[necro] KOTOR: I killed Juhani?

[Ian ORourke]

The Jedi in the Grove on Dantooine - I killed her, it seemed to be the only option after five minutes of trying different routes.

But I'm hearing a rumour she can be a party member?

[Curt]

The Jedi in the Grove on Dantooine - I killed her, it seemed to be the only option after five minutes of trying different routes.

But I'm hearing a rumour she can be a party member?

Ayup.

If you walk the path of the non-judgmental weenie, you can indeed add her to the party. For us Darksiders it is just easier to wipe out a potential rival early.

Ha! Hahahahahahahahahahahahahha!(Wheeze) Hahahahaahahaha!

[Ceti]

When I played, she attacked me, but at a point during the fight, the game switched into dialogue mode and I managed to talked her into turning herself in. Later on, I met her at HQ and she decided to join my party.

I don't remember the specifics fo the dialogue though.

[Jais]

Patience, grasshoppah.

Exhaust all dialogue options before deciding to kill her.

[Epoch]

You also need a decent Persuade score.

[Jais]

You also need a decent Persuade score.

Well that's a given, but even my Soldier/Guardian with zero points invested in it was up to the task.

[Andy K]

I ran that bitch through like a forklift through a giant marshmallow.

Then some cunt comes screaming at me, "Oh I KNEW her, she was GOOD inside blah blah blah." Yeah whatever, just cause you were grinding lesbo Jedi muff with a hottie doesn't make her redeemable. _I_ am the judge and executioner.

I drew my lightsaber to kill that cunt, but she ran away before I could see what she had for dinner.

-Andy

[shodan]

I drew my lightsaber to kill that cunt, but she ran away before I could see what she had for dinner.

-Andy

Patience, young Sith. Focus your anger. Let your hatred grow.

You'll find her again. :)

[Front Toward Everybody]

Patience, young Sith. Focus your anger. Let your hatred grow.

You'll find her again. :)

Actually, you do, don't you?

KOTOR is pretty cool that way.

[Jais]

Actually, you do, don't you?

KOTOR is pretty cool that way.

However, it's not so cool in the way that you can't kill anyone you please.

[Front Toward Everybody]

However, it's not so cool in the way that you can't kill anyone you please.

Also, the NPC party members cockblock your early attempts at darksiderness.

PC: "Give me all of your money and get out of my face or I will kill you."

Carth: "Whoah, hey, my friend is a little out of it. What he really meant to say is that we'd love to help you with your sub-quest."

PC: Carth Onnassi, I am going to kill you to pieces.

[Ghola]

However, it's not so cool in the way that you can't kill anyone you please.

No, but you can urge a few of them toward the Dark Side.

Nurture the righteous anger former slaves until they thirst for murder. Crush the childish dreams of the street urchin and turn her away from her former "adoptive family." Unlock the true potential of a creature that lives only to kill.

If there had been more of this KotOR would have been one of the best games ever.

[Jais]

If there had been more of this KotOR would have been one of the best games ever.

Yeah, instead it goes...

A. [I would like to help this being]

B. [I would like to ignore this being, politely]

C. [I would like to insult this being/Kill the sucker and tap-dance on his guts]

[Ian ORourke]

We battled furiously, which you have little choice in doing, and then she gives in when she realises your Jedi-fu is more powerful than hers. I tried every nice-guy approach I could, but could never pass the Persuade test, so despite my Light Side leanings I was forced to cut her up.

Despite all my efforts I then had some Jedi woman slag me off and run off in a mood. Does she become back later as some Dark Jedi badass or something thirsting for revenge?

Pitty. Never got a Dark Side point though (for killing her in the Grove).

I assume I don't need her sorry ass to complete, so I may just continue.
-

[Epoch]

I assume I don't need her sorry ass to complete, so I may just continue.
-

You don't need her, no.

Whether you should <i>want</i> her basically depends on how much Bastilla annoys you. Bastilla annoys the hell out of me, so Juhanni is a must-have, in my opinion, 'cause that means I can put Juhanni in the party when I need a beat-stick or a healer, and I can leave Whiny McWhinepants in the spaceship.

[Jais]

I assume I don't need her sorry ass to complete, so I may just continue.
-

That's right my friend. While it's nice to have a jumpin' Jedi Guardian in your arsenal, the character Juhani is as boring and annoying as they come. While all your ship-mates have issues in some way or another, Juhani has *issues*. Her little corner in the ship got nicknamed the "Shrink couch".

[Ian ORourke]

I quite like Bastilla - so I'm obviously okay then :)

[Front Toward Everybody]

You don't need her, no.

Whether you should <i>want</i> her basically depends on how much Bastilla annoys you. Bastilla annoys the hell out of me, so Juhanni is a must-have, in my opinion, 'cause that means I can put Juhanni in the party when I need a beat-stick or a healer, and I can leave Whiny McWhinepants in the spaceship.

The game does give you the option of sweet talking and grudge-fucking Bastilla about mid-game.

[Jais]

You don't need her, no.

Whether you should <i>want</i> her basically depends on how much Bastilla annoys you. Bastilla annoys the hell out of me

Come on, while Bastila can whine with the best Emo punks out there about her ruined childhood and how hard it was to be the best Jedi of the class, it is whine with British flavour :)

Besides, she's hot. Something that Juhani definately cannot claim to be.

[Jais]

The game does give you the option of sweet talking and grudge-fucking Bastilla about mid-game.

Comparing Bastila and Carth from KOTOR and Arie, Jaheira and that Drow vixen from Baldur's Gate 2, they all seem to be really fucked in the head and will let you hit on them in return for listening to their rants.

Arie was especially obnoxious - she invites you to bed after you've sworn that Jaheira means nothing to you (having both of these girls in the party meant death through bitch-fight suffocation), then immediately gets second thoughts and will either let you date-rape her (upon which she then flees the party, naturally enough), or step aside and do the gentlemanly thing and not talk to her for the rest of the game. Grrrrrrr. I heard it got better in Throne of Baal, though.

Is the dialogue writer from Bioware just letting us suffer through his malicious sense of humour, or does he not have a clue that women who need rescuing so badly are not really that attractive?

[Epoch]

Come on, while Bastila can whine with the best Emo punks out there about her ruined childhood and how hard it was to be the best Jedi of the class, it is whine with British flavour :)

Besides, she's hot. Something that Juhani definately cannot claim to be.

Her hotness does nothing for me, and even less for my character, who was female. At least Juhanni could theoretically offer to put out. ;P

[Jais]

Her hotness does nothing for me, and even less for my character, who was female. At least Juhanni could theoretically offer to put out. ;P

Yeah, about that - how was it ever really concluded that Juhani might for all intents and purposes be... gay?

Something to do with her mentor? Or is it just that through all your conversation options with her, there's not a single "You must have had it horribly, horribly bad and I'd like some of that Feline ass, please."?

[Epoch]

Yeah, about that - how was it ever really concluded that Juhani might for all intents and purposes be... gay?

I'm told that you can get her to out-and-out confess her love for you, regardless of what sex your character is. I didn't do it, personally, not having had much interest in her backstory. I dunno, maybe it's platonic love.

The only character I think I got all the way through the backstory of was HK. It helps that he gets power-ups along the way.

[jiggaxp]

try all options

[Peter LaCara]

I'm told that you can get her to out-and-out confess her love for you, regardless of what sex your character is. I didn't do it, personally, not having had much interest in her backstory. I dunno, maybe it's platonic love.

The only character I think I got all the way through the backstory of was HK. It helps that he gets power-ups along the way.I can attest that this is true. She confesses her desire to get in your robes right before you go up to the Death Sta.... I mean Star Forge.

And I actually liked Juhani as a character. She's definately got *issues*, though. I'm pretty sure I've worked through every character's backstory but Canderous', who is really the only character I didn't care about at all. Hell, I even kinda liked Mission.

As to leading your companions down the Dark Path with you, I hear that's going to be one of the spiffy new features in KOTOR 2. Of course I am an upstanding Knight of the Republic, a light burning in the darkness, keeping the Galaxy safe from the depredations of the Sith menace.

[Mikko Kauppinen]

Juhani is a man's name in Finland, which makes this thread kind of amusing for me. :) Also, why the ******* ******* ****' did they have to invent Teräs Käsi for the SW universe (which is Finnish, means Steel Hand, oh and the words should be written together, so it's incorrect Finnish to boot)? I suppose the ancient Finns came from a galaxy far, far away.

Rant over.

[Rikimaru]

As to leading your companions down the Dark Path with you, I hear that's going to be one of the spiffy new features in KOTOR 2. Of course I am an upstanding Knight of the Republic, a light burning in the darkness, keeping the Galaxy safe from the depredations of the Sith menace.
That's alright - for every one of you there's one of us who draw those around us into our wake of death and destruction, forcing them to become even bigger bastards than we are to survive.

So it all balances out in the end really. :)

[darktalon]

Juhani is a man's name in Finland, which makes this thread kind of amusing for me. :) Also, why the ******* ******* ****' did they have to invent Teräs Käsi for the SW universe (which is Finnish, means Steel Hand, oh and the words should be written together, so it's incorrect Finnish to boot)? I suppose the ancient Finns came from a galaxy far, far away.

It's a long-standing tradition in fantasy to use real-world languages as sources for names. Sometimes with hilarious results - see my sig.

cockblock

This is a great word that I shall endeavour to use more. :D

[Fade]

You can redeem Juhani without needing any points in Persuade, you just need to give the right responses in the second dialogue, (not the ones that say "[Persuade] Blah")

[Monkey to the Fleet Savant]

Juhani is a man's name in Finland, which makes this thread kind of amusing for me. :) Also, why the ******* ******* ****' did they have to invent Teräs Käsi for the SW universe (which is Finnish, means Steel Hand, oh and the words should be written together, so it's incorrect Finnish to boot)? I suppose the ancient Finns came from a galaxy far, far away.

Rant over.

Well, atlleast old Teräs Käsi isn't very canonical. Since it showed up is a Star Wars Beat'em'up. How it made it's way to S'Wars d20 is beyond me however.

[Bloodcat]

Teras Kasi is also in Star Wars Galaxies too.

Anyhow, I played a good gal through KOTOR, an attractive dark goddess who as she went more and more to the side of justice seemed to get the cutest little smirk..

I usually teamed with Carth and Zalbaar, and sometimes Jolee because he was a cranky old man who could kick ass.

I wasn't a perfect goodie goodie, but I came close.

I still remember a friend was watching me play and didn't understand why I had a blue and red lightsaber. Nor did he get it when I said it was a statement on the duality of man.

I mean, FULL METAL JACKET!

No wonder I don't hang out with that guy anymore...

[Acheron]

I thought Teras Kasi first showed up in a throwaway line (Guri talking about some potential employees of Black Sun, IIRC) in Shadows of the Empire, then was turned into the basis for a terrible Star Wars fighting game.

[Modi]

And I actually liked Juhani as a character. She's definately got *issues*, though. I'm pretty sure I've worked through every character's backstory but Canderous', who is really the only character I didn't care about at all. Hell, I even kinda liked Mission.



I have to say, I think you missed out. Canderous's war stories are quite entertaining. I thought his backstory was probably the second best of all the party members.

I never did use him in a fight, but he was fun to talk too.

[Vappour]

Juhani can be an interesting and helpful member of your crew. She also has an interesting sidequest which includes a Twi'lek who sounds like a peckerwood. To bring her back to the Light Side in the grove, first ask why she attacked you, then tell her that you only want to talk. After these preliminaries, simply answer her dialog with lines that include words from the Jedi Code or which refer to the meaning of the Code. You will not go wrong -- assuming you want her in your group. DO NOT say that she's a "beautiful young woman (ugh!)" or ask why she's tainting (stinking up) the grove! She's a Jedi Guardian who will eventually get to Level 20 and will help a lot (even if it's only healing). Too bad about that damn accent, though. She'll be your most loyal fighting companion unless you decide to go Dark Side with Bastila in the temple. (I remember one fight where both Jolee and I were down and out, but she remained standing and saved the day against a Rancor -- after I took control).


Vappour

[atholbrose]

You can redeem Juhani without needing any points in Persuade, you just need to give the right responses in the second dialogue, (not the ones that say "[Persuade] Blah")
And you can talk to her again and again and again until you get it right.

[Vappour]

I liked Canderous too. Especially since everything he said was qualified by the fact that he came from culture that glorifies war and warriors. Something like an Ancient Roman Legionaire. I used him a lot on Koriban, especially after I upgraded his cannon to something like 4-14 damage. I also took him and HK any place I wanted to do something not so nice without getting a lecture -- or at least a comment re my behavior. (They were the only two that never passed judgment).

Vappour

[Front Toward Everybody]

I liked Canderous too. Especially since everything he said was qualified by the fact that he came from culture that glorifies war and warriors. Something like an Ancient Roman Legionaire. I used him a lot on Koriban, especially after I upgraded his cannon to something like 4-14 damage. I also took him and HK any place I wanted to do something not so nice without getting a lecture -- or at least a comment re my behavior. (They were the only two that never passed judgment).

Vappour

Canderous basically called me a pussy a few times. He can still be judgemental, just not the same way as Carth and Bastilla.

[Jais]

I loved Candy. Give him two swords and train him to use them, and he'll kick so much butt even your Jedi SuperWhopper won't be a match. I think I got Canderous up to around 200 HP's. When the rest of the party was down in a battle, Candy would just keep on fighting, and fighting, and fighting.

He's a fucking tank. His damage is way on par with pansy lightsabers with the right blades and strength enhancements, plus you can give him power armour that he'll gladly prance around in.

His war-stories are quite cool, too - especially when he starts talking smack to Carth.

[Vappour]

Andrew -- I don't mind being called a pussy by Canderous. Compared to his character, I problably am; that is, I don't think he's a liar so he's earned the right. It's the "I hate it when you act this way (Bastila)", or "That was uncalled for (Carth)" kind of reaction that I dislike so much. I think, especially after I stood by Canderous against Jagi (pathetic fight) and fought with him against assorted Mandalorian "scum", we became as friendly as possible under the circumstances. His finding out the truth about my identity kind of ruined things (turned it into hero worship). His was the ONLY quest I absolutely was unable to put into the completed column (for some reason). I really did like and respect this character (especially the way he essentially called Bastila incompetent).

Vappour

[Front Toward Everybody]

Don't get me wrong, I love the guy.

Everyone else is like "Help me sort out my past and work through my personal issues."

Canderous is like "Howabout I tell you a story about WAR, you Nancy?!"

Just saying he can be judgemental. :)

[Vappour]

Jais -- You know, I never bothered to use Canderous for close in work. I kept upgrading his blaster and related skills (plus conditioning) and only used him for fire support/grenadier. I'll have to see what he can do with melee weapons next time I play. It's just that ever since I met him in Taris, I was used to seeing him with the damn cannon... It was almost like it was part of him.

Vappour

[Jais]

It's just that ever since I met him in Taris, I was used to seeing him with the damn cannon... It was almost like it was part of him.

Exactly, and I did the same misjudging at first. Guns in this game can go take a hike because they are nothing compared to melee work.

Canderous may look like all he's able to do is shoot stuff up, but that's fortunately not true. I like to think of myself as a pretty good character-tweaker (or power-player) but even my twinked-out Scoundrel2/Consular18 couldn't hold a candle to Canderous in the end. He's that vicious with two swords. While my Jedi could do all sorts of nifty spells that would immobilize the enemy and so forth, I was forced to admit that Candyman was my man of choice when it came to reliability. The guy's got hitpoints like Rambo's got M60 ammo and while he'd sometimes be blasted well and good by the Dark Jedi's, he'd always - always be the last man standing if my party went down. And he'd just as frequently save my butt.

On my second run through, I used the Dark side consular mentioned above, Canderous and HK47 (equipped with a nasty blaster I found somewhere). Playing Dark Side is so much more fun when your henchman actually encourage you, give you tips and bully people along with you. HK47 was in it mostly for fun, but he too is pretty vicious once you unlock all his abilities (Canderous and HK could both regenerate, BTW).

[Vappour]

Thanks for the advice. I'm definitely going to try this with Canderous. I should have picked it up before. All the Mandalorians we fought used melee weapons. I guess it's the fact he doesn't have any feats in that area in the beginning. Sounds like I missed a lot of fun. Kotor 2 is due out December 6. You can already prepurchase it, believe it or not.

Vappour

[Mostlyjoe]

Ah, but you can TURN the Wookie and the Fallen Jedi. Go Darkside and use Force Pursuade jacked all the way up. Mwahahaha!

[Vappour]

Turn the Wookie to DS! Now that sounds like real fun. Especially if it's possible before going to Kashyyyk.

Vappour

[tk421]

Yeah, Canderous is a blast (ha!).

I love his war stories, particularly the one deep in the set about in the War when he raped a corpse.



What?

[Vappour]

"Raping a corpse"??? How very bizarre (if not impossible).

[Ghola]

Exactly, and I did the same misjudging at first. Guns in this game can go take a hike because they are nothing compared to melee work.

Canderous may look like all he's able to do is shoot stuff up, but that's fortunately not true. I like to think of myself as a pretty good character-tweaker (or power-player) but even my twinked-out Scoundrel2/Consular18 couldn't hold a candle to Canderous in the end. He's that vicious with two swords. While my Jedi could do all sorts of nifty spells that would immobilize the enemy and so forth, I was forced to admit that Candyman was my man of choice when it came to reliability. The guy's got hitpoints like Rambo's got M60 ammo and while he'd sometimes be blasted well and good by the Dark Jedi's, he'd always - always be the last man standing if my party went down. And he'd just as frequently save my butt.

On my second run through, I used the Dark side consular mentioned above, Canderous and HK47 (equipped with a nasty blaster I found somewhere). Playing Dark Side is so much more fun when your henchman actually encourage you, give you tips and bully people along with you. HK47 was in it mostly for fun, but he too is pretty vicious once you unlock all his abilities (Canderous and HK could both regenerate, BTW).

In addition Canderous gets an impressive amount of vitality once you load him up with Toughness - and he has a damage reduction on top of regen.

Though the clear winner in vitality is Big Z with maximized Toughness and the +4 Con implant. It's truly sickening. :)

[Vappour]

I have a question for all you DS experts. If you had an LS character and could only give him ONE DS power, which one would you choose? I'm drawing upon your experience to save me some research. Specifically, which DS power coming from a Jedi would be most effective (and surprising) against a Sith/Dark Jedi? (At my level, I can only afford to go second tier).

Vappour

[Gemini]

However, it's not so cool in the way that you can't kill anyone you please.

Maybe not, but it's lots of fun to wander through bars and use evil force powers to make people tremble in fear....

[Ghola]

I have a question for all you DS experts. If you had an LS character and could only give him ONE DS power, which one would you choose? I'm drawing upon your experience to save me some research. Specifically, which DS power coming from a Jedi would be most effective (and surprising) against a Sith/Dark Jedi? (At my level, I can only afford to go second tier).

Vappour

You really need to provide more detail about your character: classes/levels, powers you already use, favored combat style (2 lightsabers, sneak attacks, etc.) before anyone can be of much help. )My choice would have been Plague but you stated second tier power.)

You should also bear in mind that the cost adjustment for a LS character using Dark powers can be pretty steep.

[Vappour]

Thanks for the reply. I'm a Level 4 Scout/Level 10 Sentinel who's been pretty much accepting the "recommended" LS powers at each level-up. I know that there's a significant cost penalty when LS characters use DS powers. I'd just like to know if it's even worth "investing" in something like lightning or life-drain before it's too late (just for the entertainment/surprise value).

Vappour

[DM with a vengeance]

There are three good DS power chains for a light Jedi.

Force Lightning is good at frying toons of mooks, which I never found to be a problem, Choke/Kill is good at taking down tough bosses, and the Poison chain is hard to save aganst, and makes them easier to take with force powers and melee.

Over all, I'd recommend going for Kill. If you have decent Wis and Cha mods, you can get a pretty good DC, and it'll make a lot of tough baddies like Mandalorians, Rancors, and Karatura much easier.

[Fade]

If you want to use Dark Side powers, I would recomend Jolee Bindo. He's theoretically neutral (though he's really not) so he doesn't get charged extra, and being a Consular he's good at force powers.

[Elbast]

Yeah, instead it goes...

A. [I would like to help this being]

B. [I would like to ignore this being, politely]

C. [I would like to insult this being/Kill the sucker and tap-dance on his guts]
Just like every other CRPG dialog tree I've ever come across.

[Ian ORourke]

Still enjoying the game, I just hope I don't hit the same point that I usually hit - I come to the ultimate bad guy at the end and my characters are not powerful enough :)

[Elbast]

Still enjoying the game, I just hope I don't hit the same point that I usually hit - I come to the ultimate bad guy at the end and my characters are not powerful enough :)
I was kinda enjoying it, too... a lot more than I thought I would (not being a huge Star Wars or Sci-fi fan, and not having much patience for solo CRPGs any more).

Then I got to a point, saved and just haven't been back since. I didn't get fed up, or bored, and it's only been about a week or so but... its not calling me back as it was at first.

[Fade]

Still enjoying the game, I just hope I don't hit the same point that I usually hit - I come to the ultimate bad guy at the end and my characters are not powerful enough :)

All I can offer is that by the end of the game you should have at least one offensive power - even Throw Lightsaber lvl1 is enough, but you'll want some way of attacking with the Force.

[Black Isis]

Disable Droid is good enough for the final battle, along with things like Force Speed and other handy things.

[Ghola]

Thanks for the reply. I'm a Level 4 Scout/Level 10 Sentinel who's been pretty much accepting the "recommended" LS powers at each level-up. I know that there's a significant cost penalty when LS characters use DS powers. I'd just like to know if it's even worth "investing" in something like lightning or life-drain before it's too late (just for the entertainment/surprise value).

Vappour

I would echo DM on the Kill tree and Posion trees, but you won't get the really good powers for those if you keep to your 2nd tier idea. Plague affects Malak because even he can't make a DC 100 saving throw.

Sentinels don't get many powers iirc, and if you've made it this far I wouldn't suggest any DS powers unless you can go all the way to the end of a tree. I'd recommend Death Field. It only has one prereq (Drain) and its handy once you get to the end - as it heals you and hurts the swarms of Dark Jedi you'll face. You can't get Death Field until 18th level though.

Fade is also correct that you can give Jolee any darkside powers you like - as a consular he gets tons of powers anyway. I'd suggest loading him up with any dark powers that you think look cool. I always do, and I never regret it. Once Jolee works everybody over with Horror and Lightning combat becomes a breeze.

[stove]

Still enjoying the game, I just hope I don't hit the same point that I usually hit - I come to the ultimate bad guy at the end and my characters are not powerful enough :)

A word of warning - the last guy is hard on a scale pretty much unequaled in the game. My not-terribly-tweaked not-terribly-combat character walked all over most of the game and had to do, um, rather un-star-wars-like things to beat the last guy.
As others have said, some kind of ranged attack is helpful.

[Peter LaCara]

Still enjoying the game, I just hope I don't hit the same point that I usually hit - I come to the ultimate bad guy at the end and my characters are not powerful enough :)
Well, keep in mind that this is d20, so you'll have a level cap of 20. Your main character will probably be at or right about 20th level by the time you get to the final location (I don't know where you are in the game, so I won't give any spoilers), and the rest of your characters will probably be at around 18th or 19th level, and the swarms and swarms of Dark Jedi you have to fight your way through at the end pretty much guarantee that you'll all be maxed out by the end of the game. So don't worry about that. The last fight is more about using different tactics than you've used for the rest of the game. (Although I disagree that it's un-Star Wars like. Luke spends most of the end of RotJ hiding from Vader and only facing him at the end.)

[Li of Orchid]

In addition Canderous gets an impressive amount of vitality once you load him up with Toughness - and he has a damage reduction on top of regen.

Though the clear winner in vitality is Big Z with maximized Toughness and the +4 Con implant. It's truly sickening. :)

Unforunately, since Big Z can't wear armor, you can't get his defense higher than about 15, and that's if you load him up with Dex enhancing items and forget about that +4 Con implant. So despite his potentially higher vitality, Zaalbar is quite inferior to Canderous because he gets hit a lot more often - he also doesn't regenerate. You know that Canderous' regen rate seems to improve with his Con, too? At least, that what it looks like to me.

[pillarofautumn]

A word of warning - the last guy is hard on a scale pretty much unequaled in the game. My not-terribly-tweaked not-terribly-combat character walked all over most of the game and had to do, um, rather un-star-wars-like things to beat the last guy.
As others have said, some kind of ranged attack is helpful.

Ditto, when it came to the last bad guy (why don't we just say his name - it's pretty dang predictable who the last guy is).

My Scoundrel/Consular was not an ideal build (I could not do anything to the, um, batteries, that the big bad guy had stored up because of my build... I didn't read any spoilerz, so I was blind). And my dude was crap against the big bad guy in melee combat.

HOWEVER, I still beat the big bad guy, even though the big bad guy helped himself to ALL of his "batteries".

Just making invisible in case it's spoilerish...

See, I had stored up a HUGE supply of mines by collecting them throughout the game as they popped up, largely thanks to Mission & my main character who had massive Demolition skills. (There are mines EVERYWHERE in the game... now imagine if you had ALL of those mines in your inventory, and you never used them nor sold them at all throughout the game.)

So with Force Speed and a virtually endless supply of mines, Malak eventually killed himself by blindly walking towards my character. How's that for un-Jedi-like?

[Vappour]

pillar -- the trick for me was NOT to go toe-to-toe with Malak -- you can't win. Hit him a few times with your Master Flurry/Master Critical Strike combinations and then quickly break off combat. Use Knight Speed to run around the room (why do you think it's so big and round in the first place?), destroy his "batteries" with "destroy droid" or whatever. Then keep running, build your health back up (packs or heal), use plenty of drugs. and attack only at YOUR convenience. Get in a few good hits (until your health begins to go down) and start again. After you destroy the Jedi batteries, things will end pretty quickly (don't forget to throw that lightsaber too -- he sure does!).

Vappour

[Ghola]

Unforunately, since Big Z can't wear armor, you can't get his defense higher than about 15, and that's if you load him up with Dex enhancing items and forget about that +4 Con implant. So despite his potentially higher vitality, Zaalbar is quite inferior to Canderous because he gets hit a lot more often - he also doesn't regenerate. You know that Canderous' regen rate seems to improve with his Con, too? At least, that what it looks like to me.

Oh, no argument there. I was just impressed at how much vitality Z could crank out.. especially since he isn't a soldier. And although Canderous is definitely superior in combat I find Z is a good generalist - a meat shield who can also defuse mines and such. Plus he rarely speaks or complains which is a rarity in that group. Those qualities moved me to use Big Z constantly in my first game until I started picking up Jedi.

[pillarofautumn]

pillar -- the trick for me was NOT to go toe-to-toe with Malak -- you can't win. Hit him a few times with your Master Flurry/Master Critical Strike combinations and then quickly break off combat. Use Knight Speed to run around the room (why do you think it's so big and round in the first place?), destroy his "batteries" with "destroy droid" or whatever. Then keep running, build your health back up (packs or heal), use plenty of drugs. and attack only at YOUR convenience. Get in a few good hits (until your health begins to go down) and start again. After you destroy the Jedi batteries, things will end pretty quickly (don't forget to throw that lightsaber too -- he sure does!).

Vappour

I DID beat Malak. I did run around the room to my advantage, but I couldn't destroy the batteries (I'm trying not to describe what they are because I think it's a spoiler to go into the fight knowing what you need to do).

See, the first time around at the end, I didn't have the skills to destroy his batteries. No hints, no looking at these types of topics - I just built my character up in a way that didn't include the specific skills that can hurt the batteries. If you don't have the right skills, you can't do ANYTHING against his batteries... I just had to suck it up and deal with it.

Which I did, by the way. ;)

[ascendance]

Is it possible to get Mission to turn to the Dark Side?

[Pierce Inverarity]

See, I had stored up a HUGE supply of mines by collecting them throughout the game as they popped up, largely thanks to Mission & my main character who had massive Demolition skills. (There are mines EVERYWHERE in the game... now imagine if you had ALL of those mines in your inventory, and you never used them nor sold them at all throughout the game.)

So with Force Speed and a virtually endless supply of mines, Malak eventually killed himself by blindly walking towards my character. How's that for un-Jedi-like?

For myself, I simply threw all the Thermal Detonators I had at him (about 10 of them will suffice). What's great about the TD's (as opposed to Plasma Grenades) is that they deal damage AND throw him off his feet. You can just stand there and keep throwing.

In other news, there's too much Carth hatred in this thread.

Also, Jaheira rocks.

[Fulsrush]

There can never be enough Carth hatred in the galaxy.



By the way, has anyone else had the weird graphical incompatibility with the PC version of KOTOR where there's little blue dots dancing around the buttons on the menu screens, coupled with a runtime error when you reach the Skills section of custom character generation or the first or second combats of the game (using a pregenned character, sadly)? If so, how the living bejesus fuck can I get this bloody game to work?

[Ghola]

See, I had stored up a HUGE supply of mines by collecting them throughout the game as they popped up, largely thanks to Mission & my main character who had massive Demolition skills. (There are mines EVERYWHERE in the game... now imagine if you had ALL of those mines in your inventory, and you never used them nor sold them at all throughout the game.)

So with Force Speed and a virtually endless supply of mines, Malak eventually killed himself by blindly walking towards my character. How's that for un-Jedi-like?

That's a laugh riot! I think I'll try that one.

[Vappour]

pillar -- I know what you're saying. The only LS power that seems to work on the "batteries" is "destroy droid" (maybe throwing the saber will work??). The first time I played the game, I didn't develop that power because I didn't think it was necessary. So I had to run around and wait until he used all of them up -- what a drag!!! At least he stops the preaching after he explains what is going on. I don't think I could have made it if he didn't shut up. (You know, if you go in there and just say something like "let's get it on" just to hopefully shorten the talk, you actually get DS points).

Vappour

[Li of Orchid]

I DID beat Malak. I did run around the room to my advantage, but I couldn't destroy the batteries (I'm trying not to describe what they are because I think it's a spoiler to go into the fight knowing what you need to do).

See, the first time around at the end, I didn't have the skills to destroy his batteries. No hints, no looking at these types of topics - I just built my character up in a way that didn't include the specific skills that can hurt the batteries. If you don't have the right skills, you can't do ANYTHING against his batteries... I just had to suck it up and deal with it.

Which I did, by the way. ;)

I did this too, with a Soldier 7/Guardian 13, Light Side. In fact, I found it very, very easy. Malak barely hurt me and every turn I'd Master Power attack with my paired lightsabers (with the two super-crystals from Yavin) and Master Speed. I'd hit 3-4 times each turn for 30+ damage on each hit. Sometimes he'd go down in a single turn and had to run right for his next battery. All I had to use the entire fight was Master Speed, Force Immunity and Master Power Attack. Beating him with a non-Soldier or non-Guardian build gets much harder, mostly because his saving throws are too good for any powers to be effective against him. But if you can make a character who is better at lightsabering than Malak, he's got no chance...

[Vappour]

What are these "super crystals" you keep referring to? I went to Yavin several times but no crystals were ever on the sales list. I did, for about 15000, purchase an assault blaster (5-20 damage, upgradable) which was a LOT of fun against the cannibals on the Rakata planet -- especially in combination with Canderous' weapon (also heavily upgraded). The best I could do with crystals I came across throughout the game was to upgrade my own saber to 7-27 with a +1-8 damage bonus against DS (only available to LS characters) and a +3 modifier. I stayed away from the dual saber thing and used the feat increase for heavy weapons. I also stayed away from the soldier/Guardian characters. The scout seemed a bit more challenging -- and ultimately rewarding. The so-called "scoundrel" was a bit too challenging.

Vappour

[Li of Orchid]

Suvam Tam, on Yavin, will sell you two special "color" crystals just before the end of the game. They are "The Heart of the Guardian" and "The Mantle of the Force". They do nothing on their own, but they alter the properties of any crystal put into the saber. The full descriptions of the changes can be found here:

http://db.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/file/star_wars_kotor_pc_crystals.txt

In order to buy these crystals you need to have discovered all the Star Maps. Basically, you need to hit Yavin right before you head to the Unknown World/Star Forge. There will be a tough fight, where a bunch of Trandoshans attack Suvam, and after you kill them, Suvam offers to sell you his very best equipment. This includes the two special lightsaber crystals, as well as the best rifle in the game (the Baragwin Disruptor X), the best heavy weapon (Baragwin Heavy Repeating Blaster), and a Dex+5 Implant.

[Vappour]

Ah, now I understand how it goes. My last visit only involved "meeting" the smugglers (Transdoshans, I think) and Force Persuading them to leave. I should have known a fight would be coming if I visited again. Many thanks.

Vappour

[Sardiustone]

I am on my second round of the game and I did kill juhani. First time around I got her and she became one of my party. Now I was just wondering if since I killed her does anyone replace her in the party? I am just on the ds now so I need to be as bad as I can but am I going to regret killing her?

[Alfonzo]

I am on my second round of the game and I did kill juhani. First time around I got her and she became one of my party. Now I was just wondering if since I killed her does anyone replace her in the party? I am just on the ds now so I need to be as bad as I can but am I going to regret killing her?

As you are a first time poster I feel compelled to politely point out that this thread is five years old.

[Sardiustone]

I didnt even realize that. Thanks for pointing that out. But my question still remains the same. Maybe sombody reads really old posts like you.

[DooM GazE]

No, no one replaces her - that's okay though, there are plenty of other useful characters.

[PaladinCA]

What a great game this was. It might be time to play it again.

But Juhani? Well, the first time through the game I killed her out of frustration and managed to end the game just fine as a Light Sider.

The second time through the game (Dark Side), I didn't kill her and I found that I didn't use her much anyway. I think her and Bindo tried to stop me from joining Bastila in darkness, and it was just as well that I hadn't trained her up any. She died quickly.

I wish that KOTOR 2 mod would be completed, because that would be fun to play again if it actually fixes the game.

KOTOR is one my favorite games EVAR. :cool:

[Wakshaani]

I took J along with me, but she mainly sat in the ship while Bastilla, Mission, and sometimes Carth would go out and do all the fun stuff.

I was so light side it was *shameful*.

But, good lord, did Malak clobber me. I recall walknig into the room, then he JUMPS across and hits for over a hundred damage in one go. And I'm, like, "Dude! I have 7 HP left! WTF?!" It was an insane fight that I only won due to learning that you could pause between rounds, use a stim, then take an action as well. Pause, stim, act, pause, stim, act. I went in with 60 of the dang things from different points in the game and I ran *out* by teh end. Medpacks too! It was *insanely* hard.

[Fresh Ninja]

But, good lord, did Malak clobber me. I recall walknig into the room, then he JUMPS across and hits for over a hundred damage in one go. And I'm, like, "Dude! I have 7 HP left! WTF?!" It was an insane fight that I only won due to learning that you could pause between rounds, use a stim, then take an action as well. Pause, stim, act, pause, stim, act. I went in with 60 of the dang things from different points in the game and I ran *out* by teh end. Medpacks too! It was *insanely* hard.

Really? The end fight was never a big problem for me. Just run around, blast his Jedi popsicle batteries with Force lightning or Lightsaber Throw, and then alternately heal and attack.

[Epoch]

Really? The end fight was never a big problem for me. Just run around, blast his Jedi popsicle batteries with Force lightning or Lightsaber Throw, and then alternately heal and attack.

First time I played it, I managed to make a character who didn't have any means of taking out the Forcicles (lightside, and never took lightsaber throw on the grounds that it sucked), and so I just beat Malak down X times, where X = the number of Forcicles there were. Still wasn't that hard a fight, though I did use the time when we popped out of combat so that he could run and slurp up some medpacks to fully heal and, as I recall, reactivate an energy shield.

[Fresh Ninja]

First time I played it, I managed to make a character who didn't have any means of taking out the Forcicles (lightside, and never took lightsaber throw on the grounds that it sucked),


Didn't you have any grenades or ranged weapons?

Although, it's been so long since I played KOTOR, I don't remember if you needed Force-y attacks to Kevorkianize the Jedi batteries, or if you could use conventional weapons.

[Rikimaru]

I was actually disappointed with the fight with Malak when I did Light Side.

As a dark sider, we had a fairly enjoyable lightsaber / force-power battle which lasted a while, but not too long since I life drained the Forcicles myself.

But Light Side? I was a Jedi Guardian (or whatever the fighter type Jedi are called) with twin lightsabers and I cut Malak down in one round. He kept running back to the batteries (which I didn't destroy as I either didn't have Disable Droid or didn't realise it would work) and then back to me. But every time he ran back to me, I cut down in one round.

The same happened at the big fight with him about half way through the game. One round.

He just cannot stand up to a proper combat build Jedi. Shame.

[darktalon]

It's a long-standing tradition in fantasy to use real-world languages as sources for names. Sometimes with hilarious results - see my sig.
I can't remember what my sig said back then, which is a shame.

[Wakshaani]

Really? The end fight was never a big problem for me. Just run around, blast his Jedi popsicle batteries with Force lightning or Lightsaber Throw, and then alternately heal and attack.

I went in as, I think, a Scoundrel 8 and Sentinel 12, with my focus being charisma for neat Persuasion trees. It ... was pretty darn ugly.

[Old Geezer]

But Juhani? Well, the first time through the game I killed her out of frustration and managed to end the game just fine as a Light Sider.

*frown* Time to clean the freshers in the Jedi Temple again, my young Padawan.

Here's your lighttoothbrush.

[Jon D]

I took J along with me, but she mainly sat in the ship while Bastilla, Mission, and sometimes Carth would go out and do all the fun stuff.

I was so light side it was *shameful*.

But, good lord, did Malak clobber me. I recall walknig into the room, then he JUMPS across and hits for over a hundred damage in one go. And I'm, like, "Dude! I have 7 HP left! WTF?!" It was an insane fight that I only won due to learning that you could pause between rounds, use a stim, then take an action as well. Pause, stim, act, pause, stim, act. I went in with 60 of the dang things from different points in the game and I ran *out* by teh end. Medpacks too! It was *insanely* hard.

First time I played this game, I was a LS Guardian. Malak killed me the first time, so right before I went to fight him again, I popped about 60 combat stims. I was so wired me hair was throwing sparks. Did so much damage in the first attack flurry that he didn't get back up.

Turns out if he has 1 HP left, he chows on a battery. If you hit him with 500 dmg and blow him into negative numbers, he tends to whimper and die. :D

Or my game gliched, IDK. But it was cool having my buddy watch when I back handed Malak like he owed me money.

[Epoch]

Didn't you have any grenades or ranged weapons?

Although, it's been so long since I played KOTOR, I don't remember if you needed Force-y attacks to Kevorkianize the Jedi batteries, or if you could use conventional weapons.

Y'know, not sure that I tried. My impression was that it needed to be a force power, but I wouldn't swear to it.

[Unferth]

For what it's worth, I believe at least one of the powers from the Force Suppression/Force Breach line will also destroy the trapped Jedi - I believe the logic is that Malak is keeping them alive and feeding on their power through the Force, so severing that connection allows them to finish dying.

So there are at least three options a light-sider might have, although I'm not sure Throw Lightsaber should count as one of them.