[Wild Arms 4] Okay, I officially love this game.

[David J Prokopetz]

Well, the phrasing of the dialogue is a bit awkward, but aside from the single glaring typo in name of the protagonist's first spell (referenced elsewhere), there don't seem to be any real issues with the translation. All in all, a decent localisation.

This is not what I'm here to talk about.

I could go on about the combat system, the story, and so forth, but at this moment in time, none of that matters.

What matters is that I just fought a tank on a train.

Yes, you heard right.

A tank.

On a train.

And... when I beat the tank, a man with a jet pack showed up and cut the train car in half with a chainsaw.

I love this game. :D

[NotMousse]

::facepalms::

[David J Prokopetz]

::facepalms::*raised eyebrow*

[Ratoslov]

We've got TANKS on a motherfucking TRAIN!{/meme}

But seriously, does it wind up doing anything different from the usual Japanese console RPG formula?

[AWOL Joe]

We've got TANKS on a motherfucking TRAIN!{/meme}


I'd much rather see Tanks on a Train than that other movie.

-AWOL Joe

[David J Prokopetz]

But seriously, does it wind up doing anything different from the usual Japanese console RPG formula?Depends on how you define "formula". If you mean "Chosen One kid has largely linear adventure while bad guys inexplicably send powerful henchman to fight him one at a time rather than all at once, interspersed with random crate-and-button puzzles", then no, it doesn't really deviate.

(Tho' the characters do display a certain awareness of genre - i.e., "So explain to me why we're going after this kid one at a time again?", "You'd think having to solve a puzzle to get to the bathroom would be inconvenient for the people who built this place...", and so forth.)

The combat system is rather nifty, tho'. It takes place on a hex grid with an explicitly defined turn order and very little randomness in the resolution, so there's the possibility for a little bit of tactical gameplay. That, and the non-boss encounters aren't always trivial; since you fully recover your hit points after every battle, the designers haven't been at all shy about including random enemies who can one-shot the entire party if you're not careful.

(You can also turn off random encounters for each area after playing through it once, if that's your thing.)

What else... oh, yeah: there's effectively only ten character levels. Sure, you can level up from 1-100, like usual, but all that does is give you points to spend on various special abilities, including "Increase Class Level", of which only ten are available. This is the only way to increase your statistics. The end result is that your stats at the end of the game will be largely comparable to your stats at the beginning - there's no massive power bloat. Generally, levelling up only gives you more options, not necessarily more powerful options.

[NotMousse]

*raised eyebrow*
Sounds like a cross between Bond, standard pulp, and DBZ levels of sense...

And I almost liked WA, before the sudden detour from plot to 'and we're walking...'

[David J Prokopetz]

Sounds like a cross between Bond, standard pulp, and DBZ levels of sense...You know, the protagonist does comment on how little sense that particular plot development makes; I believe "ridiculous" is the operative word.

(He doesn't exactly break the fourth wall - the "ridiculous" comment is in response to aforesaid jetpack-dude bragging about the features of his "anti-tank chainsaw". But it comes off as self-referential anyway.)

And I almost liked WA, before the sudden detour from plot to 'and we're walking...'I'll admit that the earlier games in the series did have a tendency to leave you with no idea of where to go or what to do next. Usually you were meant to follow up on a throw-away comment by a minor NPC you may not even have talked to.

[lordcomte]

Well after plowing through both shadow hearts, SMT:Nocturn, and Digital Devil Saga is wrapping itself up, I think I can use some fun. And you know what, anti tank chainsaws sound like fun.

[Voidnaut]

WA4 is fun, but it makes me miss WA3 (which isn't such a bad thing, there's nothing wrong with my copy and it's sitting right there). The heroes of WA3 (Virginia and Clive in particular) are very dear to my heart. In WA4 I'm finding the villains much more interesting.

-Voidnaut

[NotMousse]

I'll say that your expression of the mechanics behind WA4 sound interesting enough to give it a shot, but anti-tank chainsaws?

Then again I was one of maybe a dozen people that actually liked the Mega Man Legends series (including the Misadventures of Tron Bonne).

[David J Prokopetz]

I'll say that your expression of the mechanics behind WA4 sound interesting enough to give it a shot, but anti-tank chainsaws?Well, more like "chainsaw" - singular. There's only one, and you get to make the guy who's wielding it blow up rather spectacularly, so it all balances out. :D

WA4 is fun, but it makes me miss WA3 (which isn't such a bad thing, there's nothing wrong with my copy and it's sitting right there). The heroes of WA3 (Virginia and Clive in particular) are very dear to my heart. In WA4 I'm finding the villains much more interesting.Then you'll be glad to know that one of them is actually playable, albeit temporarily. I shan't say who, though you can probably guess.

[Juriel]

Just started playing this, since it was only recently released in Europe.

The game's fun, but what I mistook at first for it being terribly easy, is just a case of it heavily emphasizing offense over defense - who acts first gets the first kills in. I didn't buy any new weapons or armor for the first twenty hours, and the game still felt like it wasn't really even trying. After I bought some new armor, and found weapons, I realized that the armor didn't change the amount of received damage all that much, while the attack damage took a HUGE leap forwards. It's a bit of a weird design decision to make, and it doesn't seem to be getting any better as the game goes on.

I do miss parts of Wild Arms 3. This game seems horribly single-minded in where you can go out in the wilderness (no exploration at all), and most dungeons and maps are just empty screens that you run through while waiting for the next cutscene. No puzzles so far, no challenging fights, nothing...

I've liked some of the things they've done in the cutscenes (like what was said in the first post), which is why I'm continuing giving it a chance.

[NotMousse]

Oh! Only one anti-tank chainsaw...

...

...

Nope, doesn't make a lick of difference to me.

[David J Prokopetz]

Oh! Only one anti-tank chainsaw...

...

...

Nope, doesn't make a lick of difference to me.You'd be overjoyed of someone came out with a CRPG about being a plumber or a tax accountant, wouldn't you? :p

(For gods' sakes, man, you came back after an entire year simply to reiterate your original threadcrap? That's downright egregious - I'm half-tempted to report it just to see what would happen.)

[Pyrephox]

I liked it, but there's a part that gets VERY FRUSTRATING later on...

When you're infiltrating the main battleship and have to slide through all these rotating lasers. I have no freaking reflexes. I cannot get past the last laser thing. Just can't. It makes me want to bite things.

[David J Prokopetz]

When you're infiltrating the main battleship and have to slide through all these rotating lasers. I have no freaking reflexes. I cannot get past the last laser thing. Just can't. It makes me want to bite things. Can't you just use the Accelerator in that section?

[Voidnaut]

Can't you just use the Accelerator in that section?

Yep.

-Voidnaut

[Pyrephox]

Even with it, I still fail.

You have no idea how bad my reflexes actually /are/. :D

[David J Prokopetz]

Even with it, I still fail.

You have no idea how bad my reflexes actually /are/. :DOkay, I just reviewed the section in question, and I have to say: if you're approaching it as a test of reflexes, you've got it all wrong. Those lasers move in an extremely predictable pattern, and there are several places along the way where you can stop and let your Accelerator recharge. Just fire off the Accelerator, then stand there and watch the lasers while they're slowed down until you get the timing figured out. Take as long to observe as you like - the game's not rushing you.

(Give you a hint: some of the rotating grids are off centre, so that the gap that opens up on the left-hand size of the rotation is larger than the gap on the right, or vice versa. Watch the grid in question go through three or four complete rotations before proceeding - you should be able to see which side is easier.)

[Pyrephox]

Yes, I know. I've sat and watched the damned thing go around and around for twenty minutes at a stretch. I know exactly the gap which is the 'right' one to go through, and exactly the time at which it is easiest to go through because it's the largest.

And I still fail. Over and over and over and over again. My spacial perception is hideously low, and my sense of timing is bad. At this point, that section has far surpassed 'challenge' and ended up as 'frustrating and unfun', which makes me glad I bought the game used, since I shut it off and haven't turned it on since then. Largely, I admit, because the save point is /way/ back there, past a whole bunch of annoying platform jumping puzzles that took me forever to beat the first time.

An RPG really should not, IMO, have any sort of platforming or trigger-finger elements, but I know that's where things are headed, so I just sort of shrug, play the fun parts, and then move on to another game when I get to the point where the escalation of 'challenge' moves beyond my ability.

[David J Prokopetz]

An RPG really should not, IMO, have any sort of platforming or trigger-finger elementsPlenty of CRPGs have combat systems with timing-based elements, not just minigames. This statement excludes perhaps three-quarters of the genre.

[Pyrephox]

Plenty of CRPGs have combat systems with timing-based elements, not just minigames. This statement excludes perhaps three-quarters of the genre.

I know. Believe me, I know. It's why my RPG library is so very, very small. Something you can put on 'auto' isn't all that bad (such as FFXII for a lot of stuff), but anything like Zelda or other 'action-RPGs', I can't play well once it moves from the tutorial areas to the serious ones. Luckily, I really enjoy watching /other/ people play those games, so I have some that I bought cheap just on the off chance I can persuade other people to play through while I watch.

I admit, my ideal game is an adventure game where /everything/ is point and click and dialog, and all the challenge is mental and social.

That said, however, WA4 /is/ a very fun game. I love the combat system, and I like most of the characters (as always, the main character and the girl love interest are pretty bland) on both sides. There are nice twists and turns, good character development, and the world is one I'd love to see made into a tabletop setting.

[David J Prokopetz]

I know. Believe me, I know. It's why my RPG library is so very, very small. Something you can put on 'auto' isn't all that bad (such as FFXII for a lot of stuff), but anything like Zelda or other 'action-RPGs', I can't play well once it moves from the tutorial areas to the serious ones. Luckily, I really enjoy watching /other/ people play those games, so I have some that I bought cheap just on the off chance I can persuade other people to play through while I watch.Out of curiosity, do you drive? I don't mean this as a snark, but as an observation: most of these games don't place any demands upon your timing, coordination, or spatial awareness that operating a motor vehicle wouldn't. The only guy I know who honestly can't do basic platforming to save his life also can't seem to pass a driver's exam.

[NotMousse]

You'd be overjoyed of someone came out with a CRPG about being a plumper or a tax accountant, wouldn't you? :p

(For gods' sakes, man, you came back after an entire year simply to reiterate your original threadcrap? That's downright egregious - I'm half-tempted to report it just to see what would happen.)
A plumper? WTF is a plumper?

BTW it's not even been 11 months yet.

[Pyrephox]

Out of curiosity, do you drive? I don't mean this as a snark, but as an observation: most of these games don't place any demands upon your timing, coordination, or spatial awareness that operating a motor vehicle wouldn't. The only guy I know who honestly can't do basic platforming to save his life also can't seem to pass a driver's exam.

I drive and drive well (never had a ticket).

I don't know why I can't do it on the video screen. I can play Operation without a lot of difficulty, I can play Jenga. But flatten it to 2D, and whatever coordination I have evaporates. And, of course, I get frustrated, which doesn't improve my performance.

Also, it wouldn't surprise me if part of it was just that I view such sequences as a chore, and not a fun thing. It's something that I suffer through in order to get to the next part of the story, or next cool fight or bit of interaction between the characters. For me, those types of things in RPGs are like putting speed bumps on a racetrack; not only unnecessary but actively against my idea of fun. So I'm sure that doesn't help me to do them. :)

[David J Prokopetz]

A plumper? WTF is a plumper?A typo - I meant "plumber".

[Valmont]

Just picked this up because I saw it for cheap, and having just beated FFXII, wanted to play something new. I'm rather enjoying the humor to the game, and the combat engine. And the jumping puzzles don't completely suck, which is nice.

[Unseenlibrarian]

BTW it's not even been 11 months yet.

I'm not sure that changes his point at all.

In fact, it almost certainly doesn't.

[NotMousse]

I'm not sure that changes his point at all.

In fact, it almost certainly doesn't.
The funny thing about it all being that while it sounds ridiculous I own it and will be playing it once I get a few other RPGs out of the way.

[Jay]

A plumper? WTF is a plumper?

If you have to ask, you don't want to know. :)

[Loki Dodges-Their-Claws]

Just picked this up because I saw it for cheap, and having just beated FFXII, wanted to play something new. I'm rather enjoying the humor to the game, and the combat engine. And the jumping puzzles don't completely suck, which is nice.

Maybe they don't suck for you. :p At the moment, I am stuck on one of those damn things. It's been awhile (I quit in disgust, and my TV's picture tube recently gave up the ghost), so I don't remember exactly where I am, but I'm somewhere in the first third of the game. I'm going up a tower, there are two routes, one was more puzzle-like, the other more reflexes. I finished the puzzle one but the reflex one is killing me here - I have to reach the top of this big room, but the blocks keep vanishing out from under me. After looking at this, I'm thinking I probably need to use the Accelerator (or whatever it's called - I like to think of it as my Gold Watch - from McDonald's The Girl, the Gold Watch and Everything). Any tips would be appreciated here, though, since my reflexes aren't so good either. Better yet, if you could tell me that since I finished the one I don't have to do the other to advance in the story, I would be ecstatic.

Apart from things that piss me off like the above, I am enjoying the game and the storyline, though 80% of the time I don't seem to end battles in the space that gives me the goodies. Stealing doesn't work very well, either. :( Phooey.

Oddly enough, I have all the Wild Arms games, including the remake of the first and haven't beaten any of them yet. Not in much of a hurry to do so, either. [shrug] Go figure.

[Juriel]

Any tips would be appreciated here
Use the Accelerator. Profit.

[Valmont]

Use the Accelerator. Profit.Pretty much. I haven't found a jumping puzzle in this game that the accelerator didn't make unbelievably easy.

[David J Prokopetz]

Pretty much. I haven't found a jumping puzzle in this game that the accelerator didn't make unbelievably easy.Most of the jumping/timing puzzles in the game seem to be present simply to provide an opportunity to show off how badass the protagonist is.

"Hmmm... twirling blades of death moving too fast for the eye to follow?"

*blip*

"Doop-de-doo..."

(In the odd place, it even provides a rationale for why there are puzzles in the first place - you're exploiting patterns and holes in defences that are too quick for a normal human even to perceive. Of course, they only take the premise halfway, as there are also some obviously contrived puzzles, but it's a nice touch wherever they made the effort.)