Fighters *are* good leaders

[RPGnet Columns]

Post originally by John Zero at 2001-10-16 12:36:23
Converted from Phorums BB System

To mention a few examples:

George Washington - military leader and president
John Kennedy - ditto
Truman - ditto
Churchhill - military trained in WW I and prime minister
George Bush (Sr, and to a lesser extent, Jr) - ditto
Eisenhower - ditto
Prince William - military experience
and so on.

Also, I feel compelled to point out the folks at WOTC feel the same way - only the fighter in D&D is allowed the leadership feat.

I'll disagree with the rogue as leader. Blindsiding your followers and leading by bullying only goes so far.

Clerics could make great leaders, but tend to only attract followers of a devoted faction. They don't have the ability to unite whole groups of people to work toward a common goal.

Thanks for the article,
John

[RPGnet Columns]

Post originally by Daniel at 2001-10-16 13:48:32
Converted from Phorums BB System

I would disagree.

Number one, anyone can get the leadership feat. It's not limited to just fighters.

Secondly, from a purely results driven perspective, a thief could get things done. He might not be the most inspiring role model, but we're not talking about necessarily inspiring leaders. I'm sure everyone has seen their share of people who lead by manipulation. Sure, they're nasty and no one really likes them, but they do get things done.

As for the ability of clerics to lead, it is a definite possibility. The cleric just need not be rabid about their own tenants of belief. Granted this works better with a god/goddess who preaches tolerance, but you get the idea. I personally play a cleric turned paladin in a party where she was one of the primary leaders of the party in certain situations. Situational leadership is important. And just for the info, she didn't become a paladin because she was a leader, but because she felt her deity calling her to arms.

Daniel

[RPGnet Columns]

Post originally by kevin at 2001-10-16 15:53:34
Converted from Phorums BB System

Fighters *may* be good leader-figures, and good warlords, but i really don't think they have what it takes to be administrators. As soon as you start getting away from the "leadership by braining the competition" paradigm, fighters start to lose out.

secondly, i don't think any of your above examples could be considered fighters. military training, especially the "elite" training that is given the officer-types, has more to do with administration and less to do, after boot camp (plebe summer), with actual fighting.

[RPGnet Columns]

Post originally by Tauric the Butcher at 2001-10-16 19:45:35
Converted from Phorums BB System

"Military experience" is one thing. Being a Fighter, a professional warrior, a combat specialist, is another entirely. Heck, us Brazilians have compulsive military service but we're not exactly a country where every male would be a Fighter in D&D terms.

Most of the people you mentioned have a clearly defined political background with limited military experience.

BTW, I *do* thinks Fighters make good leaders. The noble castes of many civilizations (including Medieval Europe) were markedly associated with the military profession. See Ramon Llull's theory on knighthood for details ;)

[RPGnet Columns]

Post originally by clockworkjoe at 2001-10-17 14:11:45
Converted from Phorums BB System

Fighters and specifically paladin types are the best class for leadership roles in D&D. Of course any class can be a superb leader as it depends on far more than the skills granted by any one class.

However, Leadership is not the same as administration. Leadership is taking a group of strangers, forging them into a single well oiled dungeon death squad and most importantly getting them to TRUST one another. Administration is managing money and other logistic resources. You don't get a manager or administrator to lead a regiment over the trenches in a battle or lead the light brigade into the cannon fire and you don't get a warlord to push paper.

[RPGnet Columns]

Post originally by blackguard at 2001-12-13 21:05:40
Converted from Phorums BB System

Yes, but you don't lead well when your sword is missing because you misplaced it and your armor is in hock because you didn't bother to pay the armourer (gosh, where did all that gold go...) and you didn't get ahold of your wizard buddies in the next town and your cousin the paladin thinks the dungeon crawl is next week.

Administration is every bit a part of leadership, just not the important part of leading during a battle. Battles *do* end, and then every leader worthy of the name has to take care of the paperwork. Alexander did, Charlemagne did, Churchill did ...