two were hailed as heroes and honored with song and dance at a feast in camp that evening. The look of pride and excitement on my kids' faces was like treasure to me. My son was particularly happy, as he intended for Mevi to bring the skin home to his father to repay the loss of the hides at the beginning of the adventure. Good memory this one has.

From there, the caravan made it's way to Gio on the Teshnan coast. Some of the porters on caravan talked Mevi into letting them cure the hide and make a gift to him and Ruihella. Once in Gio, they presented the two of them with beautiful storm tiger skin coats, Mevi's with the paws and top of the head still in place (my own little Harrek...sort of). Again, my kids were thrilled, and I'll allow a tidy augment to Mevi's Cloup Leaping ability while he wears his. In Gio itself, I regaled them with descriptions of the sights and sounds of the bustling, urban port, with its exotic. Together, Mevi and Ruihella explored the marketplace, trying to catch jewel-eyed geckos from sandstone walls, and Mevi settled on buying a prehensile chameleon as a pet. I left them there, their caravan camped to one side of the market, while the captain of the guards seeks passage on a ship bound for Corflu. Night falls, and the caravan guards vigilantly set watch against opportunistic thieves....

!i!

[Mac Logo]

This just gets better and better! It's amazing how proactive your daughter has become - no more pretty princess in pink, but Jen Yu! I almost felt sorry for the Tiger! I loved your son's "Haku" moment, that was truly inspired.

Thanks for sharing these precious moments with us Ian. I think this is The best [Actual Play] thread evar!

Graeme

[MylesC]

Excellent adventures! I'm delighted to hear that your daughter is blossoming into a fine roleplayer. My own daughter is 2, so it won't be too long before I start my campaign of indoctrination.

Kudos to all three of you.

Myles

[Imperator]

Thanks for sharing these precious moments with us Ian. I think this is The best [Actual Play] thread evar!

Graeme

Word. I'd love to see this game. May I teach my sons and daughters to be as easily as you do. Congratulations, Ian.

[alexandria2000]

CUTE!

It is the best Actual Play ever. :)

[Snoopy]

Just found the thread. Defintely the best Actual Play EVAR.

EVAR EVAR

[Ghola]

Just found the thread. Defintely the best Actual Play EVAR.

EVAR EVAR

This bears repeating yet again.

[castiglione]

This is really cute and an excellent actual play.

One thing made me laugh:

"This was a fun example of an introduction to the strangeness of Glorantha, as my son had assumed the giant lizard was just a monster with no sort of legal rights."

This kind of made me think of a "hook" for a scenario which takes place in the background of a civil law-suit between an orc and party of "adventurers". The orc is the sole survivor of a "dungeon" that the party had raided and now seeks restitution for "physical and emotional anguish" of losing all of family and friends as well as the treasure that was plundered. The PC's are hired by lawyers representing the orc, who want them to gather evidence of the other party's guilt. Meanwhile, the party that the orc is suing have hired a group of NPC's to prove their innocence.

[Geburah]

And thanks in great part to the inspiration I've drawn from my play-by-post adventure (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=158630) (yes, I know guys, I should be posting replies right now :o), I said to my son, "Hey, should we pick up where we let Mevi off?", and I grabbed the book and the dice, and we just got down to it.

Wow, I'm so glad you started that game up again! :D Hearing about it makes the slight extra wait for PbP replies entirely worthwhile, so have no worries.

Really like the "Haku" trick. And your son came up with that spontaneously? If so: :cool:. In fact, I wish I'd had my character take the Cloud of Feathers feat as a common magic ability, so he could do the same!

Defintely the best Actual Play EVAR.

EVAR EVAR

Yup, as Ghola said, it bears repeating. :)

[Ian Absentia]

Thanks for the kudos, everyone. It's a lot of fun to share what happens with me and the monkeys, and I'm glad that others enjoy the story. Let me address a few topics here.

Regarding the six-month delay, I have to be honest and admit that it mostly had to do with a combination of overweening perfectionism and more than a little bit of stage fright. In otherwords, I was afraid that I hadn't worked everything out in intricate detail and didn't know where to take the adventure. It's a conundrum I think most GMs face, and I believe it's a false problem. Especially with my kids, they're thrilled with just about anything I throw their way, and they also did a great job of taking the reins themselves. Basically, block out a framework, then just get in there and wing it.

I find that what works best with my son, and probably my daughter too, is to railroad them from scene to scene, then let them take over situationally. Curiously, it really is a lot like taking the railroad -- the train delivers them from one locale to another, then they get out and take in the sights before getting back on again. They seem to enjoy it, and if they ever tell me where they want to go, then, by Jove, we'll take another train there.

About my daughter and her apparent transformation from Princess Barbie to Jen Yu -- don't be fooled. Her favorite color is still pink and we just watched the wretched Barbie as The Princess and the Pauper again this morning -- her current favorite. She's a first-class, dress-wearing girlie-girl in spite of our best efforts to make a tomboy out of her. Still, she's becoming increasingly complex over the months (as one would expect), her verbal skills are exploding, and she's a fan of Ziang Ziyi. I try to explain to her that in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon Shu Lien is the superior martial artist to Jen Yu, and that Jen Yu relies on the Green Destiny as a crutch, but my little girl is more impressed by the aristocratic wardrobe. Go figure.

[Another aside: Watching Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon again a couple of times last weekend, I had a "HeroQuest Moment". The Green Destiny is a magical item held in common by both Li Mu Bai and Jen Yu. However, their use of the sword is significantly different. While both Li Mu Bai and Jen Yu and surpassingly excellent martial artists, Li Mu Bai uses the sword as an augment to his personal ability rating, while Jen Yu uses the sword as an ability and augments it with her personal abilities. In actual practice, this seems inconsequential, but the way that it is portrayed in the story is of great significance. Li Mu Bai is the superior martial artist who is attempting to transcend the destiny that the sword represents, and therefore relies on his own abilities. Jen Yu seeks a shortcut to infamy and surrenders herself to the sword's destiny. I wonder, if you gave two similar HeroQuest characters the same magical sword, if the players would portray the situation similarly.]

Finally, the Haku maneuver. My son has been enamored with that image ever since he saw a preview for Spirited Away on a video last year. Interestingly, I don't think he really cared what the magical ability actually did, he just wanted the mental image of Mevi doing the same thing. It also corresponds well to a number of other Air and Movement rune characteristics I've been assigning to Mevi. In any case, it's a cool and not-terribly-powerful ability (unlike Cloud Leaping!), and it spiced up the action nicely.

More soon...I hope.

!i!

[Greg 1]

Brilliant thread! I am absolutely into this story. :-)

[Ian Absentia]

Here's where we're at right now. Last night, Mevi and Ruihella -- along with select members of their caravan -- have taken passage aboard a Kralorelan merchant junk, heading westward from Teshnos to Corflu. Within the first few days of travel, the ship came across a large collection of seagoing Sofali home-rafts (in Glorantha, the Sofali are a group of primitive shapechangers who can assume the form of turtles, including sea turtles -- I've joyfully ripped almost wholecloth from Ursula K. LeGuin's The Farthest Shore -- they're the Children of the Open Sea). The ship's master has moored the ship to the raft town to trade, and my kids' characters have gone aboard the rafts to make a few fast friends. They've been enjoying the experience and the mystery of simple events thus far -- diving for oysters and pocketing a pearl or two, learning that the Sofali can sometimes take turtle form, etc. In fact, a mystery has begun to surface -- a Sofali girl, while explaining that she can take the form of an animal, seemed confused that Mevi couldn't do so as well. She didn't expect it of Ruihella, just of Mevi. Curious! ;) Anyway. my children have expressed a desire to stay on with these people for a while.

Now, this is where you come in, good readers. Why stay? What can I -- what should I -- do during their stay with the Sofali? The first best rule of GMing is to give your players what they want (even if they don't yet know they want it!), so my instin