Buying a printer, what am I missing?

[BiggusGeekus]

I googled up some prices on printing machines. After exaustive reasearch -- at least 10 minutes worth -- I'm guessing the price of a reasonable-to-poor printing machine is about $25,000.

Given the lifetime cost to print books, why not pick one of these babies up and toss it in the basement? You open up a side buisness of printing and after a few years the machine has paid for itself.

This seems so obvious, I can only think of four problems:

1) storing the machine is a pain and most people can't do it.
2) it's harder than it looks
3) there are a ton of associated expenses that I don't know about
4) People just can't pony up the $25,000.

Am I missing something here?

[hellsreach]

I googled up some prices on printing machines. After exaustive reasearch -- at least 10 minutes worth -- I'm guessing the price of a reasonable-to-poor printing machine is about $25,000.

Given the lifetime cost to print books, why not pick one of these babies up and toss it in the basement? You open up a side buisness of printing and after a few years the machine has paid for itself.

This seems so obvious, I can only think of four problems:

1) storing the machine is a pain and most people can't do it.
2) it's harder than it looks
3) there are a ton of associated expenses that I don't know about
4) People just can't pony up the $25,000.

Am I missing something here?

What kind of printer? If it's a 4 to 6 color offset job, you aren't getting that anywhere NEAR a basement. If it a small 11 x 17, single color offset printer, you shouldn't be paying anywhere near $25k ($1k - 5K max--I'm assuming one is smart and buys used equipment). Add to that, you need a computer to perform ripping functions, your need a machine to make your plates, you need a darkroom to develop your films (should you go that route), you need a supply of ink bankets, not to mention the ink. You need storage for paper, you need to way to vent the fouls smells inherent to offset printing. You need additional supplies to do repairs and the cleanup is very time consuming in itself... and that is just to print!

You need a supply of 10pt cardstock for your cover and a laminator (should you print them yourself -- of course, without a 4-color press, printing four colors is fairly difficult and time consuming, since you'd need to change the ink, blanket, plates, and clean-up after each of the Black, Cyan, Yellow, and Magenta print runs. After you have your cover, you then need a binder and a gluer and finally you need a cutter to trim your pages down.

...and you still need to store the 500 - 1000 books you just printed. Just like in using a outside printer, you really have to print quite a few of the books because the time required to change plates for EVERY spead in a book, is not trivial. Printing only 100 books would take almost as much time as printing 1000 and your time is, after all, not free.

Of course, all this assumes you are even a half-way decent pressman yourself, which is a craft in its own right.

[BiggusGeekus]

Gotcha.

So a total combiation of #1 #2 and #3.

Ah well. Thanks for your response.

[Destriarch]

You might consider instead going for a high-end quality laser digital printer. That's what most PoD companies do. But then you also have the expense of the binder, and I'd recommend having a saddle stitch machine (pretty cheap) and a power guillotine for evening up the edges too. The advantage of this is digital is a lot easier to learn how to use. The disadvantage is that quality will suffer, especially in large areas of solid black, and the running costs are higher. They aren't actually that much slower these days though if you're willing to spend the money, except when you're processing full colour stuff of course. For ordinary B&W interiors it's a very viable option.

Ash

[MatrixGamer]

Check out Digital Duplicators. Fast and inexpensive.

Chris Engle
Hamster Press

[Guildofblades]

They also make 4 color digital duplicators, but they are still a fairly new invention, so they cost a pretty penny brand new.

[MatrixGamer]

The $25,000 machine is an offset press (more than likely) These use oil based inks and quite honestly stink. If you do get one and put it in your basement invest in some real good ventilation. Solvents are carcinagens.

Also printing is only half of the job. Once printed, pages need to be bound. Guide of Blades and I have gone different routes in this regard. Ryan got a perfect binder while I bought a smyth sewing machine. So leave room in the basement for a few more machines.

Chris Engle
Hamster Press

[Eldoria]

Greetings,

How much does a perfect bind machine run? What brands/models would people recommend?

William

[hellsreach]

In a perfect world where you have both tons of money and space, you should consider a digital offset press (HP Indigo and similar). This works like a "normal" offset press except the press has an internal computer that does the ripping and (coolest of all) creates digital "plates" that the press uses to apply a dry ink (not a toner).

Unless you have multiples of six-figure sums sitting in your bank, that type of machine will probably be out of reach for many years to come.

Of course, you still need to manage seperate lamination and bindery, but if you could afford a digital offset press, binding equipment, cutters and the like would be trivial.

[Guildofblades]

Perfect Binders are a bit tough.

Standard produces one model that can be bought new for about $8k to $10k. There was a much cheaper unit produced recenty called the Bind Fast that could be bought for around $3,500, but it did not create a very sturdy binding.

We found an older machine on the secondary market that is larger industrial machine. Got a good deal on it. We chose for older because some of the older machines are purely mechanical beasts and are actually cheaper to maintain and repair should that become neccessary. Our model was the Sulby Minibinda II.

Expect to pay at least $2k up to $5 for a used model IF you can find a good deal. Just depends on the type of machine you want. New, well, those can run generally from $8K to $100k. Depends on the level of automation you want.

[MatrixGamer]

I got my Smyth sewing machine for around $1600 but it is a hundred years old. Don't over look antique equipment. They built things to last right up to the 1930's. Also such machines are not that expensive. I was out in the workshop last night sewing up books for GenCon (Hamster Press Booth 302) and was just humming along.

Chris Engle
Hamster Press

[sirfrancisdrake]

i think itd be awesome if you made handmade printed books with a lithographic press! You can transfer images and text printed from a computer directly onto the litho plate or stone! I would definitely by a handmade rpg book, just cause each one would be an original. sometimes people even give litho presses away! you just have to pay to move it. And they weigh several thousand pounds, not including the hefty limestone slab you put your images on. yeah itll never happen....

Mike