Interesting.

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Post originally by rowport at 2004-01-02 13:00:10
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"I think the point where the Matrix films lost a lot of people was where it became too much work. There are so many levels to the film that simply are not easy to access. Gnostic mysticism, Christian belief structures, philosophies, and even comic book mythology. If you happen to be crazy like the Wachowski's are and actually know most of this already, or are at least familiar with it, then maybe it isn't so much of a stretch.

<snip>
A lot of RPGs have simply lost it for me recently as well. Your mileage may vary, but the idea that you need to spend several hours balancing the cost of all of the elements that you want in a character in a complex numerical model that requires an encyclopedia-sized reference has really lost a lot of it's luster. Usually I prefer my entertainments to not require so much study. If I really get adventurous I try and balance my checkbook. I am not sitting around the house working out the probability models for a working exoskeleton, really. "

I found your article interesting. I agree with your points above, and with that context could understand how you might conclude that a simplified game system might be the right path to follow. But, as a counterpoint, the complexity and multiple layers- along with pop culture references- are for my what defined the Matrix films, and what I liked most about them (well, OK, second-most after the SFX). Similarly, I really enjoy the crunch in RPGs. Playing with character construction options out-of-game is nearly as much fun for me as the game itself, both in exercises of imagination conceptualizing those characters as well as plain ol' mathematical minmaxing for its own sake. Rules-light systems just leave me wondering exactly what the limits of characters abilities are, and worse, how they compare to other characters in the game. For me, character "schticks" are a very important game element for both storytelling and balance- having loose definitions of character abilities make balancing those abilities very difficult.

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Post originally by Ross Winn at 2004-01-02 16:47:56
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interesting that you bring up schticks, which are in HKAT. I like shticks. Balance is an issue, but I think it was and always will be no matter what game we use. I have spent hours building starships, mecha, and guns for different games. I like that part of it too. However for Wuxia, and for cinematic games, I do think simpler is better. Thanks for reading, come back again soon.

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Post originally by SteelCaress at 2004-01-02 19:09:43
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I think that a rules-light system could address those issues, like what the limits are and how the characters stack up to in-game and fictional and real characters. It can, but very often doesn't.

Me, I agree with the author. Crunch is not interesting to me. It's a distraction, a once necessary evil. I want guidelines as to how to design a character, and then be able scribble a few keywords down which then become my character. That kind of system is more interesting to me than trying to figure out exactly what an "18" stat means outside of that game. Or what AC Bruce Lee might have. Abstraction is necessary for simulation, IMHO, but when examined closely a lot of it just looks silly.

Donut Lover (5), Crack Shot (2), Legal Authority (Sheriff)(3) is more meaningful to me than 15th level God-Munchkin-of-the-Universe.

I mean, play how you want, but this kind of stuff is what shapes my preferences.

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Post originally by UrbanSketch at 2004-01-16 14:55:33
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Then you'd love Savage Worlds, Steel.

You could very easily create a character from three key words in nearly any genre you desire. Once you're familiar with the system (30 minutes at most, a few sessions for the nuance), it'll take you around 10 minutes for complete chargen.

And SW gives you this simplicity while still delivering a satisfying level of detail to combat and character personality.

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Post originally by rowport at 2004-01-16 16:52:07
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Steel-

Thanks for the feedback!

"Donut Lover (5), Crack Shot (2), Legal Authority (Sheriff)(3) is more meaningful to me than 15th level God-Munchkin-of-the-Universe. "

Ha! I think this is great! I understand your example entirely. But, I feel EXACTLY the opposite. I want to know how many donuts that Sheriff eats, how fast, and what type. I want to know what he uses to shoot, how much it hurts, and how far. I want to know the limits of his jurisdiction, and how he feels about those limits, and indeed his role within the entire judicial system. Of course, I might have my own ideas about the right answers to all those questions but would rather have it structured within the context of a detailed rules-set so that my answers are consistent with everybody else playing the game with me.

I am struck by how much your example description actually looks like a Chill character... when I read that RPG, I loved the setting and background but absolutely could not stand the lack of detail (i.e. crunch). I kept asking myself, exactly what does this mean??

I think at the end of it, it is just a personal preference. Still, thanks for sharing- I can better understand why somebody might feel differently than I do about this!