Maybe you should first define "D&D".

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Post originally by DensityDuck at 2005-03-30 09:38:02
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There's a lot of chatter now about what makes D&D unique from other FRP games. Maybe we should go into that a bit more, to help with this "fourth edition" discussion.

I would say that the defining characteristics of Dungeons And Dragons are:

*Medieval, Tolkein-style fantasy setting.
*Class/Level system, with Experience Points as a score that represents how long (and how well) your character has been adventuring (and character level is tied to XP score.)
*Classes: Fighter (weapon skills), Thief (stealth/burglary skills), Cleric (support magic, weapon skills), Wizard (combat magic), Ranger (wilderness skills, weapon skills).
*Ability scores are a 3d6 roll, with bonuses for high scores and penalties for low scores.
*Combat is highly simplified and not intended to be completely realistic.
*Magic is based on levels, with more powerful spells appearing at higher levels. Spellcasters are limited in the number of spells they can cast in one day.

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Post originally by DensityDuck at 2005-03-30 09:40:27
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Part of where I'm going here is that we should make a list and say "if any of these things change, then the game is not D&D anymore." This isn't saying that these things aren't good ideas, but what we want to do here is make D&D work better <i>as D&D</i>, not turn it into some other game.

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Post originally by Narf at 2005-03-30 10:36:47
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Actually, if I remember correctly, the magic system came from a series called The Dying Earth.

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Post originally by CLAVDIVS at 2005-03-30 11:42:41
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The style of magic is attributed to Jack Vance, who wrote (among other things) the Dying Earth series, but that series wasn't the source. From what I've heard, "Vancian magic" only appeared in a single short story. There's a review of the Dying Earth RPG on this site, and if you read it you'll see the magic system is nothing like D&D's.

Of course, I dispute the idea that the game must use Vancian magic to be D&D anyway. Even before 3E and Unearthed Arcana and even Arcana Unearthed, I'd never actually USED the it; even playing 1E back in high school we were using a mana-point system.

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Post originally by Robert Aronson at 2005-04-01 02:59:35
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I think you should clarify what you're clarifying. :) It seems you're defining D&D common *rules* throughout the editions. What about *setting* and *theme*?

I would say this list is a bit closer and would allow more flexibility when it came to rules:

- A high fantasy swords and sorcery world designed for adventuring that increases both wealth and status
- A long, epic history filled with the workings of many gods
- A major presence of dragons
- Lots of "dungeons" to explore that are filled with monsters and treasure, the exploration of which increases wealth and status
- An assortment of magic items to be gained, such as potions, scrolls, and enchanted objects of all sorts
- A wicked assortment of arms and armor to show off
- A wicked assortment of things to kill to show off

All the standard player races:
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Dwarves - stubborn; haughty; prefer subterranean environs; masters of metalworking
Elves - arrogant; highly intelligent; prefer woodland environs; masters of wizardry
Gnomes - fun-loving pranksters; love to tinker with machines; masters of illusion magic
Halflings - extremely curious; adventurous; highly energetic
Half-Elves
Half-Orcs
Humans, who are the dominant form of intelligent life
Orcs - barbaric; war-minded; tribal; not good at magic

All the standard fauna of a high-fantasy world:
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Archons, Beholders, Bugbears, Celestials, Centaurs, Demons, "Dire" animals, Doppelgangers, Dragons (all forms), Gelatinous Cubes, Gnolls, Goblins, Griffins, Kobolds, Lizardmen, Mindflayers, Minotaurs, Nightmares, Ogres, Owlbears, Pegasi, Sprites (all forms), Trolls, Undead (all forms - ghosts, wraiths, spectres, poltergeists, liches, zombies, skeletons, etc.), Unicorns

etc, etc, etc, etc.

DensityDuck wrote:
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There's a lot of chatter now about what makes D&D unique from other FRP games. Maybe we should go into that a bit more, to help with this "fourth edition" discussion.

I would say that the defining characteristics of Dungeons And Dragons are:

*Medieval, Tolkein-style fantasy setting.
*Class/Level system, with Experience Points as a score that represents how long (and how well) your character has been adventuring (and character level is tied to XP score.)
*Classes: Fighter (weapon skills), Thief (stealth/burglary skills), Cleric (support magic, weapon skills), Wizard (combat magic), Ranger (wilderness skills, weapon skills).
*Ability scores are a 3d6 roll, with bonuses for high scores and penalties for low scores.
*Combat is highly simplified and not intended to be completely realistic.
*Magic is based on levels, with more powerful spells appearing at higher levels. Spellcasters are limited in the number of spells they can cast in one day.