Charachter Sheets

[ChapinoMuse]

Question of Chrachter SHeet Creation:
(my favorite part of game design)


When is to much too much?

What is the bare minimum?

What should be avoided?

Should Sheet be made for other facets of the game?

What You think of the UPS?
(shameless plug of my favorite creation from ybull.net)

[Andrew Martin]

> What You think of the UPS?

Players can write their own equivalent to UPS in about five to ten minutes. Groups using a commercial system will use the commercial system's character sheet, or if that's not available, will create their own. Some groups might even go to the extent of designing a sheet then getting pads of them printed commercially -- Our group did this for ICE's SpaceMaster and RoleMaster game systems.

> What should be avoided?

Excessive self promotion. It turns people against you.

> Should Sheet be made for other facets of the game?

Perhaps you should focus on what's usable by your own players first? Several of your sheets contain spelling errors and capitalisation errors, making them unusable by others. It's probably a really good idea to use them yourself and refactor the design based on your own experience and your player's experience.

Instead of making a generic sheet, go for extreme specialisation. So making your character sheet the only possible choice to play a game with, because of it's extremely high quality and tight "fit" to the game mechanics. Now this will be hard work. It's not easy at all.

As an example, check out S.John's site, where the free "Sparks" are. Have a look at them and see how well the drawings are made. Also, have a look at how carefully S.John promotes his products. If you want people to use your character sheets, you need to improve them substantially, and promote them less!

I hope that helps!

[Joshua BishopRoby]

Post them in a usable format, not in possibly the worst Word Processing program in the world.

pdf, html, even rtf is better.

[Ebenezer]

I look at the character sheets in a game as the fastest way to get an idea of the system. I can see what stats are used, if there's any social information, what gets tracked/logged for skills and magic, etc.... They're one of the first things I eyeball.

So... the more detailed the better.

Eb

[ChapinoMuse]

Well, For the Record I have used everything I have created, and have had great session with them, but it doesn't count cause I know what I had in mind for them. I will go back and fix the spelling errors on the sheets and reupload them. As for the Formoat, for the sheets, The Word format was neccessary since they use a lot of autoshapes, if I could do PDF, I would, but I don't have Adobe Acrobat or the money to get it.

[ChapinoMuse]

To Those who wonder what the UPS is, (I just really love that acronym), here it is.

[Belac]

I just looked at it. It's better than I expected. I suppose if I added two blanks for combat stats, I could use it for Elite.

Some pretty good ideas, but I doubt anyone will use it unless you give them a reason. (Now, if you for some reason wanted to set up a character discussion forum or something that involved showing characters from different systems, it might be useful then, but then again those forums generally aren't popular either.)

It is a bit of decent inspiration for game designers as its another character sheet that focuses on something besides stats, which helps offset the majority that do focus on stats.

On the other hand, I tend to play characters that keep their secrets...secret, and I'd probably rather not write down certain character information on the main sheet where its easily seen.

-Belac the Spectral Rambler

[Belac]

You can put boxes and shapes like that in HTML, and a lot more people can read HTML on their computers. Just a thought. You'd need to know HTML or have a friend who could do it for you though.

[ChapinoMuse]

Well, yeah, the availability of Word on other computers at first troubled me, but then I made a sdiscalimer on my site saying if you don't have it download the free viewer from MS which isn't big, and will get use out of it if oyou down;oad all my stuff. And Now I can use word a for a lot more other downloads like fanfics and what not, and make them pretty. Well, the UPS wasn't made for any system, it could be used as a companion with your typical chrachter sheet, you only use the fields you want, or you could build mini rules around it, it's just sheet, but I think it could serve some purpose.

[ChapinoMuse]

And I know html, and lot of other things, I'm ok with Word, theirs a free viewerr, and people can edit it to their likeing if they have word, so satisfaction can partly be gauranteed.

[ChapinoMuse]

Ok, I don't feel like starting another thread for a simple question, so what's your favorite charachter sheet ever. Do you use them? or do you use oanother method.

[Andrew Martin]

I usually use a pad of blank paper. Each sheet becomes a customised character sheet for that character. For characters that are more interesting, I use eText to generate HTML character sheets complete with all character attributes, so that the GM can link it into his site. I'm considering putting together eText to PDF software, so that I can have a PDF file and a very nicely printed out character sheet. I've used a variety of word processor programs, but they tend to generate inflated disk files, which offends my sensibilities. Lately, for Zero System, I've been playing around with 3x5" index cards, and seeing how that works for characters. I'll try it out for NPCs, places, tools and so on later.

For Rolemaster/Spacemaster, our players use a sheet from our group's custom printed pads, or use a spreadsheet program and print out a sheet for skills.

For Gurps, we use a special program, that was bought by the GM.

For Ironclaw, we photocopy the character sheet in the back of the rulebook, or simply use a blank or lined sheet of paper.

For AD&D, we designed and assembled several character sheet and mass-produced them in a variety of formats, using a photocopier (It was before cheaply available PCs).

[ChapinoMuse]

That's cool, for Mage, I stuffed into my scanner and spat some copies, which due to the location of my prineter ripped the back page of the book :(. As for Exalted and Werewolf, by then we wisened up and downloaded them WW's site and printed them out, I have all the WoD sheets on my pc, only if I can find charachter creation rules on them, cause if it sound cool enoguh, i'll hunt down the books, for the exception of wraith. Well, anyone know if thier is a Wraith quickstart guide anywhere since I can't buy the book anymore. Or quickstart for any of the other WoD games other than changeling.

[Theophage]

Originally posted by ChapinoMuse
And I know html, and lot of other things, I'm ok with Word, theirs a free viewerr, and people can edit it to their likeing if they have word, so satisfaction can partly be gauranteed.

And yet, everyone who want to view your character sheet already has an html viewr...its not something they need to get in addition (free or not).

I would STRONGLY suggest changing your sheet into html format using tables for the nifty boxes. Heck you can even put in an outstanding background graphic as well...

If you simply don't have the time or inclination to change your sheet to html, write me at theophage@geocities.com and I'll do it for you.

[ChapinoMuse]

Well, I know html, and if I was lazy i could use frontpage, but circles are are not doable and it wouldn't feel write, I might see if I can find out how to make PDF's, how do you, then I'll do that.

[donalfall]

When is to much too much?

When it there is stuff on the sheet irrelevant to the style of game the RPG encourages... I always thought income was stupid in CoC, 'finstance. I run CoC for the horror of the outer things invading Earth's real estate, not the horror of the low bank balance.

What is the bare minimum?

Stats & Skills? Name is probably handy.

What should be avoided?

Excessive borders, background imagery, anything that makes it harder to read. Clutter. And for games where you do involve bank balances, a very tiny gold and equipment section. Erasers eventually take out even the best paper. Oh, and small XP boxes too. Same reason.

Should Sheet be made for other facets of the game?

Yes - if its imprtant. If it's unimportant, blank paper is also good.

What You think of the UPS?

Okay. Not entirely necessary. I also like Character secrets to be in my head, depending on the character. I wouldn't use it, and I don't think most people would.

PDF is a pretty easy format to work in. I do recommend it. However, Word IS pretty universal. HTML is more universal.

donalfall

[ChapinoMuse]

WHat program crates PDF's and how much does it cost?

[Andrew Martin]

ChapinoMuse wrote:
> What program creates PDF's and how much does it cost?

Try searching the net at: http://www.google.com for "PDF". Try: http://www.adobe.com, and look for Adobe Acrobat. There's also a few free systems on the web, which I'm sure you'll find if you're persistent.

[NPC Whymme]

I just wonder why you think that I'd go through all the trouble of downloading a Word viewer, just so that I have the opportunity to look at a character sheet. You want to know what people think of your UPS, therefore you should make it as easy as possible for those people to see it. Downloading an application so that I can see it is way too much trouble for me. Downloading a PDF might already be too much. The easiest way to do it is to put it on your site, so that people can see it by just following a link. If you make it any more difficult, you'll get fewer people who go and view the thing, and thus fewer people who would want to comment on it.

Whymme

Originally posted by ChapinoMuse
Well, yeah, the availability of Word on other computers at first troubled me, but then I made a sdiscalimer on my site saying if you don't have it download the free viewer from MS which isn't big, and will get use out of it if oyou down;oad all my stuff. And Now I can use word a for a lot more other downloads like fanfics and what not, and make them pretty. Well, the UPS wasn't made for any system, it could be used as a companion with your typical chrachter sheet, you only use the fields you want, or you could build mini rules around it, it's just sheet, but I think it could serve some purpose.

[NPC Chapino]

Argh, Everytime I log on, i go click one thing and I'm logged off again, anyonelse having this problem!!!

[NPC Balbinus]

When I look at a character sheet I want it to be clean, I don't mean just as in no coffee stains, I mean easy to read.

So, cool graphic designs and fonts annoy me, little tables to fill in which don't leave enough space bug me, vast quantities of wasted margin space leaving everything else kind of cramped is a pain.

The Character sheet in the 3e PHB is to me a great example of a bad character sheet. The CoC sheet is a great one, easy to find your way around and everything where you need it.

My absolute pet hate though is games which have the name of the game in huge letters on the sheet. What? I'm going to forget what game I'm playing? OtE is guilty of this, I know I'm playing OtE, I don't need it written in 80 point font on the front of the sheet.

Never more than 2 sides of A4 either, if you need more than that (including equipment and background notes) then the game's too complex.

[NPC Chapino]

What does A4 mean?

[Crayne]

Originally posted by NPC Chapino
What does A4 mean?

Balbinus: I think the US has another name for the same paper size.

Chapino: A4 is a standard size for paper (21 cm x 29,7 cm) in Europe. There are a lot more sizes (all with the A prefix).

A3 is two sheets of A4 together
A4 is standard
A5 is one half A4

See?

[Godfather Punk]

to what the US Letter standard is.

A4 = 210mm x 297mm

GP -

[Crayne]

Originally posted by crayne
There are a lot more sizes (all with the A prefix).

Right, that's a load of monkey feces.

There are lots of different paper sizes, not all of them starting with an A. *sigh* :confused:

Crayne

[Kergillian]

I'd like to focus for a moment on the D&D character sheet. I choose it because it's so prevalent, that almost everyone has had some exposure to it.

I agree with Balbinus, I don't like the one in the PHB. I've never used it. However, there are a number of sheets I have used that are similar.

First, everything gets cramped on the sheet. Now, that's more a fault of the system than of the sheet, since there are so many details that need to be recorded.

My major gripes with the sheet are:

-The skill list. In the PHB version, it's all blank. There's too many slots for someone to fill with skills, and too much information that needs to be entered. I prefer sheets where the all the skills are filled in. What would be really useful is a sheet that only lists out all the skills that can be used unskilled, and lets you fill in any of the trained-only blank slots below it. It's probably the easiest way to keep track of what your character can or can't do.

-Racial and class abilities are filled in on the back side, along with feats. These are action specialties. They should be listed on the front of the sheet.

-Movement is kept far away from encumbrance info. There is not as much that can be done here, though; I'll explain why in a bit.

-Spell list info both takes up too much space and is too cramped to be of use. Once again, there's a bit of a system design problem, but this is one time that I'd use an extra sheet for the spell book.

Good things about the sheet:

-Most action specialties are on the front side. The front of the sheet, after basic info (Name, race, class) should be filled with all the information one needs during a fast-paced action sequence. The front of the sheet has ability scores, HP, AC, BAB, Initiative, Saves, Movement, Skills, Weapon stats, and Armor stats. For the most part, there will be very little flipping and searching the sheet for info during combat. The back side of the sheet should contain items that become useful once the action dies down. Info like other equipment, encumberance, money, experience, and other details belong back here.

-Not much dead space. Margins filled with information-carrying organization space.

Thoughts?

[ChapinoMuse]

Okies, this topic has been very informative, hehe, all the question asking really help fuel the creative mind.