[comics] Another Identity Crisis theory

[Quasar]

http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/?column=13

Gutteratti Dimension Of Continuity writes with his own, thoroughly thought through Identity Crisis theory. And since last week's clearly wasn't, why not give him a go? Dimensions Of Continuity, take it away!

"The key to solving any great mystery is to connect together means, motive and opportunity. Brad Meltzer recently touched on this at the end of Identity Crisis #4. Who benefits? If I am correct, the answer to that question has an enormous twist to it.

"I believe the serial killer is Hunter Zolomon - a.k.a. Zoom. The answer has been there all along.

"Means - Hunter Zolomon made his career as a rogue profiler. He knows the various means and methods super villians use, and it would be incredibly easy for him to replicate their modus operandi as a means of misdirection (so Zolomon's work could move along with more ease). Zolomon is also now a super speedster. As a result, Zolomon can move faster than light; he can bend time. Subverting the intricate security systems would be very easy for him.

"Motive - When Zolomon went insane, he came to believe it was his duty to make heroes stronger through personal crisis. This is why Zolomon killed Wally and Linda's unborn children. However, when the Spectre mind-wiped every person on earth, Zolomon was suddenly left without his personal knowledge of the Flash. As a result, Zolomon began to carry out his original agenda with other heroes. Who benefits? In Zolomon's mind, it is the heroes who benefit. Zolomon killed Sue Dibny to make Elongated Man stronger. Zolomon attempted to kill Jean Loring to make Atom stronger. The threat to Lois? It's a little early to say, but would it truly be hard for Zolomon to determine even secret identities? Zolomon is a profiler, after all; he just never had a motive for profiling heroes until now.

"Opportunity - Just before Identity Crisis premiered, Ashley Zolomon was in a severe car wreck in the pages of Flash. The danger to Ashley awoke Zoom from his suspended state. This was highlighted by Zoom leaving yellow flowers for his wife in her hospital room. Zoom became active right as Identity Crisis started. He's been active through the entire series.

"The piece of the puzzle that allowed me to put this together is the recent release of Flash #214. Geoff Johns went to some pains to lay out the Identity Crisis timeline so that it could be proven Zoom was active in the right time frame. Johns also went to some pains near the end of the issue to lay out how greatly the revelation of the killer will affect both Wally and the Flash. Why? Well, Identity Crisis will have been Wally's fault in a way. But for Wally's request, the Spectre would have not wiped away the identity of the Flash. But for Wally's request, a mind wiped Zolomon may not have targeted the loved ones of unsuspecting heroes.

"So is that the solution to the Identity Crisis mystery? Only time will tell. However, it is a greatly compelling scenario; and the way I would have written it. If true, then DC, Meltzer and Johns have done an emormous job with this. The build up and the answers have been in the DC Universe for quite some time; but you would need to look at the big picture to see things before the final reveal in Identity Crisis. As DC has been telling us all along - Identity Crisis is not just a mini-series; it truly is an event."

Ta da! now, go about your business...

Hmmmm.

[Q99]

Hmm... I like that theory. I like it better than most (Since Zoom's a known quantity who would do that in his MO. Unlike the possibility of some old villain/hero suddenly snapping and doing stuff they previously wouldn't, Zoom's a perfect fit already).

[The Scribbler]

Hrmm... that is a good theory...

But I was under the impression that the IC writer said that everything needed to determine the killer's identity was in the first four issues of the series.

If that's true, I don't see how it could be Zoom, as he hasn't made an appearance and no one who hasn't been reading Flash could every determine that it was him.

Personally, though, I do like the idea that someone is doing this (in their own, twisted, way) "for" the heroes... it's something that came up in the big Something Awful thread about the series.

Another thing that came up there was the reoccuring theme of "coming back from the dead." Every issue has mentioned someone "coming back" or having been "dead." Everyone carrying Sue's casket, with the exception of the family, was dead at one point from what I understand. Ollie asks Hal "when are you coming back?" There were a few more I can't remember.

I don't know where that's going (ok, the Hal thing is about Rebirth, but it's still part of the theme), but it's certainly there.

Also, a friend suspects that it's Tim Drake's step-mother who's going to die next.

[mahubrahd]

I don't think it would be Zoom....why would Zoom, especially this incarnation have a vendetta(sociopath that he is) for any characters outside Wally West?

-mahubrahd

[Kurotowa]

Hrmm... that is a good theory...

But I was under the impression that the IC writer said that everything needed to determine the killer's identity was in the first four issues of the series.

If that's true, I don't see how it could be Zoom, as he hasn't made an appearance and no one who hasn't been reading Flash could every determine that it was him.

Agreed. Much as I have trouble with IC, the writer is playing by the rules of a good mystery story. That means the answer is already in front of us. Hidden, disguised, with red herrings confusing us. But there somewhere. Besides, what does Zoom have to do with Suicide Squad?

Whatever the answer is it's steeped in DC history. IC wouldn't be making such a point of going over past events otherwise. My DC Lore is weak, so I don't think I'm going to guess this one before it comes. Still, I can tell Zoom ain't it.

[Q99]

I don't think it would be Zoom....why would Zoom, especially this incarnation have a vendetta(sociopath that he is) for any characters outside Wally West?

-mahubrahd


He wants to 'strengthen heroes'. Wally's just the most personal target for him.

I don't think it'd be him, I'm just of the opinion that it's not a stretch for him to do something like this. He has both the 'morals' (having done similar before) and the motive.

[Wakshaani]

I still say Captain Boomerang.

By golly.

-- Wak

[mahubrahd]

I still say Captain Boomerang.

By golly.

-- Wak

Maybe it's Capt'n Carrot and the Zoo Crew...maybe they got sick of being the joke of the superhero set, and desided to Fastback it to DCU prime and get a healthy scoop of vengence!!!

-mahubrahd(do you realize that Iron Man had roller skates on his boots so he could charge hsi armors batterirs...seriously I ain't making that up.)

[jrients]

I would be surprised to discover that the killer is a supervillain. The revelation needs to be shocking, right? I'd put Snapper Carr higher up on the suspect list than any bad guy.

[mahubrahd]

I would be surprised to discover that the killer is a supervillain. The revelation needs to be shocking, right? I'd put Snapper Carr higher up on the suspect list than any bad guy.

Snapper Carr?

Well he does have super powers now.

-mahubrahd

[Rugger]

Snapper Carr?

Well he does have super powers now.

-mahubrahd


Huh? Last time I saw him was in the Hourman series...so what happened to him to "power him up"?

- Matt

[Bahama'at]

I would be surprised to discover that the killer is a supervillain. The revelation needs to be shocking, right? I'd put Snapper Carr higher up on the suspect list than any bad guy.
It has to be edgy too, since the upper management want a more "realistic" universe - so it will be Snapper, but he's a fucked up repressed transexual, hence the preference for big/shocking female victims.

- Ma'at, DC looks like White Wolf did in 1993.

[JohnnyCanuck]

Last *I* saw Snapper, he was advising Young Justice.

I miss Young Justice. :(

[mahubrahd]

Huh? Last time I saw him was in the Hourman series...so what happened to him to "power him up"?

- Matt


INVASION.

-mahubrahd

[Wakshaani]

Invasion, which lead to teh Blasters comic book (I'm not the only one with that, right? Right?)

He's a teleporter now.

But I was serious about Captain Boomerang.

I mean, the *smart* answer would be Lex "Saw my power armor in issue one" Luthor. He's smart enough, he's been out of sigt for a while, he's got a thing about women, and, of course, they wanted to pull him out of the White House specificly to make him a big villain again.

It'd *really* explain him giving Lois a message, too, instead of whacking her like the others.


-- Wak

[mahubrahd]

Invasion, which lead to teh Blasters comic book (I'm not the only one with that, right? Right?)

-snip-

It'd *really* explain him giving Lois a message, too, instead of whacking her like the others.


-- Wak

I have issue one...thats it.

I have all the issues of Kickers inc. ;)

Not Lex, He would never lower hismself to even look at second stringers like the atom and Elongated man...let alone go abou the business of attacking their SO's.

I think that it will end up being a couple of bad guys...didn't Hal say.."make THEM pay" to Ollie?

-mahubrahd

[happyelf]

It's definintly not going to be some continuity thing from another comic.

Here's a few clues that people may not have noticed(I haven't read the previous discussion on here).

*The supervillain who gets shot in the first comic aparently loses his ability to teleport just as the killer strikes, suggesting somebody may have stolen it somehow to 'port' into the victims house.

*Batman is in Dr light's recollection of the JLA taking him down in the watchtower, but he's not there in EM's recollection as described earlier. Apart from that, the two pictures are identical. Somebody is lying or not remembering events correctly. One of those people may be batman.

*Batman is assuming somebody has somthing to gain from the killings. This could be right or even a 'rule' of the mystery being set up. Then again, it may be that he's incorrect, or it may be that he's effectivly right, but it's being phrased deceptivly (for instance, it may not be a matter of somebody gaining something, but someing trying to avoid losing something).

[mahubrahd]

It's definintly not going to be some continuity thing from another comic.

Here's a few clues that people may not have noticed(I haven't read the previous discussion on here).

*The supervillain who gets shot in the first comic aparently loses his ability to teleport just as the killer strikes, suggesting somebody may have stolen it somehow to 'port' into the victims house.

*Batman is in Dr light's recollection of the JLA taking him down in the watchtower, but he's not there in EM's recollection as described earlier. Apart from that, the two pictures are identical. Somebody is lying or not remembering events correctly. One of those people may be batman.

*Batman is assuming somebody has somthing to gain from the killings. This could be right or even a 'rule' of the mystery being set up. Then again, it may be that he's incorrect, or it may be that he's effectivly right, but it's being phrased deceptivly (for instance, it may not be a matter of somebody gaining something, but someing trying to avoid losing something).

Batman is never "incorrect".

-mahubrahd

[The Scribbler]

Batman is never "incorrect".

-mahubrahd

Although he does look pretty upset about something on the cover to #7.

[mahubrahd]

Although he does look pretty upset about something on the cover to #7.

Don;t leav me in suspence...POST IT!!!

-mahubrahd(I am sure something happens to Robin's dad...)

[The Scribbler]

Don;t leav me in suspence...POST IT!!!

-mahubrahd(I am sure something happens to Robin's dad...)

Sorry, I'm at work... can't do the image search.

Hrmm... anyone else got them? I could have sworn they were posted in a thread on these boards.

[mahubrahd]

Sorry, I'm at work... can't do the image search.

Hrmm... anyone else got them? I could have sworn they were posted in a thread on these boards.


:mad:
You are offically my "mosted hated man on the net" today.

-mahubrahd ;)

[The Scribbler]

:mad:
You are offically my "mosted hated man on the net" today.

Sorry! :)

[mahubrahd]

Sorry! :)


Do you have room where you work to do push-ups?

-mahubrahd

[Christopher Tatro]

-mahubrahd(I am sure something happens to Robin's dad...)


Isn't the point of this series someone screwing with JLAers' families? So why would somebody be going after the family of Robin, let alone a kid who probably wasn't even Robin then?

[mahubrahd]

Isn't the point of this series someone screwing with JLAers' families? So why would somebody be going after the family of Robin, let alone a kid who probably wasn't even Robin then?


Batman isn't that far removed from Robin...He's an "easy" target.

-mahubrahd

[RobertEdwards]

Snapper Carr lost his teleportation superpower some time back. It was linked to his snapping his fingers (of course).

His hands got chopped off and Q. Dox from L.E.G.I.O.N. gave him replacement (Cloned? Robotic?) hands. He couldn't teleport during his appearances in the shortlived Hourman series.

Of course, he might have snapped back...

[Jeffwik]

Snapper Carr lost his teleportation superpower some time back. It was linked to his snapping his fingers (of course).

His hands got chopped off and Q. Dox from L.E.G.I.O.N. gave him replacement (Cloned? Robotic?) hands. He couldn't teleport during his appearances in the shortlived Hourman series.

Of course, he might have snapped back...

Q. Dox? That little shit? Why?

[RobertEdwards]

Q. Dox? That little shit? Why?

I don't really remember. I think he was just doing an Honorary JL member a favor. Gave him a trip back to earth too.

What was his first name? Quel? Did they ever finish up the story with his his kid?

[mahubrahd]

I don't really remember. I think he was just doing an Honorary JL member a favor. Gave him a trip back to earth too.

What was his first name? Quel? Did they ever finish up the story with his his kid?


I do not think so...

Wow...the 90's really were a shit time for comics.


-mahubrahd

[The Scribbler]

http://www.newsarama.com/DC/Identity_Crisis/identity6_large.jpg

There you go Mahu.

[mahubrahd]

http://www.newsarama.com/DC/Identity_Crisis/identity6_large.jpg

There you go Mahu.


Are you married?

Thanks...now I am all curious and shit.

-mahubrahd

[The Scribbler]

Are you married?

Thanks...now I am all curious and shit.

-mahubrahd

Engaged, but glad I could help. :)

[mahubrahd]

Engaged, but glad I could help. :)


Has anyone even ventured to look thru...IDENTITY DISK?

-mahubrahd(I bought the first three issues....I need a labotomy now.)

[The Scribbler]

Has anyone even ventured to look thru...IDENTITY DISK?

-mahubrahd(I bought the first three issues....I need a labotomy now.)

I was interested in it... in that "maybe I'll flip through it some day sort of way.

What is it, other than a throw-away miniseries?

[mahubrahd]

I was interested in it... in that "maybe I'll flip through it some day sort of way.

What is it, other than a throw-away miniseries?


Throw away is an understatement.
Please Ignore it.
I am sorry I brought it up. My hope was I wasn't the only idiot who wasted money on it.

-mahubrahd

[JSpektr]

That cover with Batman...

one of those pictures isn't Signalman, is it? The one next to Dr. Light and Mirror Master?

[GM Victory]

That cover with Batman...

one of those pictures isn't Signalman, is it? The one next to Dr. Light and Mirror Master?

Looks more like Chronos to me.

[Geoffrey21]

Theory: Dr. Light recalls Batman in the scene of his brainwash, but the heroes do not because Batman brainwashed them. It was his doing and his decision. So when Light gets his memory back, he recalls the whole thing.

[Andrew Tatro]

This was posted in another community:


Identity Crisis is pushing the Satellite Era JL hard. Green Arrow, Zatana, Hawkman, Elongated Man, etc. Those are the players that are getting exposure. Clearly Meltzer knows this era. Recently a customer (longtime JL fan) who is extremely unhappy with the content of IC pointed out a main aspect of the Satellite JL era. Someone was ALWAYS on monitor duty. A member, not a sidekick or a wife or whatever. Always a JL memeber. One character would arrive to relieve another.

Here's what we know:
Nobody was on duty when Sue was attacked by Light. Nobody there until the League returned to react to the aftermath. Someone should have been there.

When Dr. Light got his memory back after the JL ganged up on Deathstroke, he remembered Batman being there. That panel has bugged all of us since we noticed it. That is not a mistake of the art. Batman was there according to Light, but he was not there as issue #2 played out.

Meltzer expressed an interest in making Batman more human, more flawed. For ten years, since defeating the Martians in Morrison's JLA, Batman has been absolutely unstoppable. Unbeatable. A plan for any and everything. Not just a master detective, but almost completely invincible. Except for in his own books (War Games), but that's another story.

Here's what I got:
Batman (still pretty young and early in his career) had monitor duty that night, left to attend to something else either in Gotham or simply felt that he wasn't getting anything done doing monitor duty. Sue came up, got attacked. Batman felt a crippling guilt and not only was Light made to forget, Batman too was made to forget his ball drop that got a civilian hurt. Batman seems to have no memory of being at the satellite when the attack happened and no one has mentioned him being there, yet Light with his complete memory puts him there. Remember the cover to #6. Batman will remember. Batman will no longer be perfect.


I talked it over with the wife and she seemed confused about a few things until we both brought up the notion that the thing that tipped GA and Hawkman over the edge wasn't the brainwashing of Dr. Light but rather that of Batman.

[Geoffrey21]

I talked it over with the wife and she seemed confused about a few things until we both brought up the notion that the thing that tipped GA and Hawkman over the edge wasn't the brainwashing of Dr. Light but rather that of Batman.


Hmm. Yes. Even better than mine. Though all this Batman involvement makes for Dick Grayson looking like a nice candidate for the killer, which I am 100% less-than-keen on.

[Mantisking]

Hmm. Yes. Even better than mine. Though all this Batman involvement makes for Dick Grayson looking like a nice candidate for the killer, which I am 100% less-than-keen on.That's one of the rumors floating around.

[thePill]

Hmm. Yes. Even better than mine. Though all this Batman involvement makes for Dick Grayson looking like a nice candidate for the killer, which I am 100% less-than-keen on.Y'know, I only just heard this this past weekend. I'm even more less-than-keen on this idea.

[morgue]

I can't believe Dick is the killer. Nightwing is the biggest star DC has on the girly crushometer! They wouldn't throw that away. It'd never never get approved.

[Bahama'at]

I can't believe Dick is the killer. Nightwing is the biggest star DC has on the girly crushometer! They wouldn't throw that away. It'd never never get approved.But just think how "edgy" that would be!

Doing that might actually kill my ex-roomate's 25 year love affair with comic books. This is a man, a devout Nightwing fanboy, who buys over $300 worth of regular product, plus all the trades and the occasional other thing - t-shirt, toy, statue, etc. They lose him and that's a $3600 drop in their income - and there's hundreds of people like him.

- Ma'at

[happyelf]

Nightwing hasn't even BEEN in the series, it's not him.

It's not nightwing, it's not zoom, it's not hank hall OR captain atom.

[morgue]

Doing that might actually kill my ex-roomate's 25 year love affair with comic books. This is a man, a devout Nightwing fanboy, who buys over $300 worth of regular product, plus all the trades and the occasional other thing - t-shirt, toy, statue, etc. They lose him and that's a $3600 drop in their income - and there's hundreds of people like him.


Who benefits?

Just ask yourself, who benefits?

That's right...

...BILL JEMAS IS THE KILLER OMGWTFKKKPKZPLZKTHXBYE!!!11ONEONEONE!!

[The Scribbler]

Who benefits?

Just ask yourself, who benefits?

That's right...

...BILL JEMAS IS THE KILLER OMGWTFKKKPKZPLZKTHXBYE!!!11ONEONEONE!!


That's right! He's gone rogue, no longer running Marvel, but hoping to benefit the company anyway. It's perfect! :)

Now, who has he disguised himself as?

[Mantisking]

Nightwing hasn't even BEEN in the series, it's not him.

It's not nightwing, it's not zoom, it's not hank hall OR captain atom.Are you sure about Nightwing not being involved? I think I saw him in with the Titans during the funeral.

[Wakshaani]

Now, it could be Nightwing's Ravensoul corrupted Hypertime doppleganger, Deathwing (No, not making that one up.)

I'm gonna stick to my guns, tho, and say Luthor.

You saw it here first, kids.

-- Wak

[Geoffrey21]

Now, it could be Nightwing's Ravensoul corrupted Hypertime doppleganger, Deathwing (No, not making that one up.)

I'm gonna stick to my guns, tho, and say Luthor.

You saw it here first, kids.

-- Wak

A: Nightwing was not only at the funeral, he had a scene to himself at his parents' gravce in issue 1, so he is a candidate. I do not want him to be.

B: Luthor was my pick when issue 1 started. He's just been beaten by Superman and Batman and he's just had ENOUGH of these stupid bloody superheroes so he's hurting them in a way he knows he can. Capping their loved ones. He's smart enough to bypass all that technology. Also, he's the only one who it can be that won't leave me feeling either very dirty or like the whole thing was a lame excuse to make Signalman into a horrible madman.

[Kurotowa]

A: Nightwing was not only at the funeral, he had a scene to himself at his parents' gravce in issue 1, so he is a candidate. I do not want him to be.

B: Luthor was my pick when issue 1 started. He's just been beaten by Superman and Batman and he's just had ENOUGH of these stupid bloody superheroes so he's hurting them in a way he knows he can. Capping their loved ones. He's smart enough to bypass all that technology. Also, he's the only one who it can be that won't leave me feeling either very dirty or like the whole thing was a lame excuse to make Signalman into a horrible madman.

I'm betting it's a superhero gone bad. A villian just playing dirtier than usual would be an anticlimax, and Luthor's MO is megolomania not sadism. Plus someone on the inside would explain how they know about the security and Superman/Clark. However, the creative minds seem more willing to sacrifice second stringers than people with their own comic titles. So I doubt it's Nightwing.

I'm going to swallow my distaste and re-read the issues, trying to look for clues. I'm not sure I'll find anything since I don't know the DC history this is all build around but damnit I can't resist a good mystery.

[Quasar]

A: Nightwing was not only at the funeral, he had a scene to himself at his parents' gravce in issue 1, so he is a candidate. I do not want him to be.

Plus there's been some talk of his series winding up soon.

B: Luthor was my pick when issue 1 started.

I gotta say I'll be disappointed if i does turn out to be Lex.

[Jeffwik]

I do not think so...

Wow...the 90's really were a shit time for comics.


-mahubrahd

Now, now, there's no need to say things about L.E.G.I.O.N. that surely you don't really mean.

Querl Dox's plotline was pretty well resolved in the last issue of R.E.B.E.L.S.



R.E.B.E.L.S. made me sad.

[thePill]

I gotta say I'll be disappointed if i does turn out to be Lex.I would too. But, Lex did hint to some sort of crisis in his last appearance in Superman/Batman.

He specifically used the word "crisis". But, that really is a loaded word in the DCU.

[Wakshaani]

I missed, and cannot find, that part of the Superman/Batman series.

Teh Supergirl stuff, I have.

But not teh Lex ones.

Anyone willing to walk me through it?

I'd be much obliged.

-- Wak

[PTiKachu]

Now, now, there's no need to say things about L.E.G.I.O.N. that surely you don't really mean.

Querl Dox's plotline was pretty well resolved in the last issue of R.E.B.E.L.S.



R.E.B.E.L.S. made me sad.

Me too. L.E.G.I.O.N. was never the same after Giffen left. Although Waid was good and all.

Waid and Kitson together on the new LSH is promising, though. I mean, we've got a Dox in center stage.

[happyelf]

I'm not sure I'll find anything since I don't know the DC history this is all build around but damnit I can't resist a good mystery.I doubt it's based around DC history trivia. It should be all right there in the series.

[RobertEdwards]

I missed, and cannot find, that part of the Superman/Batman series.

Teh Supergirl stuff, I have.

But not teh Lex ones.

Anyone willing to walk me through it?

I'd be much obliged.

-- Wak

Superman/Batman

Lex accuses Superman of sending giant Kryptonite Metors to destroy America.

Things degenerate from there. While Superman and Batman kick ass and take names, Dr Light and Power Girl use their amazing boobie powers to convince the new
Toyman-boy to build a Kamakazie Rocket to stop the approaching asteriod.

Captain Atom, who's had a revelation following being blasted into the future, pilots the rocket to glory and his next mini-series.

In the aftermath, Lex takes too many SuperNuclar 'roids and freaks out completely, personnally attacking Supes and Bats while wearing a tacky purple and green battle suit. He gets his ass kicked and crawls away, vowing revenge. The American Peoples now realize they was betrayed by the Prez and kiss Supes and some rumored Urban Legend's feet. Oh, and apparently Lex's latest round of loonyness is enough for congress to impeach him or for him to be declared incompetant or something, as Pete Ross is sworn in for a two issue term in office as Pres.

Lex vows revenge while hiding in the sewers, all is as he has forseen in his master plan. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

It'a a very pretty series, and the dialog is witty, but the plot is pretty much the crap I just wrote down.

Good bits include Hawkman and Captain Marvel hunting Supes and Bats. Bad bits include Captain Atom putting up with Major Force's shit, and Superman attacking Superman.

[Quasar]

Pete Ross is sworn in for a two issue term in office as Pres.

:confused:

Only two issues?

[thePill]

Superman/Batman

Snippage

It'a a very pretty series, and the dialog is witty, but the plot is pretty much the crap I just wrote down.
I disagree, Ed McGuiness draws every male hero like a Steroid addicted assclown.

[Geoffrey21]

I disagree, Ed McGuiness draws every male hero like a Steroid addicted assclown.


McGuiness's cartoony charm looks like Da Vinci compared to the crazy scribblings of Michael Turner.

[thePill]

McGuiness's cartoony charm looks like Da Vinci compared to the crazy scribblings of Michael Turner.Turner= scratchy crap. McGuiness = needs realistic life drawing art lessons. It's why I haven't bought one issue of Superman/Batman, that and Jeph Loeb's preternatural ability to saddle himself to "hot" artists of the month.

Oh, and also because I could care less what Superman and Batman do when they team up. Who the hell cares? They're each have at least three titles which they are featured in every freaking month. Not to mention JLA, where they inevitably end up the center of attention, and rightly so, as they are the best/highest selling/readily recognizable/what have you superheroes that DC has. But, I don't need to follow the monthly (or not so monthly) adventures of Superman and Batman exclusively.

My brother who buys every issue is my source for this particular form of tripe.

[Geoffrey21]

*snip*


I like it. I am finding it hard to really enjoy what with the not-to-my-taste art and lackluster release schedule, but I like it. Madcap superheroics. Darkseid ripping up Superman's parent's house...Composite Superman/Batman mecha rocket...Kryptovenom Luthor...this comic is nutty and I like it.

[thePill]

I like it. I am finding it hard to really enjoy what with the not-to-my-taste art and lackluster release schedule, but I like it. Madcap superheroics. Darkseid ripping up Superman's parent's house...Composite Superman/Batman mecha rocket...Kryptovenom Luthor...this comic is nutty and I like it.
Regarding the lackluster release schedule, may have something to do with Michael Turner having some form of cancer. Too bad, not that I care for his art, but that anybody gets cancer.

[Geoffrey21]

Regarding the lackluster release schedule, may have something to do with Michael Turner having some form of cancer. Too bad, not that I care for his art, but that anybody gets cancer.

And don't that put my complaints about a late funny book in perspective.

[RobertEdwards]

:confused:

Only two issues?

OK, ya got me. I exagerated.

It's been more that two issues, but they started writing him out as Prez ASAP.

He was betrayed by Miss-terious E-vile Top Men of the sort who sponsor Major Force and decided not to run for election.

[martikhoras]

Here is a theory I find chillingly effective
http://dcboards.warnerbros.com/web/messages.jsp?board=identity_crisis&topic=60735421&pageOffset=4

Dick did do it...to make everyone stronger

[Quasar]

It's been more that two issues, but they started writing him out as Prez ASAP.

He was betrayed by Miss-terious E-vile Top Men of the sort who sponsor Major Force and decided not to run for election.

I didn't know that. Where's this happening? In Action Comics (a title I don't read)?

[The Scribbler]

Back to Identity Crisis.

I haven't read it yet, but I hear that in the latest issue of Wizard the writer comments that he was given a list of about 15 characters by DC that he was free to completely screw up and tear down as story desired... and that he was genuinely shocked by two of the names on the list (as in, they were big).

[Mantisking]

Back to Identity Crisis.

I haven't read it yet, but I hear that in the latest issue of Wizard the writer comments that he was given a list of about 15 characters by DC that he was free to completely screw up and tear down as story desired... and that he was genuinely shocked by two of the names on the list (as in, they were big).

Here's the Nightwing rumor from Lying in the Gutters
S
P
O
I
L
E
R

S
P
A
C
E

WINGING IT

"Nightwing's" 100th issue is rumoured to be his last (though not officially confirmed as such). This has caused a number of people to see it as proof of the rumour that he's the killer from "Identity Crisis." He also follows the classic murder mystery trappings of appearing in the first issue, with a similar trenchcoat worn by the killer, and all the deaths start on the anniversary of his parents' own demise.

[mahubrahd]

Here's the Nightwing rumor from Lying in the Gutters


WINGING IT

"Nightwing's" 100th issue is rumoured to be his last (though not officially confirmed as such). This has caused a number of people to see it as proof of the rumour that he's the killer from "Identity Crisis." He also follows the classic murder mystery trappings of appearing in the first issue, with a similar trenchcoat worn by the killer, and all the deaths start on the anniversary of his parents' own demise.


I would stop reading comics.

-mahubrahd(not really, but it is stupid beyond belief.)

[Q99]

I would stop reading comics.

-mahubrahd(not really, but it is stupid beyond belief.)


I would read a lot less comics.

Still, I don't believe it for a second. It's a big thing, but it doesn't fit with Nightwing at all. Not even close.

If he did snap, he'd have a totally different MO.

[LeeMajors]

I'm a big nightwing fan.

This would put me off DC comics for good.

[JohnnyCanuck]

I've read up to issue #4, and here are some of the conclusions I've drawn:
Luthor is behind all this, but not in the way you might be thinking. He made the suggestion to another villain, hoping the turn of events would keep the heroes busy while Lex works on his own diabolical scheme. Lex may also have remembered Superman = Kent and let that slip to our mystery villain.

Our Mystery Villain is at least a bit off his rocker. There's no real gain to commiting these crimes other than to bring pain to the heroes. "Rational" (and I use the term loosely) villains wouldn't want to bring down this much heat upon themselves.

Sportsmaster was a Suicide Squad member who had the ability to mimic other people's abilities: not their powers, but skills, fighting styles, and such. I think he'd be a perfect candidate... but has anyone actually mentioned Sportsmaster yet? If not, then I think somebody got themselves the Amazo android mentioned in issue #1. That still leaves us in the dark as to who the real villain is. We're likely going to be facing double and triple bluffs as to their identity.

Hal knows who the villain is, but can't say. That means it's not a cosmic-level threat. Otherwise he'd get all Specter-y.

Interviews with various DC insiders have revealed that the storyline is going to have ties to Batman. I've no reason to disbelieve this.

Captain Boomerang's son is totally going to bite it next issue. There's no other possible explanation to showcasing him so much - because he sure as hell isn't Mystery Villain. Why bother killing the son? Well, if you have a major hate-on for Rogues or former Rogues...

I still haven't figured out who the actual "mastermind" is yet. I am strongly inclined to believe that the killer is mentally unstable, has heavy ties to both Batman and the Flash, is someone who Luthor knows can stir up some major sh**, and has the resources to buy/steal an Amazo. Based on what we've been given so far, can anyone think of a character who meets these criteria?

[GM Victory]

I would be more inclined to think of heavy ties to the Suicide Squad before I would think of ties to the Flash or the Rogues. Digger was a long-term member of the Squad.

[Wakshaani]

So was Amanda Waller. But I don't think that she's high on the ol' suspectometer.

(I killed them all, in order to create more single heros! I need a MAN!)

Who profits indeed.

-- Wak

[Eimi]

Having just read through a collection of SS from start to finish, I am now compelled to read Identity Crisis as well.

And wasn't that Deadshot on the wall on that batman cover? How's he figured into this thus far?

[Wakshaani]

Having just read through a collection of SS from start to finish, I am now compelled to read Identity Crisis as well.

And wasn't that Deadshot on the wall on that batman cover? How's he figured into this thus far?

Part of the Mercenary Guild, he's mainly sat on a couch, had beer, and yammered about random nothing.

Meanwhile, back at the Cave of Wakkitude, I felt pangs of jealousy over your SS collection, having nary an issue myself.

-- Wak

[Jack]

I'm a big nightwing fan.

This would put me off DC comics for good.

I wouldn't get too worried about it just yet. For one, I'm pretty sure Nightwing isn't ending at 100 and also pretty sure that DC's not going to pull something like that unless they let Frank Miller write it. Oh, and if they wanted it to really suck. For examples, see the treatment of Grayson in that godawful trainwreck last issue of the Dark Knight sequel.

[thePill]

Is Identity Crisis the first time that we've heard about him being the villain formerly known as the Calculator being the Villain version of Oracle? I'm thinking things will tie back to him more directly somehow eventually regardless. Just don't know how...

Also, I'm thinking maybe Captain Boomerang will bite it instead of his son. Just because it seems a little too much to put on yet another innocent, basically your old standby "heroic-sacrifice-for-small-time-villain-and-tragic-story-for-his-son-to-take-up-costumed-life" bit. Not that this series has been soft on innocents. It's just that at this point, I think most readers are expecting that his son will get offed, so pull the little switcheroo and get a new version of Captain Boomerang, son takes up mantle, in the process.

I'm still hating the Nightwing theory, but there's very little at this point that allows me to see any other suspects...

[Jack]

I'm still hating the Nightwing theory, but there's very little at this point that allows me to see any other suspects...

I look at it this way. Metzger is an experienced writer. Assuming he knows his shit, he'd know there is about zero in Grayson's past to suggest he's a serial killer. And its pretty clear we're dealing with a serial killer.

If Batman had abused him? Sure.
If he'd expressed problems with cruelty? Sure.
If he was more anti-social? Sure.

But Grayson's life isn't all that bad, considering the tragedies he's seen. Plus, Jason Todd was the "crazy" Robin, Grayson doesn't fill that niche.

As it is, "He just went nuts" is extremely poor storytelling and I just don't see that.

So who's got the serial killer background? Honestly, none of the heroes do. Not that I can see. There's a special blend of abuse and mental instability that's present in the vast majority of known serial killers (even in cases like Dauhmer where abuse couldn't be proven it is strongly suspected). And we're not talking "Bats is a bit crazy, isn't he?" We're talking "Wow, I'd feel sorry for the horrendous shit this guy had been through in his early life if he didn't keep killing and mutilating folks."

Most serial killers tend to be white males between the ages of 25-40 or so too, but some psychologists have suggested that's more a logical extenstion of population dynamics than a telling trait. But still, its a good place to start.

So who's a young white male who we don't know enough about? Who's the guy with family issues who might have been abused to all hell? My guess? Capt. Boomerang's son is really the best candidate here.

Course that leaves the question of "How in the hell does he know who everyone is?" I dunno.

But even that idea takes me to something Hal Jordan said when he told Ollie he couldn't help.

"Make them pay when you find them."

Them? My theory? Angelic forces of vengeance don't make mistakes of grammar. Hal can't tell Ollie, so he gave him the only hint he could...

So who are "they?" I dunno, but I'm guessing its not Nightwing and Jason Todd or whoever people are suspecting on the comics forums this week. I think that a few too many folks get an iconoclastic tingle from the idea that a big time superhero is really crazy and that's leading them into cuckoo conspiracy theory territory in terms of accuracy.

Of course, maybe Metzger's going there too. But I doubt it.

[Harlan Quinn]

Is it possible it's Luthor?

As president, he would have access to all the Suicide Squad's files and there was that strange moment between him and Amanda Waller in a recent issue of Superman/Batman.

He doesn't have the power armor, but maybe he's trying to prove that he's still someone to fear.

[Bahama'at]

I wouldn't get too worried about it just yet. For one, I'm pretty sure Nightwing isn't ending at 100 and also pretty sure that DC's not going to pull something like that unless they let Frank Miller write it. Oh, and if they wanted it to really suck. For examples, see the treatment of Grayson in that godawful trainwreck last issue of the Dark Knight sequel.Actually, it won't matter if he is the murderer or not, if Devon's writing continues to suck this much the title will be cancelled due to lack of sales.

This again from the Nightwing-worshipping roomate who got himself on some elite DC Comics mailing list (mostly for his geography knowledge and contacts with DC authors because of that).

- Ma'at

[Jack]

Actually, it won't matter if he is the murderer or not, if Devon's writing continues to suck this much the title will be cancelled due to lack of sales.

This again from the Nightwing-worshipping roomate who got himself on some elite DC Comics mailing list (mostly for his geography knowledge and contacts with DC authors because of that).

- Ma'at

Yeah, Grayson's writing on the book has been pretty bad. Actually no, her writing is always fine. Its her plotting and story progression that sucks. As far as I can tell, this is nothing new.

[JohnnyCanuck]

Hal's use of "them" might just be further clouding of the issue by using a gender-neutral pronoun. Just want to throw that out to you.

[Jack]

Hal's use of "them" might just be further clouding of the issue by using a gender-neutral pronoun. Just want to throw that out to you.

I thought of that, but then the scene doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Basically Hal says "I can't help." Sure it foreshadows Hal's return, but that didn't need to be in IC.

So I figure there should be a clue in there somewhere. If not, its an unnecessary addition to the book.

[JohnnyCanuck]

Oh, I'm willing to believe it's a clue, I just wanted to toss the other possibility out there. Taken as face value, I think the scene was intended to show that the heroes couldn't just run to their cosmic connections as an easy way to solve the murders.

[Bahama'at]

Yeah, Grayson's writing on the book has been pretty bad. Actually no, her writing is always fine. Its her plotting and story progression that sucks. As far as I can tell, this is nothing new.Well, it still spells trouble for the title.

This whole thing (as well as the movie projects and lackluster new titles) smacks of Warner not really knowing what to do with their IP and beisdes demanding they be profitable, unwilling to put any effort into finding a solution to their current malaise.

What DC really really needs is to make a decision and stick to it. Creating an alternate universe (the much discussed DC Ultimates continuity) would help a lot. Make that all about internal continuity and make sure the writers stick to it - there. Relax the reins a bit on the main titles, let them go back to story over consistancy. And, as an editorial stance, decide what you are going to do with the "writing for the trade" mentality going around - either embrace it (which may mean eventually dropping monthly comics or reducing them in price/quality) or get tough on it and the people who work at that pace.

- Ma'at

[Harlan Quinn]

Is it possible it's Luthor?

As president, he would have access to all the Suicide Squad's files and there was that strange moment between him and Amanda Waller in a recent issue of Superman/Batman.

He doesn't have the power armor, but maybe he's trying to prove that he's still someone to fear.


Hal tells Ollie to "make them pay" in the latest issue and in the first issue we see Luthor's armor and hear them mention "Amazo". What if they're playing a "Purloined Letter"?

Luthor is the brains and Amazo can copy any skill or power in the DC Universe. Together they can reach out and kill anyone they please.

There is also a villain in Flash's Rogue Gallery called "Replicant" who can mimic any type of equipment and he was trying to build a rep for himself. What better way to instill fear that being the one who shattered heroes lives?

[Topher]

Re: Nightwing.

Is Deathwing still around? The Nightwing-from-an-alternate-future, corrupted-by-evil-Raven-and-turned-into-a-murderous-rapist, whoops-I'm-not-really-future-Dick-Grayson-just-someone-brainwashed-into-thinking-so guy?

Topher

[Shameless Poser]

I would be more inclined to think of heavy ties to the Suicide Squad before I would think of ties to the Flash or the Rogues. Digger was a long-term member of the Squad.

You know who else was a member of the Suicide Squad for about, oh, two seconds? Blockbuster. Not THE Blockbuster who was gunning for Nightwing, but his brother. Just a weird fact that probably has nothing to do with anything.

[Wakshaani]

Deathwing's still around, yup.

As for Nightwing?

Gimmie the book.

I will make it sell.

-- Wak

[RobertEdwards]

All Nightwing needs is:

1: Evil Vicious Dick Tracyesqe villians of his vary own to fight.

2: Hot chicks for some soap opera romance action. Oracle, Starfire, and Huntress will do.

3: To gently tell Bruce he's a loon, fuck off and die. Or marry Wonder Woman. Or try to steal Supes from Lois Lane, but most especially quit being such a control freak and leave Dick the heck alone.

[The Scribbler]

3: To gently tell Bruce he's a loon, fuck off and die. Or marry Wonder Woman. Or try to steal Supes from Lois Lane, but most especially quit being such a control freak and leave Dick the heck alone.

Has this really been that big of a problem in his book?

I ask because it hasn't been in the trades I've seen.

[RobertEdwards]

Five Words: Semi-annual Batman Family Crossover Event

Screws the subsidiary books (Nightwing, Robin, Batgirl, Birds Of Prey) story continuity every time.

[Quasar]

Five Words: Semi-annual Batman Family Crossover Event

Screws the subsidiary books (Nightwing, Robin, Batgirl, Birds Of Prey) story continuity every time.

Frankly I think the Gotham books is the one place where cross-overs should work. What with the way the characters are linked to each other.

Though if it was me I'd have a Bat-family title for all those kinds of stories, and smaller stories in all the individual titles.

I don't think Gotham City crossovers have been a problem...now stories that connect Gotham and non-Gotham books together, thats been a problem I think. But then, in many ways Gotham should be in its own little universe.

[blackshirt5]

I'll just say that I can't wait for this to come out in Trades, and I'll hate it if it's Dick Grayson.

[Kurotowa]

I did that re-read I was planning for the issues so far, and here's the clues I've picked out.

1. The killer is targetting wives of JLA members. There's been an attempt at misdirection by the writers. But Sue, Jean, and Lois are all the wives of JLA members. Can someone fill in what relation Superman had to Satalite era JLA? That might help fill in this line.

2. The killer is somehow connected to the Suicide Squad. Dr. Light, Slipknot, Bolt, and Captain Boomerang were all Squad members (sort of, in Bolt's case). It might be an ex-member or someone with access to their material, but there's some relation. Also worthy of note is that Oracle played a major role in the Suicide Squad's later days.

3. The killer is somehow connected to Batman. Batman appears in Light's memory of the Satalite battle but not the version told to Flash and GL, which is one of our major unexplained oddities. And it's mentioned that Bruce helped design the security systems the killer keeps avoiding.

4. The killer seems to have inside knowledge. He is able to bypass the security systems, whose strength is heavily played up. He knows Clark is Superman. He starts with Sue on Ralph's birthday. He says "Goodbye, Sue......" in a way that suggests he is personally familiar with her. This all points to the idea he may be a superhero community member.

5. The killer's abilities are still unknown. He may or may not be a teleporter. So much attention is being put on it I suspect his is not. In another of the unexplained oddities we still don't know the cause of Sue's death, after the burns were determined to be post-mortum. This suggests the killer's powers are enough of a unique signature that if we knew them we'd know his identity.

These are the five main plot points I'm mostly certain aren't red herrings (Luthor & Amazo, Digger's son). Now, they don't add up to anything to me. So I'm hoping someone else with more DC lore will be able to trianguate them into a result. Or maybe contribute a solid clue or two I've overlooked. Thoughts, everyone?

[Shameless Poser]

It wasn't Ralph's birthday.

"Wait... Today's your birthday?"

"No, it's not for months. Sue thinks by doing it early she'll catch me off guard."

[Wakshaani]

Well, lessee. Aside from Amanda Waller and Rick Flagg Jr, the Squad counts as members:

The Atom (KIA)
Black Adam
Black Orchid
Blockbuster (KIA)
Bolt (KIA)
Bronze Tiger
Cameron Chase
Captain Boomerang
Captain Cold
Catalyst
Chronos
Copperhead
Count Vertigo
Deadshot
Doctor Light
Duchess
Enchantress
Enforcer (KIA)
Firehawk
Javelin
Karin Grace (KIA)
Karma (KIA)
Killer Frost
King Shark (KIA)
Knockout
Major Victory (KIA)
Manhunter
Maser
Mindboggler (KIA)
Mister 104 (KIA)
Multiplex (KIA)
Nemesis
Nightshade
Oracle
Outlaw
Parasite
The Penguin
Plastique
Poison Ivy
Privateer
Psi (KIA)
Punch and Jewelee
Ravan (KIA)
Rick Flagg (KIA)
Shade the Changing Man
Shrike (KIA)
Sidearm (KIA)
Silver Swan
Sledge (KIA)
Slipknot
Sportsmaster
Stalnoivolk
The Thinker I & II (I: KIA)
Vixen
Weasel (KIA)
Writer (KIA)

Lex Luthor organized another Suicide Squad during his term as President of the United States of America; this team consisted of Chemo, Manchester Black, Mongul, Plasmus, Shrapnel and Steel (John Henry Irons), and they forcibly recruited Doomsday to battle the alien Imperiex; Mongul, Plasmus and Shrapnel were killed.

Lastly:

A revived Suicide Squad, consisting initially of the members of the former Justice League Antarctica team and led by a Sgt. Rock imposter appeared in the short-lived Suicide Squad volume 2.

Members of Sgt. Rock's Squad (not counting those active in previous incarnations of the Squad):

Big Sir (KIA)
Blackstarr
Bulldozer
Clock King (KIA)
Cluemaster
Havana (KIA)
Larvanaut (KIA)
Major Disaster
Modem (KIA)
Multi-Man
Putty (KIA)
Reactron (KIA)
Solomon Grundy

So, uhm. We've narrowed the list? :)

-- Wak

[Kurotowa]

It wasn't Ralph's birthday.

"Wait... Today's your birthday?"

"No, it's not for months. Sue thinks by doing it early she'll catch me off guard."

Ah, missed that. Then it makes it even more likely it was an inside job. Whoever it was knew about the party and knew Ralph would be away from the house. Thanks for catching that. So who was on the guest list?

*long list snipped*

Like Batman said, it isn't the Squad itself. No motive. There's a link but it doesn't mean the killer was a member.

More importantly, what's the link between Satallite era JLA and the Suicide Squad? I think we might be looking at multiple people, that Hal's "them" really does mean them. Because the clues seem to point to both a hero and a villian.

[Quasar]

For those curious the IGN comics guy looks at Identity Crisis in his latest column.

http://filmforce.ign.com/articles/555/555493p1.html

[Andrew Tatro]

Well, lessee. Aside from Amanda Waller and Rick Flagg Jr, the Squad counts as members:
...
Firehawk
...

-- Wak

I know it isn't likely, but this doesn't settle well in my stomach.

[martikhoras]

You guys did spot Jean Lori's different eyes, right

Blue on People, Green in the now...

blantantly obvious, possibly a red herring its been years they may be contacts... but with that eye detail you'd think that' would come out.

Hmm

[TaoCowboy]

Well, lessee. Aside from Amanda Waller and Rick Flagg Jr, the Squad counts as members:

The Thinker I & II (I: KIA)

So, uhm. We've narrowed the list? :)

-- Wak


Hmmm... coupla posts ago I started to go through SS members and suddnely though....Hey whatever happended to that Carmichael Guy??? (I think that was THinker II' name.

Lets' run his resume shall we.

He was a crazy hacker who implanted cybernetics in his head so he could directly link to computer systems. he could also control the minds of other people.

Basically he hated every one on the squad, Especially Waller and Oracle (Who had cybernetic locks on the ole boy to keep him in check. When they needed him, Oracle unlocked him)

Near the end of the orig SS run Carmichael got loose or was set loose. He didn't die if I recall correctly. Hasn't been seen since (Though this has been a while..so who knows)

Here's my thinking (Pun intended):

1. He hated Oracle. he's a master hacker. Could he have possibly penetrated Oracle's Info-Net? That has a lot of "secret" information on the hero community.
But most of the targets have been "public knowledge" (IE Sue Dibny and Jean Loring were both attached to heroes with Pub ID's). However, the whole scandal over the release of RAy palmer's ID as the Atom did occur during the Thinker's tenure with the SS.... (Brainstorming here)

2. The Thinker's mindcontrol powers would allow him to commit the murder's without actually commiting them...or even the actual "killer" knowing about it. Maybe Dr. Light DID kill Sue...but due to mental manipulation doesn't remember....
Only problem here is that his powers had a VERY short range (10 to 15 feet)...which causes some complications. Though He might have improved them in the interim.

3. The other problem. while The Thinker II might have some motivation and ability... he is an extremely minor character. This however, supports the "them" theory (Based on Hal's comments). Myabe he is working for somone else...like Luthor mayhaps??? Luthor has the intelligence and equipment to hook a tech junkie like Carmichael up.

4. I could just be fucking insane.

Nap now...

[RobertEdwards]

Chip Carmichael -- originally the Brainy Bully from the original run of Firestorm.

Interesting, but not really a silver age villian.

[Jeffwik]

Big Sir and the Clock King are dead? That makes my brain sad.

[FunGuyFromYuggoth]

Stupid thought for the day...

Batman/Bruce Wayne is the killer. Nightwing's getting cancelled so Dick can take over as Batman.
Or not.

[Geoffrey21]

Big Sir and the Clock King are dead? That makes my brain sad.

Yeah but they died in a non-important series doing non-important things. They may have even been killed by ants. I'm sure eventually Major Disaster (who will be sick of playing the hero) and Multi-Man will team up and require the aid of their former colleagues and will venture in to Hell to rescue them. Only to find, of course, that they aren't even in Hell. Hell didn't want them. Wackiness will ensue, leading to the nigh-destruction of the Judeo-Christian afterworld and the expulsion of the entire Injustice League.

Guest starring Blue Devil and Zauriel.

[Shameless Poser]

Yeah but they died in a non-important series doing non-important things. They may have even been killed by ants. I'm sure eventually Major Disaster (who will be sick of playing the hero) and Multi-Man will team up and require the aid of their former colleagues and will venture in to Hell to rescue them. Only to find, of course, that they aren't even in Hell. Hell didn't want them. Wackiness will ensue, leading to the nigh-destruction of the Judeo-Christian afterworld and the expulsion of the entire Injustice League.

Guest starring Blue Devil and Zauriel.

I'd buy it.

[JohnnyCanuck]

SPOILER!

























I read my store's preview copy of Firestorm #6 today. Ronnie Raymond doesn't make it out of Identity Crisis #5 alive. Shadow Thief does him in with some kind of an odd sword.