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Levi
05-07-2006, 12:18 PM
See this?

I dunno about this, Levi. I've played in half a dozen different LARPs and all of them were incredibly cliquish. When you're a newbie in a LARP and you know only a few or none of the other players, you spend most of your time not knowing what is going on. None of the experienced players would give me the time of day. Furthermore, the amount of power creep made me extremely weak against the most basic of foes, while the veterans were rolling everything in sight. Most of them weren't thrilled to be coming to the rescue of a "clueless newbie". How can these situations be avoided?

Up until now, my main solutions to this have been:

1) Relatively rare combat - In MET, I re-engineeered the system so that every fight is costly, no matter how good you are, and usually highly lethal. People quickly got away from fighting as a solution.

2) I have the experience game rigged. I've used a really steep point curve for buying big stuff, and I let new players give away points to people that taught them things (3 per game, giving up to one to each person that helped them).

3) Trying to be welcoming to new people whenever one came along.

...These were pretty good workarounds, but not perfect by any stretch.

Anyone else out there have better thoughts?

Jadasc
05-07-2006, 12:28 PM
Explicitly encourage mentoring and "selling" for new players. Whatever your reward incentives are, boost them for established players who make the effort to help the new people thrive or look cool.

Lost Demiurge
05-07-2006, 01:50 PM
I've noticed that this is a bit less of an issue in boffer-weapon LARPs. When your life could be saved because that newbie had a healing potion, or had the presence of mind and fleetness of foot to run for help when the orcs attacked, you have a little more incentive to treat them nicely.

Basically, the less important your character's stats are and the more important your player's skill and presence of mind (Not to mention ability to socially interact), the more welcoming the environment.

NOTE: This isn't true with all boffer weapon LARPs, or even chapters within the same game. When you've got a chapter where everyone who's been playing a year or two is nobility with magical weapons, and the plot team's dumb enough to send stuff in that's only hit by magic, the newbies tend to get wasted left and right, or bossed around by the nobles who use them as meat shields. As with anything, a bad plot team and a few arseholes as players can sour things for new players...

angelsorayama
05-07-2006, 04:02 PM
Well... the first step is to make sure that the new player has some sort of "mentor". Someone who can help guide them through their first couple of games. If the storyteller is too busy to do it, then perhaps a narrator or a fellow player.

Next, I think it's important to introduce the new player; make sure everyone knows he/she is new and still getting his sea legs, so to speak. That way the other players are also aware that the new player might need help, or doesn't know the rules upside down and backwards, or whatever other problems arise from being new.

I also think it's important for new players to attend after-games. That way the new player can get to know his/her fellow players in a less daunting, friendlier atmosphere.

Lastly, it is my opinion that no one should ever be cranky about coming to the rescue of the newb. It's just plain bad form to be angry because someone is new, low level, and doesn't necessarily know all the rules. They were once newbs too and if they're being pissy, they might need an attitude check.

Angel

Redfeild
05-07-2006, 10:25 PM
Beer.

Wiseblood
05-08-2006, 08:20 AM
Another thing you can do to help get new players involved is (assuming you are using pregen characters or at least worked with/talked to the person about their character before they started playing) to make sure that they are playing a character that has links to what is going on in the game (events, other characters, etc).

Lig
05-08-2006, 05:13 PM
At N-E-X-U-S, we've got a few techniques we use, and I think they're relevant to most larps.

> We have a rather drunken social evening before the game starts (people can also stay the night after the event).
> The organisers camp and socialise with the players as much as is humanly possible (admittedly, less than we'd like, but we are rather busy), and we try to really keep the community feel going. Being there to welcome new players and shake hands is important - half the problem is that new people can be too shy to really get involved, and end up stuck on the fringes socially.
> Make the rules reward group-based acitivty - suddenly, the established players will be fighting each other to get the support of the new players.
> Having an internet forum where people can talk between events - it helps build up common ground in out of character discussions, and if you use in character forums, new players can start buildings relationships before they meet people in the big scary real world.
> Encourage your players to try other larps as much as they can - that way, they'll never forget what it's like to be a new player at a larp (same applies for organisers and crew - they should never be allowed to forget what it's like to play/crew).
> Don't have a big power differential between new and established characters; if a couple of new characters don't have a chance to take down one established character, then you're going to get problems. Item-based rules are also better than skill-based rules in this regard - a new player then has a chance to trade/borrow/steal/etc... power, and established characters have to worry more about keeping power than they do about gaining it.

I remember my first ever larp - everyone was really nice, but I was so shy that I had a hard time getting involved. If I'd been at a cliquey larp, I think there's a chance that I never would have larped again.

Morrius
05-08-2006, 05:50 PM
Wow. I made Levi start a new thread.

Seriously, I think this is a major problem in LARPs. Not just getting new players, but keeping them. Any group needs new blood to prevent stagnation.

I think one of the best things to do is have the newcomer work with the plot staff. When a new character comes to town, they're the target of the plot. Veterans are well-established enough so they can create their own situations. It's the newbies that need a push from the organizers.

angelsorayama
05-08-2006, 08:22 PM
Not something I've ever done in specific (above and beyond the plot that I throw at all my players) but definitely worth trying. :)

RabidBunny
05-09-2006, 10:23 AM
All experience gained from running oWoD, but may be useful to other types of LARP as well.

As I think everyone has mentioned, mentoring is the best way to get new players involved in a game, especially if the mentor has experience of the different aspects of the game and is willing to get players involved. Make it worth the mentors while (a public thank you at the end of a session, a beer the next time you catch them away from the game) and they'll begin to see the worth in doing so. Eventually you will hopefully get a core of players who will volunteer to mentor and then the hard part of the works been done.

Make sure that people know their are new players, especially if you have established players who play very confrontational characters - decent players will tone it down at first until they know just how far they can push new players but will still get them involved without stepping away from a character personality. If characters do become confrontational, make sure that they have chance to talk to each other as soon as possible after the game as ended to show new players that they can be nice after all.

Always have a large chunk of ongoing plot that is specifically designed for new players to get their teeth into and become involved in the game, make sure that established characters keep away from it (easier to say than do at times).

I'd also note the importance of getting them involved with the out of game social aspect that most societies develop. Once someone has got to know the group outside of the game they'll feel less self concious about asking questions at future games. This can be especially true for them getting to know the refs' aways from the normal stresses of a game where they can talk things through in greater depth. We have a monthly "Downtime Session" a week after the game each month which focusses on the group socially and have found that new players will become more involved on their next game once they've seen everyone in their "civvies".

Lastly, make sure that they don't get disheartened if nothing goes their way on the first game, and be sure to discuss why they feel disheartened if they do. Make constructive suggestions about where their character could go in the future, especially if you have seen others recover from the same position in the past, it will make them feel better to realise that they aren't the first person to be completely bewildered by the situation.

Black_Flame
05-09-2006, 01:30 PM
The thing that I think works the best is to have a Narrator or even ST devoted to New Players. Call the position the "New Player Narrator" or "New Player ST."

It works like this: new player comes to game. New player sits down with the New Player ST/Narrator and they talk about what the new player would like to play.

The NPN in the course of this does the following:

a) introduces the new player to the basics of the game, if neccesary. Basically, explain what the game is about, and what choices are available for player characters, etc.

b) Let's the player know what ideas are allowable in the game, and which aren't.

A lot of the time I've seen new players come in and not enjoy themselves, it's because they came in with a new character all prepared with zero knowledge of the game or what's allowable, or what's even going on. They they charge into game and get rebuffed (and I think rightly so) for being so out of touch.

This part of the conversation should include what stats are allowable and aren't, which groups are overcrowded, which could use people, etc. If, for example, you know that the game is in sore need of an Uktena Galliard, well... you can pass this on. If the new player wants to play an Uktena Galliard, then you've given them a niche all thier own.

c) Helps construct the character stats. This is because the NPN is probably better at constructing sheets than the average new player, but it's also helpful because the NPN has an idea of what's going on in game, and knows which skills will make the new player valuable to the other characters, and which stats aren't, etc.

d) Helps develop the character background. There are a number of background pieces about the game that an NPN can weave new characters into, so in the process of character creation, the NPN can say, 'hey, there's this thing in our game that might jive well with that thing you're doing with your character.'

e) Saving the best for last-- the last thing the NPN does is run enterence scenes. The new character needs to get into the game somehow, after all... and it usually helps for new players to have a period of getting used to being in thier characters skin. The enterence scene is the perfect bit for this-- the new player gets a test run of the character before starting to interact with the other players, and the NPN gets a feel for the character. In the meantime, the new player is getting personal plot run all just for them, and the NPN finds a way of fluidly melding the new character into the story of what's going on in the game.

This is vastly different than being a new player being expected to just show up and find a place for yourself. The NPN guides the character into game, imparts them with useful knowledge of what's going on in the game, and usually gives them a small goal to be accomplished within the course of the game (like they know they have a message to the Prince from the Prince of thier last city, for Vampire games). The NPN may even pull players of other characters into the introduction-- say the Primogen of the Clan/Covenant, who knows the character is coming, and another character, who may have a contact that knows something about the new character. By the time the character has been settled into game... at least three or four PC's should have some relationship to the new character, if only very brief and tenuous.


Overall-- when all's said and done, the new player has just had the exclusive attention of someone on staff for at least an hour, and at least one personalized plot run for them that night. If they feel they were ignored, then it's obvious they have a personal problem, espeacially if (as you should) you have a friendly NPN.


Another thing, beyond the NPN that I find useful: In character 'fostering' systems. They are useful for new players that are totally new to the game altogether, not just a player who already knows the game.

This is common in many Werewolf games, where people choose to start as 'Cubs.' They get a chance to learn both in character and out of character about the game, and there is usually some PC responsible for them (Denparents-- my Garou game has both a Denmother and a Denfather, we have so many cubs).

This is possible in other games, though. To be a WoD snob:

In Vampire, the NPN can maintain a list of PC's looking for Childer. This is assuming of course, that the Prince is ok with the PC's creating new Childer, but if you're looking to set up this structure in Vampire, it becomes a social faux pas for the Prince to deny someone the rite to create Childer. Means they think the Vampire in question isn't a competant Kindred. New Vamp has some social issues with the creation of new Vamps period, but still, you get the idea. This can go beyond just PC's, though-- you can open up the possibility of the new character being the Childer of an NPC.

In Changeling, there's the Fostering. Newly Chrysalized Changelings (and Chrsalises are GREAT enterence scenes) are supposed to be hooked up with established Changelings to learn the basics of being a Changeling. So whoever manages the local Barony decides who in the Barony Fosters the new character, and that character then has a mentor.

In Mage-- pretty much the same thing as Changeling. The PC's come across the newly Awakened Mage, and then they have to figure out how to teach him/her about the Traditions, and magic and stuff. This works even better in a Technocracy Larp, because usually there is a rank structure in a Technocracy game... so the new PC can be assigned to someone in particular (NWO Ivory Tower types are usually awesome at this).

BlackFlame

invisible_al
05-10-2006, 11:18 AM
In the vampire game I played back in Uni the mentoring thing worked quite well, a lot of the more established players in each of the clans knew they had a responsibility to look after the new players and get them involved for the first few months. There was also an unofficial truce for a new players first session, i.e. don't utterly destroy their character on their first game.

There was also a lot of mechanics in the rules to encourage power block building, anyone who turned up was a useful resource to be recruited and used to further your ends. So new players were dragged into a lot of stuff by established players looking for an edge.

The refs also made sure there was a 'new player' plot or two aimed specifically at the new players at the start of the year. They made sure they didn't have time to be bored in a word.

One thing was the refs made sure to keep an eye out for any established players acting sleazy or harrassing new women players. This only happened with one particular player but it made them ultra careful that it didn't happen again.

Allison Wonderland
05-10-2006, 12:17 PM
My advice is going to be simplistic, but shouldn't be taken to be facetious. That being said, here's what I do to make new players feel welcome:

I act as if they're welcome.

Seriously, that goes a heck of a long way. Being excited about their character, giving them ideas where they'd fit in, acting as though their presence matters and in a good way - it would be hard for them not to find that encouraging, I think.

This is (perhaps obviously) not just important for ST-types, but for other players as well. There's so much potential in a new player. I for one find it exciting!