Edit: What should be forum copped? [Archive]

Darren MacLennan

01-06-2002, 02:08 PM

There's been a lot of discussion about making me the forum cop, including a lot of people expressing doubt about whether I'll be able to keep the power from going to my head and so on and so forth.

This will be much easier than you think it will, because I'm guilty of just about every sin that would have moderators coming down on me in a stricter forum. I swear like a sailor, I flame like a wolverine coming down from a meth jag, and I've occasionally posted OT stuff. (Well, not much, but you get the idea.)

So the moderation is probably going to be of the order of switching ads, and not much else.

Just so that we can put all of our eggs into one basket, I'm going to reprint some of the stuff that I put into the thread labelled "Fight the MAN!".

Well, basically, here's how I intend to run it.

---->>>I'm going to let flame wars go as long as they like, unless it gets REALLY boring or REALLY
bad. I've been at the heart of more thermonuclear exchanges than I can personally count, so
I'd be a hypocrite by stopping flamewars.

KC will be allowed to post, but if it's not related to role-playing, over to Tangency it goes.
He's his own worst enemy; hiding what he writes only damages me.

However, ads and open promo stuff gets thrown over to the ads and open promo forum in a
hurry; if it's particularly obnoxious, like a turdlet from Titan Games, I'll just flush it outright.

As per the standard, I will be getting into the shitfights. I'm the moderator, not Jesus.

I'm still messing with this moderation stuff. I'm also doing some more work with moving
threads and what not. Hopefully, I won't mess anything up.

Too badly.

I'm still messing with the forum controls - moving threads, copying them, pasting them and
so forth. If your post winds up wandering down a highway in New Mexico flayed and with its
underwear wrapped around its head - well, my bad.

Also, meta-discussion about the forums goes in the main forum, just because it's easier to
see there and because Tangency doesn't connote the fundemental importance of these forums. <<<-----

So - does that sound okay with everybody?

-Darren MacLennan

UDog

01-06-2002, 02:12 PM

It could have been *me* as Thought Police...

Dave.

EldritchHeart

01-06-2002, 02:42 PM

Sounds cool to me. I don't envy your job; from the things I've seen on the old forum, some people are persistant around here :)

Caduceus

01-06-2002, 02:45 PM

The use of the term "thought police" would imply that RPGnet were a government, not data contained on a privately owned computer.

As a matter of curiosity, how long are you going to keep these posts stickified? Neither of them are about RPGs.

As for moderation, as long as it is for shunting topics to the right forum I am all for it. Anything else is too much.

And for all those negative people out there who worried about the superhero thread, it has generated a lot of very nice discussion. I am glad it was asked this time and given some room to breathe! Even if it was initially posted as a joke. ;)

Jocelyn Robitaille

01-06-2002, 03:08 PM

Howdy-doo!

I'm all for moving posts where they belong, but establishing where different type of posts belong might be useful. Having a page that clearly states those guidelines would be useful too.

For instance, we all know that politics generally belong to the tangency forum, or that ads definitely belong to the Ads/Promo forum.

But let's say I want to post about this cool underground movie I saw. Considering how this movie can be a source of inspiration for a game for someone somewhere, where does this post belong? Main forum, or tangency?

The beauty of RPGs is that almost anything can be an inspiration source. How does one decide if the post is on-topic or off-topic? Do I need to use that funky command to write in bold and write "This can serve as an inspiration source for a RPG" in order to be on-topic? If that's the case, then KC can also use that excuse, considering how politics sometimes enter some people's games.

With the exception of SPAM and non-RPG related debates, deciding what belongs to another forum is not as simple as it might sound.

This said, I'd like to have some guidelines on how Mr. ForumCop means to pass judgement on such issues.

For the record, if I have to write in bold that what I'm saying can be related to RPGs like you were all idiots, I'm likely to take my marbles elsewhere. Same thing if any post that doesn't have "RPG" in it is moved to the Tangency forum.

Jocelyn

P.S.: What about posts on the forum, like this one or the whining about Chapino. Where does *those* belong?

Denys

01-06-2002, 03:15 PM

Thanks for your comments; I'm sure you'll do a fine job. If you have to be an Evil Overlord with some people/posts, I support that.

- Ian

Darren MacLennan

01-06-2002, 03:28 PM

I moved your commercial post to the Ads/Open Promo forum - or I will, at least, once I get it out of the Tangency forum.

I'll assume that it's an honest misunderstanding. :->

-Darren MacLennan

S. John Ross

01-06-2002, 03:30 PM

It was a typo. I meant "good luck with the gig!" I think a key got stuck.

Darren MacLennan

01-06-2002, 03:37 PM

Originally posted by Jocelyn Robitaille
Howdy-doo!

I'm all for moving posts where they belong, but establishing where different type of posts belong might be useful. Having a page that clearly states those guidelines would be useful too.

For instance, we all know that politics generally belong to the tangency forum, or that ads definitely belong to the Ads/Promo forum.

But let's say I want to post about this cool underground movie I saw. Considering how this movie can be a source of inspiration for a game for someone somewhere, where does this post belong? Main forum, or tangency?

The beauty of RPGs is that almost anything can be an inspiration source. How does one decide if the post is on-topic or off-topic? Do I need to use that funky command to write in bold and write "This can serve as an inspiration source for a RPG" in order to be on-topic? If that's the case, then KC can also use that excuse, considering how politics sometimes enter some people's games.

With the exception of SPAM and non-RPG related debates, deciding what belongs to another forum is not as simple as it might sound.

This said, I'd like to have some guidelines on how Mr. ForumCop means to pass judgement on such issues.

For the record, if I have to write in bold that what I'm saying can be related to RPGs like you were all idiots, I'm likely to take my marbles elsewhere. Same thing if any post that doesn't have "RPG" in it is moved to the Tangency forum.

Jocelyn

P.S.: What about posts on the forum, like this one or the whining about Chapino. Where does *those* belong?

To be perfectly honest, I'd like to let the forum decide. Make it democratic.

If enough people say that movie discussions should be in Tangency, then to Tangency they shall go. If not, they stay in the main forum.

I trust the forum. I trust its residents. I think that we do a good job of policing ourselves, but we need somebody to enforce the more persnickety stuff.

Somebody else mentioned whether meta-discussion about the forums belonged in the main RPG forum; I'm going to argue that they do. Sandy seems to think so, at least. And I'll keep them stickied for, say...a month, just so that everybody can see how things are going to work out. I'll remove it sooner if the discussion flags.

-Darren MacLennan

Jocelyn Robitaille

01-06-2002, 03:45 PM

Well, you can't argue with democracy (ironically)!

I like your list of duties thus far, so keep up the good job, I guess! :)

Jocelyn

S. John Ross

01-06-2002, 03:48 PM

Can't argue with it, but you can ask "when?" I agree that it'd be nice to know right now whether X topic goes in such-and-such a forum ... So, if it's to be demoracy, set up a specific thread or a series of polls or something and lets get a starting point. Without some kind of baseline, the potential for confusion, inconsistent application, and hard feelings is multiplied.

Jocelyn Robitaille

01-06-2002, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by Sjohn
Without some kind of baseline, the potential for confusion, inconsistent application, and hard feelings is multiplied.

Hey! Without the multiplication of misunderstandings, double-standards and long-standing grudges, it wouldn't be RPG.net anymore!

You wouldn't want the forums to become nice, would you? :D

Joce

S. John Ross

01-06-2002, 04:03 PM

Well, of course not, but if EVERYONE becomes equally snarky, I won't feel all special and loved anymore :)

Mytholder

01-06-2002, 04:04 PM

For what it's worth - anything that isn't immediately relevant to gaming should go over to Tangency or ads/promo - and that should, for the most part, include "meta" discussions about the boards.

S. John Ross

01-06-2002, 04:14 PM

I agree, but the Forum Cop has already declared that not to be so, and I got the feeling that democracy isn't being extended to that particular subject :)

Bahama'at

01-06-2002, 04:20 PM

Well, for my part my reservations have nothing to do with what you might do but what you have done (and not done) in the past.

Your desire to participate in slugfests is problematic - hard to appear to be unbiased and get into the trenches slinging mud. I see it as a choice - either play with us, or be the playground teacher - you can't be both.

Darren MacLennan

01-06-2002, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by Tiama'at
Well, for my part my reservations have nothing to do with what you might do but what you have done (and not done) in the past.

Your desire to participate in slugfests is problematic - hard to appear to be unbiased and get into the trenches slinging mud. I see it as a choice - either play with us, or be the playground teacher - you can't be both.

I'm not going to get involved in moderating slugfests or flamewars. Not unless everybody starts demanding that I close the thread 'cause it's been going on for too long. That means, I think, that I can flail around without inflicting too much damage on my credibility.

For the moment, I'm confining my kind attentions to commercials and shifting obvious Tangency stuff to the Tangency forum.

-Darren MacLennan

S. John Ross

01-06-2002, 04:37 PM

For the moment, I'm confining my kind attentions to commercials and shifting obvious Tangency stuff to the Tangency forum.

The question of the hour remains: What is "obvious" Tangency stuff? I mean, we can all guess that a post entirely about fixing a lawn mower engine, with no relation even implied to gaming, would be Tangency ... But there's a vast grey area and it would be nice, in advance, to have at least a fleeting notion of where the line is, so as not to be unpleasantly surprised when we're suddenly informed that we've crossed it :)

Dave Shayne

01-06-2002, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by Jocelyn Robitaille

P.S.: What about... the whining about Chapino. Where does *those* belong?

I think Chapino should have a forum all to his/her self :D

S. John Ross

01-06-2002, 04:49 PM

And, to clarify: I'm not one of the folks who dislikes the idea of a forum cop. Far from it. I have no problem with my posts being moved. What disturbs me is the concept of being SURPRISED by it, or worse, seeing one of my off-topic posts moved while another's off-topic post ISN'T moved, and not understanding why. Again, there's a lot of potential for confusion and ill-feeling, and while letting "democracy" decide is all well and good, the forums are active now, so when can we kick democracy into action and start deciding?

Frankly, I'd be just as happy with something arbitrary. I just want to know the lay of the landscape; I don't feel any particular need to plant the shrubs :) Either way, guidelines of some kind are needed.

Marion Poliquin

01-06-2002, 04:54 PM

Originally posted by Tiama'at
Your desire to participate in slugfests is problematic - hard to appear to be unbiased and get into the trenches slinging mud.

For my part, I think we can tackle any problems of that nature when and if they arise.

Good luck with your new responsibilities, Darren.

Levekius

01-06-2002, 05:05 PM

So far, so good, Darren. I can say I dig your methods and democratic ways. :cool:

Corporate Dog

01-06-2002, 05:18 PM

First, I hate the fact that you see 'ads' as intrinsically more off-topic then a lot of the crap that gets thrown around this forum.

Not to single him out, but I always thought that Gamer's Market's interviews belonged SQUARELY in Tangency. Maybe a large percentage of people here DID like them, but to play favorites like that DOES NOT strike me as a fair way to handle it.

On the flip side, there are some 'ads' which have more substance to them than your average 'How old is everyone?' post. Maybe someday I'll actually finish my Great American RPG Rulebook, and be so proud of myself that I want to shout it from the rafters, and post something about it in the main forum. Chances are that what I post will be far more than just the price, where to buy it, and the ISBN number; I defer to the Jaffe brothers' (hey, where have THOSE guys been lately?) series of postings on The Last Exodus as an example. Lots of posts which were (without a doubt) meant to publicize their game, but which also gave us an inside view of the process behind the creation of the game, and a glimpse into their thoughts and feelings.

To throw something like that into the cesspool that is ads/promos seems heavy-handed to me.

Of course, posting a Sherrif's badge as one's avatar, and revelling in the title of 'Forum Cop' also seems a little heavy-handed to me, but what do I know?

Regards,
Corporate Dog

Powergamer

01-06-2002, 05:22 PM

Life is unfair!

Forum cop! It's a dirty job, but someone has to do it.

Better to err on the side of caution, Darren. You sound like a non-anal type, so I'm sure you'll rule with an iron fist in a velvet glove, rather than the other way around.

Seriously though, you seem very permissive, which IMHO is a good quality for a moderator. I for one am glad that you won't just prune content you happen to disagree with.

That said, I also hope that you will ruthlessly move mis-posted threads to their appropriate homes -- and please, please, please feel free to mercilessly axe flamewars once the participants start repeating the insults that started the whole mess in the first place... ;)

Anyway, welcome, and good luck, Darren. You are the Sledge Hammer of forum cops! :)

Darren MacLennan

01-06-2002, 06:11 PM

Originally posted by Corporate Dog
First, I hate the fact that you see 'ads' as intrinsically more off-topic then a lot of the crap that gets thrown around this forum.

They are. Most of the ads that I've seen are from people who post once, are not steady contributors to the forum, and who don't stick around to see if people complained. Some do; some stick around and learn.

But the ads go into the ads/open promo forum.

Not to single him out, but I always thought that Gamer's Market's interviews belonged SQUARELY in Tangency. Maybe a large percentage of people here DID like them, but to play favorites like that DOES NOT strike me as a fair way to handle it.

We'll have to see how it works out, but keep in mind that I'm going to try to run this democratically. If enough people think that they should go into the regular forum, then they go here; alternately, if enough people think that they should go to Tangency, then they go there.

On the flip side, there are some 'ads' which have more substance to them than your average 'How old is everyone?' post. Maybe someday I'll actually finish my Great American RPG Rulebook, and be so proud of myself that I want to shout it from the rafters, and post something about it in the main forum. Chances are that what I post will be far more than just the price, where to buy it, and the ISBN number; I defer to the Jaffe brothers' (hey, where have THOSE guys been lately?) series of postings on The Last Exodus as an example. Lots of posts which were (without a doubt) meant to publicize their game, but which also gave us an inside view of the process behind the creation of the game, and a glimpse into their thoughts and feelings.

Well, if you are justifiably proud of your game, you could put it into the Ads/Open Promo forum. You could take out a free banner ad. You could issue a press release. You could throw a reference to your game into your .sig file.

If you want to talk about the problems and fun involved with creating your game, go ahead - and I enjoyed reading what Detwiller did with his posts - but pure advertisements just don't fit the forum.

To throw something like that into the cesspool that is ads/promos seems heavy-handed to me.

It's only a cesspool 'cause there are ads there. Maybe that's why I'm trying to keep them out of this forum...?

Of course, posting a Sherrif's badge as one's avatar, and revelling in the title of 'Forum Cop' also seems a little heavy-handed to me, but what do I know?

I'm amazed at how many people are panicked about me rightnow. I keep rubbing my head to see if the horns have begun to sprout yet.

Anyways, we'll see how it works out - it's democratic.

-Darren MacLennan

Judas

01-06-2002, 06:19 PM

I think SJohn is right, and guidelines are needed. Are 20 threads about LotR for this forum like a few weeks ago, or for Tangency?

Using the mob rule method just creates some weirdness where some people's stuff gets moved while other people's doesn't. Also, by keeping "popular" tangents here it causes the real Tangency forum to lie fallow, a place for non-approved tangents. If interesting tangents start getting moved then that forum while come to life. It would be cool to have a place where you could go to dicuss other topics with RPG.netters, but everyone always knew the good stuff stayed in the main forum.

Armin D. Sykes

01-06-2002, 06:22 PM

I'd just like to point something out that has changed with the new forums: A lot of folks in the past complained that they wanted the off-topic stuff in the main forum, because 'nobody reads' the other forums. Now, you can read *all the forums at once* as if they were one big forum, just by using that handy View New Messages link under your name in the forum index.

I personally sometimes like to read only a particular forum in one sitting, and sometimes like to read them all--so I'll use that New Messages link sometimes, and not other times. But this adds more flexibility for everyone here, so the moving of threads to the appropriate area shouldn't be a nuisance to the all-in-one-place crowd, while still allowing the selectivity that others may want.

Armin

Darren MacLennan

01-06-2002, 06:48 PM

Sparrowhawk's "bumping" of his Adventure! PBEM thread has been drawn to my attention, so I've closed the thread, and I'm going to ask Sandy for the authority to delete posts. (I'm not going to delete the whole thing, just the "bump" posts.)

Ergo, bumping's out.

Here's rough guidelines for what's Tangent and what's not:

- Personal likes and dislikes that don't deal with role-playing in specific. Your favorite role-playing game isn't Tangent, but your favorite movie, flavor of ice cream, so on and so forth - that's Tangent. Your favorite snack for role-playing straddles the line.

- Entertainment news? Tangency.

- If you're making a game, and you want to ask questions related to it - I'm thinking of what Detwiller did with Godlike - it's cool to post material from the game and so forth, or post pointers to new material. That way, game designers can promote their games by giving gamers free stuff.

I anticipate controversy over this point, but I'm trying to straddle the line. We'll make it more clear as time passes.

- Discussion about personal game experiences go on the main forum.

- A general rule of thumb: If it's fun, it goes on Tangency. If it's about role-playing, it goes on the main forum. If it's both fun and about role-playing, or if it's forum meta-discussion, it goes on the main forum.

Sound good so far?

-Darren MacLennan

Dave Shayne

01-06-2002, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by Judas
I think SJohn is right, and guidelines are needed. Are 20 threads about LotR for this forum like a few weeks ago, or for Tangency?

OK, lets start throwing around some ideas for guidelines. I propose the following rule, "If your post is of a nature that lacks a clear game related topic *and* few if any of the general readership of RPGnet are likely to take an interest in reading said post it belongs in tangency."

I'm not that great at writing so perhaps some examples might be in order.

1) Any post that proclaims glee at the receipt of free beverages through participation in a pseudorandom marketing gimick goes straight to tangency.

2a) Any post soliciting pity over loss of job or S.O. goes straight to tangency. (Listen it's a damn shame and I feel for you but I've got problems of my own so I don't really need to be dealing with yours as well)

2b) Any post gloating over gaining a job, S.O. or other non gaming related boon goes straight to tangency (Hey I'm happy for you but I've got my own life to live and don't need to be burdened by the sordid details of yours.)

3) Discussions of movies and or books are aceptable if the movie or book in question is likely to be of interest to the rpgnet masses. This largely means genre books and movies (aka Sci-Fi, Fantasy, or Action) but may include other styles as well.

4) Any post that consists of little or no content other than a press release or advertisement goes to ads/open promo.

These are just my suggestions. I'm flexible on example 3 somewhat less flexible on the others.

Kevin Mowery

01-06-2002, 07:10 PM

Discussion of movies and books should, I think, at least start off with a clear gaming-related theme in order to stay on main.

Lord of the Rings is so gaming related that it's not even an issue. Now, a Gandalf vs. Elminster thread would be tangent. The new movie that's coming out, "The Mothman Prophecies" is less so--but a post talking about it in terms of a roleplaying game would be fair.

I'm willing to trust Darren until he goes mad with power. Then I'll either complain to Sandy or just head up to Cleveland with a ball bat.

Ashtalkitty

01-06-2002, 07:30 PM

What? No bumping??

Come on - you need some bumping in a place like this! If you post on off hours, instead of reposting, you just bump the thread. Yes, it can be abused, and when abused, nail it down.

Maybe I read your post too quickly, Darren. Did he just bump once? Did he bump ten-times on a useless topic? What? Sometimes bumps are necessary, especially if you are looking for feedback.

Ugh. There need to be guidelines. This is not a democracy. This is a forum. If you thing that a democracy will make things work you are mistaken - it will make for an environment where the laws aren't applied evenly, where people won't know what's kosher and what's not, and it will foster bad feelings. You can't just apply the power unevenly and people need to know that they are following the rules in such a way that they can be reasonably assure that it's not going to get them in trouble.

If you really want to make it a democracy, why not offer a series of forum-based polls asking the respondents how you should do your job. Questions like, "Is it okay to bump, and how?", "Should the Gamer's Market be in Tangency?", etc. THAT would be democratic. Waiting for enough people to raise a stink isn't democratic - at best it will be slip-shod, at worst ineffective and ill-applied.

Ashtal

The Incredible Hatboy

01-06-2002, 07:36 PM

Sparrowhawk posted a thread promoting an Adventure! PBEM. This was, IIRC, during perfectly sensible hours. Nobody responded. (S)he bumped it. Nobody responded. (S)he bumped it *AGAIN*. I then drew Darren's attention to it, and he elected to lock it, dooming it to oblivion. I fully agree that there are times when bumps are appropriate, but they're pretty rare, and this thread was pretty inarguably being intrusive.

Jesse Custer

01-06-2002, 07:39 PM

Originally posted by Kevin Mowery
I'm willing to trust Darren until he goes mad with power. Then I'll either complain to Sandy or just head up to Cleveland with a ball bat.

Exactly. I'm not ready to fly off the handle until I have reason to. I wish people could quit worrying and enjoy the forums.

Clark

01-06-2002, 07:43 PM

As someone who has not spent a great deal of time on Internet BBS in the past, I need to ask: WHat constitutes "bumping"?

Is it simply blatant "Subject: BUMP" posts? (BAAAD)

Or do posts that are on-topic but on an old thread count as bumps? (Not necessarily bad but beating a dead horse can get annoying)

Sorry for the (probably) dumb question, I just want to make sure I follow the rules.

Darren MacLennan

01-06-2002, 07:54 PM

Originally posted by Clark
As someone who has not spent a great deal of time on Internet BBS in the past, I need to ask: WHat constitutes "bumping"?

Is it simply blatant "Subject: BUMP" posts? (BAAAD)

Or do posts that are on-topic but on an old thread count as bumps? (Not necessarily bad but beating a dead horse can get annoying)

Sorry for the (probably) dumb question, I just want to make sure I follow the rules.

First off, everybody can cool their jets about breaking the rules. I'm not going to tear anybody's head off for breaking rules that even I'm not exactly sure about just yet.

Anyways - messages that are simply posted to bump something up, and that don't contribute to the thread in any significant way are likely verboten. If you're just responding to something, no big deal.

Enjoy your stay on rpg.net. :->

-Darren MacLennan

Jesse Custer

01-06-2002, 07:55 PM

Originally posted by Clark
As someone who has not spent a great deal of time on Internet BBS in the past, I need to ask: WHat constitutes "bumping"?

Bumping is when you post to a thread just to get it to the top of the page. I figure, one bump is OK especially if the forum is moving too quickly (someone who hasn't visited the forum in the last 10 hours might miss it, e.g.) but anything more is quite difficult to defend.

Allistor Preist

01-06-2002, 09:53 PM

Darren

First let me say, you took a crappy job. No matter how you do it, it will be wrong and there is a long line of people waiting to tell you. Good luck however you decide to handle it.

That being said I think democracy is overated. If two people want to debate the merits and flaws of the d20 system for 1000+ posts is that really so bad? While the forum regualars (who will make up the majority of the democracy) may be sick of hearing about it, new people may pick something up from it.

The forum is meant to be open, and I would hate to loose new people because what they want to talk about gets shouted off the forum becuase the old timers are tired of it. Almost ever post here that is a rehash (metaplots, d20, fatal, ect) has a couple of posts that basically say "are we talking about this again, it has been beaten into the ground". But to the new people it is a new subject.

The same theory goes for moving posts. Basically if we leave the popular ones in the main forum, and move the unpopular ones into tangency and ads/ open promo then people will not go to those forums. After all the posts they want to see are in the main forum, why even look at the others.

I guess I am just saying, democracy sucks when you are in the minority.

Either way thanks for asking.

Egil

01-06-2002, 10:11 PM

Allistor Preist wrote:

That being said I think democracy is overated. If two people want to debate the merits and flaws of the d20 system for 1000+ posts is that really so bad?

If a new forum can be added, perhaps one just for that kind of eternal discussion could be created.

Naming it would be a problem. My suggestion would be "Bats & dead Equines."
But "perennial issues," or "recurring questions" might be better.

Anyway, what's to keep you from not clicking on them?

Democracy is (literally) mob rule. I don't want that here. Anarchy (no rule) or Aristocracy (rule by the better ones) would be better. Or, better yet, have a Hierocracy. Just give us THE LAW, and we'll follow along.

Stick it : Funnies are Tangency, Anything without RPGs in it is Tangency. That would clean up things a lot.

Here's to Darren, may he not suffer too much.

Darren MacLennan

01-06-2002, 10:23 PM

Originally posted by Egil
[B] Allistor Preist wrote:

Democracy is (literally) mob rule. I don't want that here.
Actually, no - rule by the mob is an ochlocracy.

Don't ask me how I know that. :->

-Darren MacLennan

Jan-Willem van den Broek

01-07-2002, 06:23 AM

I must say I agree with Allistor Preist; I too think the 'old' topics shouldn't be removed/flamed/etc. for the exact same reasons already mentioned.
Moving them to a special forum could be an option if they really get out of hand (i.e. when there get to be 10 of 'em on the top forum page), but otherwise I don't think that's a very good idea. If you move them to such a forum they'll just die out because of lack of exposure and someone will start a similar topic on the main forum within a few days.

Pyske

01-07-2002, 06:48 AM

Below is my proposal for a set of rules to determine which forum posts belong in. Note that one pitfall I see is people shoving posts they don't want to read into forums they don't want to read, so I am trying to define these in such a way that I would at least be tempted to read all of them if time allowed.

Hmm. I was originally trying to write up guidelines for the current forums, but found it too easy to pigeonhole "stuff I don't want" in them. This wound up being a suggestion for a forum reorg (sorry).

Real Life: personal info about RPG.Netters, their lives, families, and associates. Meta discussion about RPG.Net.

Gaming: Discussions and questions regarding actually running / playing games. Includes "How do I make XX work?", "What are your experiences with YY?", etc.

Industry: RPG.Net's main focus, at least in theory. Includes ads, requests for players, but also discussion of how to publish, what techniques to use for dice rolling, whether metaplot is a god thing in RPG publication (not how to apply metaplot), release dates for books, discussions / mini-reviews of games (esp. new games), etc.

I'm not positive I like my own ideas here, but I thought I'd throw them out to give y'all an idea what I'm thinking.

My impression is that "Art of Game Design" and the main forum are the most popular / high traffic forums here. Does this bear up under scrutiny? If so, should we build around that?

. . . . . . . -- Eric

Keith Burkhead

01-07-2002, 11:16 AM

Good luck, Darren. You took the job nobody wants, and that gets a salute from me. <Salutes>

Blatant ads - move 'em to Promo.

Discussions on politics, religion, current events and the like - move 'em to Tangency.

Entertainment, non gaming related - see number 2.

Entertainment, gaming related - Appropriate for
the main forum. Kevin Mowery's recent post about an alternate ending for the the 4th Age of Middle Earth is a good example.

General geek stuff - Favorite book lists, favorite movie lists, etc. - I like these myself, but they probably belong in Tangency.

Again, good luck, and thanks for taking the dirty job.

Later,
KB

Andy K

01-07-2002, 04:58 PM

Let's Help Darren!

I'm sure I'm not the only one who wants to help Darren by helping to point out threads that probably belong elsewhere.

What is the best way to do this? Email? Private RPGNet message? AIM? Or how about marking a post in the topic as "Submit this post to a moderator"- would you receive that very email?

I'm also not a big fan of democracy on a big, otherwise chaotic board like this one. SOMEONE's gonna get upset either way. It might as well be at Darren <:D> than "The System".

-Andy

Darren MacLennan

01-07-2002, 05:07 PM

Originally posted by Andy Kitkowski
Let's Help Darren!

What is the best way to do this? Email? Private RPGNet message? AIM? Or how about marking a post in the topic as "Submit this post to a moderator"- would you receive that very email?

I'm also not a big fan of democracy on a big, otherwise chaotic board like this one. SOMEONE's gonna get upset either way. It might as well be at Darren <:D> than "The System".

-Andy

I figure that if I get enough votes or opinions one way, I can moderate that way without having a majority of the board pissed off at me.

As for how to notify me: Use the "Report post to moderator" button, since that sends me an e-mail with a link to the problem. I like it like that. :->

-Darren MacLennan

Darren MacLennan

05-09-2006, 06:26 PM

A blast from the past...

-Darren MacLennan

Neall Raemonn Price

05-10-2006, 01:25 AM

A blast from the past...

-Darren MacLennan

This was a clear bump, contributing nothing to the thread.

I demand justice!

droog

05-10-2006, 06:34 AM

Darren, are you having some sort of mid-life crisis?

(un)reason

05-10-2006, 06:39 AM

New shiny toy. Fun to play with. (http://www.boardtracker.com/)

Ghola

05-10-2006, 08:36 AM

You need to stop reviving these threads Darren. Now people can see what a big ol' softie you've become. :D

Tokezo Hime

05-10-2006, 09:36 AM

*blinkblinkblink* whoa.

Some of y'all have been around here forever! :eek:

Also, the thought of unmoderated Tangency is deeply frightening to me.

Gwydion

05-10-2006, 10:31 AM

Also, the thought of unmoderated Tangency is deeply frightening to me.

Yeah, but sometimes I miss it.
Kevin

Darren MacLennan

05-10-2006, 11:13 AM

Darren, are you having some sort of mid-life crisis?

Maaaaaaaaaybe. Why?

-Darren MacLennan

Gravity's Angel

05-10-2006, 11:21 AM

What did happen to Gamer Market? He interviewed me and a few others and then vanished.

Future Villain Band

05-10-2006, 11:23 AM

Yeah, but sometimes I miss it.
Kevin
Hey, it's still back there, you just have to wade in there and get dirty to find those golden oldies.

Except for the real trainwrecks, which are stored safely Backstage. We've got men working on them. Top men.

--Eric

Neall Raemonn Price

05-10-2006, 11:38 AM

We've got men working on them. Top men.

"Who?"

Future Villain Band

05-10-2006, 11:50 AM

"Who?"
Top men.

--Eric

Neall Raemonn Price

05-10-2006, 11:55 AM

Top men.

--Eric

<img src = "http://members.tripod.com/~swingin/pictures1/warehouse.jpg"></img>

Ghola

05-10-2006, 12:30 PM

*blinkblinkblink* whoa.

Some of y'all have been around here forever! :eek:

Also, the thought of unmoderated Tangency is deeply frightening to me.

Tangency was moderated by the time I got here, but even so I *thought* it had become a "free-for-all" forum by default because it was impossible for the staff to control. I found it that it was just taking a long time to clean up because there were so many asses for the Mods to kick before it could become civilized.

RemyDuron

05-10-2006, 12:57 PM

Hmm... I kind of wish things worked as described in the OP.

"Letting flame wars go on until the get boring" specifically sounds pretty awesome.

Darren MacLennan

05-10-2006, 02:46 PM

Hmm... I kind of wish things worked as described in the OP.

"Letting flame wars go on until the get boring" specifically sounds pretty awesome.

You weren't around for some of the particularly ugly ones. Or, at least, you might not remember what they were like.

-Darren MacLennan

florin

05-10-2006, 02:58 PM

Hmm... I kind of wish things worked as described in the OP.

"Letting flame wars go on until the get boring" specifically sounds pretty awesome.

What Darren said. Flames wars don't get boring. They spread.

X pisses of Y. Y snipes at X in another thread. Z jumps on Y. A defends Y. X snipes at A. B jumps on A too. Etc.

Gravity's Angel

05-10-2006, 03:01 PM

What Darren said. Flames wars don't get boring. They spread.

You take that back!

Future Villain Band

05-10-2006, 03:09 PM

What Darren said. Flames wars don't get boring. They spread.

X pisses of Y. Y snipes at X in another thread. Z jumps on Y. A defends Y. X snipes at A. B jumps on A too. Etc.
And TO was very cliqueish, so if you were an Open-only poster and jumped the shit of somebody who was a TO darling, you could expect a bunch of people you never saw post before talking about what a prick you were in TO, when the fight had originally been about what was the best Expert Set adventure for D&D. I ran afoul of that a couple times.

Huh. I guess if I was uncomfortable being vilified by strangers on other forums, I shouldn't have modded up. ;) Ah, well.

--Eric

Julius Sleazer

05-10-2006, 03:19 PM

Huh. I guess if I was uncomfortable being vilified by strangers on other forums, I shouldn't have modded up. ;) Ah, well.

--Eric

Admit it. You're just in it for the free homoerotic sadist nut-toucher fic.

UnRuley

05-10-2006, 03:31 PM

I think Darren needs a hug. That or a Spanking, I can't quite tell.

Dead Parrot

05-10-2006, 04:30 PM

I think Darren needs a hug. That or a Spanking, I can't quite tell.

Well knowing Darren, both would probably be turn ons. ;)

Poster #15672

05-10-2006, 04:46 PM

Well knowing Darren, both would probably be turn ons. ;)

Given the thread he wrote, combine both with a camera and strip-teasing journalists, and you might have a hit. ;)

Cessna

05-10-2006, 05:25 PM

Some of y'all have been around here forever! :eek:

Yep. The "New Forums" are over four years old.

(shudder)

Prairie Dragon

05-10-2006, 06:04 PM

Scurrilous

05-10-2006, 06:05 PM

four years? Odd I feel like I've always been here.

dalziel_86

05-10-2006, 06:51 PM

four years? Odd I feel like I've always been here.
<img src=http://www.grudge-match.com/Images/kosh.jpg>
You have always been here...

Darren MacLennan

05-10-2006, 07:22 PM

Nothingland-esque?

I'm not entirely familiar with Nothingland, but I believe that rpg.net's moderation started out that way...

-Darren MacLennan

Prairie Dragon

05-10-2006, 07:27 PM

I'm not entirely familiar with Nothingland, but I believe that rpg.net's moderation started out that way...

-Darren MacLennan
Old Nothingland and Old RPG.net sound quite similar. Moderation was a means to control the madness, but madness was allowed to exist...for awhile anyways.

Garry G

05-10-2006, 07:52 PM

Darren is absolutely fine all he needs is to come out for a few pints in auld Dundee. We know how to take care of visitors.

Future Villain Band

05-10-2006, 08:38 PM

Old Nothingland and Old RPG.net sound quite similar. Moderation was a means to control the madness, but madness was allowed to exist...for awhile anyways.
If I had to put a time on when our Wild West days ended, I think it was right around the time that a few TO regulars forced the mods' hands, and that Open was getting the shit trolled out of it. I was just a poster until the tail end of it (I got modded up right around the Great Cafeteria Revolt, but my wife went into labor, so I sat it out.) I remember that the moderation shifted in response to things like the Wick Death Hoax, Gary Skarka, a couple serial trolls in Open, and then the Revolt itself. The '04 election hit, and they had to martial law TO. Then...Pimp.

And now, we have Hot Topic in TO, lest we forget the lessons of the past. :)

Really, I can point to most of the rules in the old rules and say, "Oh, they had to create this one about impersonations because of these two incidents, and..."

--Eric

Prairie Dragon

05-10-2006, 09:05 PM

It sounds like I missed out the stormy days. I went from EnWorld to Nutkinland/Nothingland whatever the hell they felt like calling it-land. EnWorld was extraordinarily Moderated out. Just mention the word 'Bush' and the topic would get closed. One might even get an email warning saying how badwrongevil talking about politics was on that board. I guess, I don't blame them; since RPGs were supposed to be the focus. They would then urge us to visit whateverland. In Nothingland, if you didn't get into some sort of flamefest; well-you just didn't fit in. Course, I have not been there in nearly 16 months; maybe it has changed...dunno.

Prairie Dragon

05-10-2006, 09:08 PM

I should mention that I am not trying to turn this into an 'us' against 'them' sort of dynamic. I am merely offering a comparison.

Vektunaxa

05-10-2006, 09:29 PM

Great Cafeteria Revolt
Cafeteria Revolt?

I know of most of the others, but this one is new. You're not talking about the mayonnaise flamewar, are you?

Stephenls

05-10-2006, 09:36 PM

Cafeteria Revolt?

I know of most of the others, but this one is new. You're not talking about the mayonnaise flamewar, are you?

...what?

coeli

05-10-2006, 10:10 PM

What did happen to Gamer Market? He interviewed me and a few others and then vanished.
I miss him too. And he owes me an interview, which this new Boardtracker thingy might make possible...

Cessna

05-10-2006, 10:35 PM

Cafeteria Revolt?

I know of most of the others, but this one is new. You're not talking about the mayonnaise flamewar, are you?

Mayonnase flamewar...?

"Cafeteria Revolt" refers to Funksaw's "The Can't Ban Us All, Can They?" attempt.

(The answer, by the way, was "No, but we can sure ban you...")

D. Archon

05-10-2006, 11:35 PM

Mayonnase flamewar...?

"Cafeteria Revolt" refers to Funksaw's "The Can't Ban Us All, Can They?" attempt.

(The answer, by the way, was "No, but we can sure ban you...")

I think i remember that.

I wandered into rpg.net at the tail end of the old days, apparently, because i remember fleeing to the Forge, since it was a friendlier board to newbies.

That should tell you something about what rpg.net was like. ;)

John R

05-11-2006, 02:13 AM

Mayonnase flamewar...?
I'm buggered if I can remember who it was, now, but it was waaaaaay back in the old forum format days. A 100-odd post flamewar over mayonnaise and its pros and cons.

"I like mayo."

"Then you must smell of wee."

"Your mother smells of wee."

"I HATE YOU WITH MY BURNING EYES OF DEATH. DO YOU FEEL THE HATE POURING FROM MY BURNING EYES????"

"Burning eyes? Some nice cool mayonnaise would probably be real soothing..."

Edit: Behold my Google-fu! - The Mayonnaise Flamewar (http://www.rpg.net/forums/phorum/pf/read.php?f=61&i=16442&t=16442)

Nina

05-11-2006, 02:48 AM

Edit: Behold my Google-fu! - The Mayonnaise Flamewar (http://www.rpg.net/forums/phorum/pf/read.php?f=61&i=16442&t=16442)
I...have no words.

lelak

05-11-2006, 06:12 AM

I...have no words and I must post.
:rolleyes:

Voriof

05-11-2006, 07:07 AM

Edit: Behold my Google-fu! - The Mayonnaise Flamewar (http://www.rpg.net/forums/phorum/pf/read.php?f=61&i=16442&t=16442)

There was the Bigfoot flamewar too - what was interesting is that the majority of the posters were Canadian and it was *nasty*... I think some folks were watching just to see Canucks beating the shite out of each other. Or am I conflating 2 flamewars from about the same time?

Voriof

P.S. Orcus got banned?!?! When did that happen?

Valfader

05-11-2006, 07:19 AM

The Bigfoot Flamewar (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=77682).

Vipergrrl

05-11-2006, 09:25 AM

I...have no words.

I do.

Mustard kicks Mayonnaise's slimy arse!!

Killfalcon

05-11-2006, 09:40 AM

I feel like being snarky to a moderator.

:D

Future Villain Band

05-11-2006, 09:48 AM

Mayonnase flamewar...?

"Cafeteria Revolt" refers to Funksaw's "The Can't Ban Us All, Can They?" attempt.

(The answer, by the way, was "No, but we can sure ban you...")
I link the Great Cafeteria Revolt inextricably to the big petition that got circulated around and then Curt's...um, first banning, which precipitated Funksaw's valiant Charge of the Light Brigrade-esque rush at the Ban Button.

That was a hell of a month.

--Eric

florin

05-11-2006, 10:03 AM

I link the Great Cafeteria Revolt inextricably to the big petition that got circulated around and then Curt's...um, first banning, which precipitated Funksaw's valiant Charge of the Light Brigrade-esque rush at the Ban Button.

That was a hell of a month.

--Eric

There have been some... interesting flame-outs on the boards. I hate to admit that I did have a trainwreck fascination with some of them. :)

However, now that a lot of the goaders have disappeared, things have calmed down a bit.

Prairie Dragon

05-11-2006, 05:08 PM

However, now that a lot of the goaders have disappeared, things have calmed down a bit.
It's an illusion, snap out of it!

Poster #15672

05-11-2006, 07:07 PM

OUt of sheerest curiosity, is Chris M still with us? I swear I've seen him on the boards.

John R

05-12-2006, 02:36 AM

OUt of sheerest curiosity, is Chris M still with us? I swear I've seen him on the boards.
He certainly was when someone first managed to dig out the Mayonnaise Flamewar from the old forums a few months ago. I seem to remember him having a good chuckle about it, looking back.

Though that said, I'm half sure I also remember a bit of an explosion-then-leaving a while back with someone which might have been him. Or, equally, I could be talking out of my arse and have him confused with someone else. :)

Scurrilous

05-12-2006, 07:44 AM

Vipergrrl

05-12-2006, 08:36 AM

But you know, back in the day, I could read these boards for hours at a time. Now I'm down to maybe half an hour a day for the whole thing. It was just much funnier back in the days when everything was free.

I can see why it has to be the way it is now. But it just doesn't have the unrestrained brilliance it used to. But then, like a moth, I've always had an unhealthy attraction to fire.

Well to be fair we have had our fair share of "interesting" flame wars since then. The one that pops to mind right off the bat would be the "Kwan War" during the Winter Olympics.

IMO that one ranks right up there with the infamous Bigfoot thread.