Interesting...

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Post originally by K. Trane at 2001-05-08 16:45:08
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Sandy wrote:
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... and the fact that a large number of game writers make their salary writing porn.
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Really? That's news to me, and I'd guess to a lot of peope as well. You're telling the truth, right?

I have no problem with it at all, but it's something I never would have guessed.

K. Trane

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Post originally by K. Trane at 2001-05-08 18:38:20
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Since no one else seems to be here, I'll reply to myself. :)

I wrote:
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...it's something I never would have guessed.
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I mean, it makes sense and all when I think about it a bit. But I was surprised because I'd never heard about it before at all, and I've been reading stuff about the industry for some time.

K. Trane

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Post originally by Schmecky at 2001-05-08 19:08:12
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I hadn't heard this either. But, it shouldn't be a surprise that it isn't mentioned much. I mean what could be better than "those satanic games" except for "those games written by pornographers"?

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Post originally by K. Trane at 2001-05-08 19:21:20
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Schmecky wrote:
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But, it shouldn't be a surprise that it isn't mentioned much. I mean what could be better than "those satanic games" except for "those games written by pornographers"?
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Good point. It's just that I had not heard it mentioned *at all* before today, not even in a brief passing comment.

K. Trane

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Post originally by Sandy Antunes at 2001-05-08 20:19:32
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Hi,

My source is purely anecdotal-- partially from a dinner with freelancers, and others from talking with individuals. I know of one UK company where the bulk of the owner's income is from writing for "lad's mags", "Bizarre", and other 'fringe' items, and he mentioned writing porn. I know three gaming freelancers who write porn. I know of 2 gaming freelancers who do erotic photography. I also know of 2 gaming industry people who run or co-run adult sex shops.

So, a rough estimate, about 10% of the freelancers I know dip into the well of adult material for a little cash.

Cheers,
Sandy
sandy@rpg.net

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Post originally by Steve Dempsey at 2001-05-09 02:56:11
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I can guess which UK rpger you are talking about and I know a freelancer who also does porn for a living.

Maybe it is something to do with writing for an audience. It is what you have to do in RPGs. A good writer ought to be able to apply this to any subject area and what better than one that pays. I don't suppose porn demands too high a literary standard either.

GB STeve

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Post originally by Sergio Mascarenhas at 2001-05-09 03:08:45
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I always figured that RPGs were mainly an hobbie for people deeply involved in IT, speacialy software programmers. Now, my intuition (and anedoctal evidence) also tells me that IT people - specially software programmers - have an above-average interest in porn. Mind you, the net gave a major impulse to porn... and RPGs.

It all comes around: it's statistically certain that if you are into two of RPGs-porn-software, you must also be into the third.

All of this makes sense, but what I can't figure out is where satanism enters the equation. Why should people with an interest in RPGs-software-porn be satanists? That's what puzzles me.

Sergio

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Post originally by Ascension Mage at 2001-05-09 10:56:21
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Don't you know that?! Surely any xtian minister will tell you that if you even THINK about an RPG - much less actually PLAY one - you're a Satanist of the first order and you're going straight to hell; do not pass Go, do not collect $200, go straight to hell (but of course god loves you, and perhaps a large $ donation will help him overlook this little indiscretion). This was certainly my experience with my fundamentalist whacko baptist xtian church when I was in junior high. I left xtianity and ended up in therapy with what they did to me and this is one of the main reasons I have a fanatical hatred of xtianity most people can't even BEGIN to comprehend. I’ve suffered quite a bit of PERSONAL grief at the hands of fundie whackos, whose general policy is “conversion by fire or sword”.

I confess I'm mystified by the # of games who identify themselves as xtian – it’s something of an oxymoron to me, kind of like “military intelligence”. Honestly, if you REALLY think there’s no problem with this, try organizing a game at your church some time and see what reaction you get. Maybe you’ll get off easier than I did and NOT be told that you’re possessed by evil forces and that you “need to have some work done on you”, but I doubt it. If you’re not immediately ostracized or even expelled, I’d be quite surprised.

In the meantime I usually tell xtians: “What, you think we’re a bunch of Satanic cultists who spend our Friday nights sacrificing babies and having huge orgies? No, no, no – that’s WEDNESDAY nights, followed by bingo. FRIDAY nights are when dance naked around a huge bonfire waving our sacred rulebooks around. Didn’t you know that?”

Ascension Mage

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Post originally by Twiggy at 2001-05-10 08:21:25
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LOL! I've been the main organizer of a Vampire LARP for over 2 years and for some time we have been playing in a church basement. When we approached the church administration to rent the place, we told them that it was for an improvisational theatrical activity. After some time, they figured out we were playing being vampires: afterwards, we have never been able to rent their basement nor any other place related to religion for our activity. I guess that clerical authorities don't take well to a bunch of people who are playing a game where they pretend being damned creatures of the night seeking redemption (along with plenty of political backstabbing and intense psychological horror, but I don't see how it's related to the whole issue)...

Take care,

Twiggy

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Post originally by BlackHat Matt at 2001-05-10 10:48:35
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I guess that clerical authorities don't take well to a bunch of people who are playing a game where they pretend being damned creatures of the night seeking redemption (along with plenty of political backstabbing and intense psychological horror, but I don't see how it's related to the whole issue)...

Well, frankly, I can see their point. It probably has less to do with them viewing gamers as Satanists and more questioning the appropriety of that activity in that venue. Maybe In Nomine would be a better choice? :)
But it's pretty gutsy to rent out a church basement to play Vampire. Kudos.

-BlackHat Matt
www.geocities.com/blackhatmatt

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Post originally by Steve D at 2001-05-10 20:13:33
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Hey, I'm a Christian gamer. The two groups I've played with have also had Christians in them - including quite "strict" and dedicated ones (goes to church twice on Sundays). Got a Catholic in my current group. I know a strongly religious person - so much that she's anti-homosexualism - who has no problem with gaming (mainly because she knows me and thus knows what roleplaying really is about).

Anyone who tells you Christiantiy and gaming don't go together is a moron. Or rather, they've just met some people who are trying to be Christians, but are really just needing a label, and are so terrified of other viewpoints they can only destroy them. Sad, really.

And yes, I've roleplayed in a church. I've also played Magic in one. At one point, I thought about using the church hall to start a roleplaying club, and the minister gave me permission.

Remember, we don't all live in America. :)

Cheers,
Steve

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Post originally by infek bin laden at 2001-05-13 17:50:47
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I don't go in for software. All you HVCWs all assuming a false correlation.

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Post originally by dlpulver at 2001-07-03 22:04:04
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Sandy wrote:
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... and the fact that a large number of game writers make their salary writing porn.
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>Really? That's news to me, and I'd guess to a lot of peope as well. >You're telling the truth, right?

News to me that a "large number" do. I'd heard that one did. (Are their a large number of game writers in the first place?).

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Post originally by dlpulver at 2001-07-03 22:18:23
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>So, a rough estimate, about 10% of the freelancers I know dip into >the well of adult material for a little cash.

Ah. Given gaming pay rates, I wonder how many make more on pornography than on game design or manufacturing? (In which, I guess, they'd be "porn writers who dip into the well of gaming material
for a little cash...")

From what I've heard regarding sf and mystery genre authors, I suspect the 10%-dabble-in-porn figure might be true of ALL freelance writers working in low-pay genres. I do know a lot of game designers who earn the majority of their income through technical writing. I wonder what the percentage of game designers who earn more than half of their income strictly through game writing (not editing, publishing, novels, etc.) freelance or as company employees) is?

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Post originally by Steve Howells at 2001-07-04 03:45:46
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<i>I know of one UK company where the bulk of the owner's income is from writing for "lad's mags", "Bizarre", and other 'fringe' items, and he mentioned writing porn.</i>

That's a very exact identification, Sandy. Unless you're pulling a double bluff on us, the gentleman in question is very well known for his association with "Bizarre".

- Steve