Hiiiiie YAH!

[Jon H]

:) ?:( ?:o ?:confused: ?:eek: ?!;)

[csaar]

very nice, it's like simon bisley on mescalin.
really amazing work!

C. Saar

[Jon H]

;) :)

EDIT: I was going to leave it at that, but some might consider it rude, so I will say a "thanks" in words.

Thanks Csaar, I really respect your work, so your appreciation meets a lot to me. Hope you're getting lots of work. Let us all know what your up to if you can. And post some!

Which would be better: to be Simon Bisley, or to be on mescalin? Collection of Lotus's? or the Vision?

[Noel Murphy]

:cool: :D :p
What about having his sister and being on mescalin?
What about being mescalin and appearing on Gladiators?
Reminds me of Horned God which is compliment enough.
:eek:

[Jon H]

Thanks Murph. I love Si Bizley's work, despite the fact he gets pretty run down these days. The Horned God was great, and I take that as a great compliment. The weird thing is, I used to try really hard to work like him (when I was 14) and doing this one it never crossed my mind. But it was obviously all stored away in there somewhere...:)

[chriss2d]

I feel kinda unqualified to critique this kind of piece, but a few comments. I don't know much about this kind of fantasy art. I'm a comicbook guy who's trying to be a fantasy artist. I know one thing though. The colors are absolutely beautiful! Very rich, but not too saturated. Very nicely done. And I can't take my eyes of the four armed lady. She's very well drawn and the colors again make her stick out really well. I don't know much, but I know what I like.
Beautiful!

[Matt Drake]

Originally posted by chriss2d
I feel kinda unqualified to critique this kind of piece, but a few comments. I don't know much about this kind of fantasy art. I'm a comicbook guy who's trying to be a fantasy artist. I know one thing though. The colors are absolutely beautiful! Very rich, but not too saturated. Very nicely done. And I can't take my eyes of the four armed lady. She's very well drawn and the colors again make her stick out really well. I don't know much, but I know what I like.
Beautiful!

Come on. You can't take your eyes off the 4-armed lady because she's got a killer rack in a tiny bikini.

Matt Drake
www.spectrepress.com

[Storn]

Jon, I'm going to go out on a limb and go against the grain.

I'm not wild about this piece. It feels more computery than some of your other stuff... too digital.

The woman leaping looks like she is sticking her katana in her armpit, not behind her back (the shading on armpit and sword is too close). Leaping-4-arms legs looked tucked in because there isn't quite enough room at the bottom of the "page". Sorta akward.

Dont' get me wrong, its good. But I've liked your other postings much more.

And lastly, it doesn't really matter what I think, does it? Just you, your editor and your public <g>. So take my musings with a HUGE grain of salt.

But someone said that I would make a tough A.D. Yes I would. That is how I was taught to expect. That is what I expect from the incredible talent on this board.

[Eric Lofgren]

Jon, I've been admiring this one for a while now. The color scheme is rich and beautiful and the piece is loaded with movement.
Perhaps the body attitude of the right hand figure may be a bit too contorted, but that is neither here nor there. Same with the arm pit piercing. Points to consider for next time. As it stands, this is top notch work. Is this for yourself or for a client?

Btw, Slaine and the Horned God was one of the first things I'd seen by Biz and it took me a week to get my eyesight to recover. What the hell has happened with him? I haven't seen anything of great value in a long time from him ever since he ponyed up with Eastman and HM.

Thanks for sharing,
Eric

[Steve T. Laws]

Well, I looked at it and it took me a while but i found a reference I could liken your picture to.

This seems like a fresca, something on the wall of an ancient so and so, made by a master, illustrating the legends of the local culture. Don't get me wrong, it has it's modern elements, but I would have to say that feel is there. . . . Well, at least it's there for me, I have been charged with being a pervert a time or two.

[Jon H]

Thanks for the interest, boys/men (pick your own label!:)):

Chris: I know how you feel - I often find it tough to come up with useful comments, other than "oh wow!". I appreciate your appreciation...!

Storn: I prefer it if you tell me it like it is. Much more useful to me. The piece is 100% digital. It's something I'm working on, as its soooo much faster ( literally two hours work in this piece.) and has soooo many variables compared to labourious trad painting. I'll never give up trad painting, but I like to have a few strings to the old bow. This avenue looks interesting at the minute. It might turn out to be a dead-end, but who knows?! I'll take another look at the sword/armpit conjunction! I'm glad to hear what you think, and no pinch of salt needed. Criticism where it's due is vital. Thanks for having the talent and interest to supply it!

Eric: Glad you mentioned movement, because usually I'm rubbish at movement. Just not something I seem to be able to do. This one was about having a go at getting a bit of life into my otherwise static pieces.
It was just for me. No approval sketches, no brief, just lots of fun with colour relationships! I gave myself the day off yesterday to do some much needed personal work and this was the result. I feel if I do too much commission stuff non stop, the source will dry up.

Last I heard Si Biz was collecting Lotus sports cars. Good luck to him.


I'm glad that you guys feel you can be honest with me - it IS much more use. Now, I have to qualify this as not declaring the Jon hunting season open. If I think your work stinks, I wont take kindly to tons and tons of criticism.

But the guys that have commented are welome to continue to do so. And anyone else, provided they post some of their own work too, so I can get a chance to give as good as I get! Is only fair!

Cheers!

Edited to say: Dirty Matt!;)

[Jon H]

Sorry Steve, I didn't respond to what you had to say - I think we were writing our replies at the same time, and I never saw yours before I posted mine.

Thanks, that was something of the feel I was thinking of -

I acually started out with a scan of a Japanese screen painting of a battle and worked on that. Absolutely nothing of that remains in the final image, but I used it to break up the space before I started, and to give me a hook for some colour. That's something I do more and more these days, as I find it a good way to get a mid tone to paint into. I think I'm too impatient to get rid of all the white space!

Cheers for all the feedback guys!

[Holy Bear]

Jeez, I missed this one??

Jon, that's really a nice style. Keep it up, I'd love to see what else you can do with this, especially if you 'loosen' it up a bit, as per Storn's comments.

Just a question...how much would a piece in this style for the cover of a book cost?

Not that I have the money to pay you, but I'm curious. ;)


Asbjørn

[Jon H]

Now, strictly speaking I only do business "off the boards". Just keeps things professional. But since this is a hypothetical enquiry, I'll give you a hypothetical answer.

This would be a wraparound due to format (which I was thinking about when I did it - a character on each side of the book) That ups the price a little. It is a technique I'm just warming up to, but your probably looking, roughly, towards $300 depending on the size of your operation. But all my rates are negotiable. Paying up front gets you a discount. Offering me more than one cover gets you a discount!

This particular piece would need some general tightening up to cut it as a cover. Another time I would layer-in a texture to break up the digital smoothness.

Thanks for the positive feedback. We could colaborate on a whole range of hypothetical books!

Cheers!

[Holy Bear]

Thanks Jon, for taking the time for a hypothetical answer.

Sorry to have taken up your time with hypothetical things. Didn't consider it when I wrote my post.

Asbjørn

[Jon H]

woah! Not a problem - sorry if I gave you the impression it was...

I was just messing around! No offense taken, I'm glad you're interested!:) :)

[Holy Bear]

Hey, no harm no foul. :)

I was just afraid there for a moment that I was a fanboy wasting your time.

It's all good then.

Asbjørn

[Misguided]

This is really really interesting.
It's hard to describe, but it kind of strikes me as something from Planescape meets Stephanie Law (both of those compliments, btw). Check out Stephanie's work here: http://misguidedgames.com/art_frame.htm or www.shadowscapes.com

[Jon H]

I'm flattered. Don't see the connection, but I am flattered!

Further ads for artists much better than myself need not be posted in this thread.;)

Thanks for the interest, Misguided!

(you all know I'm kidding around about the ads thing....)

[Misguided]

hey...I SAID it was hard to describe, didn't I? :D
Anyway, what is it with all you guys knockin yourselves around lately? You've got nothing to be ashamed of!

As for the connection, I think the picture has a mystical kind of quality it is hard to put your finger on. I feel the same way about Stephanie's work, which is why we hired her. The Planescape reference was more to the mood and color selection. Hope that helps.

Edit: No, "mystical" isn't right...."mythical" would be a better word to use.

[Noel Murphy]

I was looking at this picture again and I thought it reminded me more of Dermot Power this time. Still a compliment whichever way.

[Jon H]

AH, I see what you mean now, Misguided. I'm a bit to literal, with me artists eyes and all that. I tend to just see style rather than content. I'm with you now.

And I was genuinely flattered - Stephanie's work is really beautiful!
(So are Henson's space muppets, but in a different way!):)

Cheers boys!

Edited for CRAZY spelling.

[hive]

is it just me or does it seem like 90% of game artwork that's coming out now is digital produced? i was fearing the day that every niche of the RPG world was saturated into computers. <sigh>

Bury me under wacom tablets and USB scanners. Bury me with grayscale $15 half-column pics. Bury me under e-published d20 rules conversions for GURPS: Matrix....but please bury me with my traditionally painted covers done by the likes of Elmore, Easley, and Brom.



PS- I enjoy the pic you posted. I really do. But sometimes it's just hard seeing the next gen take the places already established.


-hive

__________________________________________________
"No. Fantasy art is not a valid Art Movement. Go sit down because you're dumb."

[Misguided]

Hive, this is just my opinion of course and I'm not an artist, but as a gamer and soon to be publisher, I don't believe the problem is digital art. The problem is art that looks digital. I mean art that immediately screams in your head "I'm 3D!". I believe that well done digital art can't be easily distinguished from the real thing, at least by the untrained eye. You as an artist might look at something and say "there's no way they did THAT with paint" or what have you, and that's ok. My feeling is that computers, and Bryce/zBrush/photoshop etc are simply tools, every bit as much as canvas and jesso. You can make garbage or a masterpiece with either.

[Noel Murphy]

I agree with that. Photoshop and graphics tablets are just tools like brushes and paint just without the mess. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing like the real thing, I love to paint but i rarely get the opportunity. I was taught at college buy one of the best 'old school' airbrush artists in the WORLD (no BS!). As soon as he used photoshop he never picked an airbrush up again. You can do all the same stuff and more on computer with less fuss and mess. And if anyone has used an airbrush they will know what I mean. So much ball-ache.
You can make a fully digital artwork but It's no less valid than acrylic on bristol board.

[hive]

I just think that digital art leads to dependancy. The more you use your little comp friend the more of a bond that becomes established and shortcuts crop up. You think to yourself, "WOW...i can crank this stuff out in 3 hours wherein it use to take 3 days in the meat world". But guess what? In the long run its going to run you into serious production problems.

You start belting out a staple amount of work. You get well-known and commissioned. You get the fame and the girl but your drawing skills get leeched. They dry up and collect dust the less frequently you actually use them. Soon everything you put out starts looking the same simply because your not growing anymore. Your stuff looks stagnant and you start even using filters so you can hurry up cover art to go watch BUFFY.

Next Gen artists...don't forget why you started doing this in the first place. You like to draw. The No. 2 pencil feels good in your hand. Ink lives in your veins. Don't become complacent with just doing one style or one medium.

-hive

____________________________________________________
"Save Complacency For Relationships"

[chriss2d]

For the longest time, I was anti-computer. I have always been old-school. I take pride not only in the printed image, but also the original artwork.
But I do disagree with you on one point. Yes it's true that some artists probably rely too much on computers to acheive the desired effect, but alot of us only use the computer as another tool to improve our work.
Fully digital art doesn't turn me on as much as the "real" thing, but I believe it has a place in the rpg world.
I understand the appeal of computers for artists. It's convenient, practical, cheaper in the long run and it's faster than traditional methods. And to be honest, it often looks better in print than traditional art does.
But, I don't feel it will ever replace traditional artwork. I don't think you can be a GOOD digital artist without alot of drawing skills. Most artists scan original work in and simply add touches to improve their work.
Like it or not....computers are here to stay. I've excepted it and now I'm trying to catch up. But, I'll never give up my #2 pencil

[Storn]

>>>I believe that well done digital art can't be easily distinguished from the real thing, at least by the untrained eye. You as an artist might look at something and say "there's no way they did THAT with paint" or what have you, and that's ok. My feeling is that computers, and Bryce/zBrush/photoshop etc are simply tools, every bit as much as canvas and jesso. You can make garbage or a masterpiece with either.



<<<

I'm not anti-computer. But I don't by the trend of trying to look non-digital. My question is this; why bother?

You don't do oil paint to look like watercolor. You don't do color pencil to look like guoache. Why strive for a "simulation" of a medium?

My point is that you can look digital...but there is good digital and bad digital. Just like any other medium. Of course, when I say "too digital"... I really should amend my words. What I mean is "too much reliance on digital tricks". Sublimate those tricks... or make them so obvious that they become part and parcel of illo.

But I do agree with the point that Chris makes. Without traditional foundation of being able to handle a pencil, brush, pen, anatomy, color, background etc.... your digital house has nothing to remain standing on.

[Misguided]

Storn I think we are probably after the same thing, but I am not as capable of expressing it as well as you are. I don't mean to say that digital work can't have its own unique style but....
The best example I can think of at the moment is poser. Poser may be a great tool, but sometimes I look at things and the first thing I think is "looks like they did it in Poser". This may be just my hangup, but I don't want the first thing I notice to be that something was looks like it was done with a computer. Not sure I'm making any sense at all.

[Noel Murphy]

I can agree and disagree with many points. The majority of my artwork is both traditional and digital. My main way of working is to draw the picture in pencil, often fully shaded so it's a piece that can stand on it's own so to speak. Then I scan it, alter anything that needs it and then colour etc. I love drawing, no question but I couldn't do what I do easily and quickly without the tool of my computer. Take my 'Hyper Killer', this is one of my fave pictures. The attached pic is the prelim sketch. Compare it to the final pic and you can see what I mean. http://www.noelmurphy.supanet.com/clowninc/hyper_killer.htm I don't have a finished pencil version to disc that is small enough to post to fully illustrate but you get the idea.
You still need to be able to draw whatever tool you use. I never even used a computer until about 4 or 5 years ago. I don't think I would be producing the stuff I am now if I wasn't.

[Noel Murphy]

Jon, is it me or do you have a habit of attracting these "extended discourses"?

[Kat]

Next Gen artists...don't forget why you started doing this in the first place. You like to draw. The No. 2 pencil feels good in your hand. Ink lives in your veins. Don't become complacent with just doing one style or one medium.

-hive

You know what guys? I think this is the problem I've been struggling with. I used to draw a lot back in high school, charcoal being my favorite medium. The texture of the paper with the varying lines, both delicate and bold, made for some really cool stuff. When painting, jesso provided the texture, and the different colors and paintstrokes created the depth and movement. While fun, I hated cleaning up afterwards.

When I discovered Photoshop, I thought endless worlds of possibilities were now open to me. I could do anything without fear of making mistakes, without making a mess, and I thought 'Hey! I could ditch traditional media altogether!'

That was 3 1/2 years ago.

After two day of posting on this board, listening to all the feedback and looking back in time, I can see for the first time just how badly my drawing skills have languished by switching completely to computer aided drawing. I also found, that certain effects that I wished to incorporate into my CG drawings, could only be attained with traditional media.

So much for ditching traditional media altogether eh?

If you wanna label me as that "Next Gen" artist you're talking about Hive, I am already beginning to see the folly of my ways. By the way Hive, AMAZING work. I now have your website bookmarked if you don't mind... I love the way you handle mixed media.

I would say to you Jon, that although you did a pretty fine job with your piece, you lost a lot of the textural beauty and depth evidenced in your other pieces. Don't do what I did and let those drawing skills dull as I unknowingly let mine. It's not worth it.

But I do agree with the point that Chris makes. Without traditional foundation of being able to handle a pencil, brush, pen, anatomy, color, background etc.... your digital house has nothing to remain standing on.

-Storn

I couldn't say it any better than that...

Kat

[Jon H]

Here follows a random list of thoughts on the thread thus far!:


Massive mistake to view digital medium as being seperate or opposed to trad medium.

If you want Brom covers you may have to start paying more for your books!

Every last piece of cover art in the last few years has at leat been laid out digitally, and probably cleaned up digitally.

I certainly agree that you need a firm foundation of skills, which shouldn't be allowed to slip, but I think the argument that they will do so if you use a computer "too much" is deeply anachronistic.

I think that Hive's early point about getting success and then letting things slip can equally apply to traditional media. However you work complacency is a constant threat. I see some of the big traditional names as being highly complacent, churning out the same old themes over and over - but that's what people pay them to do.

I posted the digital piece to see what people thought, not to say "I've thrown away my pencil"! As I mentioned in the first place, I would never give up trad painting. Its where I earn my income! I do think there's room for a little experimentation, and I'm happy to have the guts to show off some experimental work.

Noel: I'm glad I attract these protracted discourses! It's healthy!

There's a Chris Shy quote somewhere, the jist of which is "if you don't want to use a computer, fine - all the more work for me!"
...Not that I'm planning to go 100% digital.

I'm with Misguided. Poser is a very good example of how rubbish computers can be!

Noel's right - It's just another tool in the box. Using an airbrush=hard work. When I get mine out I spend all day at the sink washing the darn thing.
Airbrushes are a good comparison to computers in art - a lot of people see airbrush work as the end of painting, and a terrible thing all round. I don't like chrome robots, but I ocassionally get the airbrush out as another valuable tool.

EDit: just had a look at Hive's site - isn't nearly all the work there digital? There's also a lot of "Chris Shy/Ashley Wood/Dave Mckean style" (for want of a better phrase!) Weird.... I guess that means you're not anti-digital per say, you just want old school work on RPGs? Shame most publishers can't afford oil paintings to that standard...

Kat: - with 80 or so pencil/pen and ink drawings about to be started for a publisher I think I'll need to use the computer for a bit of variety to keep my sanity! Don't worry about me!;) I finally got to see your work this morning, and I'm mulling over what I think, so I will post over in your thread soon!

[Jon H]

Sorry, me again. Double posting! I don't know...

Anyway, this one has been floating round my head all day, so i thought I'd elaborate, and maybe clear up a few vague points from my previous garbled message!

I don't think I really understand your point, Hive. Everyone has got going on this one, but to take it back to the start:

Your work is really beautiful, and successful, and digital! So why would it be that you would not like digital work,as a generalisation, and warn against it's evils?

Have your skills diminished by using a computer ?(that's not a sarcastic question, I genuinely wonder if you think they have.)

It's not because you hate computers - and your work looks nothing like Elmore's, so what's the story? I'm really intrigued... If you were painting like a Flemish master and mixing all your own pigments and painting on oak panels I would get it.

Where did the getting fixed into a single style thing come from? It sounds like you mean someone in particular. It's not me, because you don't know my work that well...and even using the computer is a blow against complacency for me...It's not you, because you stress on your website that you work in many different styles...

Again, I'm intrigued.

I don't think there's really an old generation of Elmore, Easley, Brom, etc vs a new generation coming up behind them. Those guys haven't been that contemporary in RPGs for a long time now...(not to disrespect them) Plus the turn-over of cover artists in the whole industry is immense and ever changing.

I'm not trying to pick apart what you say, so much as get a handle on where you're coming from. Could you elaborate? I'm really interested to hear what someone with your experience has to say...

[Storn]

Let me reiterate. I'm not against the use of digital. Heck, on some of the grayscale stuff done for Hero 5th ed that I posted awhile back had digital effects.

And i agree with the statement that clean-up and layout are done on ALL covers these days.

AND, I actually think the combining of traditional and digital is really the place to work.

But, there is something so intrinsic of value of working on paper, canvas, board. I think it is much easier to find those "happy accidents" and learn from them, because, let's face it...paint, ink, charcoal... its messy stuff. But it is in that mess that great strides forward are made.

With computers, there are so many options. It is so easy to wipe out a layer, change a layer...that yes, the actual time to do a particular operation is blinding fast. But here is the paradigm... I know that I spend more time dithering about "HOW" i'm going to do something, than just doing it. So the time you save might be illusionary.

Also, artist tend to do better within limitations. It is experience that leads artists to limited palettes, the sublte ranges of gray etc. With a computer, it is all so easily at our fingertips.

But good god!!! Do NOT stop experimenting. Do NOT stop pushing the boundries with what digital can do. That is our quest. To create new shoulders upon the shoulders of giants that we stand on.

Just saw Jacob Lawrence exhibit at the Detroit Institute of Art (our museum). A guy who grew up in Harlem painting on brown paper grocery bags with poster paints. His entire 65 year career, he used simple materials. And created some of the most astounding stuff. Totally different than me...but just dynamite, sophisticated, paintings. He was really into tools... and some of his brushes and paints were on exhibit from his studio. They had such an aura of sweetness, happiness and creative power. And the paints and brushes? I have many of the same ones.

I have a love for the craft of good pen or brush. I don't get that same hard-to-describe awe and love for my computer screen, monitor, keyboard.

There is a strength in such simplicity.

>>There's a Chris Shy quote somewhere, the jist of which is "if you don't want to use a computer, fine - all the more work for me!"
<<<

Yeah, and I think Shy's work suffers sometimes for being too flip...too photo montagey. Other times, he is dynamite.

[Jon H]

Duh!(that's aimed at me by the way!)

I think maybe everyone is saying the same thing really. Too much of any single thing is bad for your work.

I for one would never stop messing around with pencils and paper. To make most of my digital work I start with some paper and a load of mucky filler and make a texture to scan! The computer can't seem to do that on its own!

I don't think using the computer even upto 50% of the time is going to make my pencil skills attrophy to a great degree. I like drawing too much. I think we're discussing some hypothetical, easily-lead artist, which I would hazard a guess that none of us are. Too bloody stubborn to have got even this tiny distance up the ladder!

[jeshannon]

Hey everyone !! been lurking these forums for ages now, and figured I would actually say something for once.

Personally I loved the pic Jon its got great movement and Character, as for the discusion about digital art, I personally have never used a pen brush or pencil in my life all i know is photoshop and a mouse, perhaps i would benifit greatly by trying traditional media to improve my digital work, but then again i think that at the end of the day the results of either traditional or digital art depends on the time skill and patience the artist has put in.

Also would just like to say Hi to everyone and that i am very happy to be part of these forums.. Cheers !!http://jeshannon.epilogue.net

[Eric Lofgren]

No matter what the medium, the value of what an artist creates is in the result. I've often associated the computer with the airbrush myself. At the turn of the century, the airbrush was the devils tool. It would dehumanize art and sanitize the creation process, creating reems of cloned images and cloned "airbrushers" without heart, value or distinguishable emotional content. Quite frankly, it never happened, our fears never played out. We see breathtaking images and vistas that can only be created with the use of an airbrush, things otherwise left unformed had the creative drive not been allowed to grow and foster and evolve. Sometimes this evolution requires new and better tools to experiment with. Back then they had the airbrush, today, we have in our midst the airbrush's bastard cousin, the godfather of all devil's tools, the computer. Well, try as we might, I don't imagine it's going away to quickly. But perhaps we can bear witness to a new evolution in creation and thought here in our own flegling century. I guess what I'm leading up to here is that it's not the tool that needs to be feared, it's the user, we need to take control of the computer and use it, but not to the extent that we lose sight of our own personal integrity. Until the thought process and wonder of artistic vision and imagination are computerized, I think we'll be fine.

Thanks for listening, and please keep up the good work Jon, regardless of the medium.
Eric

[Jon H]

Thanks Eric - that sounded really heartfelt, and I appreciate that.

I must admit to feeling a little caught in the crossfire, (only a little -its a good discussion) of a debate that doesn't really concern me. Just doing what I do, you know?

Edit:
Hi to John! I've seen your work before, somewhere. I expect you can bring in ANOTHER new angle. Hooray! Diversity rocks! Nice work by the way. I like the "on-going process" quote too. Know the feeling!

[Noel Murphy]

At the risk of rubbing Hive up the wrong way, and it isn't my intention because I like your stuff (I was asked to reveiw the beta of your site by Jon Wilson) but check out Jes Shannon's stuff on epilogue and draw your own conclusion. This is 100% mouse powered art.

[Misguided]

John, you dog! Lurking around here without telling me! :D
Everyone, I'm delighted to introduce John Shannon, one of the simply marvelous artists who has given heart and soul to help make Children of the Sun into the beautiful piece of work that it is turning into. I encourage all of you to go look at John's work. He has an amazing sense of color. The most remarkable thing about John is that he hasn't been doing this very long. As good as he is, he can be better, I'm already seeing it. :P

Originally posted by jeshannon
Hey everyone !! been lurking these forums for ages now, and figured I would actually say something for once.

Personally I loved the pic Jon its got great movement and Character, as for the discusion about digital art, I personally have never used a pen brush or pencil in my life all i know is photoshop and a mouse, perhaps i would benifit greatly by trying traditional media to improve my digital work, but then again i think that at the end of the day the results of either traditional or digital art depends on the time skill and patience the artist has put in.

Also would just like to say Hi to everyone and that i am very happy to be part of these forums.. Cheers !!http://jeshannon.epilogue.net

[hive]

such a doomsayer. anyone that has gone to my site and has heard me advocate against digital art is probably scratching their head right now. 75% of the work posted is digital or at least looks digital. For one big reason: That's what game companies want right now. It's in demand plain and simple. And anyone that assembles an industry portfolio knows that you NEED to showcase what's popular as well as up-and-coming.

Now i don't do 100% digital. i can't work in a vacuum. The process that i go through to get work done is to draw/ink/paint the core elements so that each part gets a certain amout of devoted time. After scanning them in, i assemble them into the concieved comp that i penciled out...then mesh them together as a whole. Its digital detailing & comp allowing you to mix mediums under one roof.

Reasons why i like it:

It allows a different pace of making pieces. You can spend as little or as much as you want on it.

Since its a digital process rather than a method you still have elements of inkwork/brushstrokes/mistakes cropping up.

It's indemand and accepted in the field as pop art right now.


Reasons why i don't like it:

Its a different pace of making "pics". People can spend as little or as much time as they want on it.

Some people skip over the process part and make it a method of piece creation meaning NO elements of beautiful mistakes cropping up Instead they create NEW elements of mistakes like Lens Flares and Fire Filters.

It's pop art right now. That means its a dead end.


Ask me why i do digital stuff...well...it pays and its a job. I'm just an illustrator...i illustrate other peoples' ideas for them. I'm not an artist and don't claim such. I'm a fanboy of anyone else's work but my own.

Ask me why i hate digital stuff...it's accepted right now as valid art and i have a fear that the market will get bloated off of it then move on to the next craze. I still remember meeting up with an Art Director from TSR (before the buyout) a couple of years ago with a portfolio full of digital work. He said that it was never going to take off because people like paintings too much. I told him that the comics community has already accepted it and he countered with "Well...that's the comic community". I just started laughing.

The RPG community never took Sword & Sorcery stuff from pulp comics. They never took Sequential art or Sandman-esque covers. Their not making new lines devoted to American Manga.

Riiiiiight.



-hive
____________________________________________________
"i shot andy warhol. He was the Art Director i was talking about".

[jeshannon]

Hey Lewis !!! you caught me lurking .. I been comming to these forums for about 7 months now, it was Matt Drake who used to be Art Director for rpgaction that suggested i visit here, cant thank that man enough for giving me some damn good advice..
Thanks to Lewis as well for hiring me !!! YOUR THE MAN !!! great compliments lewis I'm not worthy...... cant wait to see Children Of The Sun, its gonna kick ass..

Hey Jon I think we are from the same part of England..I am from Yorkshire aswell... checked out your web site damn good stuff there pal...great to be here and hope I will learn alot from you guys/gals..http://jeshannon.epilogue.net

[Misguided]

It is true that I specifically went out looking for people to do digital artwork for Children of the Sun, but that had more to do with the look that we wanted and some things we wanted to try that we never got around to because of the poor health of Jac Grenfell, our graphic designer. We had actually planned to have artists paint digital images into prerendered 3d scenes, but didn't get the chance to try this out.

That having been said. Stephanie Law and I crossed a wire somewhere early on, and right about the time she was starting to work on the pieces we commissioned, I found out that she was, in fact, doing watercolor. Didn't bother me at all. I think it is better for the artist because they have an original to sell.

One advantage I will mention in regard to digital art is that mistakes can be fixed more easily, at least in some cases. I don't mean errors made by the artist, but miscommunications between artist and publisher. I'm still new at this, and I can't always envision things properly from a sketch. It has happened where I approved a sketch, then it didn't turn out like I expected. In some cases, this was entirely my fault, either I missed something or forgot it. But with the digital medium, this can make it easier to fix (this is speculation, i'f I'm wrong, let me know). Steve Hamaker is doing maps for us and we had some difficulty getting one small area just right. While he ddoes the initial painting in watercolors, he is able to make changes digitally, which I was grateful for.

[Eric Lofgren]

Hey John, welcome, you should start your own thread, so that you don't get lost amongst this one:) I recall seeing your work in Elfwood last year. It was a pleasure to view then and even more so now. Very nice work.

More on digital thought; for me personally, the finished product lacks the tangiblity that the traditional media share. There is absolutely nothing in the world like standing within touching distance of a Rembrandt or a Van Gogh. Just to see the light reflect off the brush strokes layed down so long ago by the gods of painting is a thrill beyond compare. The human response of wanting to touch and feel is very compelling and rightly so given the nature of the experience, something cg work will never achieve. This is an experience I've had myself, my one wish, though, is that I could include an original Frazetta (the Death Dealer and/or The Silver Warrior immediately come to mind) in that list. In all fairness, I've seen digital work that makes me wish that it were "real" and not residing in a hard drive somewhere suseptible to the dangers that only technology can dish out.

[Jon H]

The immediacy of real, physical work is a great asset.

Once I was looking round the Royal Academy show of one of my favourite painters, Jasper Johns. For those that don't know, he paints/painted a lot of flags and targets. Anyway, I'm stood there admiring one of his target paintings, I hear the sound of running feet and this little girl, must have been three or four, comes hurtling past me, runs up to the painting and bangs both her hands really hard on it, right in the middle of the target.

The guards weren't happy, but I think Jasper Johns would have been!

[Eric Lofgren]

Jon, one more thought on art; one of the primary functions of art, regardless of the form it takes, is to stimulate response. I think your piece "Dance" has definitely qualified for that, when considering the ammount of "positive" energy layed out in this thread. If I could get that much respose time to anything of mine (re:45 replies/ 433 views) I would be happy. Well done I say. I can only imagine what your next post will produce.

Eric

[Jon H]

You're right as ever, Eric. Thanks mate. ;)

I think the appearance of a couple of new artists to the forum probably bumped up the figures. It was a cool discussion though. Who knew that we all had so much to say about digital media? Never came up before!

Edit:

I want to post what I'm upto at the minute, but I aint allowed. Oh well...maybe once its out.;)

[Storn]

Originally posted by Jon H
The immediacy of real, physical work is a great asset.

Once I was looking round the Royal Academy show of one of my favourite painters, Jasper Johns. For those that don't know, he paints/painted a lot of flags and targets. Anyway, I'm stood there admiring one of his target paintings, I hear the sound of running feet and this little girl, must have been three or four, comes hurtling past me, runs up to the painting and bangs both her hands really hard on it, right in the middle of the target.

The guards weren't happy, but I think Jasper Johns would have been!

What a great story! I love it.

[Jon H]

Just to get my facts straight it happened at a Pop Art show at the Tate. Warhol's work looked really old and battered.