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Ian Absentia
01-07-2002, 02:14 PM
I'm bouncing this line of discussion out of the Faln thread and into its own, due mostly to inspiration from Mithras' following comment:
I can forsee some beautiful situations arising over what a character doesn't know, but does really. Kind reminds me of that surreal movie ... Mnemonic (?). In fact for most of it's early stages, I think a game of Faln might resemble this fractured, dreamlike film. Well it would if I ran it, anyway. People know you, you don't know them. It'd be time for some extreme paranoia.
That'd be "Memento", and man what a troubling (but good!) film that was. Though it would be an incredible stretch for a GM, I think this is a scenario where Grow-as-You-Go would really shine. Players have to spend points from their pool to keep recent events and abilities in active memory; roll against your Short Term Memory to see if you succeed in using it. Each scene would start with the pool refreshed and recent memories erased. It would be a challenge, not only for the GM, but for the players to purposefully exclude knowledge that their characters can't remember.

At first I figured this sort of game would work only as a one-on-one with a GM and a single player, but it occurred to me that people with rare conditions such as the one in "Memento" tend to be referred to specialist clinics for diagnosis, observation and treatment. Thus, you'd have the opportunity to gather a small handful of people with the same condition together, then set out AMA (Against Medical Advice) to pursue some sort of ephemeral goal. It'd be like "Memento" meets "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest".

Increasingly, I'm growing excited by the potential uses for Grow-as-You-Go in premises that are normally defeated by fully detailed character sheets -- amnesiac games, "newborn" games, past life recollection games, etc. It occurred to me that one could even use this sort of chargen method for a Werewolf: The Apocalypse game where your characters explore previous incarnations in the form of their ancestors -- the Gnosis attribute becomes one's ability to "remember" what your ancestor was really like.

Just to sort of concretise the Grow-as-You-Go method, I envisage a character initially being comprised of only two important characteristics: Memory (or Self-Awareness or whatever) and an Ability Pool. During play, players roll against their Memory to recall some knowledge or ability, and if they succeed, they may spend points from the Ability Pool to keep and use it. After that, they may roll against the ability instead of Memory.

Hmm...I have a few more ideas on how it could be used, but I'll hold off on those to let them ripen. More in a little while.

Gone,
Ian

leviathan
01-07-2002, 06:22 PM
<i> "Just to sort of concretise the Grow-as-You-Go method, I envisage a character initially being comprised of only two important characteristics: Memory (or Self-Awareness or whatever) and an Ability Pool. During play, players roll against their Memory to recall some knowledge or ability, and if they succeed, they may spend points from the Ability Pool to keep and use it. After that, they may roll against the ability instead of Memory." </i>

Ooooo! Sounds fun to me. I believe some other sort of concept be added to add to the mix... Like some sort of campaign test or sequence. Hell.. you could have the player split his character up into one representing his ability to remember, of which's stats would be quite simple... just attributes of his/her ego or personality. So instead of having a Memory stat, they could have another 'character', or maybe just stats that represent the character's ego. Things like: Pride, Fear, Hate, Persistance, Logic, etc.

When someone sleeps, they have dreams of the past and thoughts they had on their minds. Skills they decide to take up at that very moment are assessed by their distant fleeting memories. These fleeting memories can come at anytime the character might have a dream or daydream.

Now let's put this together. Let's say a game requires 6 attributes of ego. 1 Pride, 2 Hate, 3 Love, 4 Phobia, 5 Forsight, and 6 Ambition. Each of these are set at a number depending on the character's ability to remember events relating to that part of their ego. 1 being worst, 12 being best.

~~~
So let's say you have a character named Shelly. Shelly is always full of pride (8) and never let's her fear show (4). Shelly's player wants shelly to remember her bowing skill. So she rolls a 2d6. 1 and 4. Pride and Fear. She must come up with a memory of an event that encompases both of them. So Shelly's player describes a time when she had to bow down a giant spider, despite her fear of them. She rolls the d12 for her fear... a 3. Then she rolls for her pride. 9. That means she can't recall the memory because her stubborn pride won't let her remember that she was afraid of it and use a bow.

Now if she failed the fear roll, she wouldn't remember because she's still afraid of spiders. (; Or something like that.
~~~

Now... how do ya like that? Too much to keep track of in a surreal-ish game? Oh... BTW, this is inspired by another idea I have for a system that I will post soon enough when the ideas develop.

~Lev~

Mithras
01-09-2002, 09:15 AM
Grow-As-You-Play

Remember that old Bronson movie called 'Telefon'? (while we're on the subject of movies). A grow-as-you-play game for me would run along those lines I think. Players create normal US citizens going about their daily lives, create some soap-like complications etc. Meanwhile the GM creates an equal number of horrible hardened trained killers. These are the character's real personas, brainwashed into them during holidays to foreign destinations where they were kidnapped and programmed by the KGB.

When the game begins, everything is normal, each player receives a telephone call from Moscow - they are all activated. Perhaps it takes a while. The character begins with full amnesia and gradually 'learns' his new skills and predilections (including nasty habit of killing people who piss you off). Even the target is unknown and will slowly come to the consciousness of the character as he or she sees images or receives inputs from the world outside. It would need careful planning to have the target become the burning focus of the character's lives. But it needs to be done subconsciously (like the Wyoming peak in Close Encounters).

That's my half-baked thoughts on the matter, anyway.

Just Me
01-10-2002, 01:46 PM
I have used a similar idea for a character with MPD, or DI nowadays.

Ian Absentia
01-10-2002, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by Mithras
Grow-As-You-Play

Remember that old Bronson movie called 'Telefon'? (while we're on the subject of movies). A grow-as-you-play game for me would run along those lines I think. Players create normal US citizens going about their daily lives, create some soap-like complications etc. Meanwhile the GM creates an equal number of horrible hardened trained killers. These are the character's real personas, brainwashed into them during holidays to foreign destinations where they were kidnapped and programmed by the KGB.
This would work very nicely. A few other movies I can immediately think of for inspiration are "The Manchurian Candidate" (a great movie), "Total Recall" (a pretty darned fun movie), "Fight Club" (a very good movie", and "The Long Kiss Goodbye" (a stupid movie). All of them share the theme of a dissociated personality that is at odds with the predominant one. Things really start to get fun when the characters realise that they don't particularly like who they "really" are.

Playing out a scenario or two like this, it could be fun (but damned hard work) to set the players on the trail of their arch nemesis, only to gradually discover that they are their own nemesis.

Whoo!
Ian

Ian Absentia
01-27-2002, 08:08 PM
Just an update here.

I'm looking over the Storyteller system from White Wolf, and I realise that at least this particular point-allocation system would work beautifully for Grow-as-You-Go character development. Particularly starting out as a regular, low-powered slob, then developing into a super-powerful freak.

More later.

~Ian