[Star Wars] Re-imagining the post-ROTJ era

[Ineti]

Since this is for my game, I put this thread here rather than in Other Media. Mods, please move if you feel it necessary.

I'm planning a new SWRPG set in the post-ROTJ era, and I'm ditching the entirety of the post-ROTJ continuity found in the novels and comics and so on. Starting with a clean slate, essentially, with the movies as the sole foundation.

With that being said, here's some stuff I'm looking at and could use some feedback on, as well as new ideas to spark my own brain cells.

Shortly after ROTJ, the New Republic forms in starts and gasps, assisted partially by Luke, Leia, et al. Once the government is somewhat stable (after a year or so), Luke whisks Leia off to Dagobah for a few years and trains her up.

The two of them return and set up a new Jedi temple of sorts, and over a period of several years recruit/find/train a quartet of new Knights, who they elevate to a master role and form a new ad hoc Jedi council made up of the six of them.

Then they all go about training up more Force Sensitives and adding some Knights to the new order, and so on and so forth.

I'm looking at starting the game some 15-20 years after ROTJ, with the PCs being the latest graduating class of Jedi apprentices (they'll all start with 1 level of Jedi in addition to 1 or 2 levels of prior experience in other classes before being recruited).

Ideas would be appreciated, as well as thoughts on whether 15-20 years makes for a reasonable timeframe for Luke and Leia to train four new masters and a couple dozen Knights. Given that their training would almost certainly be less formal than the prequel era efforts, and that they'd likely abbreviate certain aspects of the training in an effort to speedily ramp up the Jedi presence in the galaxy.

Have at you!

[Joshua Dyal]

Exactly how I would run SWRPG, so I've given this some thought.

First off, it ain't Star Wars without some lightsaber fights, so you need some anti-Jedi of some kind. Here's my thought. The Emperor doesn't seem like the type to not have contingency plans out the wazoo. Although he's dead, and his apprentice turned back at the last moment, in theory the Sith are no more forever. But if he had some backups; not his real apprentices, but folks waiting in the wings in case Vader ever went down, you could reconstruct a Sith organization too.

Quite likely, after seeing the disastrous near destruction of their entire order under Darth Sidious/Palpatine, the whole "rule of two" concept would be scrapped.

[Nelzie]

Throughout the Extended Universe material there were always stories and hints that other 'Jedi' escaped the purge and went into hiding. Some of them gave up their Jedi way of life and ignored the Force not wanting to live with the guilt and pain that they couldn't help their comrades, others stayed hidden, similar to Yoda, perhaps even partially training or gathering to them those that would one day need training.

In my group's reimagined post-RotJ, a few of these fallen Jedi were discovered and helped with the rebuilding of the Jedi Order. While not Jedi Masters, they were skilled enough to help start training, once they rediscovered their purpose. In the 15 years since The Battle of Endor, the Jedi Order as grown to having close to 300 Jedi and Jedi in Training.

I don't think that it is necesarily unrealistic to have nearly 300 Jedi/Trainees roughly 15 years after The Battle of Endor. If an academy was announced, hundreds of people might show up, just to see if they could be Jedi, others might be inexplicably drawn to the Academy only to discover that they were meant to be there.

[zcthu3]

Also if you want Dark Side force users to challenge your PCs there are the Imperial Hands and Imperial Inquisitors who were trained in the Force, and in the case of Inquisitors were often turned Jedi (rather than Sith).

Personally I would keep the post-RotJ timeline until the end of the Timothy Zahn books with Grand Admiral Thrawn - all that section (and even the trilogy revolving around Isard) made sense to me. Just because the Emperor is dead doesn't mean that the Empire doesn't go on resulting in a struggle for the "throne" so to speak.

The NJO series I would probably drop.

[Yoric]

I'm looking at starting the game some 15-20 years after ROTJ, with the PCs being the latest graduating class of Jedi apprentices (they'll all start with 1 level of Jedi in addition to 1 or 2 levels of prior experience in other classes before being recruited).

Cool, I'm looking for something similar but for the Dark Side :)


The two of them return and set up a new Jedi temple of sorts, and over a period of several years recruit/find/train a quartet of new Knights, who they elevate to a master role and form a new ad hoc Jedi council made up of the six of them.


If I recall correctly, it is assumed that Luke is the one who brings balance to the Force (and not his father, despite the intuitions of Mace Windu). Several unusual hypothesis:

he will not train any Jedi - rather, he will somehow make sure that the Jedi will never exist again, from either side of the Force
he will train both sides of the Force, impartially
he will create a "Gray Jedi Order", somewhat more pragmatic, exploring both sides of the Force


Given that their training would almost certainly be less formal than the prequel era efforts, and that they'd likely abbreviate certain aspects of the training in an effort to speedily ramp up the Jedi presence in the galaxy.

Now, the question is: why would they want to speed up the process ? It's like handing atomic bombs to people without the appropriate training and screening.

[Bloodcat]

Ive always preferred running games during Eps 4-6, so I doubt I would be much help here.

Besides, I planned on having Luke joining Vader and there being 3 main factions. Empire, Skywalker Empire, and Rebellion.

There was a pretty good setup like this downloadable from one of the SW RPG sites on the net.

I wanted to mess with my player's heads though.

[celestiusknight]

I think there should be an explosion of dark jedi (or jedi using the dark side of the force). Certainly, new jedi may teach others their knowledge despite warnings from Luke. Qui-gon Jinn felt he knew better and did stuff without their approval. You could have an invasion of a series of systems that the few jedi in those system taught them the force to repel these invasions. However, many of those go to the dark side because they never got the full,proper training. They go on and teach more and more people their knowledge and cause a huge explosion of dark jedi that enflame the galaxy in a terrorist-like war where jedi are fighting dark jedi.

Besides that, there are several things i liked from the Expanded Universe.
- I liked the fact that Leia became leader of the New Republic. I really like the stories of Han trying to adjust to a statesman life.

- I liked the Jedi Academy, however, i thought it was weird it took Luke six years to get one going.

- I did like Mara Jade and Talon Karrde.

- I think the Sith are not gone completely. I agree with the poster above, the Emperor had way too much in plans to just die and go away after being thrown down a shaft. If he doesnt, i think there may have been others that he would have shown others a little of the sith powers, and after a decade or so, the sith could come back.

- I liked the debat that Luke was having about instituting the Jedi Council or not having one at all. That is the only thing I liked in the NJO.

The big thing I would not know what to do with the empire. They are not going to go away completely. I disagree with the books. I think most of the empire would just change over to the New Republic, since most of the old republic seemed to change over to the empire. The more power hungry or murderous people would be the ones to keep fighting the New Republic.

BTW, let Chewbacca live!

[committed hero]

It's not like the existence of a Sith Lord was a secret - actually they probably had better galactic-wide PR than the Jedi!

Plus it's probably safe to assume that the Emperor had some kind of shrine or profane place on Coruscant, and when Luke checks in on it it has already been looted....

[Monk]

You can always take a page from Knights of the Old Republic - that the Sith are a belief rather than a group of people, and there will always be those who will either want the quick path to power, or see merit in using the Force to dominate others. Maybe a few years prior to the start of the campaign, one of the Jedi who have graduated from the new Academy have gone off to some planet or system and slowly fallen to the dark side, and started to train others. Also, an idea I find cool is, like a character in one of KoTOR games, a fallen Jedi who hasn't realized they've fallen. :)

[zcthu3]

You can always take a page from Knights of the Old Republic - that the Sith are a belief rather than a group of people

Actually this is the case in standard SW. The Sith were originally a race but later the race died and all that was left was their teachings and beliefs.

[RedFox]

Died or lost somewhere beyond the Unknown Regions. There's always hints that the original species version of the Sith may still be out there somewhere, biding their insidious time.

They've always had cthonic overtones, honestly. When the stars are right, the ancient Sith will return!

[zcthu3]

Died or lost somewhere beyond the Unknown Regions. There's always hints that the original species version of the Sith may still be out there somewhere, biding their insidious time.

They've always had cthonic overtones, honestly. When the stars are right, the ancient Sith will return!

I must admit, I never got quite that feeling. I got the impression the Sith people were conquered by fleeing dark side Jedi and thus the "Sith" model of the force evolved.

[Monk]

I know that the race of Sith are all gone and such (I've heard both stories that they're Out There Somewhere and that they just died out), the point was that there doesn't really have to be a Sith teacher in or order for a Jedi to become Sith. I'm sure it's a heck of a lot easier, but not necessarily mandatory.

[Jezrael]

I usually have the Imperial Navy and Army be alot more competent than portrayed in the majority of the novels, making a much harder fight for the New Republic to be established.

I like the idea of resurgent Sith, some that try and keep to the "Rule of Two" that Darth Bane started and others that ignore them, maybe some exiled Sith warlords from Wild Space or the Unknown Regions.

Not all of the planetary governments will want to be involved in the New Republic, so you'll have more competing interests in the galaxy. They formed up much too quickly in the EU, I think they'd be a bit more gunshy about forming a New Republic with the record of the Old one and the Empire's ease in taking it over.

[Craig Oxbrow]

For the immediate post-Jedi era, I'd concentrate on the Alliance (dropping "Rebel") performing hit-and-run raids on the Empire as it tears itself apart with half a dozen claimants to the throne fighting amongst themselves.

In time, things settle. The conflicts play out like Shakespearian history plays with more exploding spaceships, and an Imperial Senate forms out of the ruins, something of a society of supervillains.

There's a Republic, but it's shaky. Former Rebel strike teams are now Republic Marshals, the only law on the Outer Rim, taking the place of the Jedi as the thin line of peacekeepers. And, if they're being honest, not really filling those shoes.

The Senators come and go, as Big Bads will. They assassinate one another, overstretch their control and die at the hands of their opponents, end up being spaced in crew mutinies...

Luke Skywalker does his best to educate those attuned to the Force in using it, but a number of Force-sensitive people fall through the cracks. In Republic zones, they are generally found and sent to study in an ad hoc Academy with little of the formality of the old Jedi way. Maybe one in five even tries to build a lightsabre.

In Imperial zones, they are rounded up, assessed for usefulness, and turned over to Jedi-fighting groups or killed. Elsewhere, they are left to their own devices. This, naturally, leads to trouble in its own ways.

There are spies and agents for every power bloc in every power bloc, from Republic strike teams rescuing Imperial prisoners to Imperial assassins keeping watch over Hutt Syndicate operations throughout the Rim.

And all it would take to throw the galaxy back into war would be for someone to truly unite the Empire again...

[Trilobite]

Now, the question is: why would they want to speed up the process ? It's like handing atomic bombs to people without the appropriate training and screening.Oh, there are lots of reasons.

First off, after the second Death Star is blown up and the Emperor dies, the Rebel Alliance's problems are far from over: in order to win, they suffered huge losses (both in manpower and in starships), and now there's a power vacuum across all of Imperial space. A vacuum which will almost immediately be snatched up by whatever governors are the toughest and most able to seize command of whatever part of the Imperial Navy fell within their demesne.

Fast-tracking some Jedi Knights into service won't give the nascent New Republic an overwhelming advantage, but it will at least tilt the odds in their favor a bit: particularly if you manage to luck out and get a few like the legendary Jedi Masters of old, who were renowned for winning friends and influencing solar systems peacefully (and leading armies successfully if that failed).


Then there's the PR angle. People across the galaxy only remember the Jedi Knights as a semi-mystical order that used to proclaim its role in defending the Republic. When the Emperor took over, the Jedi Knights were eliminated. It'll look damn good if the New Republic is standing next to a New Jedi Order; and the appearance of legitimacy a Jedi endorsement gives them may help sway wishy-washy systems into agreeing to sign up with the Republic rather than the charismatic former Imperial Governor across the way.


Lastly, you've probably got a king-sized case of "Lots of Things We Need to Do" afflicting Luke and the other Jedi. They want to get out into the galaxy and make a difference. They need numbers for that, and they know it. Besides, it's not like there's an entrenched elder council around to warn them that impatience leads to sloppy training, which leads to the dark side, so... ;)

--
most of 'em are probably just a bad morning away from being full-tilt evil
ryan

[Xeno]

most of 'em are probably just a bad morning away from being full-tilt evilOh, if only I had the ability, oh what a joke I could make out of this line. Alas, I do not :(

[Ithaeur]

Lastly, you've probably got a king-sized case of "Lots of Things We Need to Do" afflicting Luke and the other Jedi. They want to get out into the galaxy and make a difference. They need numbers for that, and they know it. Besides, it's not like there's an entrenched elder council around to warn them that impatience leads to sloppy training, which leads to the dark side, so... ;)

And this provides for a literally endless source of things to do for Jedis-in-training and their friends. "We have heard rumors that there may be a partially preserved backup of the Jedi Council's library on this planet. Master Skywalker and the council have decided that it needs to be investigated. Your ship is waiting at landing pad eight. Oh, and be careful; there's two imperial warlords fighting over the system. Please don't get the Republic involved if you can help it."

[Ineti]

If I recall correctly, it is assumed that Luke is the one who brings balance to the Force (and not his father, despite the intuitions of Mace Windu).

I don't agree with this, actually. I believe it is indeed Anakin that brings balance to the Force as Qui-Gon suggested, but only after a long, dark fall and then a redemption. He's the one that kills the Emperor (and indirectly, himself) after all.

And Trilobite, it's like you downloaded my SW ideas and dumped them into a post. :) Your comments are exactly where I was going with that idea.

[The Scribbler]

Question: Does Luke not have a problem "Training up" Leia, as she's involved in a relationship and that's a problem for Jedi (traditionally, anyway)?

[Kevin Mowery]

Question: Does Luke not have a problem "Training up" Leia, as she's involved in a relationship and that's a problem for Jedi (traditionally, anyway)?

We don't know if Luke ever got that particular bit of training, since none of us had ever heard of it until it was put into Episode II.

Could be Obi Wan and Yoda just kinda glossed over it because, hey, Luke's a whiny twenty-something virgin. What're the odds?

[Joshua Dyal]

Actually this is the case in standard SW. The Sith were originally a race but later the race died and all that was left was their teachings and beliefs.
I'm really not a fan of the EU, but I could see using this concept, albeit in a different way. After all, we know Darth Maul's tattoos had some kind of ritual Sith meaning, but we don't know what. What if the original Sith race looked like that naturally? What if they're not really dead? What if the remnants of Palpatine's Sith order; the "pseudo-apprentices" if you will, come upon them?

[Rick]

This is my treatment of the post Jedi galaxy. Note i tried to pull back to the preimperial feel intentionally, that may not be your cup o' tea. I also apologize for any mis-spelling or awkward phrasing, I wrote this in somewhat of a hurry...It's long:

"...exitement ha, adventure ha, a jedi craves not these things..."-Yoda

Perhaps not but where ever a jedi goes, exitement and adventure seem follow. In Star Wars: Tales of the New Jedi (coming soon to a white board near you), we will follow our heroes, a Jedi Knights and his Padawan as they traverse the Galaxy; fullfilling the councils mandates and searching their souls for the true meaning, and will of the force. This is a brief over view of the last 100 years in the Star War universe, according to Rick.

In the galaxy 100 yrs after the fall of the empire, there is great peril for these new Jedi. The galaxies citizens are still uncertain about how to feel about these guardians of peace and Justice, and the senate chafes at continued rejections by the Order to fall under it's priveiw.

Master Skywalker adressing the senate, "...though it was the machinations of an evil genius that destroyed the republic and nearly destroyed my order, it was the greed and ambition of the senate and of public officials that were his greatest weapons. We are the jedi as you once new them, but we've learned from our fore-bearers mistakes. We serve the republic and it's people, we'll, if requested, assist the senate and office of the cancelor: but we will never again be the puppets of the political machinations of any one body or person."

It wasn't long after the battle of endor that Luke Skywalker began looking for others to train in the ways of the force. In those first years he was forced to choose student who were older, this he knew was dangerous, but his instincts served him well. He and these students became the 1st generation of the Jedi order rebuilt (note the my use of the 'generation' is only for orginazation, and it won't be used in game). These Jedi did their jobs well, though they all struggled W/the darkside they managed to maintain their focus and stay strong.

During these early years while meditating dagobah, Luke found Yoda's second reason for hiding in such a vile uninviting place...the compressed data archive files (Think zip disc) that backed up what was once the greatest library in the galaxy...the Jedi archives. Though it would take the finest slicer minds several years to crack yoda's incryption code it was much like opening the greatest treasure trove imaginable.

Luke, and his disciples began looking for those who'd become the 2nd generation of new Jedi. Where as Lukes first class was a spectacular success, his second class had it's share of near catostrophic failures. Trained on Yavin 4, in the Jedi Praxium (the interum home of the jedi until the Temple on Coruscant was re-founded), these students though younger were trained en mass W/little or no one on one Master/Padawan relationship. This class of Jedi would boast atleast 20 or so rogue or fallen Jedi. These nascent jedi would cause Master Skywalker no end of heart ache and trouble. These new Jedi were some what unruly, and few outside the order ever even realized they were Jedi untill a Lightsaber was brandished. They looked and acted more like scoundrels and fringe characters than Jedi. In spite of this, many of these students were competent individuals and slowly began to shine W/in the order.

During this time a mysterious cult of nare-do-well force user began to emerge calling themselves the Krath. They appeared to the layperson to be Jedi, they dressed in the same Rogueish manner and commanded mysterious powers and wielded lightsabers. Though rarely was any one of these Krath as powerful as a Jedi, they made up for their lack of training W/numbers.

Around 30-40 years after Endor, the third generation of Jedi came of age. THese Jedi were different than their forebearers though. Raised on coruscant or Yavin these were truly children of the order, lukes first attempt at reproducing master Yoda's training regimine. These young Jedi were raised not on the tales of the first and second generations' deeds and prescedants, but on the stories and histories of the Jedi archives. They didn't see themselves as errant warriors fighting for rightous causes (though they understood that was part of what they were). They grew up reading and even watching the deeds of great Jedi like, Odan-urr, Yoda, Carnar, Elana doe Ror, Mace Windu, Dooku, Thren Don and Obi Wan Kenobi. They were a monastic order and they new it, and aspoused those older principles. They Began dressing themselves in the manner of these older Jedi and they, unlike the second generation of Jedi, took Master Skywalkers calm, slow approach to being a Jedi to heart.

The importance of their choose in clothing (as innane as it sounds) became obvious when Jedi Master Golth Yune Hoy attempted to settle a trade distbute between a Wookie colony and an ithorian world ship. Master Hoy (a renowned Jedi of the 2nd generation) was accompanied by his padawan Tetha 'Chon. Teth was in the garb of a traditional Jedi and the Wookies and Ithorians looked from his master to him, then made a double take. They (both being very long lived species) Bowed low to the young padawan and asked if he as a wise Jedi could help find an amicable solution to their distbute. (Tetha'Chon is now a revered member of the Jedi Councel)

W/the older species seeing the emergence of these "true" Jedi, it brought a level of legitimacy to Skywalker's New Order they'd never had. He simply smiled thinking how such a small, innane thing as a Habbit and Tunic could make such a difference, then he remembered the tiny Yoda lifting his Xwing out of the Bogg on Dagobah.

60 or so years after the destruction of the death star came the orders first dire test of strength and will. A major confliguration W/the Imperial sector was set off when, on orders from master skywalker a group of Jedi (Tetha Chon, Kay Aalan Mudorian W/his padawan Vin Orn Fa and Rorn Rye Ethon) made a Sortie on to a contested world and rescued a refugee Princess who's ancestors came from old alderaan, this set off a war between the Jedi and Krath which was mirrored by the Impirial sector and the Republic. Near abouts the same time a mysterious warrior who'd later claim to be a Sith Lord (though master skywalker referred to him as an overly ambitious member of the Krath) stole on to Dagobah and slaughtered 2 Jedi masters and 17 Padawan and learners including Rye Ethons padawan Dara Lor. This war ended after 3 long years. Mudorian would lose his student Vin (who was at the time actually a full fledged Knight) but he inturn would slay the would be heir to the Sith, his student's killer. It was also discovered that it was Rye Ethons student who allowed the Leader of the Krath to infiltrate Dagobah and Master Ethon inturn put down his former student, Dara Lor.

With this war over it ushers in the time of renewed faith in the republic, this my friends is your time. It's been 100 years since the Emeror Palpitine the last true Dark lord of the sith (Darth Sidious) was slain by Anakin Shywalker. In the intervening forty years the Jedi's number have reached to over 2000, but the Galaxy is inhabited by 10's of trillions of setient beings. Can you serve them as you should, are you more than a lot of talk and a Lightsaber, do you have what it takes to call yourself.......a Jedi Knight.

Judge me by my size do you?...as where you should not: for my ally is the force, and a powerful ally it is.

-Yoda

[Kiero]

Then they all go about training up more Force Sensitives and adding some Knights to the new order, and so on and so forth.

I'm looking at starting the game some 15-20 years after ROTJ, with the PCs being the latest graduating class of Jedi apprentices (they'll all start with 1 level of Jedi in addition to 1 or 2 levels of prior experience in other classes before being recruited).

Ideas would be appreciated, as well as thoughts on whether 15-20 years makes for a reasonable timeframe for Luke and Leia to train four new masters and a couple dozen Knights. Given that their training would almost certainly be less formal than the prequel era efforts, and that they'd likely abbreviate certain aspects of the training in an effort to speedily ramp up the Jedi presence in the galaxy.

Have at you!

First up, 15-20 years is LOADS of time. It's a whole new generation. Vader and the Emperor's efforts to wipe out the Jedi only removed the existing crop of trained Force-users, and maybe made some inroads into the potential ones.

But new untrained Force sensetives are appearing all the time, and particularly now the Empire is gone it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if the numbers the found exploded, particularly if they were actively recruiting.

In addition there are all the failed Jedi who were booted out by the Old Order because they couldn't hack the apprenticeship. Many of them are doing other things, I'm sure some have had children (who may also be Force-sensetive) in the time of the Empire.

I've always thought there was the potential that some of the Jedi who disappeared before the purge (many of the prescient types) might have taken a handful of younglings with them, to hide away. Maybe they come back into view.

And lastly you've got all those darksiders who worked for the Emperor - Inquisitors, his Hands and other tools who might be converted. Given their fanatical loyalty, they could also be new (non-Sith) adversaries.

A new Order which is less stuffy (like restricting the age of apprentices, and personal attachments) and more interested in just training up anyone they find would have a much bigger pool of recruit to choose from.

What starts off a trickle turns in to a flood of new Jedi. By 15-20 years later (which remember will have been longer than the Empire existed) there might be a new Order in the low thousands of Jedi. Or at least high hundreds if they're being more careful in their recruitment.

For opponents, the rough-and-ready style of training necessitated (lots of students teaching students) by the lack of Masters, means you'll have a percentage of the disillusioned/frustrated/otherwise untrainable who slink off and do their own thing. Some delve fully into the dark side, and maybe even find ancient Sith holocrons and texts (or even Palpatine's Book of Anger).

A final note on the Jedi Code. The Code written by Odan Urr 5,000 years before the Battle of Yavin has been re-interpreted over time. The idea that Jedi cannot have personal attachments is not a "law", it's an interpretation of the Code, something which changed over time. I conjecture it was some time during Yoda's lifetime that they decided the only "way" to train Jedi was to take them from birth, and warn them off any kind of emotional attachments.

4000 years before that (Tales of the Jedi/Knights of the Old Republic era), there was no such censure. Jedi started training whenever, they lived, loved and reproduced, and Masters taught multiple apprentices. Same code, different interpretation.

[GregPogorzelski]

(Tetha'Chon is now a revered member of the Jedi Councel)

A good reading, but it didn't help that phoneticaly, the name of this famous jedi is the french expression for "shithead". :D

[Rick]

ARE YOU KIDDING ME!?!?!?!?! HA!!!!!!

I may need to look into altering his name...

[The Scribbler]

4000 years before that (Tales of the Jedi/Knights of the Old Republic era), there was no such censure. Jedi started training whenever, they lived, loved and reproduced, and Masters taught multiple apprentices. Same code, different interpretation.

Buh?

But doesn't... um... Whatsherface in KOTOR go on quite a bit about not having attachments and being distracted from the Force? Wasn't she taken from her family at a rather young (but not too young) age? Am I remembering wrong?

[GregPogorzelski]

ARE YOU KIDDING ME!?!?!?!?! HA!!!!!!

Not at all. "Tête à con" it is :D

Well, that aside, I mined a thing or two for my own "time to come" star wars campaign in your blurb. The three steps in jedi reformation are good stuff, imho.

[Rick]

Thanks man :) , Crib away....

[LoneWolf23]

I am so loving this thread.. And the ideas here made me think of something...

You can adapt the plotline of a kung fu movie to the Star Wars Universe rather easily, by using "The Force" to replace "Kung Fu".

Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, becomes the last story of a few Jedi having to deal with the apprentice of a Dathomir Nightsister.

The Swordsman becomes the story of a Sith Holocron containing powerful Force Knowledge which becomes the focus of a battle between Jedi and other Rogue Force Users.

Once Upon a Time in China becomes the story of a Force Adept from a low-tech world which has recently become a part of Imperial territory.

[Craig Oxbrow]

I am so loving this thread.. And the ideas here made me think of something...

You can adapt the plotline of a kung fu movie to the Star Wars Universe rather easily, by using "The Force" to replace "Kung Fu".
Star Wars includes vast quantities of Akira Kurosawa samurai films.

[CosmicCowboy]

I don't agree with this, actually. I believe it is indeed Anakin that brings balance to the Force as Qui-Gon suggested, but only after a long, dark fall and then a redemption. He's the one that kills the Emperor (and indirectly, himself) after all.

Well, he does kill every jedi, leaving only Obi-Wan and Yoda alive.

[Jason D]

Ideas would be appreciated, as well as thoughts on whether 15-20 years makes for a reasonable timeframe for Luke and Leia to train four new masters and a couple dozen Knights.

The only thing I'd suggest is that if Leia and Han do get married and have children who appear in the stories, they NOT name one of them Anakin.

It never made sense to me that they would do so. That name, to both of them, has a pretty unpleasant resonance, doesn't it?

Leia's entire experience with Anakin was... let's see, torture, the destruction of her home planet and family, killing of dozens of Rebel pilots over the Death Star, the risk to her lover's life, and then the maiming of her brother.

Han got off a little easier, with mere torture and threatened death in carbon freezing (a procedure not tested on humans before, apparently).

I ran a brief campaign set in this timeframe where I told the characters that nothing from the EU was being used, and they were somehow surprised when they encountered the Millenium Falcon, piloted by a greying Chewbacca and his Jedi passenger, Ben Skywalker Solo. They all got a big kick out of that.

[Joshua Dyal]

Well, he does kill every jedi, leaving only Obi-Wan and Yoda alive.
I don't believe the balance has anything to do with the "imbalance" between the Jedi and the Sith. The Jedi, despite their numbers, are theoretically balanced within the Force. There were hints in Attack of the Clones of the Dark Side clouding and reducing the effectiveness of the Force for the Jedi.

By bringing balance to the Force, I think it's specifically talking about removing Darth Sidious, who was the single cause of imbalance in the Force. When Vader killed him as part of his transition back to being Anakin Skywalker, he brought balance to the Force, not when he led the Jedi purges.

[fredramsey]

Looks like I'm a little late to this party, but I'll tell you what I'm doing in my current SW campaign:

It is 5 years after the battle of Endor. The Empire did not suddenly crumble after the death of the Emperor. There is a Regent on the throne on Coruscant, and the Empire still hold the Core worlds and quite a few more. The Sith are on the rise again, due to the Emperor's and Vaders apprentices (they threw out the "Rule of Two" after the formation of the Empire).

The burgeoning New Republic is lead by Mon Mothma, with Admiral Han Solo in charge of the New Republic Fleet.

There is a silent war between the two factions. Much spying, covert operations, arms build-up, etc.

On Yavin IV, Luke Skywalker runs his new Jedi Academy, with the help of his sister Leia Organa Solo, and several Jedi masters who came out of hiding once the Emperor was defeated.

The players are, for the most part, Jedi Padawans.

The Galactic Civil War is far from over...

[GregPogorzelski]

What it lacks to be true to kung-fu movies is warring school. Now, if (as I entend to do) you move, what, un little hundred years forward, you can have a Jedi Order divided, with no Luke to tell what's wrong or right (since he's the last jedi).

Let's say he did a poor job at explaining what the Force is (he wasn't the most educated jedi, after all - an ex-farmer, formed in a rush by a dying master). When he dies, it takes, what, twenty-something years for the Jedi Order to divide itself. The Orthodox Jedi Temple, the Reformed Sanctuary of the Light Side, the Ancient and Respected Order of Mace Windu Followers... Think evangelist churches, apocalyptic cults, catholic schisms... The Jedi Order becomes a galaxy of little churches. Of course, each and every order is quite sure that only them got "it" right, and that the other are more or less darksidey.

Here, DarkSider becomes a kind of political insult like "commie", "trotskist" or "heretic" was. And of course, while these orders are secretly warring against each other, they have to maintain a social face of united whole to the rest of the galaxy, in order to keep their place as Guardians of the Republic... They might even have a Great Council scheduled in order to bring together some kind of cannon. I let you figure out what kind of mess it could be (have you ever play Credo?).

[Black Isis]

I, too, would keep the Thrawn (at least the first trilogy) part of the history, but I think I would set my game 50 or 60 years down the road.

The New Republic is slowly attracting systems to its fold, but its organization is much different now -- the federal government is weak, and exists only for the purpose of mutual defense and facilitating trade, as few planets are willing to allow the Senate the power to pull another Empire. Though the Republic maintains a significant fleet, larger than any two or three systems put together, in large part, the Republic military is dwarfed by member planet military forces (and thus, cannot execute major military actions without the assistance of member planets). They have only managed to fight successfully against the remainder of the Empire thanks to the support of the Mon Calamari and Corellians, but with the recent passing of Ackbar, Solo, and Iblis, that support is in danger.

The Jedi Order has been reformed, but because there are still so few Jedi for the entire Republic, they are spread out widely, and need the assistance a large number of mundanes in their roles as "Republic marshals". They control their own small fleet (often attached to the Republic navy), and the arrival of a Jedi fleet in a system (led by two Jedi, usually, with a handful of moderate-sized ships) is often greeted with suspicion or resentment at "Republic meddling".

Meanwhile, in the Imperial sectors, many systems are still under the bootheel of Thrawn's legacy -- a dying Empire, albeit one where those who remember his time in command are trying to live up to his example. In many ways, the Imperial navy is the most enlightened component of this state, and it is the Grand Admiral of the fleet who is actually "in control" of the Empire, but his power comes only at the whim of the most powerful Moffs, and often finds himself forced to perform tasks he finds stupid or distasteful to keep their favor. Most of the Empire is riddled with corruption, slavery, and injustice -- but the navy tolerates this so that they can continue their war of "unity" -- pledging that once order has been restored, they will clean up the domestic problems.

The Empire has even fewer Jedi at their disposal than the Republic (and the treachery of Joruus C'baoth has made the command staff extremely reluctant to trust any of them). However, the Ubiqtoriate has a a number of Force-sensitive agents, as does the Imperial Inquisition -- the Grand Admiral's one trump card to keep the worst of the Moffs in line (many remember the bloody end of Moff Fillinanamehere, whose regime ended when five Imperial Inquisitors at the head of a small Imperial force killed him, anyone with claim to the throne, and his upper command staff and established the planet as a military protectorate, until it was eventually handed over to one of the Grand Admiral's favored Moffs).

Meanwhile, sufficiently strong planets and those too far from both the Republic and Empire remain staunchly independent, and aim to keep it that way. The Hutts control a criminal empire from their seat on Nal Hutta, while various economic federations have sprung up to oppose intrusion by the major powers. Here, neither the Republic or Empire are welcomed, but they are tolerated, as the largest market for both legitimate and criminal enterprises are in the core worlds, and no one can afford to alienate them. Here, Jedi and their Imperial counterparts are not welcome, but often come here secretly to deal with agents of the other powers or investigate matters.

Best part of this set up is that I don't feel dirty if players want to be Imperials, and both sides are more grey, rather than black and white. Not sure if it's everyone's bag though, certainly. :)

[Black Isis]

The burgeoning New Republic is lead by Mon Mothma, with Admiral Han Solo in charge of the New Republic Fleet.

Han is a general, not an admiral! Come on. Don't be dissin' the Ackbar!

Best squidman admiral ever!

[fredramsey]

There can be more than on admiral, as there is in our own military.

[Black Isis]

Yeah, but Ackbar should be in charge. It's just not right to not have it that way. :)

[fredramsey]

Ah, but have you asked yourself *why* Han is leading the fleet, and why Leia, though married to him, is becoming a Jedi master? Perhaps, just perhaps, I have a story going on there.... ;)

Oh, and though I don't like the EU stuff, in it, Ackbar retired after Endor, I believe.

[Nelzie]

During these early years while meditating dagobah, Luke found Yoda's second reason for hiding in such a vile uninviting place...the compressed data archive files (Think zip disc) that backed up what was once the greatest library in the galaxy...the Jedi archives. Though it would take the finest slicer minds several years to crack yoda's incryption code it was much like opening the greatest treasure trove imaginable.


I like the rest, but this bit needs a little something.

In the WotC Core Worlds book, they do touch on the Jedi Temple on Coruscant. Apparently, it was sealed and trapped by Palpatine after the fall of the Jedi. I imagine that he left it whole as a monument to his greatness in finally defeating the Jedi Order. Plus, there was probably some knowledge hidden away in there that he would want for himself that he was going to 'get to' someday.

So, the massive library of Jedi knowledge should, more or less, still be intact within the Jedi Temple. Of course, protected by very dangerous traps, battle droids and maybe even other nastiness of a Sith artifact sort. (Think Sith Alchemy powered Bio-Mechanical Monstrousities wielding Lightsabers.)

[GregPogorzelski]

So, the massive library of Jedi knowledge should, more or less, still be intact within the Jedi Temple. Of course, protected by very dangerous traps, battle droids and maybe even other nastiness of a Sith artifact sort. (Think Sith Alchemy powered Bio-Mechanical Monstrousities wielding Lightsabers.)

Now THAT's a dungeon.

[UglyJimStudly]

I'm looking at starting the game some 15-20 years after ROTJ, with the PCs being the latest graduating class of Jedi apprentices (they'll all start with 1 level of Jedi in addition to 1 or 2 levels of prior experience in other classes before being recruited).

I've run a very similar campaign concept, with a similar chucking of almost all the extended universe stuff (I kept the Admiral Thrawn trilogy for the most part). My hook for the campaign was that politics in the new/restored Republic made it very difficult for Luke to get his Jedi school going - there was a lot of nasty political infighting for the prestige of being the Jedi's new home, as well as a sizable faction who thought Force-users were just going to be trouble and so opposed any official status for a new Jedi Council at all.

The ultimate compromise was to have the Jedi headquartered on a starship, a captured star destroyer with all the heavy ordnance ripped out. Named the Obi-Wan Kenobi, it's a combination Jedi academy/diplomatic mission with more than a small role in intrigue and espionage. It carries a lot of subsidiary craft, up to tramp freighter size, and its SOP is to travel to a region, take up station somewhere for anywhere from a month to a year, and try to do something useful for the Republic while recruiting and training Force sensitive types, dealing with any local troubles in which Jedi aid might be useful, and so on. I was kinda going for a Star Trek meets Star Wars feel, and it worked decently.

The PCs would sometimes be on the Kenobi training or dealing with Republic emissaries or whatever, and sometimes be dispatched in a small ship to some nearby world that had requested help (or occasionally was being given help absent any request on their part). Allowed for a bunch of different types of sessions and adventures.

[Nelzie]

Now THAT's a dungeon.

Exactly, especially considering that the Jedi Temple is composed of one single Massive Building, think the area of a few dozen Football Arenas filled with halls, rooms, libraries, training facilities and anything else you can think of. On top of that, there are 5 extremely tall towers (each nearly as long as an Imperial Star Destroyer), also filled with halls, rooms, libraries, comm stations and whatever else you can think of.

You could almost plan a campaign based simply upon that. Granted, it would be better to have the PCs clear an area, let the Order move into that cleared area and get things running while the PCs go off on adventures and maybe sometimes need to come back to help clear out another area.

That's what our group did. The GM had us enter one of the towers, which was a main library/museum tower. It was filled with tons of traps, Battle Droids and the museum was simply awesome.

In it, there were literally hundreds upon hundreds of items from thoughout the Order's history. Things like the armor of Mandalorian warriors, along with the shell of one of their Basilisk battle droids. Rooms were filled with armor used by Jedi over the ages, from heavy stuff, similar to what Vader was wearing, which forced that slower, heavier type of Lightsaber combat to lightweight armor that was little more then protection against spears and arrows.

There was also a room filled with lightsabers, dating back to the dawn of those that called themselves Jedi. It was in this room that we came across types of lightsabers that our characters had never seen, like two-bladed sabers, a matched set of short/long blades.

It was quite an adventure. There were even some droids still performing their regular temple maintenance duties after all those years, they were simply ignored in the closing of the temple and for the most part were simple maintenance droids. Except for the archive droids, which were helpful in determining aspects of the temple.

That adventure ended up taking nearly 3 sessions to complete. Good times, good times.

[Kiero]

Buh?

But doesn't... um... Whatsherface in KOTOR go on quite a bit about not having attachments and being distracted from the Force? Wasn't she taken from her family at a rather young (but not too young) age? Am I remembering wrong?

Bastilla does. My take? Bioware cocked up, everything else from that era (well the comics) was very different. It even refers to people from that era (which is only 50 years before) in the game.

Nomi Sunrider who Jolee mentions? She was married to a Jedi who was the son of a Jedi. She had a daughter, and when her husband was killed, she became a Jedi (she must have been in her twenties). Later, her daughter was trained.

If that isn't a blatant indication of a different interpretation (all those connections!), I don't know what is. It's a total red herring, it's never been explicitly said that non-attachment is the "One True Way (to quote an RPGNet favourite. :))

[Nelzie]

Bastilla does. My take? Bioware cocked up, everything else from that era (well the comics) was very different. It even refers to people from that era (which is only 50 years before) in the game.

Nomi Sunrider who Jolee mentions? She was married to a Jedi who was the son of a Jedi. She had a daughter, and when her husband was killed, she became a Jedi (she must have been in her twenties). Later, her daughter was trained.

If that isn't a blatant indication of a different interpretation (all those connections!), I don't know what is. It's a total red herring, it's never been explicitly said that non-attachment is the "One True Way (to quote an RPGNet favourite. :))

I don't think they cocked up so much as at first the game was likely going to take place in a different era and after they laid down some of the groundwork, they needed to make changes.

I mean look at the bad guys, they are practically Storm Troopers. Look at their starships, they are practically TIE Fighters and Imperial Star Destroyers.

It just screams post Battle of Endor, but someone decided they needed to change the time period, hence the redressing and the keeping of many themes. At least that is my bizarro theory...

[Peers]

Lesse... I would try to combine action with a little political intrigue... after all, if the alliance is taking over and forming a new Republic... there's going to be slimeballs who try to get in good with them and work their way up the ladder strictly for their own power. What happens when an Alliance general starts a coup?

If Luke trains Leia and they start training others... well, there need to be evil jedi... why not Luke and Leia? After all, when it comes to the Sith... always two there are, a master, and an aprentice. Something has corrupted them (Yoda's tree-cave-thing?) and turned them to the dark side, but will their own students be able to see that in time to stop whatever plans they have?

[GregPogorzelski]

(much goodies snipped)

That adventure ended up taking nearly 3 sessions to complete. Good times, good times.

And now, I so want to add a dark jedi and his apprentice to the mix and run something like that. Like, soon.

I'm a sucker for badwrong dungeon fun.

[Kiero]

I don't think they cocked up so much as at first the game was likely going to take place in a different era and after they laid down some of the groundwork, they needed to make changes.

I mean look at the bad guys, they are practically Storm Troopers. Look at their starships, they are practically TIE Fighters and Imperial Star Destroyers.

It just screams post Battle of Endor, but someone decided they needed to change the time period, hence the redressing and the keeping of many themes. At least that is my bizarro theory...

Possibly. But I can't imagine it would have been too difficult to clean up all the "plot" references.

Like the whole thing about "Jedi can't love" Bastilla spouts. Not in that era. The Council claiming to make an "exception" in training "old" Revan. That's all Rise of Empire era baggage.

To be honest aside from being enjoyable games, I don't like what KotOR did with the metaplot. Killing off all the Jedi in the second game? Over the top. And again has echoes of the Clone Wars and the Jedi Purge.

Maybe you're right, they thought they were making different games before someone switched on them. :confused:

[Rick]

I think it's an interesting idea with the whole Jedi Temple/Dungeon thing. However it's way to much of a Dundgeon crawl for my tastes and doesn't feel terrible StarWarsie to me, the adventure on the first Death Star sort of echoes a Dungeon, that's sort of a singular event in the series.

[CosmicCowboy]

There were hints in Attack of the Clones of the Dark Side clouding and reducing the effectiveness of the Force for the Jedi.

Mmm, I see where you're coming from, but I'm not sure that those were hints at the Dark Side causing the difficulty. It could just as easily be that the force has some limits, and there were simply too many Jedi; there needed to be a culling.

I don't follow the EU; is there any indication the the power of the Force increased with the death of the Emperor?

[Nelzie]

I think it's an interesting idea with the whole Jedi Temple/Dungeon thing. However it's way to much of a Dundgeon crawl for my tastes and doesn't feel terrible StarWarsie to me, the adventure on the first Death Star sort of echoes a Dungeon, that's sort of a singular event in the series.

That's why you don't base the entire campaign on that. It would be a side piece of a larger story, like the rebuilding of the Jedi Order. It would provide something fun that would help advance the characters without pushing the main story to far forward to quickly.

You also have to ask, what exactly is a Star Wars campaign?

Does every single campaign session have to be filled with a galactic shattering conflict? No, not exactly.

Does there need to be a large amount of action and fast-paced excitement? Certainly! Which is entirely possible in a reclaim the Jedi Temple adventure. Imagine the players sneaking around the temple and ending up in that really long and large hallway that Obi Wan, Mace Windu and Yoda were strolling down in EpII. Now, imagine the PCs getting chased by extremely fast Sith Alchemy powered lightsaber wielding death machines. No, not just one or two of them, but a dozen or more.

That can be pretty exciting.

Then there is also the mystery of the Force. Things could be answered that the players wouldn't be able to get answers from elsewhere. Then, there is the whole 'Prophecy' thing that is talked about in the Prequals. There is bound to be other propheties all over the place. What better place to find them then in the Jedi Temple?

The player's could be clearing out a section and then come across a room filled with shelves along with some large tapestries. If they spend time looking at them, they might notice a few scenes stitched into them that look remarkably like events they personally witnessed, nothing so clear, like Imperial Star Destroyers, but perhaps a stylized scene that looks much like a duel they experienced with some Dark Sider.

If they start getting suspicious, they might discover some cryptic notes or prophetic ramblings that have pieces of their recent adventures as well as loose references to what they might experience...

Thus showing that the Force works in mysterious ways.

[CosmicCowboy]

When he dies, it takes, what, twenty-something years for the Jedi Order to divide itself. The Orthodox Jedi Temple, the Reformed Sanctuary of the Light Side, the Ancient and Respected Order of Mace Windu Followers.

That would be a pretty kick ass game, IMO.

[Rick]

Oh no, ofcourse every session isn't galaxy shattering. I actually run most my game slike a saturday morning serial or cartoon. Most of the stories are small and personal or local in scale, Jedi root out pirate in asteroid belt, then they have to thwart an assassination attempt against a co-orprate guild diplomate fallowed by investigating the reason for increased imperial activity in the DMZ. That's a few months worth of games there. Then they realize the past incidents are all connected, and leading up to something, the major epic story; three 6-9 session episodes that are the equivilant to one trilogy of movies. Next They go back to the saturday morning serial convention; They broker a peace treaty between waring systems, infiltrate a slaver operation on Malastare then, in the process of the last mandate they follow a lead that connects the slaver to Republic senaters who are trying to push through a bill that will bring the Jedi Order under the auspice of the Legistlature. Then another movie, this one where Master Skywalker dies (of old age) and the Republic gets pushy about the Jedi's independants....I'm seeing a 3 musketeers vibe and the Jedi go into hiding and work to undo the evil that these senaters put into motion and protect a vulnerable but good chancelor....

That's how I run my starwars games. I try to avoid old school Dungeon crawls, though things may come up that are similar, but usually much more abrieviated.

Most stories would begin with the Jedi getting their mandates, then going from there.

[Wookie]

KoTOR 2 kills off almost every Jedi, but not all. There were about 100 hidden Jedi still around (and losing numbers), plus the Jedi who no longer obeyed their code and left the order to join Revan.

I personally dislike the split between the Rebellion and the Empire in the post RoTJ Star Wars. The Empire came out of the Republic, and the rebels came from the Empire. Most of what was wrong with the Empire is still going to be found in this new order in my opinion. Here's why I think that would make the most sense.

Basically the Rebels, in an unflattering light, are a collection of imperials, mistreated aliens, religious wackos, criminals and seperatists. Half of them probably want to seccede from the Republic and its massively unfair trade restrictions and tariffs, the other half are just Imperials warlords who's apple pie ideals were eaten. Luke - he's an imperial. Han - a criminal. Leia - she's totally an imperial! Mon Mothma is the same. Admiral Ackbar? He's a warlord.

These imperial warlords who are causing problems... guess what - most of them should have been rebels. The fringe worlds have always been fairly rebelious. The core worlds are the Empire, whether or not it calls itself a Republic or not.

If you want to know how totally screwy things are going to get after the Empire falls apart, just think about it.

The Empire which kept war from breaking out between planets and kept everyone in the "Republic" just lost a sizeable amount of its military power and its leader. Now it can't stop any powerful planet from carving up its sector. Suddenly the Republic loses a whole bunch of outlying rebel worlds who never wanted to be in the Empire or the Republic. Then you have rebel warlords who really, really wanted to take over the Empire and they turn on the Republic. The Jedi return, but guess what, they're not really Jedi seeing as how the teachings have been lost. The new order would be considered weak, undisciplined, perverted and tainted by the dark side according to orthodox true Jedi of the past. The core world rebels, who are imperials who didn't like the Emperor, would be busy trying to keep everything from exploding, acting like an intergalactic UN.

The Rebellion would fragment and turn on itself after its victory. The Imperial governors would have allied themselves with the core worlds and most would have joined the Republic. Why? Because the Republic is the Empire! To just seperate from the core worlds is cutting oneself off from the trade and order that made the Empire. To be a true Imperial means being true to the Republic that was at the heart of their Empire.

Most people that liked the Empire, loved the Republic. Most people that hated the Empire, disliked the Republic. Some people were exceptions. The EU seems to have this backwards and thus I don't find them very believable. The EU also seems to have a weird idea about Jedi just flourishing and picking up great students, despite the fact that they're not even real Jedi anymore. Thats right they're a school of pretenders, at least the Sith have a longer unbroken line of teachings, the Jedi have half trained force users training others. Its like the blind leading the blind. If I was a force user at this time I'd politely leave Luke and look for some real teachers and some force users with an actual legacy of teachings. Then I'd start my own force using religion, and not follow the Jedi. They wiped themselves out and they apparently fall to the darkside all the time. If I was a force user I'd say no to the Jedi restrictions and look for some real religious guidance in developing myself and avoiding corruption. The galaxy is a big place and the Jedi were the most prevalent, but now they're very small, and the other force philosophies are much more advanced than what Luke has had time to put together.

The Jedi will have a lot of growing up to do and other force users may start their own intergalactic orders. The rebels are going to de-claw and sabotage the Republic until its no longer capable of being an empire - or even holding itself together. Meanwhile interstellar relations and trade start to break down, threatening to collapse the galaxy into a new dark age.

Thats me re-imaging the post RoTJ era, and its nothing like what I find in the EU.

[fredramsey]

Wow. Did you vote Republican, by any chance? ;)

[Joshua Dyal]

Best part of this set up is that I don't feel dirty if players want to be Imperials, and both sides are more grey, rather than black and white. Not sure if it's everyone's bag though, certainly. :)
Exactomundo. It's hard to keep up that black and white crusader vibe of the original trilogy; even the prequels don't really. As far as it drifts from the feel of the original movies, I'm always tempted to turn my games into darker and gritter, shades of gray games with intrique, paranoia and whatnot.

[Joshua Dyal]

In the WotC Core Worlds book, they do touch on the Jedi Temple on Coruscant. Apparently, it was sealed and trapped by Palpatine after the fall of the Jedi. I imagine that he left it whole as a monument to his greatness in finally defeating the Jedi Order. Plus, there was probably some knowledge hidden away in there that he would want for himself that he was going to 'get to' someday.
I wouldn't be very comfortable making statements like that until after May 19th. After all, there's a shot of the Jedi temple burning in the trailer; they may actually address something along those lines in the movie. As far as I'm concerned, movies trump anything else by a long shot; anything non-movie might be scrapped at nothing more than my own whim.

[fredramsey]

True, but I reserve the right to ignore the prequels... [shudder], like Jar-Jar... ;)

I wouldn't be very comfortable making statements like that until after May 19th. After all, there's a shot of the Jedi temple burning in the trailer; they may actually address something along those lines in the movie. As far as I'm concerned, movies trump anything else by a long shot; anything non-movie might be scrapped at nothing more than my own whim.

[Joshua Dyal]

Mmm, I see where you're coming from, but I'm not sure that those were hints at the Dark Side causing the difficulty. It could just as easily be that the force has some limits, and there were simply too many Jedi; there needed to be a culling.
Well, they weren't exactly hints; Yoda said that exactly. So, no, I'm not convinced on your idea.

[CosmicCowboy]

Well, they weren't exactly hints; Yoda said that exactly. So, no, I'm not convinced on your idea.

Uh, I must have missed that part. What exactly did he say?

And if you're talking about the "Difficult to see, the Dark Side is. Clouds everything it does" I'm not sure that was in reference to their abilities to use the Force, other than to determine the courses the future could take.

[Joshua Dyal]

Uh, I must have missed that part. What exactly did he say?

And if you're talking about the "Difficult to see, the Dark Side is. Clouds everything it does" I'm not sure that was in reference to their abilities to use the Force, other than to determine the courses the future could take.
Don't remember the exact words. Have you read the novelization of the movie, though? It's even more explicit there than in the movie itself.

[CosmicCowboy]

Don't remember the exact words. Have you read the novelization of the movie, though? It's even more explicit there than in the movie itself.

Nope. Haven't read it. I'll take your word for it.

[Nelzie]

I wouldn't be very comfortable making statements like that until after May 19th. After all, there's a shot of the Jedi temple burning in the trailer; they may actually address something along those lines in the movie. As far as I'm concerned, movies trump anything else by a long shot; anything non-movie might be scrapped at nothing more than my own whim.

If you have already started up a campaign that throws out aspects of the EU, eschews canon and has different events then what happened in the original 3 movies... Why would one suddenly decide to follow canon just because something ends up being different in this next movie?

So far, it has been said that Palpatine locked up and set traps in the Jedi Temple on Coruscant, that's in 'official' source book material. If GL decides that it would look much cooler to have a gigantic ass fly down from the atmosphere and drop a gigantic explosive flaming poop onto the structure, that's his choice. It doesn't mean that we, in our campaign, must decide to radically rewrite what has happened and then null and void all of those adventures we had.

To us, it will be a great looking special effect in George Lucas' Star Wars Saga. Nothing in it will have any bearing on Our Star Wars Saga, unless it can easily fit into what we already have experienced and decided.

[fredramsey]

I always thought the "Balance to the Force" was a little shakey. So "Balance" means get rid of the the bad guys and leave 1 good guy? Bull.

It would be infintely more entertaining and plausable to approach it with the "Without Darkness there is no Light" kind of thing. Perhaps the Force is only in balance when there is conflict, when there is evil.

[Wookie]

Exactomundo. It's hard to keep up that black and white crusader vibe of the original trilogy; even the prequels don't really. As far as it drifts from the feel of the original movies, I'm always tempted to turn my games into darker and gritter, shades of gray games with intrique, paranoia and whatnot.

After reading science fiction like Dune and then rethinking star wars and star trek, I'm tempted by the shades of gray approach.

What is the Republic anyway? They're like the World Bank, World Trade Organization and the UN put together. Its just an organization of planets who agree to a set of trade laws and basic rights. Thats all, they're just an organization, they aren't good incarnate.

What is the Empire? Its just the Republic gone awry.

What is the Rebellion? Its the seperatists, who disliked the Republic, and the imperials, who liked the Republic better without an emperor, banded together to fix the Empire by overthrowing its corrupt leaders.

I personally would like to mix the idea of a space opera crusade with a shades of gray morality. Romantic adventure with touch of the devious, enemies to be fought by the thousand as you continue your harrowing adventures throughout the galaxy. With enemies who can be cruel and noble by turns, where the only reason you're any better than your opponents is because you make greater sacrafices.

[Nelzie]

I always thought the "Balance to the Force" was a little shakey. So "Balance" means get rid of the the bad guys and leave 1 good guy? Bull.

It would be infintely more entertaining and plausable to approach it with the "Without Darkness there is no Light" kind of thing. Perhaps the Force is only in balance when there is conflict, when there is evil.

I looked at it as the Dark Side had simply become to powerful, in the form of Darth Sidious. Using this immense power, Darth Sidious was then able to block the senses of the Jedi Council from being able to see him and his actions.

When Sidious is destroyed, there is still evil and Dark Side users alive in the Galaxy, there is just a balance in that there is less power located in one central location/being. That's my take on it.

[fredramsey]

I can certainly see your point, but the way it was presented in those... (ugh) films, is that it was a really, really big deal in biblical proportions.

If we are to believe Yoda, the Dark Side is NOT as powerful as the light. Faster, easier, but not more powerful.

And besides, the Jedi were doing just fine in the first (horf) prequel, but they still talked about this prophesy (of course, not giving any details, that would have cut into Jar-Jar's screen time).

In my campaign, the only "canon" is the original trilogy. I pick and choose what I use, if any, from the prequels and EU - which is damn little.

But that's a whole 'nother story... ;)

I looked at it as the Dark Side had simply become to powerful, in the form of Darth Sidious. Using this immense power, Darth Sidious was then able to block the senses of the Jedi Council from being able to see him and his actions.

When Sidious is destroyed, there is still evil and Dark Side users alive in the Galaxy, there is just a balance in that there is less power located in one central location/being. That's my take on it.

[Kiero]

No one ever said the Force was getting weaker with the growth of the dark side. Only their ability to see the future.

Darth Bane believed that too many darksiders weakened the dark side, which is why he enacted the One Master, One Pupil rule for the Sith.

[Joshua Dyal]

I always thought the "Balance to the Force" was a little shakey. So "Balance" means get rid of the the bad guys and leave 1 good guy? Bull.

It would be infintely more entertaining and plausable to approach it with the "Without Darkness there is no Light" kind of thing. Perhaps the Force is only in balance when there is conflict, when there is evil.
Well, that's a sounds like a pretty cheesy D&D "True Neutral" approach to balance which I don't think makes any sense. The Jedi were inherently balanced; that was part of who they were ideally. If there were only Jedi, the Force would have remained balanced.

[Joshua Dyal]

If you have already started up a campaign that throws out aspects of the EU, eschews canon and has different events then what happened in the original 3 movies... Why would one suddenly decide to follow canon just because something ends up being different in this next movie?
Well, sure, but are we talking about your campaign now, or Ineti's or post-RotJ-ignore-EU campaigns in general?

[Rick]

Yoda never says that the Darkside is less powerful, only that it's not more powerful.

Besides it seems much more Sidious goes way above and beyond the normal Sith to actually attain power. He uses the Darkside to inhibit the Jedi's ability to see the clone army being formed, hides himself in plain sight right in front of the Jedi Council so on and so on I imagine. This is probably the inbalance. Anakin Kills the Emperor and suddenly no ones fucking with the force on such a magnetude anymore.

[fredramsey]

Hmm. I think you will find that the Rule of Two was designed to allow the Sith to stay hidden, biding their time for their return to power. The Sith were tired of getting their butts kicked, from what I have read.

Darth Bane believed that too many darksiders weakened the dark side, which is why he enacted the One Master, One Pupil rule for the Sith.

[Nelzie]

Well, sure, but are we talking about your campaign now, or Ineti's or post-RotJ-ignore-EU campaigns in general?

It's already in the source material for the current WotC incarnation of the game. Since it is there, use it, if things show up differently in the upcoming movie, that has really has no meaning to your game.

The point is, have your fun, your own way regardless of how things turn out 'officially'. If you like something from some 'official' material include it, if you don't like it, don't let it into your game, period.

[Joshua Dyal]

The point is, have your fun, your own way regardless of how things turn out 'officially'. If you like something from some 'official' material include it, if you don't like it, don't let it into your game, period.
Since the whole point of the thread was Star Wars post-RotJ but ignoring EU, I think that's a given. My whole point was, if you were recommending that for anybody else's campaign, it'd be nice just to wait the two months or whatever we have until RotS is out, and not have to worry about being annoyed because something became incompatible with the movies.

Heck, I think that's why non-EU post RotJ settings seem to be very popular. You kinda have a level playing field, can go wherever you want, and don't have to worry nearly as much about what's gonna come out in RotS, or whatever else.

[Kiero]

Hmm. I think you will find that the Rule of Two was designed to allow the Sith to stay hidden, biding their time for their return to power. The Sith were tired of getting their butts kicked, from what I have read.

That's why I put the "EU" tags around it. The instigator of the rule claimed that too many darksiders weakened the dark side. He was sick of Sith turning on each other and ruining any chance they might have of defeating the Jedi.

Jedi vs Sith is the source.

[Ineti]

Heck, I think that's why non-EU post RotJ settings seem to be very popular. You kinda have a level playing field, can go wherever you want, and don't have to worry nearly as much about what's gonna come out in RotS, or whatever else.

Yeah, I'm not worried about what may or may not happen in ROTS. I can't imagine anything happening in ROTS that would invalidate the state of the universe at the end of ROTJ.

[Kaiu Keiichi]

Exactly, especially considering that the Jedi Temple is composed of one single Massive Building, think the area of a few dozen Football Arenas filled with halls, rooms, libraries, training facilities and anything else you can think of. On top of that, there are 5 extremely tall towers (each nearly as long as an Imperial Star Destroyer), also filled with halls, rooms, libraries, comm stations and whatever else you can think of.

You could almost plan a campaign based simply upon that. Granted, it would be better to have the PCs clear an area, let the Order move into that cleared area and get things running while the PCs go off on adventures and maybe sometimes need to come back to help clear out another area.

That's what our group did. The GM had us enter one of the towers, which was a main library/museum tower. It was filled with tons of traps, Battle Droids and the museum was simply awesome.

In it, there were literally hundreds upon hundreds of items from thoughout the Order's history. Things like the armor of Mandalorian warriors, along with the shell of one of their Basilisk battle droids. Rooms were filled with armor used by Jedi over the ages, from heavy stuff, similar to what Vader was wearing, which forced that slower, heavier type of Lightsaber combat to lightweight armor that was little more then protection against spears and arrows.

There was also a room filled with lightsabers, dating back to the dawn of those that called themselves Jedi. It was in this room that we came across types of lightsabers that our characters had never seen, like two-bladed sabers, a matched set of short/long blades.

It was quite an adventure. There were even some droids still performing their regular temple maintenance duties after all those years, they were simply ignored in the closing of the temple and for the most part were simple maintenance droids. Except for the archive droids, which were helpful in determining aspects of the temple.

That adventure ended up taking nearly 3 sessions to complete. Good times, good times.

This is exactly what I need for my game, when I start it back up. Do you have notes I could borrow?

CB

[Nelzie]

Since the whole point of the thread was Star Wars post-RotJ but ignoring EU, I think that's a given. My whole point was, if you were recommending that for anybody else's campaign, it'd be nice just to wait the two months or whatever we have until RotS is out, and not have to worry about being annoyed because something became incompatible with the movies.

Heck, I think that's why non-EU post RotJ settings seem to be very popular. You kinda have a level playing field, can go wherever you want, and don't have to worry nearly as much about what's gonna come out in RotS, or whatever else.

The only reason to be annoyed would be if one has to be a stickler for canon. If someone is that much of a stickler, they probably wouldn't like digressing from any EU or otherwise 'official' material either.

Besides, what if part of the Jedi Temple burns, the place is so huge that it covers an area nearly the size of Manhattan, by itself. There would be plenty of unburnt areas to explore. So what if GL destroys the whole place in this next film, if your gameworld has it in place after the RotJ/EU and you have already tossed other things out, then obviously in your version of the Star Wars Saga the Jedi Temple was never destroyed.

Our group always assumed it was destroyed, until we read that blurb in the Coruscant description of the WotC Core Worlds supplement. After we discussed the whys, we came up with a few ideas and our GM took off with those and things worked out well.

[Nelzie]

This is exactly what I need for my game, when I start it back up. Do you have notes I could borrow?

CB

Watch the Prequel movies and pay close attention to the Jedi Temple Scenes.

Then with my above recollections, you should have enough to go on.

If you can, get a copy of the Core Worlds book from WotC, it is d20 Centric, but has tons of information that is perfect background info for a d6 WEG Star Wars game.

We decided that the 5 towers each had a specific purpose for the Order.

One was the Jedi Council's tower and filled with things that helped the Jedi Council do their running of the order type of thing, thus it was filled with the most advanced communication systems in the galaxy, to facilitate communications with Jedi and Jedi agents out in the galaxy. It had plenty of diplomatic chambers and similar.

Another tower was set aside for training, thus filled with barracks for Padawans, training rooms, lecture halls and student libraries, mess halls and similar.

Another tower was used as a historical preservation musuem, it was 'open to the public' and featured libraries, vast rooms filled with non-sensitive Jedi Artifacts.

We didn't end up exploring the other towers.

One thing about the towers is that they all had certain features shared between them all. There was some of kind of central 'command center' for each tower, think of it like a combination security, communications and housekeeping/maintenance op-center. Each had a variety of various turbo-lifts that didn't all go from the very top to the very bottom. Most had greenhouse/garden areas, all had meditation chambers and lounges for Jedi to gather and discuss things of a Jedi nature. All of them also had docking bays that could house a handful of Jedi Starships, from a few freighters as well as quite a few Jedi Starfighters.

Throughout certain areas there were quite a few traps designed to hinder, stop and kill Force using Jedi, put in place by Palpatine. From chutes that would drop a character into an lightsaber proof energy cage, to starve to death waiting for an interogator, to tesla coils that would drop from the ceiling and kick out bolts of lighting that acts much like Force Lightning, poison gas, knock-out gas, remote blaster turrets, all sorts of dangerous traps.

Early in entering the traps were designed to capture, so that Palpatine could have interogated and or possibly made hands out of any Force Sensitives. Later traps were geared towards killing Jedi, since Jedi would most likely be able to evade the earlier traps.

[JonAcheson]

Yeah, I'm not worried about what may or may not happen in ROTS. I can't imagine anything happening in ROTS that would invalidate the state of the universe at the end of ROTJ.
Here's one guess of mine that would royally screw up an idea from this thread:

My guess is, the Forces of Evil are going to blow up the Jedi Temple. I think that's why it was put into the movies in the first place: so the Jedi would have a symbol to get destroyed.

Jon Acheson

[Nelzie]

Here's one guess of mine that would royally screw up an idea from this thread:

My guess is, the Forces of Evil are going to blow up the Jedi Temple. I think that's why it was put into the movies in the first place: so the Jedi would have a symbol to get destroyed.


That would only screw up the idea, if one decided to religiously follow the movies.

Since our group threw out the certainty of the movies already, throwing out yet one more thing from the latest movies won't be that difficult to do.

[Ineti]

Here's one guess of mine that would royally screw up an idea from this thread:

I kinda expected that to happen, and my campaign sort of plans around that in case it does happen in the movies.

If not, it would be a bonus place for the PCs to explore. :)

[UglyJimStudly]

I always thought the "Balance to the Force" was a little shakey. So "Balance" means get rid of the the bad guys and leave 1 good guy? Bull.

I dunno - the actual sequence is: get rid of almost all the good guys, then later get rid of the bad guys and leave one flawed, undertrained good guy. I don't think it's a stretch to extrapolate from the end of ROTJ that Luke is going to stumble more than a few times as he tries to recreate the Jedi Order, and that there will be more darksiders as a result - both the old Republic's version of the Jedi and the Sith were all about controlling who gets to use the Force, and they're both gone now.

It would be infintely more entertaining and plausable to approach it with the "Without Darkness there is no Light" kind of thing. Perhaps the Force is only in balance when there is conflict, when there is evil.

Or at least diversity. I think you can get to that state of affairs from taking the balance prophecy as meaning that Anakin was supposed to do exactly what he did: destroy both the Jedi and the Sith. Prophecies aren't always easy to live through, after all.

[zcthu3]

Watch the Prequel movies and pay close attention to the Jedi Temple Scenes.

Then with my above recollections, you should have enough to go on.

If you can, get a copy of the Core Worlds book from WotC, it is d20 Centric, but has tons of information that is perfect background info for a d6 WEG Star Wars game.

We decided that the 5 towers each had a specific purpose for the Order.

...

See also the "Power of the Jedi" Sourcebook from WotC which has a section on pages 141-145 including spelling out the purposes of the different towers (in WotC canon anyway);

1) Central Tower: Jedi Temple
2) SW Tower: Jedi Council Spire
3) NW Tower: Council of First Knowledge
4) SE Tower: Council of Reconciliation
5) NE Tower: Reassignment Council

There is also a Public Centre (N), Adminsitration Centre (E), Jedi Training Facility (S) and Training dormitories (W) at the cardinal points.

Another way to introduce Dark Siders into the Campaign that I used a couple of years ago was the reintroduction of a Sith War Cruiser from the Hyperspace Wars - basically it was a cryogenic storage ship used as a back up for the continuation of the Sith. It was found and 'salvaged' - later it was realised that a whole group of Sith Lords, Warriors and Acolytes had been released upon the galaxy; sure, their tech level wasn't as good but it didn't take them long to fix that little problem and they had the Force (the Dark Side anyway) on their side...

All this and only Luke and his trainees to stand on their way...

[JonAcheson]

One thing I didn't like about the EU was that they kept trying to come up with a new freaky evil guy to take up where Vader and the Emperor left off.

An alternative to this is if the Empire doesn't get a new Dark Lord. Instead, they get an able and loyal administrator, and are much better off for it. (Thrawn was kind of like this, but not really. He still had a lot of Dark Lord in him.)

Now they don't have Sith dickweeds killing important prisoners, executing their own commanders when the tiniest thing goes wrong, or blowing up valuable planets where the rebellion has sympathisers, when an efficient secret police might have gotten the same job done with far less collateral damage.

It's kind of like the scenario where the Germans get to fight the middle and end of World War 2 without Hitler screwing things up.

The result is an Empire that is smaller, but regrouping and preparing to take back territory.

Jon Acheson

[Kevin Mowery]

If I were doing this setting, I wouldn't want to make the new Republic corrupt or turn the characters into villains. The movies ended with the good guys winning, and unless I was doing a full-on alternate universe (Luke falls to the Dark Side and slays the Emperor on the Death Star II), I wouldn't want to undo that.

After the Battle of Endor, without the Emperor to keep things together, the Empire crumbles. The Senate, or at least those Senators who survived, return to the Senate Chamber on Coruscant and begin governing again. There are a few years of clean-up operations, but those are pretty much over by the time of the campaign (15-20 years later).

For the most part, the rank-and-file of the military are the same. It's only the folks at the top who have changed out: Ackbar has retired recently, and Han Solo is Admiral of the fleet. Leia divides her time between Han and the children and leading the Senate.

Chewbacca is a general, but he doesn't seem to be in charge of anything. However, he has been working to integrate Wookiees more thoroughly into the Republic.

Luke has built a new Jedi temple on Tatooine in the ruins of Jabba's palace. He drew a handful of former Jedi to his side after the Battle of Endor--those who never completed their training or who left the order before the fall of the Republic. Those Jedi he trained relatively swiftly, and he sent them out to find more Force-sensitives of all ages to bring in for training. The Jedi Order is still small enough that every Jedi and padawan is likely to know all the others by name.

When Luke started the new Jedi Academy, he regularly took counsel from the spirits of Yoda, Obi-Wan, and Anakin, but as Luke has learned what he needs to know, they've appeared less and less. (Holocrons are an EU invention.)

The plotline could be another return of the Sith. Perhaps a Republic exploration ship travelled beyond the Outer Rim and found something it shouldn't have--shades of Event Horizon--and came back corrupted.

Or maybe one of Luke's earliest students, who went missing and was presumed dead, comes back as a new Sith Lord. He had gone on a pilgrimage to Dagobah to the dark side tree, and while inside he encountered Palpatine's force ghost, who turned him. On his next assignment, he disappeared and has been laying the groundwork for a new Sith rebellion.

[LoneWolf23]

Been meaning to get back to this thread sooner..

I have to agree with Kevin about not darkening the New Republic so quickly. While there was corruption even in the Old Republic, that corruption was nutured by the Sith until it overtook even the Jedi. With the Sith gone, the Rebels should be able to rebuild a new Republic without too much trouble.

On the other hand, I also agree with the idea that there should be different factions. With the overwhelming authority of the Emperor gone, it should pretty much be a free-for-all in terms of rebuilding a new galactic order.

I've heard a lot of good ideas here, including the idea of "alternate Jedi schools." With the Emperor gone, the Force-user hunt would be over, leaving Force Adepts to reassert themselves again. And while Luke rebuilds the Jedi Academy, there's no reason why other Force-User traditions couldn't come about. And, of course, there's always the possibility of someone restarting a Sith tradition.

As for the Imperial Forces, I think it would be interesting if they splintered a bit... Some commanders would become warlords of their own little galactic sector, but I could see some of the more lawful-minded actually turning around to swear loyalty to the New Republic. And perhaps a few of Palpatine's old loyalists plotting to reconquer the Galaxy using ramnants of Palpatine's darksider lore (kind of like left-over Nazis).

Meanwhile, the Republic is busy rebuilding from the ashes, and discovers that taking down an evil empire is easy: rebuilding a new government is more difficult. What with newly worlds suddenly demanding their independance, or compensation for Imperial oppression... ...And that's not even considering the ones who want to take advantage of the chaos to pick up some old racial grudges...

[Kevin Mowery]

Been meaning to get back to this thread sooner..

I have to agree with Kevin about not darkening the New Republic so quickly. While there was corruption even in the Old Republic, that corruption was nutured by the Sith until it overtook even the Jedi. With the Sith gone, the Rebels should be able to rebuild a new Republic without too much trouble.

On the other hand, I also agree with the idea that there should be different factions. With the overwhelming authority of the Emperor gone, it should pretty much be a free-for-all in terms of rebuilding a new galactic order.


I agree with all of what you're saying. I like the idea of other Force traditions gaining prominence.

However, given the time frame of 15-20 years after ROTJ, I was assuming that most of the mop-up work of taking out Imperial remnants would be over. There might be a warlord here or there or some systems that stayed unaligned, but that's the way things were under the Old Republic as well.

[Joshua Dyal]

Those aren't bad points. Personally, if it were me, I'd want to advance the timeline to closer to 100 years, or heck, even more. I'd essentially be developing my own setting "borrowing very heavily" from Star Wars.

But I always homebrew in every other game as well; I like it better than using published and established settings. I want to be able to strike out on my own.

[Trilobite]

To just seperate from the core worlds is cutting oneself off from the trade and order that made the Empire. To be a true Imperial means being true to the Republic that was at the heart of their Empire.
Some interesting and intriguing stuff in there, but let's not forget that Lucas was cribbing from a Cliff's Notes version of the end of the Roman Republic and the rise of the Roman Empire: as far as the Rebel Alliance is concerned, there is a definite difference between a democratically-elected Senate which reaches its decisions through open debate and an Emperor-for-Life who has absolute power over all things. Given that, being a "true Imperial" is going to mean having an Emperor, while being true to the Republic is going to mean restoring the Galactic Senate and electing representatives.


But socially, you're right on: the Core Worlds have a long history of being part of big government, and they're going to be inclined to keep right on being part of whatever big government gets to 'em first. I'd give good odds on there being some wicked in-fighting in the Core that will likely be settled entirely in the New Republic's favor, unless a charismatic Imperial-type manages to step forward. Which is pretty unlikely: if there were any charismatic Imperial-types in the Core Worlds, you'd be hard pressed to explain why the Emperor hadn't either killed them or laid a major whammy on 'em (because absolute dictatorships abhor potential competitors).

In contrast, selling the Republic or the Empire to worlds on the Outer Rim is always going to be tough. Though in one respect, the remnants of the old Empire and the forces of the New Republic have it a bit easier, since the massive chaos of the war has left some potent Imperial Naval firepower in the hands of local governors and Moffs and the like, with no central authority to tell them that they can't send 'em off to nearby systems to bring back resources to enrich their home sectors. The security of belonging to a bigger organization should help sway some of the systems who know for a fact that their neighbors have big guns and a willingness to use them.

That's right, fear will get the Outer Rim systems to join: fear of other Outer Rim systems.

Now, if the Galactic situation ever settles down enough that people on the Rim won't need to worry about being bombed, enslaved, or otherwise mutilated at any moment, you'll most likely start seeing the "What has the Republic done for us lately?" sentiment make a big comeback. When you're living that far out on the fringes, you just know that the capitol doesn't give a rat's ass about you; they'll make decisions that benefit the Core Worlds first, and it'll be Outer Rim tax dollars that'll pay for it. ;)

--
but that, i think, can be put further in the future than this particular game

[Ithaeur]

On the issue of "Bringing balance to the Force":

I interpret the whole balance thing thusly: The Sith (and other Dark Side-aligned Force-users) are definitely unbalanced and unbalancing; they feed upon the Dark Side to commit their acts of selfishness and destruction, thus strengthening the Dark Side. Their presence always creates an unbalance, which only grows worse the longer they get away with it.

On the other hand, the late Jedi Order (in the prequel era) was also unbalanced, defining themselves more and more as anti-Dark Side instead of Light (Bright?) Side. Look at the Jedi: they recruit children and raise them away from their families, they practice celibacy and renounce emotion for the fear of falling into the Dark Side, and are becoming more and more insular and rigidly traditional. I also get a strong feeling that the Jedi Order was not paying anywhere near enough attention to mundane sources of information, instead relying on their admittedly impressive archives and their ability of foresight. (Which don't help them much when Dooku, subverted by Palpatine, has edited the archives and the Dark Side is clouding the foresight. Obi-Wan, as befits Qui-Gon Jinn's former apprentice, seems to be unusually flexible for a late-Republic Jedi.)

The optimal Balance would have been Anakin reforming the Jedi Order, and eliminating Palpatine's presence. However, the Order is too stiff to take him fully in, and Anakin himself is too hot-headed, and tragedy (as well as the three original movies) ensues.

How this affects the post-ROTJ era?

Luke is the first of the new Jedi, the founder of the new Order, and his vision of the Jedi, his understanding of their role, is going to be different. Note the opposition of Obi-Wan and Yoda, both remnants of the old Order, to Luke's announcements that he's going to save his friends and to try and redeem his father. In the end, although their worries were not unjustified, it's Luke who is right, in both cases.

Of course, the new Jedi order is going to lack much of the knowledge, both theoretical and practical, of the old. There are going to be plenty of mistakes, and probably people falling to the Dark Side... but it's going to be a vital Order, not the ossified one of the late Republic era.

[Iacobus]

But socially, you're right on: the Core Worlds have a long history of being part of big government, and they're going to be inclined to keep right on being part of whatever big government gets to 'em first. I'd give good odds on there being some wicked in-fighting in the Core that will likely be settled entirely in the New Republic's favor, unless a charismatic Imperial-type manages to step forward. Which is pretty unlikely: if there were any charismatic Imperial-types in the Core Worlds, you'd be hard pressed to explain why the Emperor hadn't either killed them or laid a major whammy on 'em (because absolute dictatorships abhor potential competitors).


Bear in mind that, for example, a Super Star Destroyer gives a pretty big bonus to one's charisma. And the New Republic? Well, in the EU-canon, it took almost the entire New Republic fleet to deal with Zsinj's SSD. So you might see some sort of variant on the KMT government in China in the 1920s: the form of a civil government, but fundamentally a group of warlords wielded together by fear of the Rebellion, the Ssi-ruuk, or each other.