RPGnet Columns
01-16-2004, 04:02 AM
Post originally by SteelCaress at 2004-01-16 03:02:47
Converted from Phorums BB System
It sounds like you've fallen into the logical trap "People bash something I like cuz it's number one and it's kewl to bash anything popular." Of all the reasons listed, you forgot a possibility that anyone's had a miserable time wrangling with the system.
Ultimately D&D and D20 help keep the hobby alive even as they seek to strangle it with homogenous junk. D20 helps keep some people in business, and we all owe a debt to the original D&D for inventing the hobby. That's about where my respect ends.
We've all heard and read about it before, in a hundred different ways, in a thousand different forums. I don't like D20. Why? Ask me about the hours-long rules calls that I nap through. Never even happened with something as crunchy as Rolemaster or Champions.
Is it cross-genre? Well, yes and no. Yes, because the core is there, but the individual feats change. I don't like feats, because they (A)aren't applicable at this time, (B) aren't conceptual for my character, and (C) either don't interest me and/or I have to learn all new ones each time, despite the fact that we're supposedly playing the same game system. I've seen some of the horrid attempts at supergaming. I saw one much-lauded game where a "Speedster" has "Streetwise" as a class skill. Uh...yeah.
I don't like that it seems to take seasoned players hours to put down numbers on a sheet. I want a character, not a spreadsheet.
I don't like the marketing ploy that is 3.5, and a great many of the changes I didn't like anyway, being familiar with the 3.0 rules. A lot of the changes seemed designed to bring miniatures into combat. Bringing more rules into a combat system that was already abstracted in the wrong areas just seems to me to add to the problem.
I'm not saying it has no hope. I'm not saying that this is only wrong with d20. Other systems suffer similar flaws. I'm not saying I won't play d20. But in its current form it doesn't appeal to me. If they'd started out with basic rules, and then gave you advanced rules that you might or might not want to use, that might have been a better iteration. If they made a core system and then gave lots of different options, ways to warp things like Hit Points, the magic system, linear d20 rolls, and Armor Class (rather than the 30 year old outdated systems), I would have liked it better. And I don't mean having to pay another $20 for a splatbook.
All this is my opinion, and I realize I'm opening myself up for potential flame. But, it's ultimately what I don't like and not what someone else has to think. I didn't say d20 sucked, and I hope I managed to present my experiences in a somewhat mature manner, rather than spewing forth angry vitriol. If forced to play d20, I might play with either the OGL rules from Godlike, the Star Wars system (heavily modified to fit whatever setting), or Mutants & Masterminds. Those are the iterations I agree with most, and I don't need $100 to play the d20 that Godlike offered. It's free online.
If you hadn't heard it before, I thought you might at least be interested in a (hopefully) different opinion, to what you've already heard. If you've already heard it, then I apologize. I know I'm possibly preaching to the choir here -- everyone who hates d20 may agree with me, everyone who loves d20 will likely be offended. Take it as you would any other opinion. But I don't consider myself falling into one of the categories you mentioned. We're all victims of our own tunnel vision, unable to see what is around the next bend or even next to us, but I also don't consider myself anything but a card-carrying human being, capable of making my own choices, rather than ba-a-a-ing with the sheep.
Converted from Phorums BB System
It sounds like you've fallen into the logical trap "People bash something I like cuz it's number one and it's kewl to bash anything popular." Of all the reasons listed, you forgot a possibility that anyone's had a miserable time wrangling with the system.
Ultimately D&D and D20 help keep the hobby alive even as they seek to strangle it with homogenous junk. D20 helps keep some people in business, and we all owe a debt to the original D&D for inventing the hobby. That's about where my respect ends.
We've all heard and read about it before, in a hundred different ways, in a thousand different forums. I don't like D20. Why? Ask me about the hours-long rules calls that I nap through. Never even happened with something as crunchy as Rolemaster or Champions.
Is it cross-genre? Well, yes and no. Yes, because the core is there, but the individual feats change. I don't like feats, because they (A)aren't applicable at this time, (B) aren't conceptual for my character, and (C) either don't interest me and/or I have to learn all new ones each time, despite the fact that we're supposedly playing the same game system. I've seen some of the horrid attempts at supergaming. I saw one much-lauded game where a "Speedster" has "Streetwise" as a class skill. Uh...yeah.
I don't like that it seems to take seasoned players hours to put down numbers on a sheet. I want a character, not a spreadsheet.
I don't like the marketing ploy that is 3.5, and a great many of the changes I didn't like anyway, being familiar with the 3.0 rules. A lot of the changes seemed designed to bring miniatures into combat. Bringing more rules into a combat system that was already abstracted in the wrong areas just seems to me to add to the problem.
I'm not saying it has no hope. I'm not saying that this is only wrong with d20. Other systems suffer similar flaws. I'm not saying I won't play d20. But in its current form it doesn't appeal to me. If they'd started out with basic rules, and then gave you advanced rules that you might or might not want to use, that might have been a better iteration. If they made a core system and then gave lots of different options, ways to warp things like Hit Points, the magic system, linear d20 rolls, and Armor Class (rather than the 30 year old outdated systems), I would have liked it better. And I don't mean having to pay another $20 for a splatbook.
All this is my opinion, and I realize I'm opening myself up for potential flame. But, it's ultimately what I don't like and not what someone else has to think. I didn't say d20 sucked, and I hope I managed to present my experiences in a somewhat mature manner, rather than spewing forth angry vitriol. If forced to play d20, I might play with either the OGL rules from Godlike, the Star Wars system (heavily modified to fit whatever setting), or Mutants & Masterminds. Those are the iterations I agree with most, and I don't need $100 to play the d20 that Godlike offered. It's free online.
If you hadn't heard it before, I thought you might at least be interested in a (hopefully) different opinion, to what you've already heard. If you've already heard it, then I apologize. I know I'm possibly preaching to the choir here -- everyone who hates d20 may agree with me, everyone who loves d20 will likely be offended. Take it as you would any other opinion. But I don't consider myself falling into one of the categories you mentioned. We're all victims of our own tunnel vision, unable to see what is around the next bend or even next to us, but I also don't consider myself anything but a card-carrying human being, capable of making my own choices, rather than ba-a-a-ing with the sheep.