If I was remaking Chrono Trigger

[martikhoras]

I'm on a Chrono binge. Conpendium, the novel project, the loss of Ressurection, waiting for break and justifying the inconsisticies and trying to undo the horror that was Chrono Cross. I am sick of apologising for that game. I have tons of old games in my posession. Cross was one of the few I paid retail I bought a slew of cards for it.

I saved tons of files. The game so disappointed, so frustrated, so made me sick i've near deleted all of them and can't find the strength to replay it. I'm still caca about PE II and even Alundra 2. Chrono Cross I want it gone.

But this isn't about Chrono Cross being a sucky sucky soul sucky sequel with cute to killer ideas it denies me access to no real 40 plus character cast where I see three or four alternate spell lists and oops now they're gone cause of some fucking aggravatingly overly long plot twist. Travel between dimensions. Only two and they consist really of maybe four locations until you're on the railroad quest. And why are you doing this? Don't know... okay but at least everyone's growing together. Yeah we included a threadbare shoehorned character issue for each "character" that really just rigamole to get their level 7/or so techs.

Ahem.. topic.. damn it.. topic.

A group of gamers attempted without license to make a 3D version of Chrono Trigger, called Ressurection. It got shutdown.

But really at much effort all that rendering must have been I gotta say the graphics are the very LEAST thing I'd want to change about Chrono Trigger. If I was remaking that puppy and if it was a labor of love and I had say moderate to ungodly expenses? I wouldn't port to 3d.

I'd want to yank and drop the pupp a more involved battle engine.

[Jonas Albrecht]

I'd want to yank and drop the pupp a more involved battle engine.

What does that mean?

[Broken]

What does that mean?

I think it's a euphemism for sex.

[Stephenls]

What does that mean?

"The pup" is a reference to the game (see "If I was remaking that puppy"), so the sentence should be read "I'd want to yank and drop [the game] a more involved battle engine." In other words, he'd like to yank a more involved battle engine from another game and drop it into his Chrono Trigger remake.

...

Hmm.

If I were remaking Chrono Trigger?

I don't think I would. For me, a lot of the appeal of the game is its immediate simplicity. Battles are straightforward; areas are relatively small; the plot, for all its time travelling, is as linear as any modern Final Fantasy game.

I like Chrono Trigger because it gets straight down to business and lets you progress. The story is cool and there's not a lot to distract from it. Where to go next is seldom unclear, and all in all, the game refrains from overwhelming the player with options.

I'd keep that.

It doesn't seem to me there's a lot you could upgrade for a remake. The graphics, maybe, but even then not really, as current graphics tend to be really too cluttered and gaudy and distracting for my taste. Making the battle system more complex would render it tedious. Making the areas more involved or explorable or interactive would just be unnecessary feature creep, making the game more complex with little added fun value.

...

I don't know. I like it a lot like it is. I really don't have anything I'd want to change.

[Jonas Albrecht]

I'm not suer it's possible to have a better battle engine than Chrono Trigger's.

[NPC Jeremy]

I think everyone in the game needs to be digitally replaced by Ewoks.

[J Arcane]

I personally would be all for a version that removed the ATB system, and went pure turn-based.

Beyond that, can't think of anything. Always rather liked that game, and definitely preferred it to the FF games.

[AliasiSudonomo]

I personally would be all for a version that removed the ATB system, and went pure turn-based.


That already exists. It's called "wait" mode.

No, really. It's as turn-based as anything you'd care to name without going for "your turn, my turn" tactics.

[J Arcane]

That already exists. It's called "wait" mode.

No, really. It's as turn-based as anything you'd care to name without going for "your turn, my turn" tactics.

I am familiar with wait mode. It's not turn-based, not in the sense of what I'm thinking of.

You still find yourself sitting there, staring at those little meters, waiting for them to charge so you can actually fucking do something.

It's not necessarily the real-timeness that bothers me, it's the waiting.

[AliasiSudonomo]

I am familiar with wait mode. It's not turn-based, not in the sense of what I'm thinking of.

You still find yourself sitting there, staring at those little meters, waiting for them to charge so you can actually fucking do something.

It's not necessarily the real-timeness that bothers me, it's the waiting.

Eh, I can see your point. On the other hand, it's not far into the game that I find the turns for my characters come up faster than my reflexes can give commands; with the exception of the really slow characters like Robo there's isn't a lot of practical difference.

I mean, a mode to make it more like Final Fantasy Tactics or some other "perpetual round" system wouldn't be a bad idea, but it just never bothered me that much. Whereas clearly, it bothered you. Knowing this, we can move on to more productive topics such as "how many times you need to run through the game to get EVERYBODY their Rainbow Shell equipment". :)

[RedFox]

I'm not suer it's possible to have a better battle engine than Chrono Trigger's.

Chrono Trigger's my favorite CRPG of all time, and I give it props for the nifty, super-simple battle system but...

well...

honestly, if you're rating battle system alone, I'd have to say I love Grandia's best.

http://www-personal.umd.umich.edu/~jgossiau/Pictures/Grandia_Pics/Grandia%20beatdown.JPG

[martikhoras]

pretty much uhm the guy with the icon with the glassess is right (its late I haven't slept)

The battle engine I'd drop? Chrono Trigger is about a little tactics as well as powers during battle. I would change only one thing but it would really require a whole redesign.

Instead of the PCs being stuck in place unless the enemies move them or to pose for techs...

I'd have it so they can all movie if you pres L1 and L2 and then move them. The drawback is that it reverses or just losws down the atb bar or whatever its called.But this lets you position for slight advantages to use techs. And it gives another aspect to differiate characters. Robo could always move no matter his ATB level, frog could hop/bypass enemies, Ayla...can use some of her techs for "free" if you do some nice comboing/movements, etc.

That's what I really really would want to change.

[Xeno]

I second the call for Grandia's battle system.

Frankly, Grandia is the one of the few rpgs whose battle system is actually fun.

[Ratman_tf]

I'm on a Chrono binge. Conpendium, the novel project, the loss of Ressurection, waiting for break and justifying the inconsisticies and trying to undo the horror that was Chrono Cross. I am sick of apologising for that game. I have tons of old games in my posession. Cross was one of the few I paid retail I bought a slew of cards for it.

I saved tons of files. The game so disappointed, so frustrated, so made me sick i've near deleted all of them and can't find the strength to replay it. I'm still caca about PE II and even Alundra 2. Chrono Cross I want it gone.

But this isn't about Chrono Cross being a sucky sucky soul sucky sequel with cute to killer ideas it denies me access to no real 40 plus character cast where I see three or four alternate spell lists and oops now they're gone cause of some fucking aggravatingly overly long plot twist. Travel between dimensions. Only two and they consist really of maybe four locations until you're on the railroad quest. And why are you doing this? Don't know... okay but at least everyone's growing together. Yeah we included a threadbare shoehorned character issue for each "character" that really just rigamole to get their level 7/or so techs.



I rather liked Chrono Cross.

[/Threadcrap]

[Jonas Albrecht]

The battle engine I'd drop? Chrono Trigger is about a little tactics as well as powers during battle.

How do you figure?

[Lazarus]

My favourite CRPG combat system is from Xenosaga. Love it. That said, I love Chrono Trigger the way it is, and wouldn't change it. Haven't played Cross yet.

Laz

[Stephenls]

I want to be playing Chrono Trigger right now. I could really get into an assault on the Black Omen at the moment. I love that giant flying obsidian obelisk.

[Malestrithe]

Personally, I loved playing Chrono Cross. I was able to play the game from beginning to end W/o falling into the trap that many people seem to fall into. I did not make a side by side comparison to Chrono Trigger while I was playing it. I did not waste time asking ridiculous questions like "Is Glenn Frog," "Where the heck is Chrono, Marle, and the rest of the original cast," or "Can you take the Epoch out of the tower's basement." I just played the game and I judged it on its own merits. I was not disapointed.

Now for a remake, I would not try one. I like the game just the way it is. I would like to see it rereleased on a pocket gaming system with a few extra's.

[Mr. Teapot]

"Where the heck is Chrono, Marle, and the rest of the original cast," or "Can you take the Epoch out of the tower's basement."

Which is, really, a pretty silly thing to expect out of a company that at the time didn't do straight sequels (would anyone play Final Fantasy X and ask where the cast of FF (X - 1) is?)

Now for a remake, I would not try one. I like the game just the way it is. I would like to see it rereleased on a pocket gaming system with a few extra's.

Crapping on a sequel and then proposing remaking the original shows a certain discontinuity in thinking. The reason the sequel is disappointing is because recapturing what madkes a game perfect is nearly impossible; remaking a game is as likely to lose the special qualities of a game as making a sequel (if not more, as direct comparisons aren't implied, they are demanded), and if professional game designers can't get it right, I doubt us untrained folks on the internet will.

But yeah, I'd really like to see CT for GBA (or DS, if necessary, though it'd be a waste of the system). If Chrono Cross had come out a few years later (and for the Gamecube), we'd have Chrono Trigger for GBA, with cool link capabilities of some sort, and that'd be awesome. But just having a portable CT would be pretty sweet by itself.

[martikhoras]

I did NONE of those things with Chrono Cross.

I did the opposite I was waiting for the game to tell me things. To lead me through story about different worlds and decisions that lead to various consequences.

There were excellent ideas, plot ideas, that are presented in the worst way for either novel or game that mean nothing but make you feel like you're being lead by the nose.

Heck less connection or complete divorce from the previous game would rock because I was in a gameworld that didn't explain why the heck we were doing anything at all until seconds before the final battle. I was in a game that promised you tons of characters and punished you for getting them in the first half by ripping them away. And forbid you for getting them again until it made you go through a quest that went on forever and nevery really invoked anything but a constant sense of go from one to the other.

The game was a failure because it was poorly made and had some slight good ideas executed poorly NOT because it didn't star the Chrono kids not because of any of the other things said. People who dislike Chrono Cross aren't just smallminded fanboys.

Okay I admit.. there was one thing I think they really screwwed up for the sequel, techs. There were virtually none. And if you didn't go off course to an island you were told would hate you you can't get the elements that are strong enough to do anything when the quest to the dead sea starts.

[David J Prokopetz]

I'm not suer it's possible to have a better battle engine than Chrono Trigger's.I don't know - I always found it vaguely annoying how some techs depend on where your character is standing, and you can't move your characters voluntarily. Or those situations where the enemy has a powerful attack with a small area of effect, and the game will sometimes stick all of your characters clustered together in a tight little group so everybody gets nailed.

In short, I would have liked the option to move your characters. ^^;

[martikhoras]

Bumped for no reason at all

[Dorchadas]

I don't know - I always found it vaguely annoying how some techs depend on where your character is standing, and you can't move your characters voluntarily. Or those situations where the enemy has a powerful attack with a small area of effect, and the game will sometimes stick all of your characters clustered together in a tight little group so everybody gets nailed.

In short, I would have liked the option to move your characters. ^^;

That's pretty much the only thing I'd change in a remake.

Well...a graphical update, but not too much of one.

[Funkadelic]

I'm gonna have to join the actually liking Chrono Cross boat. It wasn't a video game masterpiece like Chrono Trigger, but it was fun and held my interest. As far as I'm concerned that's all that matters.

A complete remake of Chrono Trigger would probaly destroy everything about the game. It was simple, direct, quick, and told a good story. Moving chracters would be the only gameplay aspect that needed changing, and maybe a graphic update so it looked like Dragon Quest 8. But Chrono Trigger was good enough on it's own that it really doesn't need anything to continues to make it enjoyable.

[Tumbleweed]

Me, I really can't see Chrono Trigger getting uptaded into 3-D and looking as good. I'm sure you could do something with cel-shading or whatever, but I'm still impartial to the sprites.

As such, the implausable thing that -I- would do would be to first put Chrono Trigger on a PS2 disc, maybe even with the animated cutscenes from the PS1 port as a bonus.

Then? I'd use the rest of the room on the disc to cram in a sequel game- that would still be 16-bit sprites and what have you. In doing so, one could use the rest of the disc to add in another BAJILLION hours of gameplay (yes, a bajillion. I've done the math) in a game along the same lines.

Maybe something in which one gets to play Marle & Crono's children (amongst other legacies, and maybe a returning character or two. Maybe toss in Ozzie or something, just for kicks) who embark upon a time-hopping quest to set things right(tm)- often through making quantum-leap-esque little changes behind the scenes to make sure everything from the first game goes right. For example, one mission might be to get the guard at the prison tower drunk, so Crono and Lucca can gank his keys and make their escape.

And then, as a kicker, I'd make these changes noticeable in the original Chrono Trigger, for only the wary-eyed to look out for. "Did anyone notice how most of these shopkeepers look the same?"

[CasperLions]

Update the graphics. Stay sprites, not 3-D models, but go for more along the lines of the original Valkery Profile.

The afforementioned movement option in combat. Should it take up AP? I don't think battles should be entirely free movement though, or else that would introduce an AI aspect into characters you aren't controlling that I don't even want to get into.

Have Chrono talk! I'm fine with the plot, the gameplay, and so on. It's not like I'm asking for non-linear options based around choosing what to say, I just want Chrono to speak in the little story sequences like everyoen else.

Voiceovers. If you can get quality voiceactors this would be great. And you could have some dialogue in battles, like battlecries linked to specific techs and multitechs, even if it's just a yell or another noise of emphasis sometimes.

And introducing a few more optional quests at the end of the game along with the Motherbrain, Sunstone, and Rainbow Shell wouldn't hurt.

If you somehow made the game longer, though that would mean adding so much new material that it could potentially make the game a lot worst (or it might not, depending on how well you wove it into the original story) then you could increase the number of techs and thus multitechs available, and have a skill-tree system where you use experience to buy techs and theres several different paths. So if you wanted Marle to focus entirely on healing and buffs or branch out into bow attacks and charm, or Robo to concentrate on physical or laser(shadow) attacks you could. This could add character customization and increase the replayability, so if you want to go back and do a side-quest that you missed like the Rainbow Shell you can at least play with different techs if you wish.

[Arnino Storm]

I'm gonna have to join the actually liking Chrono Cross boat. It wasn't a video game masterpiece like Chrono Trigger, but it was fun and held my interest. As far as I'm concerned that's all that matters.

Strangely, for me, it was the opposite. Trigger was fun and held my interest, while Cross was the Masterpiece. Sitll, YMMV and all that.

Nah, can't say I see a Trigger remake. Maybe re-do it on a portable system, with slightly updated graphics and music, but not much else. Cross, maybe, could work with better graphics. But Trigger, it'd be pretty hard to do while keeping it the same game.

[JdRavnos]

As far as graphic updates, I'd retain the 2d sprite look, but try to smooth it out some. Give the characters more poses, expressions, etc, animation is more smoother and more fluid.

Gameplay wise, I'd change very little, other then, as others have said, possibly giving the option to move during combat. I'm not against the idea of additional sidequests though, as long as they were handled well. Maybe some stuff that can't be done until you unlock a certain ending.

Storywise I wouldn't want to change a thing.

Oh and I enjoyed Chrono Cross as well, though I do generally seperate it in my mind as a seperate entity from Chrono Trigger. It's a fun game, maybe not a great game, but it has a certain lighthearted charm.

[Furious Fish]

I can honestly and without the slightest trace of hyperbole say that I wouldn't change a goddamn thing.

[Milk]

I can honestly and without the slightest trace of hyperbole say that I wouldn't change a goddamn thing.

I was kind of nodding my head to the comments like this in this thread, half-listening to them in the way that I usually do to the praise (deserved or not) heaped on well-loved games, when it actually struck me how true this is. Even with Final Fantasy VI, which I actually enjoy a bit better, there are aspects that I wish were changed or expanded upon. Not so with Chrono Trigger: even if I don't like it quite as much, it has an incredible sense of completeness to it. That wholeness is, in itself, a very important aesthetic aspect of the experience, which I never really thought about before now.

[Peter Svensson]

I'd let them add the elements to the game that were planned but never completed. Schala as a playable character, a few other dungeons (code for which still partially exists in the game), and the End of Time being a crystalline palace.

Probably want them to add yet an additional ending. Just because.

[Ayiekie]

Even more than moving, I think it'd be nice if a remake actually, y'know, finished the Janus/Schala plotline. And a couple of other plot loose ends.

Other than that, Chrono Trigger is indeed a game that really had very few flaws. Still not my favourite of the 16-bit era (that will always and forever be Phantasy Star IV, and why the hell can't they make any actual PS RPGs along with all that MMORPG crap, or at least finish the remakes and put them out here already, geez, grumble grumble), and I think a tad overrated, but a fine game.

[fearthehat]

The only change I would make would be giving Crono a voice. I certainly wouldn't let them change the End of Time, which in my opinion is one of the best designed areas in any game.

[David J Prokopetz]

The only change I would make would be giving Crono a voice.Conversely, I wouldn't. The "silent protagonist" is a very effective device for encouraging player identification.

[Peter LaCara]

Well, y'all got me playing Chrono Trigger again. Thanks for that.

[ascendance]

I'd remake it for the DS.

That is all.

EDIT: Make stat info show up in the top window, letting the bottom window fully display the game world and characters. Use the stylus to drag-move characters during battle. That should be a fair conversion, and I'd be happy with that. More stylus integration would be nice, but not entirely necessary.

Damn, I want to play Chrono Trigger again.

[darktalon]

I was kind of nodding my head to the comments like this in this thread, half-listening to them in the way that I usually do to the praise (deserved or not) heaped on well-loved games, when it actually struck me how true this is. Even with Final Fantasy VI, which I actually enjoy a bit better, there are aspects that I wish were changed or expanded upon. Not so with Chrono Trigger: even if I don't like it quite as much, it has an incredible sense of completeness to it. That wholeness is, in itself, a very important aesthetic aspect of the experience, which I never really thought about before now.

There's a new version of FF6 being released for the GBA next year with improved graphics, additional content and (I think) retranslated and decensored. It would be cool if they did something similar with CT. :)

[David J Prokopetz]

There's a new version of FF6 being released for the GBA next year with improved graphics, additional content and (I think) retranslated and decensored.Does this mean we North Americans finally get to see Dark Angel Kefka in the buff? :D

[fearthehat]

Conversely, I wouldn't. The "silent protagonist" is a very effective device for encouraging player identification

Thing is, I feel that most RPGs (console RPGs, in particular) benefit from having an actively developed lead character as it allows stories to be more personality/character driven and in turn makes individual characters more likeable. CT does a great job of developing the characters that talk (Lucca in particular) but in my opinion Crono feels tacked on - and really, how many people actually put themself in Crono's position while playing the game? Silent protagonists are good in some games (I can't imagine Gordon Freeman talking)but I think they work less well here.

[Mortimer]

and really, how many people actually put themself in Crono's position while playing the game?

*Quietly raises hand*

[Maksim]

and really, how many people actually put themself in Crono's position while playing the game?

*Raises hand too*

[Funkadelic]

T - and really, how many people actually put themself in Crono's position while playing the game?

*cough*
raises hand
*cough*

[David J Prokopetz]

and really, how many people actually put themself in Crono's position while playing the game?You'd be surprised. The silent protagonist is the only thing that works for us immersionist gamers.

[Tumbleweed]

- and really, how many people actually put themself in Crono's position while playing the game?





When I first played the game, I named Marle after the girl I was kinda crushing on at the time. Does that count?

Though when I re-played the game more recently, I realized that Lucca was where it's at. Geek girls FTW.

[fearthehat]

Gee, guess I underestimated how many people identified with Crono. My apologies. You discover great new things about this game every time it is discussed...

Myself, I find that characters like Justin from Grandia 1 are easier to identify with.

[Ratoslov]

I wouldn't remake Chrono Trigger at all. The game's a artifact of it's time. Remaking it would make it lose a lot of it's charm.

Now, a actual sequal that learns from what worked in the original, that I could get behind.

[Peter Svensson]

Myself, I find that characters like Justin from Grandia 1 are easier to identify with.

:eek: I couldn't identify with Justin at all. I wanted to kill the bastard. "All right! Big Win For Us" was enough to make me give up on the game, despite the cool combat system.

[Stephenls]

I wouldn't remake Chrono Trigger at all. The game's a artifact of it's time. Remaking it would make it lose a lot of it's charm.

Now, a actual sequal that learns from what worked in the original, that I could get behind.

I would probably cheat, and make a game that is simultaneously a remake of Chrono Trigger and a sequel to Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross.

Time travel and paradoxes and such allow for that sort of thing.

[AWOL Joe]

I would probably cheat, and make a game that is simultaneously a remake of Chrono Trigger and a sequel to Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross.

Time travel and paradoxes and such allow for that sort of thing.

Oh yes. Flawless idea.

I think I actually came up with something similar once...

-AWOL Joe

[Ulam]

Does anything in Chrono Trigger warrant a total overhaul? As it stands, CT is one of the best console RPGs of the 16-bit era for a multitude of reasons, one of those reasons being that it had very few flaws.

If I were hog-tied and forced to pick, however, the only thing I'd change would be improving the original Japanese to English translation with the possibility of including more text boxes to flesh out the story even more than it was previously.

C'mon, you've got all of these reasons to adore and love the original Chrono Trigger - a slew of different endings, functional combat system, time travel, player and non-player characters that aren't all pretty and similar-looking, a very solid set of antagonists...need I go on?

[Peter LaCara]

When I first played the game, I named Marle after the girl I was kinda crushing on at the time. Does that count?

Though when I re-played the game more recently, I realized that Lucca was where it's at. Geek girls FTW.
I dunno, man. The Tomboy Princess is pretty awesome. She's sitting there in a post-apocalyptic future, watching a video of Cthulu destroying the world, and her very first reaction is, "Fuck that noise. C'mon, Crono. Let's go back and kick that thing's ass!"

Chrono Trigger has a lot of surprisingly strong female characters, I just realized. Not one of them is a waifish girl waiting to be rescued.

[Dorchadas]

I dunno, man. The Tomboy Princess is pretty awesome. She's sitting there in a post-apocalyptic future, watching a video of Cthulu destroying the world, and her very first reaction is, "Fuck that noise. C'mon, Crono. Let's go back and kick that thing's ass!"

Chrono Trigger has a lot of surprisingly strong female characters, I just realized. Not one of them is a waifish girl waiting to be rescued.

I think that scene is what made me want Crono and friends to succeed so much at saving the world. Unlike a lot of RPGs, Chrono Trigger shows you exactly what will happen if you fail to kill the bad guy.

Seeing the world around Robo in the "let's find the cat" ending made it all worthwhile. :)

[David J Prokopetz]

I think that scene is what made me want Crono and friends to succeed so much at saving the world. Unlike a lot of RPGs, Chrono Trigger shows you exactly what will happen if you fail to kill the bad guy.That, and the ending cinematic you get if you challenge Lavos early and lose. I don't know anyone who didn't immediately save their game and take the gate in the bucket, just to see what would happen.

[AWOL Joe]

That, and the ending cinematic you get if you challenge Lavos early and lose. I don't know anyone who didn't immediately save their game and take the gate in the bucket, just to see what would happen.

...But the Future Refused to Change.

[Mentally insert Lavos SFX here]

-AWOL Joe

[Peter Svensson]

...But the Future Refused to Change.

[Mentally insert Lavos SFX here]
That freaked the HELL out of me as a kid. That was SUCH a screwed up ending.

[Stephenls]

The "Lavos rains fire from the heavens" sound effect is playing on loop in my head now. You know, the one where if you challenge him too early, he just does his attack that does 9999 damage to everyone in your party three times in a row?

[David J Prokopetz]

The "Lavos rains fire from the heavens" sound effect is playing on loop in my head now. You know, the one where if you challenge him too early, he just does his attack that does 9999 damage to everyone in your party three times in a row?I believe the in-battle cue is actually "destruction rains from the heavens".

But yes, I know what you mean. It's a bit of a rush later in the game when you realise you're actually powerful enough to shrug that thing off. :D