Where the Goth?

[Redfeild]

When I first started playing we had some of the coolest costumes. If you did not have a costume then you followed the Rule of Black. Now a days you show up as is and the costumes are seriously toned down.

What happened? Why do the vampire games today have no teeth?

[Levi]

...We still got heavy costume out here.

'Course, we also do period games out here pretty regularly.

[JakeMorley]

I haven't LARPed in the last couple of years, but I did costume when I went. I never went Goth though. I think the problem is that Goth is a fairly exclusionary subculture, it's easy to do it wrong, and it's quite possible to be an otherwise average human speciman and look quite ridiculous (and therefor be self conscious and uncomfortable, two things not conduscive to an enjoyable experience) if you go goth. Aside from that, Vampires in White Wolf games haven't been exclusively Goth for quite some time now, and it's not something that's going to make a lot of sense for all character concepts.

[James Holloway]

That look is done. The heavy-goth Vampire game was a thing of the mid-90s, really. Most people try to dress appropriately for their characters, which means that you'll see the occasional gothy-looking person, but why would there be more than a few?

[Jadasc]

What happened? Why do the vampire games today have no teeth?

Because the target audience shifted from "vampire fans playing at gaming" to "gamers playing vampires."

[angelicmadrigal]

When I first started playing we had some of the coolest costumes. If you did not have a costume then you followed the Rule of Black. Now a days you show up as is and the costumes are seriously toned down.

What happened? Why do the vampire games today have no teeth?


Well for one not all vampires dress the same. I mean who wants to scream "Hey look, pay attention to me!" when there are hunters rnning around that see goth and go.."hrmmmm that person look suspicious" then boy do you have a problem.

I tend not to invest a lot of money in my costumes mostly because I'm broke most of the time. Also I don't sew so there's another problem. I'm fairly good at making use of what I have though. But I don't think costuming is that important, in fact sometimes it tends to intimidate new players. So I like to be the person that is approachable about my costume/make up. I also have a limited background in costume/makeup design and in the case of costumes making things for theatre. I did that for about 4 years so I'm all for sharing what I know, but I'm not into putting a ton of money into LARP.

[pawsplay]

Well for one not all vampires dress the same. I mean who wants to scream "Hey look, pay attention to me!" when there are hunters rnning around that see goth and go.."hrmmmm that person look suspicious" then boy do you have a problem.

I'm kind of into the concept of vampires-as-superheroes, and goth clothes are their costume. Similarly, spies in action movies often wear tuxes or show a lot of skin, because that's their uniform.

[James Holloway]

It's also a case of the player base "graying" -- I think. A lot of people have played very gothy characters already, and then in subsequent games done something different for variety. Since there isn't the huge influx of new players there used to be, you don't see as many obvious first-time characters (the Crow knockoff, for one) as you used to.

[Thornlord]

When I first started playing we had some of the coolest costumes. If you did not have a costume then you followed the Rule of Black. Now a days you show up as is and the costumes are seriously toned down.

What happened? Why do the vampire games today have no teeth?

People began to really stress the "Masquerade" part of the games that I played in and would go out of their way to openly mock and annoy any and all who dressed up. I rarely dressed in black but I would often dress in dark suits with deep reds.

That's why I joined LARP, to play dress-up. :)

[angelicmadrigal]

I'm kind of into the concept of vampires-as-superheroes, and goth clothes are their costume. Similarly, spies in action movies often wear tuxes or show a lot of skin, because that's their uniform.

Which I tend to find to be terribly cliché.

[Matt-M-McElroy]

In our Obsidian LARP the costumes range from gothic/industrial to corporate suits and occasionally "club wear" depending on the characters. We're putting together some pretty cool stuff for our upcoming game too...

Regards,

Matt

[Black_Flame]

Things have shifted from the victorean goth look to:

a) The snazzy suit look. Lots of vampire players wearing some very nice-looking suits these days

b) The club look. Which is to say, that the original impetuos to wear all the heavy goth stuff-- looking good at the club-- changed it's look. Less with the velvet and white face makeup, more with the... I guess you'd call it the industrial look. Also, there's an element of dark wave raver in there... and the new punk/metal look. Suffice it to say, that the Goth of the past died, and now we have several different replacements that are more... mainstream, I'd guess you say.

c) Chicks in sexy outfits that are damn close to lingerie are still popular (and common). It's just that the 'sexy' look is less about black lace and more about... well, other things these days.

d) the bondage/bdsm look has shifted. More leather pants, less velvet tights and pirate shirts. This is a good transition, if you ask me.

BlackFlame

[komradebob]

Because the target audience shifted from "vampire fans playing at gaming" to "gamers playing vampires."

From my LARP experience, that shift took place more than a decade ago :(

[angelicmadrigal]

c) Chicks in sexy outfits that are damn close to lingerie are still popular (and common). It's just that the 'sexy' look is less about black lace and more about... well, other things these days.


These are usually the girls I refer to as "the slut brigade". For me these are the girls that defiantely scream "I'm attention starved" or "I'm trying to get laid". I find it terribly sad actually since there are those of us that look pretty damn good, and respect ourselves too much to look like gothic crack whores.

[komradebob]

These are usually the girls I refer to as "the slut brigade". For me these are the girls that defiantely scream "I'm attention starved" or "I'm trying to get laid". I find it terribly sad actually since there are those of us that look pretty damn good, and respect ourselves too much to look like gothic crack whores.
:eek:

Jeez, don't beat around the bush so much- How do you really feel?

[Redfeild]

All good answers. But I'm not just seeing a trend a way from the goth look, I'm seeing a trend away from costumes in general or at least toned down costumes.
I'm guilty of it myself. I do not have the time or paitiance to put together a costume. Heck, I do not even follow the Rule of Black anymore. I come exactly the way I was dressed at work.

[Redfeild]

These are usually the girls I refer to as "the slut brigade". For me these are the girls that defiantely scream "I'm attention starved" or "I'm trying to get laid". I find it terribly sad actually since there are those of us that look pretty damn good, and respect ourselves too much to look like gothic crack whores.

The irony of this is that as much as they LOOK like they want attention and LOOK like they want to get laid the opisit seems to be so. Just try talking to them. They are usualy part of a click that you are not in and don't dare try to ask one of them out.

I guess I'm glad they are not around so much anymore. They were nice to look at though.

[angelicmadrigal]

:eek:

Jeez, don't beat around the bush so much- How do you really feel?

::laughs:: yeah yeah, I'm mean.

[angelicmadrigal]

The irony of this is that as much as they LOOK like they want attention and LOOK like they want to get laid the opisit seems to be so. Just try talking to them. They are usualy part of a click that you are not in and don't dare try to ask one of them out.

I guess I'm glad they are not around so much anymore. They were nice to look at though.

Well to me it doesn't matter WHAT they say, if they dress like that it's DEFINATLEY what they're after. Or they're just well....you know...teases. ANd why would _I_ want to talk to them? Please, if someone saw me talking to girls like that that....nevermind. It'd be a cold day in hell first. I MIGHT grace them with my RP, but OOC chat, no way.

And I'm not a lesbian so I wouldn't ask them out. And oyu're right they probably aren't part of the click I"m in since I'm actually there to RP, not socialize.

[Jadasc]

From my LARP experience, that shift took place more than a decade ago :(

I'd quibble on the number; you could still get that sort of thing as late as 1998.

[komradebob]

I'd quibble on the number; you could still get that sort of thing as late as 1998.

Can we split the difference and call it nine years?:p

[Jadasc]

Can we split the difference and call it nine years?:p

Aw, sure. I'm accomodating. :cool:

[pawsplay]

Which I tend to find to be terribly cliché.

So what? Most people who get into vampire stuff probably want and expect ruffles and marble mausoleums and such. I think that the jading (maturing?) of the gamer population in that department is kind of sad, really, because all the costumes and such was just great fun.

In WW's new vampire, there's a lot less focus on elders and such. Which I think is unfortunate. Vampires are attractive at least partially for their immortality, not just their damned status. "It's good to be bad." Less elders, less decadence in general means less excuse for people to doll up as a Victorian sadists or Hell's harlequins.

I think if you really wanted to get the costuming going again, period games are the way to go. Whether it's the 1980s or the 1880s, people have a picture in their head of the most iconic, and striking looks.

[angelsorayama]

That's why I joined LARP, to play dress-up. :)

Me too! :D

I think there are multiple reasons for costuming drifting. One of them being money. Have you seen the price of a corset nowadays? Also, I'm sure the availability of costuming can be a problem. If you're part of a Dark Ages Vampire game, it can get pretty expensive to costume authentically.

Costuming should definitely portray the character. I find it hard to take a Ventrue seriously if he/she is dressed in leather corsets/pants/whatnot. Not really very business-like. So... the gothy fashion has been replaced by more appropriate costuming like business suits or evening gowns or whatever.

Lastly, I think maybe some Larpers have grown out of their gothic phase... hard to believe but quite possible.

All that being said, I take every opportunity to dress sexay in teh larp...
Cause it makes me feel pretty...

:p

[Yessod]

At least in the Vampire LARP I regularly play in, wearing lots of goth clothes tends to get you pretty thoroughly mocked by harpies. People can usually get away with a black trenchcoat with a black shirt, as long as they aren't over the top with it. We are in SF, after all. Dark Suits are also just fine.

Generally speaking, any low-status character who wears anything that stands out in a crowd gets told not to. One person who was wearing complicated bondage pants and a shirt that said, and I quote, "Vampire" was given the choice of exile or Abercrombie & Fitch.

[komradebob]

At least in the Vampire LARP I regularly play in, wearing lots of goth clothes tends to get you pretty thoroughly mocked by harpies. People can usually get away with a black trenchcoat with a black shirt, as long as they aren't over the top with it. We are in SF, after all. Dark Suits are also just fine.

Generally speaking, any low-status character who wears anything that stands out in a crowd gets told not to. One person who was wearing complicated bondage pants and a shirt that said, and I quote, "Vampire" was given the choice of exile or Abercrombie & Fitch.

Wow. So many things I hate about MET LARPs rolled into one post.

[Yessod]

Wow. So many things I hate about MET LARPs rolled into one post.

Why, it's almost as though Camarilla Vampires were largely shallow, vindictive, manipulative bitches whose primary joy in social interaction is petty backstabs and snide remarks about people who don't fit in.

[komradebob]

Why, it's almost as though Camarilla Vampires were largely shallow, vindictive, manipulative bitches whose primary joy in social interaction is petty backstabs and snide remarks about people who don't fit in.

So we're in agreement then?

[Yessod]

So we're in agreement then?

Nah, that's largely why I like them. ;) But we shouldn't derail the thread.

To actually contribute: One LARP I played in had very gothy clothing. It was private, not a vampire LARP, and the setting was a bit of a cross between Heian Japan and early Enlightenment France. Most of the costuming was a mix of Japanese, 18th century French, with some Renn Faire thrown in. The magic in the system was based on sigils and cards.

Basically, you had lots of people wandering around in powdered makeup, scheming, philosophizing, wearing kimono or overly elaborate shirts with ruffles, often with wierd black runes drawn on parts of their bodies. Add in a black light and a DJ, and we would have been a Goth club.

[komradebob]

Nah, that's largely why I like them. ;)
:D ( although i still like the costumey goth aspects...)

[tetsujin28]

What happened? Why do the vampire games today have no teeth?You must not go to cons near San Francisco. I see some absolutely wonderful uber-goth wear at Dundracon.

[tetsujin28]

I think if you really wanted to get the costuming going again, period games are the way to go. Whether it's the 1980s or the 1880s, people have a picture in their head of the most iconic, and striking looks.You've nailed it, IMHO. For me, the most fun part of LARPing is the costumes. And period larps are awesome fun. Can't wait to drag out some of my Victorian costumes for the larp that's going on in a few weeks.

[tetsujin28]

Nah, that's largely why I like them. ;) But we shouldn't derail the thread.

To actually contribute: One LARP I played in had very gothy clothing. It was private, not a vampire LARP, and the setting was a bit of a cross between Heian Japan and early Enlightenment France. Most of the costuming was a mix of Japanese, 18th century French, with some Renn Faire thrown in. The magic in the system was based on sigils and cards.

Basically, you had lots of people wandering around in powdered makeup, scheming, philosophizing, wearing kimono or overly elaborate shirts with ruffles, often with wierd black runes drawn on parts of their bodies. Add in a black light and a DJ, and we would have been a Goth club.That sounds like a ton of fun! And you said you're in SF? We should get together, sometime!

[Uberxael]

A lot of the LARPs down here give out an XP bonus for costuming, so most people put in at least some effort.
Also, the arrival of the Lancea Sanctum has given us a lot of priest costumes. It's cool. (It's actually indicitive of one of the things about the Lance I like-they're prepared to risk a Masquerade violation for their faith, and no-one's brave enough to question it)

[Yessod]

That sounds like a ton of fun! And you said you're in SF? We should get together, sometime!

I'd be happy to! And yes, From Light to Darkness (the LARP I was referring to) was huge amounts of fun. I didn't like a few of the storyteller's choices, but overall it was a really incredible game. It's wrapped up at this point, though, and I suspect that with a now two-week old son the ST won't be running anything new for a good bit.

[James Holloway]

I'd be happy to! And yes, From Light to Darkness (the LARP I was referring to) was huge amounts of fun. I didn't like a few of the storyteller's choices, but overall it was a really incredible game. It's wrapped up at this point, though, and I suspect that with a now two-week old son the ST won't be running anything new for a good bit.

I think I once got a bunch of publicity material for that game after playing in a SIL-West game with some of the people in it. I seem to recall a system involving drawing toothpicks out of a film can ... or am I hallucinating again?