Tell me about Passion Play

[Random Goblin]

Is it good?

Have you read through the rules? Have you actually played it?

[twist_nack]

I've read it, and I like it. I haven't gotten to see it in action yet, but I'm currently planning on running it the fall.

It has a simple set of rules for any method of getting information out of someone, which I find refreshing in a larp. The system is fairly simple over all. The combat rules could be a little simpler, but even they aren't too hard to learn.

The only real problem I have is a lack of errata. During my readings I've had a few rules questions, and I haven't been able to find any answers on-line. But part of that has to do with preference to find the answer as oppose to asking someone who might know.

[Attila-IV]

I've been running Passion Play off and on for the past 2 years. The setting (Fading Suns) is excelent. The rules are overall good. There are a few flaws, but the good parts make up for them.

Task and challenge resolution is pretty simple. An action (such as picking a lock or repairing an engine) has a difficulty rating assigned by the GM. You find the most apropriate Tally on your sheet, and if it equals or exceeds the difficulty you succeed. If your Tally falls short you can still succeed by roleplaying the challenge for a number of minutes equal to the difference between the difficulty and your tally. If you are taking action against another character the character with the highest apropriate Tally succeeds.

There are two types of Tally. You your attribute tallys (Tech, Dexterity, Faith etc.) are fairly passive. Then you have your Skill Tallys. These are far more active and useful in play than your attributes. The primary skills are fairly broud (Lockpick, Firearms, Tech Redemption), but may have a varying number of Mieters, which are effectivley specialties that you add to your skill to determine your overall Tally.

Character Creation:
Character creation is almost identicle to the table top version. You can iether micromanage your points to create just the character you want, or you can create a character by assigning premade skill and advantage packages based on the events of their early life.

Combat:
Like most LARP rules, the combat rules arn't that good. In addition to combat skills, a character may also have a number of combat manuvers that give them some bonus in a fight, such as the abuility to fire first in a round, or wield two weapons at once. My group has never used the full combat rules. We've boiled it down to pantomiming your combat actions, comparing applicable tallies, and assigning damage.

The Occult:
The rules for Psionic and Theurgic powers are excelent. The Occult section is filled with excelent notes on how to better role play the occult. It even has a chart that a Theurgist can used to create prayers in latin when performing a ritual. Not all the psi and theurgic powers from the Fading Suns rule book are included. However, we have found it incredibly easy to create new powers when needed. Antinomy, Hexery and Changed biomodifications can be easily adapted to Passion Play.

Social Interaction:
Like MeT, Passion play has rules for social interaction. Specificly 20 Questions (a method of gathering information) and Social Contracts (rules for forging fare and unfare bargains). I can't comment on the usefulness of the 20 Questions rules as my players have only invoked them once in the past 2 years. As written, the system is a little clunky, but I dont see why it would not work with the right group. The Social Contract rules work well if you treat them more like guidelines than hard rules.

Setting Material:
Passion Play has far more setting material than any other LARP book I have purchased. And it's all good. The only downside is that while it gives a short description for all the alien races in the Fading Suns setting, it only provides rules for 2 (the Ukar and Obun). Stats on some of the more humanoid aliens (Gannok and Hyronym for instance) would have been welcome. Thankfuly these aliens should not be too hard to adapt to the system. The developers of Passion Play have several excelent reasons for not including rules for playing a Vorox, but my challenge still stands. If someone can make a workable Vorox costume, I will allow them to play a Vorox in one of my games with no questions asked.

There is also a loveley section of social interaction in the Known Worlds. This includes guidelines for how to display Rank (an aspect of Passion Play that has proven to be very important) on your costume as well as a look at the internal social interactions of each of the 15 core factions. This section is likely to be valuable to table top players as well as larpers. Although it is likely that some of this material has apeared in some form in other Fading Suns sourcebooks.

Wyrd:
This is the fun part. Wyrn, represented by Wyrn Cards, is essential Passion Play's luck mechanic. Wyrd can be spent for luck effects and to fuel occult powers. Normaly one can only gain Wyrn cards at the start of a session or through exceptional role playing. Occultists may regain Wyrn at the cost of aquiring Urge and Hubris. You can spend any number of wyrd cards on any one at any time. There are 4 types of Wyrd.
•Good Luck - Instant success, no questions asked.
•Back Luck - Instant failure, no questions asked.
•Accent - Basicly gives you an edge, but not much of one.
•Death's Door - A get out of jail free card. If you're character needs his ass saved this is the card for you.
The last Wyrd card spent is the one that takes effect, and the more cards spent the bigger the effect becomes.
Wyrd can realy liven up a game. But don't expect Wyrd cards to be used sparingly. In my experience, the moment 1 Wyrd card is played 4 more will be played to counter it. Thankfuly there are some players subtle enough to play their Wyrd cards in secret. In one shot games it is also fairly common for many characters to save their Wyrd for the climax. This hasen't proven to be a problem, but there are some potential abuses. Unlike most of the other rules, the use of Wyrd cards almost always requires GM involvement.

Presentation:
It's a good looking book. The graphic design is toned down and the photographs (there are no illustrations) give you a real feeling for what you can do with costumes and set dressing. The only real critisism I have with the look of the book is that a couple of photos have been photoshopped to include faction icons and somewhat cheesy visual effects. Thankfuly this isn't too destracting.

Any questions?

[angelicmadrigal]

I have never played but would LOVE to. Fading Suns is my all time favorite setting.

[Redfeild]

I bought this book at ICC 2001. What little I read of it, it looked real good. Alas, I went with the rest of my LARP books durring my great gaming purge. Now I wish I still had it along with my Cthulhu Lives. :(

[Levi]

The Social Contract rules work well if you treat them more like guidelines than hard rules.

Could you explain these a bit? They sound interesting.

[Attila-IV]

The Social Contract rules work well if you treat them more like guidelines than hard rules.

Could you explain these a bit? They sound interesting.


Contracts:
It basicly comes down to this. 2 characters enter into a "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" sort of agreement. The characters can then fine tune the agreement by pulling rank, using apropriate skills or using social status (or even bribery) in order to make their side of the agreement easier to fulfill, or the other side of the agreement harder to fulfill. After this point the characters are obligated to carry out the agreement.

Example:
Baron Dominic is having some economic trouble. He has a handful of debts that are acumulating interest that he would like to pay off. Dean Tachibana, a wealthy merchant in the Charioteer's Guild, knows Dominic needs some cash. The two get to talking and and start working out an agreement.
Baron Dominic: I know you would like to see Darius Hawkwood humiliated. I'll challenge him to a duel if you pay off my debts.
Dean Tachibana: Baron, I'de be willing to help you pay off your debts.
(A Charioteer Dean outranks a Hazat Baron, so Tachibana decides to pull rank so he does not have to hand over any real money to the Baron)
Dean Tachibana: How about this? Challenge Darius to a duel, and I'll put in a good word with Frederic Whindholm (a high ranking Reeve) to hold off on collecting on your loans?
It's the best deal the Baron is likely to get, so they agree.

Both participants can back out of the negotiations at any time, but once the final deal is struck both are obligated to fulfill their half of the agreement. Should one of the participants fail to fulfill their end of the deal for any reason they are branded an Oathbraker and can no longer initiate Contracts on their own. In order to loose their Oathbraker status they need to perform some deed (often a Contract that puts the Oathbraker at a real disadvantage) that proves their trustworthyness.

If the system presented in the book is followed to the letter it does open up some real potential for abuse. A high ranking character could send low ranking characters on arrands just short of suicide missions. Our group has a house rule to prevent this kind of abuse called "Peasant Revolts". With this house rule several low ranking characters can gang up on a high ranking character and strip him of his social status by exposing him as a tyrant and powermonger. The potential threat of a peasant revolt reminds the high ranking characters not to become tyrants, or to at least be machiavelian enough to keep the lower ranking characters from moving against them.

[Morticutor UK]

Our group has a house rule to prevent this kind of abuse called "Peasant Revolts".

OK, this I'm interested in. So, how do you work that one? (I'm guessing you've playtested and tweaked it already, which is why I'm asking and not working it out for myself - well, that and not having a group to work it with)

[Attila-IV]

OK, this I'm interested in. So, how do you work that one?


Here's how our Peasant Revolt system works. It work by pooling the ranks of the downtrodden against the rank of a tyrant (defined as anyone taking unfare advantage of their Rank when using contracts and otherwise using the rules to throw their waight around). The people engaged in the revolt pick a ringleader (usualy the person of highest rank). The ringleader publicly anounces that there is a revolt and who the target of the revolt is. The ringleader is encouraged to make some form of inspiring speach to win others to the cause. Anyone participating in the revolt comes forward at this time. If no one joins the ringleader in the revolt, then the revolt fails and the ringleader will likely face some form of reprocussion. Take the rank of the ringleader and add 1 for each additional participant in the revolt. If the total exceeds the Rank of the tyrant, then the revolt is successful. The tyrant's rank is reduced by a number of levels equal to the diference between the score of the revolt and tyrant's original rank. Should the tyrant's rank fall to zero or less the revolting mob can pretty much kill the tyrant without any real fear of reprocussion (unless the tyrant had some extreemly close allies), but a sporting mob would give the tyrant a running start and a chance at exile. If the tyrant still has a positive rank he may stay in power, but he cannot initiate social contracts or regain his lost levels of rank until he redeems himself in a manner similar to an oathbraker. If the tyrant had any existing Contract, the other parties may back out at this time without fear of consequences.

As far as how this system works in play, I am afraid I can't comment. While we have had this house rule for a while now, no one has ever called for a Revolt. We almost had it used against a Charioteer captain in the form of a mutiny, but the captain shaped up.

As written, it would be possible for a character of high rank to call a Revolt on a lower ranking character and outright stip that character of their social standing. This has never come up in any of our games, so I can't fairly say if this would be a problem or not. Anyone who did this more than once would likely find themselves the targed of a Revolt.

[Morticutor UK]

Hmm, I like. I might have to try this one.

[Packrat]

How does the rank thing actually work out in practise? I mean it became quickly obvious in my (none LARP) playing of Fading Suns that noble rank is effectively more meaningful than church or guild rank, certainly in the low and medium levels.

A knight might have 'rank' 3, the same as a guild associate, but can probably afford to hire several of said guild associates as their lackies, and has vastly more legal and social status. A baronet is rank 5, the same as a guild chief or a canon.. But is quite likely to hold a small fief. The ranks do not seem to mesh across well given that a corresponding noble rank is normally Icly less numerous but also higher status.

Of course this is less of an issue at higher ranks, a baron might well have to deal carefully with a Muster lieutenant. Sure the baron might have his company of regulars, the Musterman has his platoon of hardened veteran mercenaries and likely influence over labor markets. An Earl has to deal with a charioteer captain on good terms because while sure, the Earl might have his own starship or three, he wants to be able to continue hiring decent pilots for them and does not want his shipments of off world luxuries stopped if he wants to maintain his social status and the economy of his fiefs.

[Morticutor UK]

How does the rank thing actually work out in practise?

Ok, here's how I see it and would implement it in a game.

Nobles rule. They own a land and the serfs in it, who provide both taxes (to run the fief's administration) and a peasant army for defence. The noble controls lawmaking and taxation, retains knights for warfare, fights bandits/invaders, etc. Essentially they administer their state.

Guilders own businesses. They're skilled and keep those skills secret (unless you're a Cartel shill for the Decados), partially to keep them unique and valuable. Although they have money, and money brings power, they're generally excluded from the kind of power that comes with birthright.

The Church wields moral authority in a universe where you can expect to go to Gehennungap if you're bad. Their power comes in wielding their authority as the mouth of the Pancreator in a world were excommunition means something.

It's all different. A noble has land and serfs, but the cool stuff (starship manufacturing, for example, is beyond them) because a) business is below them and b) the Guilds would never let it happen. He wields the law and taxes, but a quick guild blockade would weaken his resolve to get all excessive with them. Likewise, as much as a priest may come under his temporal rule, its spiritual monopoly gives it a let-out and an authority to criticise him and weild authroty over serfs - something few others could get away with.

With regard to specific ranks, I usually treat it at a general level of influence, as land and wealth come from other Benefices. A Baronet gets invited to parties because...well, he's a baronet and his social standing gets him in with his peers and those below him. Same with a Guilder of equivalent rank- it grants him influence over his respective social segment, who fulfil a certain role in the Empire's society.

[Attila-IV]

How does the rank thing actually work out in practise? I mean it became quickly obvious in my (none LARP) playing of Fading Suns that noble rank is effectively more meaningful than church or guild rank, certainly in the low and medium levels.


Rules wise all the equivelant ranks are equal. A rank 3 noble is on equal standing with a rank 3 guild member is on equal standing with a rank 3 priest. If the players want property and special skills and additional social standing (special athority or presteage from past acomplishments) they actualy have to purchase them.

Who's rank is more meaningful comes down to context. We've done a few games that take place entirely abourd charioteer starships, and the charioteers took advantage of that. They considered themselves in charge because it was their ship, and without their skills the ship would zip about out of control and life support would brake down. They still acted in a civil manner to the noble passengers, but if a rank 4 noble made an unreasonable request of a rank 2 charioteer they would get a quick, "Sorry, That violates guild operating procedure" and that was it.

In the other hand, we did a game where 5 factions attempted to claim the same 2nd republic artifact, and after the first 15 minutes everyone pretty much stopped giving a damn who represented what faction and how hight up they were. People wanted the mcguffin and rank be hanged.

[Packrat]

The problem is that mechanically and cost in character generation wise a rank 3 guilder, church member or noble are supposedly 'the same rank', but going by the setting that does not seem to carry across.

A rank 3 noble is a knight, most laws do not apply to them, they can pretty much expect to be given a lieutenant's rank in a military by joining it, or administer a village or town for a more powerful lord etc.

A rank 3 priest is a novitiate.. They are under church rather than secular law, they have some spiritual influence, but lets be honest, they are a novitiate, they are not even a canon. There are going to be a -ton- of novitiates in any religious organization each with every little actual influence over anything. If anything they seem to better map across to the rank 1 'householder' level of the noble rank structure.

A rank 3 guilder is an 'associate', legally they are a freeman, if covered by the privaledge of martyrs and with the benefit of being a full guild member to mean people are not going to go after them without reason. I tend to imagine associates tend to be put in charge of small teams of Guild licensed workers rather than being the rank and file on anything apart from the highest prestigue projects, but again, it comes across that there are going to be a lot more in the way of associates around than their are knights, if perhaps fewer than their are novitiates.


As I said before this is lnot an issue with higher ranks (a bishop has MAJOR influence over damn near anyone), but at lower ones the ranks as defined by the number simply do not seem to indicate even very broadly equivelent positions in society. I honestly do not see low ranking guilders or priests having sufficient sway in their organizations to compensate for things like the very real and subsantial advantages a noble gets from their legal near immunity and fuedal ties.

[Attila-IV]

Thats up to the GM.