[Exalted LARP] Any tips for constructing a boffer grand daiklave?

[David J Prokopetz]

No, I'm not aware of any Exalted LARP that currently uses boffer grand daiklaves; I'm just curious to see if it can be done, so I'm going to try it. ^^;

Any suggestions from the boffer crowd? I'm picturing a six-foot-by-one-foot-by-two-inch slab of lightweight foam, probably wrapped in fabric to prevent it from coming apart under stress, with a core of flexible plastic rods affixed to a bigass handle. Throw some weights in the hilt for proper balance, and you've got something that's big enough to knock folks down, but light and well-balanced enough for your average gamer to wave about - and as an added bonus, it has a broad, heavily padded contact surface, even edge-on, so it's not going to seriously hurt anyone.

What are your thoughts?

[Peter Svensson]

We had a thread on this last year back when I was working on a conversion of Exalted to Mind's Eye Theatre. (Said conversion was put on hold due to the immenient arrival of 2nd Ed. I'll start work on it again.)

I think there was some info on making a Daiklaive in said thread, if you can dig it up.

[Eisenmann]

No, I'm not aware of any Exalted LARP that currently uses boffer grand daiklaves; I'm just curious to see if it can be done, so I'm going to try it. ^^;

Any suggestions from the boffer crowd? I'm picturing a six-foot-by-one-foot-by-two-inch slab of lightweight foam, probably wrapped in fabric to prevent it from coming apart under stress, with a core of flexible plastic rods affixed to a bigass handle. Throw some weights in the hilt for proper balance, and you've got something that's big enough to knock folks down, but light and well-balanced enough for your average gamer to wave about - and as an added bonus, it has a broad, heavily padded contact surface, even edge-on, so it's not going to seriously hurt anyone.

What are your thoughts?

I'm sending this to the local guy that I was talking about in the other thread. Hopefully he'll pass along some boffer wisdom.

[DanMcS]

I would drive cross-state, if not exactly cross-country, with my freshly home-made BFS to play this. And I've never LARPed of any kind before, but any game which features actual 6-foot swords would be totally sweet.

[daHob]

It shouldn't be too hard to make. I'd suggest getting a single piece of open-celled foam to carve the blade out of though. that would be way more durable than trying to construct the blade from multiple pieces glues together somehow.

A cautionary note: even though it's made of foam, it is still going to have some decent mass to it. Pay attention to how hard you hit. The mass and air resistance of moving something htat big will likely make it sluggish too.

[David J Prokopetz]

It shouldn't be too hard to make. I'd suggest getting a single piece of open-celled foam to carve the blade out of though. that would be way more durable than trying to construct the blade from multiple pieces glues together somehow.I'd intended to use a single piece, yes - otherwise I wouldn't be concerned with where I'm going to get a six-foot slab of the stuff on short notice. :p

[daHob]

Try a fabric store. They usually have raw open celled foam for making pillows and the like.

[Christopher V. Brady]

Styrofoam! After all a GDK is suppose to be light, yes? Only problem would be durability.

[Cloud Divider]

In the past, in the boffer groups I played in, we used laminar construction for swords, using camping bedrolls of the closed-cell foam variety. It wasn't AMTGARD, or any of the other "big" boffer larps - basically a bunch of college kids who did this on their own.

Take the camping roll (~6' long, 2.5' wide), and draw out your sword design three times. One layer will be the center; in that one, you'll cut out a section that corresponds to the length of the PVC pipe (or fiberglass rod, if you've got the $$) that will form the spine. Leave about 2-3" between the end of the pipe and the tip of the sword, that'll form your thrusting tip. Use duct tape strips to attach the center piece of foam to the spine, then lay the other two blades up on either side, and tape them together. Ideally, you want use only just enough tape to hold the edges together (the closer to a single layer of tape, the better).

They worked reasonably well for moderate-to-fairly-big swords (anywhere from 2-4' blades). For something grand-daiklave-sized, it still works, but you end up needing a more rigid spine. In that case, doubling up the PVC or going to fiberglass seemed like the best solution.

The biggest one I ever made was in the 5' range; the largest I've ever used was roughly 6' (including handle), the blade was probably 4.5-5' in length, and probably 8" across (and about 2" thick) - pretty good approximation of a grand daiklave, to be honest.

In the end, you get a very decent-looking sword that's "safe enough." We never had any major injuries with them in the 3-4 years of regular use; the occasional red welt (or rarely bruise) from the too-hard strike, and the occasional broken pair of glasses (which occur pretty much regardless of boffer design in my experience). However, of the other 2-3 boffer groups I played with, they only received a "conditional" approval.

The biggest issue with something grand daiklave-sized is the momentum. More padding = more weight = more top-heavy = hits harder. So you're pretty much doomed to it being a weapon more capable of knocking the wind out of someone if you hit them wrong. On the upside, because they're heavy, you won't be able to swing them as quickly.

I think I've still got some of my old swords around that I hadn't yet given away(they're nearing 10 years old now...yikes!). If you want, I can send a photo.

[The Unconquered Shawn]

First of all, for inspiration:

http://www.fantasyprops.com/main.html

Second, a good step by step guide:

http://www.thetworivers.com/avatrix/sword/sword.htm

Third, want to do your own hilt wrapping?

http://pages.prodigy.net/tlbuck/tsuka/tsuka.htm

Fourth, another fantastic step by step guide (linked images seem to be down, sadly)

http://forums.cosplay.com/showthread.php?t=28010

Fifth, a tutorial on how to apply fiberglass cloth to foam in general

http://airfieldmodels.com/information_source/how_to_articles_for_model_builders/construction/apply_fiberglass_finish/

Sixth: try googling "cosplay sword construction"

That should pretty much cover your needs.

[David J Prokopetz]

Thanks, Shawn, but cosplay swords are a very, very different thing from boffer swords. If you whacked somebody with a cosplay sword, especially one constructed like that, you'd almost certainly do serious damage to the target, the sword, or both. They're not exactly designed with safety in mind. ^^;

[pawsplay]

I recommend a pair of graphite rods for the core, because of the length. For larger weapons, it's not a bad idea to put a "soft" layer of something squishy over the striking edge which is made of whatever ligthweight, firm foam material.
EDIT: And don't let the thing end up too light, or you'll have wind issues.

[neoweasel]

It shouldn't be too hard to make. I'd suggest getting a single piece of open-celled foam to carve the blade out of though. that would be way more durable than trying to construct the blade from multiple pieces glues together somehow.

A cautionary note: even though it's made of foam, it is still going to have some decent mass to it. Pay attention to how hard you hit. The mass and air resistance of moving something htat big will likely make it sluggish too.
Actually, I'd suggest using closed cell foam. It tends to hit a little harder, but it's MUCH more durable. Given that the striking surface is going to be on the order of 6 inches with your design, it shouldn't be a problem.

I prefer fibreglass to plastic rods for sword cores, though. I find that they tend to be a little more durable and a little more flexible (of course, that depends on the type of plastic rod you use). For a weapon of that size, I'd recommend a 1/2" rod at the very least.

[David J Prokopetz]

EDIT: And don't let the thing end up too light, or you'll have wind issues.I figure a couple of large gaps in the flat of the blade to break up the air flow will take care of that.

Hey, anime swords have funky curves and holes in them all the time. Never mind that this would compromise the strength of a real blade - it's more important that it looks cool. ;)

(Besides, if I'm using sufficiently resilient internal supports, I can get away with missing chunks of foam.)

[The Unconquered Shawn]

Thanks, Shawn, but cosplay swords are a very, very different thing from boffer swords. If you whacked somebody with a cosplay sword, especially one constructed like that, you'd almost certainly do serious damage to the target, the sword, or both. They're not exactly designed with safety in mind. ^^;

Ohhhhh... my bad. Didn't know that "boffer" was a term of art. Thought it was slang for "huge" or something. :o

[Peter Svensson]

Ohhhhh... my bad. Didn't know that "boffer" was a term of art. Thought it was slang for "huge" or something. :o
Boffer refers to swords created for the purposes of fantasy LARPers being able to hit each other with them without causing major harm. So a Boffer Grand Daiklaive would be a big ass sword that can be used in live action combat without hurting anyone.

[pawsplay]

Amusingly enough, both boffing and banging have approximately the same literal definitions and slang meaning.

[Ambrogino]

I didn't see this mentioned. Most "boffer" (god I hate that term. What's wrong with latex or gaffa to differentiate the external coating) weapons that have extrusions from the core that need to remain solid (such as axe blades) use layers of stiff leather as a replacement for a solid core to stiffen the blade. You might want to leather up the entire blade, or at least the striking edge.

[David J Prokopetz]

god I hate that term. What's wrong with latex or gaffa to differentiate the external coatingBecause sometimes you need a general term that encompasses all such weapons, regardless of construction or external coating, and it's the only one we have?

You might want to leather up the entire blade, or at least the striking edge.I very much doubt that a layer of stiff leather could support a foam body six feet in length.

[medivh]

I didn't see this mentioned. Most "boffer" (god I hate that term. What's wrong with latex or gaffa to differentiate the external coating) weapons that have extrusions from the core that need to remain solid (such as axe blades) use layers of stiff leather as a replacement for a solid core to stiffen the blade. You might want to leather up the entire blade, or at least the striking edge.

Start spelling it "buffer." As in, "There's a foam buffer between the core of the weapon and the struck surface."

For years, that's how I thought it was supposed to be spelled, assuming that "boffer" was an actual word and not just some made-up nonsense.

I still spell it buffer, only now it's a rebellious attempt to get it accepted as the "true" word by people who haven't seen it spelled before.

[Ambrogino]

I very much doubt that a layer of stiff leather could support a foam body six feet in length.

It's used in addition to the normal core, sorry if that wasn't clear. So from the inner out your construction goes carbon fibre pole, leather, foam, latex. Just to support the width of the foam a little stronger, since it's going to be considerably wider than a normal blade.

Because sometimes you need a general term that encompasses all such weapons, regardless of construction or external coating, and it's the only one we have?

I was LRPing (and that's another one. LRP, not LARP) for 15 years before I heard the description Boffer instead of latex/gaffer. Worked well for eveyone I knew.

[Max]

You hit somebody with a boffer, it says "boff" (as opposed to "donk", "clang" or "slash", or the somewhat firmer slap of a latex weapon).

[David J Prokopetz]

It's used in addition to the normal core, sorry if that wasn't clear. So from the inner out your construction goes carbon fibre pole, leather, foam, latex. Just to support the width of the foam a little stronger, since it's going to be considerably wider than a normal blade.I don't know - given the size of this sucker, you might want a few inches of "squish" on the edge. Something with that mass behind it doesn't need a firm striking surface to knock people down.

[Ambrogino]

I'd just be concerned that without something to keep it a little more rigid the blades going to end up woefully bowed after hitting something edge on - it'll start curling round and end up V shaped round the core.

If you make the main foam wedge rectangular you could add a triangular wedge of low density foam for the cutting edgeto get more give, though that'll strain the latex more. And if you want something ornate rather than plain I recomend a soldering iron for melting patterns into karimat - just make sure you do it in a well ventilated area. Given the size of the blade you could even do a picture on the flat of the blade like a frieze of a battle.

[David J Prokopetz]

I'd just be concerned that without something to keep it a little more rigid the blades going to end up woefully bowed after hitting something edge on - it'll start curling round and end up V shaped round the core.I was figuring on two cores, four to six inches apart. Easier to balance, and it allows for an anime-style slot in the centre of the blade to break up the aerodynamic profile.

[Ambrogino]

I was figuring on two cores, four to six inches apart. Easier to balance, and it allows for an anime-style slot in the centre of the blade to break up the aerodynamic profile.

Cool, but difficult to get the two cores in the blade to go into one in the hilt, without which you won't be able to hold it straight. Are you thinking something like a tuning fork with small cores crossing the main two at the top and bottom? If so you need a way to attatch them together otherwise it'll tear apart.

Three cores, one the entire length of the sword, two just the blade might be easier (and you get two slots. To put materia/hearthstones in obviously)

[David J Prokopetz]

Cool, but difficult to get the two cores in the blade to go into one in the hilt, without which you won't be able to hold it straight. Are you thinking something like a tuning fork with small cores crossing the main two at the top and bottom? If so you need a way to attatch them together otherwise it'll tear apart.I think I can handle that part - I may not know much about boffers, but I'm an old hand with industrial epoxies. :D

[Ian Absentia]

I've been making "light saber" boffers for a couple of years, and have been considering possibilities for making simulated Tékumelani chlen-hide weapons (in-game, chlen-hide is a specially-hardened leather, tough as bronze, but much, much lighter, so it can be fashioned into all sorts of improbably huge and elaborate shapes). For my light sabers, I start with a length of lightweight 1-inch PVC pipe, a rubber bicycle handlebar grip, and a foam swim "noodle", all of which have a snug 1-inch aperture.

For your purposes, I'd start with the PVC and bike grip. From there, I'd tend to go for some kind of packing foam. My wife was working with some wonderfully dense, flexible packing foams a while back, which are available in a variety of colors (including steel grey). I'd take two slabs of the packing foam, cut to the size and shape of your sword blade, hollow out a 1-inch half-round trough in both sides of the blades, then glue them together around your length of PVC with a plumber's PVC glue. There might be some problems with the foam blade twisting on the PVC core, but you might be able to get around that by installing some kind of "ribs" along the length of the PVC (but only along the backside of the blade -- the edge that will NOT be used as the "cutting" edge).

!i!

[Edit: D'oh! That's 1-inch PVC pipe, not 1/2-inch. :rolleyes: I must have been thinking in radii, not diameters.]

[David Goodner]

The guy who runs Safer Swords (www.saferswords.com, except it's not working right now) built me a boffer greatsword. The original spec was something like a German zwiehander with a big, honkin crosshilt.

He said there was no way to use PVC joints for the hilt, because they wouldn't hold up under use, no matter what glue he used. So he ended up building my sword by drilling a hole in a piece of 2 inch PVC for the crossguard and running the bladeshaft through it. After about a year of use, the hilt came loose and had to be reattatched. (Of course, I used it to fight "Christian style" as a parrying weapon, so the hilt took a lot of abuse)

You may have trouble with joints.

Lance (the guy who built the sword) also had trouble with the length. Originally I wanted 5 feet, but beyond around 4, the blade got too weak.

He also said it was a pain in the ass to build. He did mine for $45, but he said after building it that he'd charge over $100 to do another one. :)

I've only worked with PVC. If I were going to try to build a grand daiklave, I'd start with at least one inch pipe for the core. Then I'd build the blade out of layers of close-cell foam, in four sections, creating a multi-layered wafer around the core, as follows:

....====
===O===
....====

(Forgive my crappy ascii art)

I'd use spray adhesive and sewing to hold it all together, using a big, honkin needle to sew the sections together for a better bond.

I'm not sure it would work, or how much contact you can have. These modern kids like light, fast boffers that they tap each other with at lightning speed. I prefer a heavy, well-padded boffer that you have to use a little like a real weapon, so that strength and strategy matter a little more than the ability to shake your wrist really fast. This would probably be the worst of both worlds.

I'd go for a very long hilt, relative to the blade. Something like this:

...........................____________________________
..........................|................................. ......................|
=============............................................... ......../
..........................|__________________________ /

David G.

[David J Prokopetz]

I'd go for a very long hilt, relative to the blade.Of course - I was figuring on at least two feet for the hilt, with maybe some weights in the end to improve balance.

[JackT]

<img src=http://www.surrealdream.com/sword.jpg>
<img src=http://www.surrealdream.com/size.jpg>

*Whistles innocently*

[invisible_al]

Now that is a Latex Canoe (sword of unfeasible length) and a half :D.

[Raised by Chickens]

Cricket bat of DOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!