Help needed - Use of randomisers in LARP?

[Tetsuki]

Hi,

I'm working on a project at the moment, and I've come against a bit of a brick wall.

It's a social interaction game, and I want to be able to run it as a LARP as well as a tabletop game. However, there's a conflict resolution system, and it currently requires each involved player to stake 'authority' tokens and roll a single D6.

I'm OK with the tokens, but the rolling feels a bit wrong for LARP. The random result bit is quite important, so I'm wondering if any more experience LARPers have any good ideas for generating random results less.... intrusively.

So far, all I've got is 'Rock-Paper-Scissors', which gets messy when there is more than one player involved.

Any thoughts?

- Doug

[weaponofchoice]

This is essentially the same as rolling a dice, but might appeal more to the LARP atmosphere; you have a bag of coloured beads, stones, whatever and the player reaches in to take one. Red equals a 6, blue a 5 etc.

If you've set the game so that you're using tokens this might feel more in tune with that than rolling dice. It would require a ref to be alongside the players when they make this 'roll' but i don't know if this would be a problem.

I've seen this work well in determining things like wounds, healing etc and other magic systems.

Hope its helpful.

[Levi]

Paper-rock-scissors, but instead of a sign, each player shows one to five fingers.

Add them up. If the total is higher than five, subtract five.

That's a random generator for 1-5.

[PeterAmthor]

We have used decks of cards before. If you need numbers in a certian range just remove the cards that aren't in that range. Also some party supply stores have novelty card decks that are really small so they are less intrusive.

[salamanca]

Cards work, the bead idea is great.

When I designed the LARP system for 7th sea, I used a set of stats and some tokens to use as bids to increase your total thus removing the "random" nature of dice but maintianing the chances of either side winning the test. It's a system that does work just fine for LARP play. All you really need is to make the bid a secret blind bid so neither side knows how many points are being added and remove any tokens used so the players have to think about how important every check is.

[Kamard]

Paper-rock-scissors, but instead of a sign, each player shows one to five fingers.

Add them up. If the total is higher than five, subtract five.

That's a random generator for 1-5.

Each player shows zero to (five) ten fingers. You take the difference.

Generator for 0 to (5) 10.

[Graham W]

You could use tossing coins. The advantage of this is that the coins can be the tokens: so the token that the players are staking is also the thing that does the randomising. It saves the players carrying lots of things about.

Graham

[Levi]

Each player shows zero to (five) ten fingers. You take the difference.

Generator for 0 to (5) 10.

Not fully random, though. I can consistently limit the result by choosing a number in the middle.

[Peter Svensson]

Have everyone wear a watch and use the seconds as a way to generate a random number between 1 and 10.

[Tetsuki]

Thanks to everyone for the excellent replies so far.

Alas, I should have been more specific about the 'each player roll D6' thing, because this needs to be a simultaneous roll (the numbers are compared). This may rule a couple of the options out.

I like the coin toss idea, as it reduces the number of items in play. Since I was thinking of using poker chips to track authority, I could make use of the fact that these already come in different numbers/colours.

Tell you what, here was the original idea using D6:

- In a social challenge, each of the players in the challenge stakes tokens to get their way. Bidding is like 'no limit' poker, you can raise, call or fold. Players can always go 'all in' by bidding everything they have.

- Only after the two challengers have finished bidding, other players (bystanders) may 'take sides'. This only costs them one token, regardless of the size of the original bets. All tokens are added to a central 'pot'.

- Once sides have been chosen, all players roll D6. Highest score wins for their side. A bystander can win for a challenger. However, the winning challenger always takes the whole of the pot. They may reward the people who supported them or not, at their sole discretion.

- If the original roll is a tie, then challengers may bid again to raise the stakes (as long as no-one has gone all in). Bystanders must pay another token to support, and may change sides. Once this has been done, roll again.

The key thing here is that support makes a hell of a difference, especially when the stakes are high. Plus the winner has the option to shaft their followers by not rewarding them.

Now I'm thinking that for LARP, each player could hold their tokens in a bag, and these tokens could have 1-6 (or other numbers) written on them. Bids are made verbally, but to support, you have to place a token in the bag of the player you are supporting.

To 'roll', one token is drawn from each player's bag, plus one for each supporter. Highest single token showing wins.

Does this sound easier than rolling? And does it feel natural, or is all the bidding going on a bit much?

[Graham W]

This sounds nice. Yes, it does sound easier than rolling in a LARP; and the bidding might take a while but it's not necessarily bad.

To clarify: the winner takes the tokens bid by the loser, doesn't he? If the loser bid three tokens, does that mean that the winner selects any three tokens he wants from the loser's bad? Or does he draw three of the loser's tokens at random?

Similarly, if I win and I want to reward a supporter, can I give them any token I want (for example, can I deliberately give them a low token)? Or can they choose any token? Or must they choose a token randomly from my bag?

By writing numbers on the tokens, you're entering an interesting area. For example, if I win a challenge and get three very low-level tokens, then that's good and bad. On the one hand, I can bid more tokens; on the other, I stand more chance of winning.

By the way, I'm using a sort of similar system for my Meat Loaf LARP. It uses playing cards instead of tokens, but there's some similarities. Have a look at this <a href="http://www.story-games.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=610"> this thread on Story Games</a> if you're interested.

Graham

[Tetsuki]

Graham,

I haven't decided yet which tokens get won. But I want to avoid the 'Top Trumps' problem where someone cannot be run down to no tokens (cards) as they have a single unbeatable token.

In other words, if the highest token in the game is a '6', then no-one can beat it. So if my only token is a '6' you can't win it off me.

Two ways I can think of to address this:

1) Winner takes tokens at random from the loser. I'm still unbeatablw with my single '6', but when I win a challenge, I may lose the draw, and get my high token taken away by the random pull.

2) The challenge result is the sum of the tokens pulled, not the highest one. So ganging up on someone with higher tokens will still work.

And I think the winner should get to choose which tokens to reward their supporters. If they keep shilling their low tokens out, then they won't get support in the future. I want to encourage politicking.

By the way, this idea grew out of my 2005 Game Chef submission, 'The Dinner Party'. As a legendary feedback provider to that competition, you may find that interesting!

Thanks again,

Doug

[sean2099]

This is actually pretty enlightening. When I have done the occasional larp, it was always rock, paper, scissors. I like the idea of tokens or cards as randomisers. I don't see playing poker but I could see someone fishing out a card or token from their pocket or bag and adding the results to their skill or power rating. IMO, the cards or token seem like a good "bridge" for first time LARPers familiar with tabletop rpgs.

Sean2099