LoveInterests in Rpg's

[ChapinoMuse]

How does love interests usally play in your RPG?

[Kai Tave]

Ladies and gentlemen, I apologize in advance for this. It is a blatant sign of immaturity on my part, and you should all feel free to add me to your ignore list.

Chapino... For the love of Strunk and White READ WHAT YOU ARE WRITING, THEN HIT THE "POST BUTTON", NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

You just misspelled a THREE LETTER WORD. Three letters. We are NOT talking Masters-level English here. This is stuff I learned not to do in the third grade. Nobody's perfect, and I fuck things up every now and then, but you do not even appear to be making an active EFFORT to correct even the most basic and obvious errors you make. You have a "preview post" function. You have an "edit post" function. You SHOULD have access to a spellchecking program of some sort. You have your own set of Mark-One Eyeballs that either God or a puddle of assorted proteins struck by lightning gave you. USE THEM.

This is not a chat room. Speed is not important here. Quality is. You know, "quality, not quantity". It takes very little time to, if not run what you write through a spellchecker, at least READ OVER IT before posting it. This is a very big pet peeve of mine, the "Well, I don't really care about the quality of what I write so much as how much I write" school of thought. Have some respect for your own work, otherwise nobody else is going to.

*Deep breath*

[Melkor]

Kai,

After reading Chapino's post, but prior to reading yours, I fealt as if I was in a warehouse filled with the cacaphony of thousands of chalkboards being scratched, and an equal number of kitchen forks being dragged across glass plates.
For a minute, I thought I needed therapy. I read your post and the stress was gone. The madness has passed. Thank you.

[Pyske]

I find love interests to be overly difficult to implement well. I would love to play in a game at some point that uses love interests well (actually builds a relationship, inserts complications other than "X has been kidnapped", etc.).

My only real experience with this has been in a Vampire LARP, where I was "complimented" at the end of the game having done a very good job at being a creepy stalker. I had mixed feelings about that compliment. :)

When I recently asked SJohn about this in chat, he commented that it was very similar to any other genre, in that there were certain genre conventions which could be applied as a framework to build from. Unfortunately, he did not get around to elaborating. SJohn: care to give it a go?

. . . . . . . -- Eric

PS -- For those who must insult Chapino, or give him grammar advice, or whatever, would you PLEASE do it by private message?

[Ian ORourke]

It all depends on what type of game you’re playing of course – every game can be spiced up by having love interests, but in some genres that is all they should be: ‘interests’. As an example, the delightful interplay between Han Solo and Princess Leia in ‘Empire’ is brilliant, but they do have a surface only relationship, a sort of ‘kiss under a hail of blaster shots’ type of affair. This is great for Star Wars and a lot of heroic play. No problem.

Then you get other games that need to go deeper to make them worthwhile. It could be Vampire or Unknown Armies, or one of many other games, the difference is some games/play styles demand that you drop the term love interest, and instead just have a character, fully fledged, that the player character just happens to be falling in love with – complete with all the complications this brings, both in terms of character psychology and emotion – not necessarily in terms of him/her getting kidnapped this week.

It takes a mature group though, and a need to almost divorce your game from mechanistic ‘flow diagram plotting’ and to a method of story construction where these relationships, and the players driving them, are the plot.

Of course, this is what I think, I’m sure just as many people think its bollocks :)

[Cam Banks]

I'd just like to point out that the plural of a word does not require an apostrophe. Even the plural of an acronym.

Therefore, the plural of RPG is not RPG's, but RPGs. The plural of PC is PCs. I know it can make some people's nerves shriek with the urge to put one in there, but do yourself a favour and leave it out.

Also, "it's" always means "it is". Except for the case of possessive pronouns, like "Bob's Hat", the apostrophe is almost always there because of a contraction. If you're talking about an unnamed thing and the hat that it owns, you wouldn't use "it's hat" because that means "it is hat". "Its hat" is correct.

RPG books are full of these errors, so it's no wonder many gamers continue to use them.

Cheers,
Cam

[Baumi]

Just look tomorrow to www.roleplayingtips.com , there will be an Editorial about Romance.

[Bahama'at]

Just look tomorrow to www.roleplayingtips.com , there will be an Editorial about exactly this problem.

Spelling and grammar of forum posters? :D


Nuthin' but love.

Tiama'at

[Baumi]

*gg* I edited my message just seconds after I postet it but it seems that seconds are too long for our time :D

[Wattsian]

I would think, after years online (as many of you have had), you'd be used to people who don't look over their posts. The "its/it's" and "to/too" switches are common problems. People KNOW the difference sometimes, but they still type the wrong one in. Yet those posts make sense and people respond to them and life goes on.

I vote for a moratorium on complaints about Chapino's spelling and grammar. Different people have eloquently explained the reasons for writing well, and Chapino has listened in an open-minded, good-natured way. Someone who doesn't spell well or write sophisticated sentences will be thought less of, but that's the nature of language usage.

Now let's get back to RPGs please.

brendan

[Corporate Dog]

I tend towards PBEM and online games (it's all I have time for these days), and only once has romance really come up (and I hesitate to even call it 'romance').

We had just started a D&D3E game on WebRPG. I was playing a male fighter, and another male player was playing a female elven whatever. I should note that this guy was in his early teens.

The game had each of our characters thrown into the same dire circumstances, with no previous background to share. From out of left field, the elven maiden starts coming on to my character like the alien-hybrid chick in Species. If there's not a battle going on, or some other emergency, this guy keeps mentioning that his character 'stares longingly' into my character's eyes, or 'licks her pouting lips' at my character. And then when it was time to camp for the night, his character made a point of 'snuggling close' to my character.

I guess it was a combination of things which made this a bad situation, and made me want to swear off romance in my games. First, his writing tended toward the atrocious side (insert Chapino joke here). Second, it leaned toward a 'Jr. High' concept of romance. Third, there was no context at all for his character's interest in mine! It was as if he thought, "I'm playing a female, which means I HAVE TO be a love interest." And finally, while for the sake of a game I can ignore the fact that a male character is playing a female character, the most I would want to pursue in terms of a 'romantic situation' is what someone else here has mentioned... a 'surface romance' ala Leia and Han in Empire. I suppose that goes for when I'm playing opposite a woman as well, but I'd probably be able to get over whatever minor hangups I have in that instance, and play something a little stronger.

Regards,
Corporate Dog

[Ian ORourke]

Funnily enough I have a major dilemma when it comes to this sort of stuff (whether a romantic relationship, or any 'deeper' relationship between two characters).

First, I don't enjoy a game unless it is essentially about character relationships. We may be saving the world, and performing all sorts of heroics, but these should be being done because personal relationships are driving your character to it. It's the usual narrative goal, the mechanics of the plot are more the background to the driving character dynamics - which are the real point.

Also love having personal relationships (for in game characters) manifest in the game, and I think they should.

The trouble is, they are a pain to play, and some of it is uncomfortable, but if they game didn't have it, I'd fall asleep.

Possibly, I am just a sucker for punishment :)

[David Goodner]

I've played in and run several games that involved love affairs between both players and NPCs. It works great if it works, and it falls pretty much totally flat if it doesn't work.

As a GM I have learned that there's absolutly no way to make a PC fall in love with an NPC - so I never even try. I don't plan on running love plots until the PCs have already fallen in love.

I can make NPCs do whatever I want, so I have run (and seen other GMs run) plots where a PC found himself in the unwanted position of being someone else's "true love."

As a Player, I really enjoy romantic plots. They add some depth to the rest of the story. Being in love makes you more vulnerable, and it lends a new dimension to your actions.

David G.

[Dr Rotwang!]

They go pretty well, when they go, which is fairly rarely. It really only started to happen since I started dating my fiancee; in her first D&D campaign, her main NPC developed a relationship with my PC. No one was surprised, mind you, when it was announced they were getting married.

Now, just a plain love interest, meaning one PC fancies another (or an NPC for that matter), can run pretty much the same way; it's an open door for witty banter, amusing situations, character development and the like. It's fun if you're into it. If you're GMing, and you want an NPC to fall for a PC, do it only if you know that said PC won't be personally uncomfortable with it!

I agree with those who, before me, have stated that it requires a mature group. It also helps if the two players whose characters are googly over each other remember that they're not the only ones playing, and that the other, non-kissy-facin' PCs wanna get some gametime of their own. In other words, be grown up about it and have fun.

And remember -- the way the romance is handled depends, like everything else in the game, upon the mood, setting and theme of the campaign. If I learned any one thing from White Wolf's Storyteller line (I learned two), it's to always remember Mood, Setting and Theme. It works in books, it works in movies, and it works on your dinner table.

-- R!

[Ian ORourke]

Originally posted by David Goodner
As a GM I have learned that there's absolutly no way to make a PC fall in love with an NPC - so I never even try. I don't plan on running love plots until the PCs have already fallen in love.

David G.

That is the single most important point I missed - a romance plot has to be player driven.

But an NPC may fall in love with a player character, and the story is that her love is not returned? True, and that is a valid dynamic, but it still puts the player in scenes that he will be uncomfortable playing - so you'll pull him into romance dialogue by default.

The only exception to the player driven rule is probably a humorous plot - the only example I can think of is the Luxwana Troy and Captain Picard example - not something I'd use - but everyone is different.

[Clark]

I played in a campaign once where a female PC spent the night with a male NPC, and over the next several weeks, we all wondered why she would suddenly get weepy for no apparent reason, and would throw up her breakfast every morning.

Duh.

It was the GM's idea - he apparently cleared it with the player first, and I suspect it was an excuse for him to use the tables from the AD&D Book of Sex, widely available on the Internet.

It was pretty funny, actually. The player thought it was hilarious, she played it to the hilt. The PC suddenly got REALLY protective of the NPC, abandoning good tactics to protect the father of her child. We confronted her about it, and she wigged out on my PC, pummeling my little elven thief to unconsciousness before the rest of the party could pull her away.

It worked because it was totally player driven - sure, it was the GM's idea, but he made sure the player bought into it before kicking off the subplot.

[Kevin Mowery]

Originally posted by David Goodner
As a GM I have learned that there's absolutly no way to make a PC fall in love with an NPC - so I never even try. I don't plan on running love plots until the PCs have already fallen in love.


I find that mentioning that the NPCs are hot and easy usually works well enough. Of course, "love" is a subjective term. With my regular group "I love her" usually means "I won't kill her unless I have to or I run out of other things to kill." :(

[NPC]

This is an extremely sticky subject for me, which might seem odd, since the games I run are so chockablock with as much genuine emotion as I can squeeze out of them.

Fortunately, I have an easy out. The only ongoing tabletop game I'm in right now is one on one, my girlfriend as player and myself as GM. The little wolf has repeatedly demanded that at some point in her character's life, she must be allowed to meet an eligible partner. Now, Scott is a haughty and capricious god, but he is also a god who does not wish to sleep alone on the couch, so obviously his goddess' character must receive the perceived boon of a male NPC just as clever, dangerous, gutsy, and stubborn as she is.

So I've decided to base him on the desert raider from *Crouching Tinger, Hidden Dragon* who steals away the young woman, not knowing that she has a bit of kung fu up her sleeve.

When it comes to LARP, I tend to play characters whose demeanors aren't very conducive to romance. It's not that I wouldn't want to give it a shot, it's just that too few people have the size, presence, and voice to play the imposing aristocratic bastard, so I usually end up plugging that gap. This does, however, allow me to experiment with other forms of in-character relationship, such as paternalistic love and frustration.

In general, I guess I would say that I am most comfortable with romantic tones in roleplaying when I'm with other married or strongly-bound couples rather than a group of singles. I wonder how others feel abotu that...

Cheers,

Scott L

[ChapinoMuse]

Hehe, Man that (insert Chapino Joke here) thing was hilarious, I loved it. But for the record I don't mind being insulted, I'm quite used to it if it's necessary advice or in fun like that one, which I say was damn good. As for love interest whenever I do any type of plot creation I usally fail at making love interests up to this point, cause till now I realy never had any expereince in the subject, probably I could do it better now that I know what love is, it's hard to make up expereince you can't relate to, and for a Pencil & Paper game you really need players who are open to getting bonded with a NPC and not just randomly killing all of them.

[Baumi]

I just wanted to say that the Artikel "Romance In Rpgs: 6 Tips" is now available on roleplayingtips.com.

Here is the Link to it: http://roleplayingtips.com/issue105.html

Have FUN!
Baumi

P.S.: I belive that there are more Artikels about Romance in earlier Issues...

[Bradford C. Walker]

Originally posted by ChapinoMuse
How does love interests usally play in your RPG?

*ahem* I'll give this one a shot.

Chapino, so far they've rarely done better than mediocre. The best examples I have stem from my waning Mage: The Ascension campaign; I will not delve into the details here. The most disappointing one at this time is in my current Feng Shui campaign, where the player of the Killer in the group spends more time doing things to mooks that make the Crocodile Hunter look sensible then he does minding his PC's affair with a long-term NPC.

As a player, I've done well enough when provided the opportunity; my last time playing D&D3e was such an experience, with the chief difficulty not that of the system or the context--Dumas would've been proud--but that of we participants. It was damned hard to play it properly when the GM and I were not on the same page. Before then, in the last round of WEG Star Wars, my PC's romances were less an outlet of dramatic passion and more of the ongoing situational comedy in the campaign.

As for what's coming, I haven't a bloody clue. I will know what I will know when I know it and no sooner shall I know it.

[Atom Man]

No one in any of my games has time for romance.

They are too busy bleeding, bashing or running like hell.

The closest thing we've had to romance is when the surly dwarf (you know the type) failed his DT check and barfed up on a female judge.

And that's not close at all, is it?

[Jackshadow]

I've played both swords and superhero genre games, and had a ton of fun with love interests in all of them....thanks to a GM who insisted we play it straight, not the 'hail of blasterfire" romance thing. It was tough watching my PC "partner" get her a** kicked and not jump to her rescue. Couple of times I was *cranked* when something happened to her....go figure.*LOL*

The best though is GMing for PCs who want to have romances.....they *know* what's going to happen...and yet still, they turn it over to you, and have the gall to act surprised when your Evil Baddie whacks someone with a killing blow.*G*

Bwahahaha.....

[EldritchHeart]

Originally posted by Ian ORourke

That is the single most important point I missed - a romance plot has to be player driven.

Exaclty, IMO. If the romance is going to involve the PC(s) pursuing someone else, said player must be willing to do so. If not, it wilts and dies.

In addition, if the game is to simulate the entire range of emotions, it must be taken into account that love is a part of it. Romance/love is fairly tricky in real life; to simulate it realistically in an RPG shouldn't be any different (IMO). If handled delicately I think it could be a powerful, motivative, and moving experience in a game (or short story or novel, for that matter).

[Meera Barry]

I did have an NPC seriously pursue a PC for a while...including in dreams. Helped that I had a pseudorelationship with the player at the time, but I would have pursued it nevertheless.

For the dynamic to work on a serious level, I find that you need to have a healthy GM-player relationship anyway. As a GM you have a lot of opportunities for abuse, especially in games that seem determined [oops, slipping into design opinion mode] to set the GM up as the PCs adversary. Heck, I've seen gaming groups break up over less!

Between players, well, I can't complain too much: my first Amber game had a relationship between two players, and, uh, it just happened to coincide with my relationship to the man who became my husband... [innocent whistle]

Otherwise, it's like anything else in a game. We tend to skip over PC bathroom breaks because, frankly, it's not worth rolling on the constipation chart (not even if you have a +2 fiber bonus.)

What I'd like to know more is where a love interest stops being a potential dependent (worth points) in a campaign, and when it becomes a strength (costs points).

[Boba Fett]

I always introduce a "love interest" into my games. It works when the players are buying it. It falls flat if they don't.

Something I've found more useful than introducing an incredibly beautiful character (which is usually the way such love interests are introduced):

Make the love interest NPC similar to one of the PCs, both in appearance and alignment (or personality/world view etc.)

[Harmony Kendall]

Nasty, scary things. Well worth avoiding, IMHO. I'll roleplay anything you like, but love interests would be incredibly difficult for me.

We tend to skip over PC bathroom breaks because, frankly, it's not worth rolling on the constipation chart (not even if you have a +2 fiber bonus.)

Ok, perhaps I wouldn't want to roleplay that either...

[Jackshadow]

Meera-

Never had the GM charge me points for having a "superpowered/swordslinging" paramour......but I paid, let me tell ya. The GM we played with didn't abuse the relationships...but he made it painfully apparent that since it was a long running campaign with recurring baddies, SOMEone would figure out who was who, and love interests make great revenge targets.

That said, I can remember scouring the rulebooks for something to make my movement increase, when she did the hero thing, and stepped in front of a killing blow for me....and I knew I could not get her to help in time. OMG, ouch. It was handled beautifully...but realistically. There was no "last minute save"....she knew what she was doing, and did it for love; which is in the best traditions of being a hero and rp games, IMHO.

JS