[EVE] Damn this looks cool! [Archive]

Black Isis

06-12-2006, 02:49 PM

I've always described Eve as Tradewars on steroids, if you ever played the old BBS door game. The thing to remember is that Eve is not so much a game like WoW as a giant sandbox in which you can do your own thing and find a way for yourself. There's no leveling up, and it would take you literally years on end to actually train up EVERY skill in the game, so there's much more niche protection than in WoW or other MMOs -- it's much easier to be really good at one thing than to try to be a generalist, whether that's mining, industry, combat, trading, exploring, or whatever you want to do. On the other hand, it is possible to be a generalist (I sort of am), but you need to be aware that you'll be at a disadvantage compared to someone who specializes (but then, you're a lot more flexible too). Players can build ships, space stations, outposts, weapons and other equipment, and operate their own empires in 0.0 (uncivilized) space, some of which have more systems in them than the NPC empires (but considerably less population).

There's a healthy roleplaying community, though you might have a hard time finding it at first (read the Intergalactic Summit forum on the eve-online.com forums to see who the big movers and shakers are, even if you don't read the other forums), but there's also your usual bunch of leet d00ds and internet assmonkeys as well, and it can be really frustrating to deal with them because PvP is a big part of Eve (and it's not consentual, at least in that your corporation could be wardecced or you could be attacked in low security space at any time). That makes it all the sweeter when you triumph against a good opponent though.

The game is complex -- overwhelmingly so, if you try to just dive in and devour every scrap of information you can find. The market and combat are the two most complex systems, although PvE is not that hard to get the hang of, and if you can find a good corporation, you can learn the ropes of everything else without getting shoved into the deep end from the start. Because of the skill training system (you can train skills even when not online), the usual levelling treadmill of MMOs isn't there, but money and player experience can be big factors in your success -- but you can have fun even on a casual playing basis if you're in a good corporation.

Oh....and boy is Eve pretty. The ships, the stations, the planets, the nebula backgrounds, the weapon effects....oh yeah. So very very pretty. And the game is 3 years old now and undergoing a graphical upgrade in the near future. And, even better, all the content expansions for the game are free -- once you're paying your subscription, you don't have to plunk down another 40 bucks to get an expansion before you can fly those spiffy new ships and fly to those new regions.

AusJeb

06-12-2006, 02:55 PM

Now if they would only release a Mac version.

bubbles

06-12-2006, 03:03 PM

For maximum EVE coolness, check out the videos (http://myeve.eve-online.com/download/videos/) on the homepage.

As regards why it is cool... 5,000 (I think) habitable systems, hundreds of ships, thousands (probably) of bits of equipment, endless combinations...

No levelling or grinding, if you don't want to. You are continuously training skills even when offline, so you don't have to spend hours mining one belt to be any good at mining.

No instances or shards - everyone is on the same server at the same time, with all the benefits and drawbacks that has.

Basically, it's like a giant sandbox, in space, and with more lasers. Basically, everything Black Isis said.

If you want, PM me your email address and I'll send you a 14-day trial...

:D

Black Isis

06-12-2006, 03:04 PM

By the way, those of you thinking of playing or already playing, make sure you join the RPGNET channel in game -- I try to be there all the time now. Make sure you say hi too, so the window flashes and I know someone's there. I'm Svetlana Scarlet in the game.

BlakeT

06-12-2006, 07:46 PM

Now if they would only release a Mac version.

Yep, I'd give it another try if they had a Mac client. I'm pretty much stopping getting into PC games, as I hate having to ask the wife if she would mind me playing game X on her machine. I bought an Apple for a reason. :)

Octomon

06-13-2006, 09:46 AM

Wow, there's an RPGNET channel? I'll be there straight after work. I've just started Eve and I really like it. I'll be bugging you people for advice pretty soon.

Black Isis

06-13-2006, 10:25 AM

There is, but the population is kind of low lately, which is why I said people should join if they are playing.

Chunga

06-13-2006, 04:38 PM

Bubbles, clear out your PM box. ;)

bubbles

06-13-2006, 06:10 PM

Bubbles, clear out your PM box. ;)
Oops!

OK, carry on :)

EDIT: I was going to be smart and send your invite to the address you've kindly given for MSN, but it seems the server is down anyway.

Snoopy

06-14-2006, 12:32 PM

Darting Flea

06-14-2006, 05:04 PM

I dont play but I just like the fact that it has real player driven RP politics not just guild trash talking.

You can also be a space pirate which is prety damn cool.

bubbles

06-14-2006, 05:39 PM

Grrr... I downloaded the client a couple of days ago, and haven't had time to play it until today, when I fired it up and... it was the wrong version. I'd got 3903, and since I got that, the server has upgraded to 3913, and (more fun) there isn't a patch from 3903 to 3913, so I have to download the whole client (550mb) again.

And it keeps failing within 5 minutes or so. Grr...
Damn that's annoying... which link are you following? Because the download here (http://www.eve-online.com/download/) should give you the most up-to-date version of the client.

Black Isis

06-14-2006, 10:01 PM

Stephenls

06-14-2006, 11:08 PM

I feel sort of guilty about vocally introducing RPGnet to EVE Online, especially since I stopped playing after deciding it's... flawed... in a bunch of unfixable ways. (Mostly relating to how skills work, and the problem of working for a week to afford a spiffy new ship only to lose it to gate campers in a system you were sure was safe, gate campers with "I pod all nubs gbt WoW lol" in their bio.)

I'll wait for the next free-roaming space MMO. EverQuest unseated Ultima Online and was in turn unseated by WoW. EVE Online will be similarly unseated some day, and when the new one shows up I'll be in on the ground floor.

There are a lot of things awesome about EVE. It's a shame they're drowned out (for me) by all the suck.

Allon

06-14-2006, 11:18 PM

(Mostly relating to how skills work, and the problem of working for a week to afford a spiffy new ship only to lose it to gate campers in a system you were sure was safe, gate campers with "I pod all nubs gbt WoW lol" in their bio.)

Why are you flying a ship you can't afford to replace? :confused:

Stephenls

06-14-2006, 11:40 PM

Why are you flying a ship you can't afford to replace? :confused:

I wasn't.

That actually just happened to a friend of mine. Who I was trying to intruduce to the game. About three times.

And he wasn't flying ships he couldn't replace either. Still, having to replace ships over and over again because of the actions of players who have nothing but contempt for you because they've been playing two years longer than you have, and who you will never, ever overtake in terms of character competence doesn't start to get more fun no matter how many times it happens.

EVE's skill system encourages a broken social dynamic. The specific broken social dynamic in question (jerkwads who have been playing for a long time acting hostile to newbies) is present to some extent in every MMO, but EVE's system encourages it rather than trying to mitigate it. This is an advantage to CCP -- the jerkwad who's been playing for two years is far more likely to continue playing for two more than any given newbie he chases away -- but, well, not having played for two years, I find it difficult to work up enthusiasm for a game run by a company that sees the loss of my business as worth it if it helps retain the business of the jerkwad.

The other guy, who I mentioned got his ship shot a bunch of times, is also a huge Trade Wars 2000 fan. In conversations with him he mentioned that, on occasion, a Trade Wars 2000 game goes on for so long that one or two players attains an unbeatable advantage, and new players joining the game start lasting about five minutes before getting blown to smithereens. Typically, in a game of TW, when that happens the game is shut down, and a new game started.

The emergent behavior of EVE's in-game social dynamic is beginning to resemble that. In other MMOs, player churn keeps the problem down, but EVE is so effectively designed to minimize churn that old players never go away.

Call me if they ever get rid of clones and learning skills.

Olive

06-15-2006, 12:48 AM

From looking at the forums etc it seemed to me that the guilds seemed to have set up to help protect newbies and train them, and basically get them to a level that meant they could set out on their own.

Is this not the case? I know it's not perfect.

I'm not entirely sure how you could fix these issues in EVE without making it completely unrealistic and basically kinda lame like WoW. I like the fact that you have a semi-realistic economy etc in EVE.

Darting Flea

06-15-2006, 02:31 AM

Player driven sandbox MMOs. The developers give the player the power and freedom to influance and shape the gameworld (universe in this case). Players create factions and thus unify their power. The guildless newb is the least powerful player in the game.

It is what is so great about player driven MMOs and what makes them so hard for alot of people to like (especialy those who arn't enthused about using their power to shape others game experiences).

I am somewhat put off from Eve because of the design choice for skill learning. I don't like the fact that you can't easily catch up with the exisiting player base. However wouldn't let this put you off as far as I my understanding you can quickly become a specialist and thus become useful to your guild.

Stephenls

06-15-2006, 02:39 AM

From looking at the forums etc it seemed to me that the guilds seemed to have set up to help protect newbies and train them, and basically get them to a level that meant they could set out on their own.

Is this not the case? I know it's not perfect.

Some corps are like this. Other corps, including the ones that recruit the most aggressively, seem to desire newbies primarily as worker drones. I have heard multiple tales of people dissatisfied with their corp quitting and then subsequently being hunted down and hounded by corp griefers.

(The usual solution expressed for griefers is "Set a bounty on them," but a low bounty isn't likely to be taken up, and a high bounty is broken -- since there's no significant penalty for character death unless you've got expensive cybernetic implants, one of the best ways to get around a bounty is just have a friend kill you, collect the bounty, and split it with you. This doesn't work if the bounty is low enough that half of it wouldn't pay for a replacement clone, of course....)

I'm not entirely sure how you could fix these issues in EVE without making it completely unrealistic and basically kinda lame like WoW. I like the fact that you have a semi-realistic economy etc in EVE.

The EVE economy is great.

The biggest problem with EVE is the XP system as a whole. The second biggest problem with EVE is the learning skills. Fixing EVE would be a matter of first overhauling the XP system and second changing the geography a bit to add narrow high-sec transport corridors between major regions.

Possibly the XP system could by fixed by the simple expedient of removing the learning skills and altering the clone system so that you always lose at least half (or a quarter, or even an eighth) of your skill points upon character death. Unfortunately, such a move, while it would help mitigate the overwhelming advantage currently possessed by the long-time players, would also chase many older players away.

As I said, I think the best solution for me is just to wait for the next big vaguely EVE-ish MMO and get in on its ground floor, skipping EVE entirely. Maybe in the next one I'll be able to debark from my ship.

Darting Flea

06-15-2006, 05:40 AM

Good points

Possibly the XP system could by fixed by the simple expedient of removing the learning skills and altering the clone system so that you always lose at least half (or a quarter, or even an eighth) of your skill points upon character death. Unfortunately, such a move, while it would help mitigate the overwhelming advantage currently possessed by the long-time players, would also chase many older players away.

Eve already has a death penalty that hits the virtual wallet (purchasing new ships and using clones). Adding a penalty that damages ones learnt skills could possibly simultaniously both increase and decrease the brutality of the game. Increase it by making griefing newbs even more of an issue and less brutal as people would avoid fair conflicts in fear of gimping their character. Thus ganking becomes nastier and fair PvP becomes less attractive.

My solution would be to speed up the lower skill training times significantly so that a new player can become a mid level all round pilot quicker (say a couple of weeks). Older players will still retain their advantage but the power difference between someone playing for 2 years and someone playing for 2 months wont be as severe (say the equivelent of a lvl 35 vs 60 WoW character).

Snoopy

06-15-2006, 05:56 AM

Hrm....3913 isn't being deployed to Tranquility until next week. Are you sure you were trying to connect to Tranquility (the production cluster) and not Singularity (the test environment), Snoopy? You can choose from the two in a little pull down menu in the middle of the login screen. You want to make sure that Tranquility is the one you've selected to connect to.
It didn't get as far as allowing me a choice --- as soon as the EVE flag screen popped up with the nice little login options at the bottom, a message box popped up telling me I needed to upgrade. And yes, by default it was trying Tranquility.

Still, I've got the download manager working on getting me EVE_3913a, 67% done so far... *sigh*

bubbles

06-15-2006, 06:39 AM

EVE is the game that makes me switch sides in the whole PvP vs Carebear debate... I'll happily argue Carebear in something like WoW, because world PvP sucks in that game. PvP in EVE, however, I'm all in favour of.

First of all, to address that point that newbies are entirely at the mercy of hordes of evil PC pirates who strike on a whim and are unstoppable. Not quite true. You just have to be careful and think ahead. If you don't want to get podded at all, stay in high-sec space. You can still get killed in high-sec space but it's pretty much a suicide mission for whoever kills you, so it happens very rarely. If you must go through low-sec space, think about a) if you really need to go there at all, b) if you really need your current ship and cargo, c) is there a more secure route (assuming going through rather than to low-sec). If it's for a mission, decline the mission - you can do this without losing standing. Do you need your cargo hold? If not, travel in a shuttle or even your pod. Always always check your map - set it to show pod kills in the last hour and if any system is glowing bright yellow or red, don't go there (tip: avoid Egghelende at all costs).

I agree that there are problems with the game and that player pirating is not nice or fair. CCP have created a game where players can become extremely powerful to the extent that groups of them can take control of entire regions of space. However, it is a given that some people just want to act like jerks, and EVE gives them that power too. That doesn't mean we should tear down the entire system and start from scratch (although it would be interesting for the to create a second cluster and have everyone start again).

Anyway, most of the player base are cool, intelligent people. Compare the EVE forums to the WoW forums and see what I mean.

Black Isis

06-15-2006, 08:27 AM

Also, I would advise that if you are looking for a corp where you will not be just a worker drone or cannon fodder, look for a good roleplaying corp. Generally, these corporations (mine included) try to elevate the game and get their new recruits to a point where they know most of the basic knowledge you need about the game, and help them get cash flow going that will allow them to actually start taking chances; plus, they are a lot more fun to be in, if you ask me.

In general, I'll agree that PvP in Eve is harsh on new players, especially if you don't take the time to learn the basics of the game. If you go into low security space (sec rating 0.4 or below) the chance of you getting destroyed is certainly there, but it is avoidable. And yes, older players have a significant advantage, simply because their characters have higher skills. However, they are far from invulnerable. The biggest factor in any PvP fight is not character skill, but player skill. Knowing how to make the most of your assets. Granted, there's the annoying pirates that sit 150km off a gate and use ships fitted out for range and absolutely nothing else and snipe at people, but they can be beaten with a good group of antipirates.

For example, over the last few weeks, my alliance (and especially my corporation) has been conducting an antipirate operation in the Placid region, assisting the local corporations (especially our Intaki allies) in clearing pirates from what is usually a very lawless region. Most of our players do not have that much PvP experience, and by and large were not using ships that were that expensive (mostly cruisers with a smattering of tech 2 frigates and battleships). However, by working with a team and the help of a few more experienced players, our current fleet commander in the region has racked up as many as nineteen kills in one day, most of those being battleships or battlecruisers. It began to get so bad for the pirates that the local pirate corporations started trying to organize an alliance against us and our allies.

The biggest thing that is going to determine whether you have fun in Eve is if you have a good corporation. I quit playing twice before I finally found CAIN, and now I'm having much more fun. Don't make the same mistake I did and languish in a newbie corp forever or in mediocre corporations for months, trying to figure out what you want to do. Talk to people on the RPGnet channel, look at the Intergalactic Summit forum on www.eve-online.com to see if there are characters and corporations that interest you, and send them Evemail asking for more information. Most RP corporations and/or alliances have public channels where you can talk to their members and find out more about them, or just keep in touch with them. There's also a channel called "The Summit" which is basically a place for RP characters to kibbitz in-character.

If you aren't sure what you want to do with your character, the Eve University corporation may be a good idea too. It's a corporation specifically designed to help new characters get on their feet, and they conduct classes and also control a sector of 0.0 space. Once you've got the hang of things, you can either stay with EU, or join another corporation -- many of the "instructors" can actually recommend you a good corporation based on what you want to do.

Mister Unfortunate

06-15-2006, 12:19 PM

This sounds like a game I would either really love or really hate. Anyone got a free trial they can kick my way??

Black Isis

06-15-2006, 12:21 PM

This sounds like a game I would either really love or really hate. Anyone got a free trial they can kick my way??
https://secure.eve-online.com/ft/?sk=GHELL

That should do it for you. Keep in mind that it's a deep game and you probably won't get a good feel for it in just 2 weeks -- but if you hang out on the RPGnet channel and the others I mentioned, it should be a good start at least (you can always just try for a month and see how it goes).

Mister Unfortunate

06-15-2006, 12:53 PM

Thanks; I have the client downloading now, and I'll get started tonight after work. Maybe all that SF I've read will pay off...

Snoopy

06-15-2006, 01:27 PM

I keep hearing of an RPGnet channel, but where in the list of channels is it located? Cheers...

Black Isis

06-15-2006, 01:41 PM

I keep hearing of an RPGnet channel, but where in the list of channels is it located? Cheers...
The entire list of channels is not in the already-provided list; that just includes the ones the game provides basically. If you want to join another channel, open up the channel window by clicking on it in the menu, then click on "create/join" and type in the name of the channel (in this case "RPGnet" -- no quotes). Then it will open another chat frame for you in that channel. Thereafter, that channel will show up under the "player channels" header in the channels list. To be honest, most of the game-created channels are so spammy and noisy that it's hard to get much good out of them, but every once in a while you can get something useful out of them. Some other useful channels:

Eve University - Eve University's public channel. Good for helpful advice for newbies even if you aren't in the EU corporation.

The Summit - General RP kibbitizing in character. Most of the big players in the Eve RP scene will at least monitor this channel, so if you're looking to join an RP corp, this is a good place to track down one of their officers (or ask to find out who you should contact).

Various RP alliance/corp channels - Most of these are noted in the corporation or alliance description. They can be handy if you're looking for more information on RPing in that area or you're just looking for some help and you're interested in that race. A short list:

PlacidReborn - Intaki/Placid Region alliance public channel
CAINCOM - Caldari Independent Navy Reserve (my corp) public channel
DirectiveNet - Kimotoro Directive (Caldari RP alliance) public channel
Aegis Militia - Amarr paramilitary alliance public channel
PIE Public - Amarr paramilitary corporation public channel
Club Allure - "Virtual Bar" run by the Glamour Syndicate (generally Gallente) alliance

Those are just the few I use/know about -- there's even more if you ask around.

Paul B

06-15-2006, 02:05 PM

Olive

06-16-2006, 04:35 AM

Snoopy

06-16-2006, 05:17 AM

That's pretty much what I'm doing. My little-y is 2 and a half, and we take it in turns to look after him, so I play when he's busy/asleep... and occasionally in the evenings!

Black Isis

06-16-2006, 05:21 AM

So I've been meaning to get into EVE for a while, but I've got a (very) young kid and a wife who's at home. I figure that I need to have a bit where I'm by myself to give it a go. I'm going to be home next week when my wife is in NZ with the wee man. Is 7 days enough to give it a bit of a go?
YOu'll probably get a vague idea of what it's like, but I think it's hard to really get that great a picture of it in just a week. Still, there's a two week free trial, it won't cost you anything to find out (hey kid, first one's free.... :D ).

Olive

06-16-2006, 06:36 PM

That's pretty much what I'm doing. My little-y is 2 and a half, and we take it in turns to look after him, so I play when he's busy/asleep... and occasionally in the evenings!

My little one is 6 weeks tomorrow. So a lot but I do get snippets of time to myself and those are increasing a bit as we get used to it all. So I may as well try it out!

bubbles

06-16-2006, 06:57 PM

My little one is 6 weeks tomorrow. So a lot but I do get snippets of time to myself and those are increasing a bit as we get used to it all. So I may as well try it out!
PM me your email address and I'll send you a trial account... unless you already have one ;)

Olive

06-16-2006, 08:50 PM

PM me your email address and I'll send you a trial account... unless you already have one ;)

Thanks dude!

PM sent. I'm in China till Tuesday night so I figure I d/l over night on Tuesday and spend all wednesday playing around. I've been told that I need a few hours spare for set up and first training stuff right?

Black Isis

06-16-2006, 09:21 PM

Thanks dude!

PM sent. I'm in China till Tuesday night so I figure I d/l over night on Tuesday and spend all wednesday playing around. I've been told that I need a few hours spare for set up and first training stuff right?
You will want to be able to play for a couple hours at first just to train some of your starting skills up (and get to the point where you will have a skill that will take a day or more to train -- good for training overnight or when you know you're not going to be able to play for a long time). That'll give you a chance to do the training missions and such as well, and get familiar with the interface.

Olive

06-18-2006, 06:24 PM

You will want to be able to play for a couple hours at first just to train some of your starting skills up (and get to the point where you will have a skill that will take a day or more to train -- good for training overnight or when you know you're not going to be able to play for a long time). That'll give you a chance to do the training missions and such as well, and get familiar with the interface.

Cool.

So I get back home tomorrow night and intend to get some time in. Are there any classic n00b mistakes or similar when it comes to character creation?

Black Isis

06-18-2006, 09:32 PM

Cool.

So I get back home tomorrow night and intend to get some time in. Are there any classic n00b mistakes or similar when it comes to character creation?
Feel free to play with the character creator as much as you want, but don't finalize a character until you're pretty sure what you want -- you can create three characters, but it takes 24 hours to delete one, so you only have so many tries to get something you like. :) Spend some time poking around the website, looking at the ships, and reading about the background if you intend to roleplay at all -- it can help you find a race that will suit your character concept.

When creating your character, here's some notes about attributes and skills:

Attributes' only purpose is to compute training time for a skill. Each skill has a primary and a secondary attribute. The amount of skill points you train in T time in that skill is computed with the formula K(2P+S) were K is a constant, P is the primary attribute and S is the secondary attribute. Perception and Willpower are going to be most important for gunnery and ship command skills. Memory and Intelligence are best for the learning skills, support skills (that make it easier to equip your ship with modules that make it stronger, faster, or in some other way better), and industrial/science skills. Charisma is really only important for trading and social skills. So, if you're going to be a combat pilot, you want to put points in Perception and Willpower (although I wouldn't shortchange Memory and Intelligence too much).

It's better to have a few skills with a high level than a lot of skills at a low level at the beginning of the game. Learning a new skill is relatively cheap and takes a short amount of time. For instance, learning a basic skill like Engineering from level 1 to level 2 will probably take you 15-30 minutes. Raising it from level 3 to 4 will probably take 2 days. So, if you keep your starting skills concentrated in the same skills, you'll keep getting more levels in those skills instead of spreading your levels around.

If you start as one race, you can always learn to fly another race's ships, so don't feel like you're going to get too trapped. I am Caldari and I fly ships from all 4 major races. Just make sure your attributes are decent to start with and you like your character portrait -- even a bad skill choice at the beginning of the game will only cost you a couple days of training at most. In the long run, it's not going to matter.

Acquiring the learning skills, which boost your attributes, should be a priority, but don't prioritize them too much. It's stupid to take a day training Iron Will from 3 to 4 to boost your Willpower by 1 point if you're waiting to train Shield Operation to 1 -- the time you're going to save is miniscule compared to the advantage you're going to get in being able to learn those new abilities. So train more immediately useful skills while you're online and will be sitting at the computer when they finish -- train those long long-term advantage skills while you're offline, at work or asleep, and can get up and switch it when they get low or finish training. You can switch the skill you're training at any time with no loss of points, so feel free to switch between short and longterm skills whenever you feel like it.

That should be a good start for you. :)

Snoopy

06-19-2006, 03:40 AM

And is a nice guide for me, too...

bubbles

06-19-2006, 04:40 AM

There are some good utilities you can download for EVE as well which will help you prioritise your skill training:

EVEmon (http://evemon.evercrest.com/) is basically a skill calculator which allows you to plan which skills you will train and when. You can slect any skill, item or ship in the game and it will work out the skills you need to use it and give you the time (it will also identify if training additional learning skills will reduce the overall training time, and plan accordingly). It automatically logs into your character to retrieve your character sheet so it always knows what you're doing.

QuickFit (http://www.elegance-corp.net/quickfit/) allows you to set up ships offline, which is useful for finding out how a particular setup will perform in a given situation. It also allows you to modify your skill setup for test purposes, so you can see, frex, what your capacitor recharge would be with Energy Management IV or something. Probably more useful once you have been playing for a while, as the maths in EVE can be somewhat overwhelming at first ;)

There are others, but those are the ones I use.

Snoopy

06-19-2006, 08:54 AM

Black Isis

06-19-2006, 09:02 AM

Gyah! I just got my ass kicked, big time!

Was pootling around, doing missions, when suddenly, on one of the missions, instead of the 5 pirates threat-rated low or so, I get a whole cloud of High and Very High threat-rated pirates, and get my ass wiped completely away. Of course, I now find out that `Worlds Collide' is one of the harder missions...
Oooof, yeah....I never did the lower level World's Collide, but the level 4 one is im-freaking-possible with just one person as far as I'm concerned. Sorry you learned the hard way. :( As I told you last night though, your ship setup is hardly optimal, so you should be pretty careful. You can decline a mission from your agent once every 4 hours without a standing hit, so it might be a good idea to turn those down at least until you have a better hang on things. The threat ratings on pirates are unreliable anyway -- I routinely kill "deadly" rated pirates with ease in my ships now -- so don't rely on them.

With missions, it's important to engage groups one at a time and not to stir up the whole hornet's nest either, unless you've got just a ludicrous tank. You probably figured that out, but I figured it counldn't hurt to mention it.

RabidBunny

06-19-2006, 09:13 AM

Of course, I now find out that `Worlds Collide' is one of the harder missions...
Everyone I know has had their arse handed to them at least one by "Worlds Collide". Read the boards on how to deal with it, but the best advice in general is to refuse it until you have a tier 3 frigate, decently equiped and okay skills to match. Before that it will just ruin your day.

Olive

06-20-2006, 12:38 AM

Thanks guys. I'm d/ling the client now and then I'll install and get going. See you in spaaaaaaaaacccccceeeeee...

Olive

06-20-2006, 06:39 AM

So I've now fially played EVE. Hung out a bit on the RPGnet chat (hi Snoopy!) and I did the training stuff, which went fine. There seemed to be a lack of pirate drone thingies around when I was doing the combat training, but they eventually showed up.

But typical me, I started on a day when they close the servers for 7 hours! So far I've found it terribly addictive and fun. I've got money for a new ship I guess so I'm training up my galatean frigate skills and we'll go from there.

PS: Is it possible to play the gae in a window? Anyone know how?

RabidBunny

06-20-2006, 07:00 AM

Is it possible to play the gae in a window? Anyone know how?
The answer is both yes and no in my experience unfortunately. If you look under the "Graphics" options there is a check box for windowed play. However, I've never managed to resize the window just to keep an eye on things whilst I've done other things.

If you want to do something else whilst you just travel (say for example you have 20+ jumps through safe space), just turn up the sound and Alt-Tab, you can hear when things are going pear shaped. This is the only time I would recommend doing this however and only then when you can identify things by sound (easier than it sounds).

Paqman

06-20-2006, 07:11 AM

Allon

06-20-2006, 07:25 AM

Yup. All of it.
Hope you got insurance on it.

Paqman

06-20-2006, 07:48 AM

Ok, ..... this might sound stupid.... Since I don't know anything about this game.....

You can buy insurances?

Snoopy

06-20-2006, 07:53 AM

Yep. Different qualities of policies (and hence how much you pay --- although all of it is upfront) get you different amounts of payouts when your ship gets trashed. Platinum policies (the best) pay out a bit more than you should be able to buy the ship for, so you get a bit of spare cash to buy extras (like guns!).

Black Isis

06-20-2006, 07:54 AM

This discussion got me into looking at the site and watching the videos, which are absolutelly awesome, even by today's graphics standards and this got me slightly hooked.

Can someone confirm what happens when you get your ship trashed?
You actually loose the ship with its cargo content? So the money you invested in the ship is gone?
When your ship is destroyed, the ship itself is gone and you pop out in an escape pod -- when that happens you better move -- pods don't last too long under fire, but they do take a while to lock on to; so as soon as you're destroyed, you should warp away. If you're just fighting NPCs, this is less of a problem; NPCs do not generally fire on pods. Players can and do often podkill players.

Some of the modules, and some of your cargo, may survive the explosion. In fact, this is why there are suicide ships in major trade hubs (bit more on that in a second). The stuff that survives will be in a cargo container right next to where you blew up (colocated with your escape pod). A friend or enemy could recover this. That's one of the major motivations for PvP; you get to recover modules from your opponent if you win. You can buy insurance for your ship, which recovers some of the costs; generally you'll lose money because the insurance covers not much more than the base costs of the ship (so no equipment) -- for tech 2 ships, insurance covers barely any of the cost; personally, I don't usually bother with insurance for those, but I don't have many of them either, and don't use them for PvP much.

If your pod is destroyed, you pop back up whereever your clone is in storage. Each clone has a grade of X skill points. If your current total skill points is less than your clone's grade, then you lose no skills, you just lose any implants you had in your clone at the time of the podkill. If you have more skill points than your clone's grade, you lose 5% (I think) of the difference. For instance, you have a clone which is rated at 2M skill points, and you have 3M skill points when someone kills you. You'll lose 50K skill points from random skills (3M - 2M = 1M, 5% of 1M = 50K) and have to retrain them. For this reason, it's a very good idea to keep your clone up to date.

In Jita, one of the big trade hubs, there are players who have set up their ships to do a seriously wrecking alpha strike which can take out an industrial (the big, cumbersome, but generally weak transport ships) before the police ships can respond. Generally, they lurk near gates and scan passing ships, attacking when the value of the cargo is 100M+ ISK and the target is weakly defended (if the value is less than 100M ISK, they will lose money on their ship loss, so they don't bother). Then one of their alts will swing by and grab the cargo (god do I hate alts and second accounts).

This is why you shouldn't transport small, valuable things like blueprints in industrials -- put them in a fast ship and just blow by these guys, or put them in an armored behemoth that can tank their fire until CONCORD takes them down. Every couple weeks you hear about someone who put a 10B ISK BPO in their industrial and then got popped in Jita. Not smart. There are heavier transports and freighters that can also take a pounding that are valid ways of transporting bulkier cargoes.

Paqman

06-20-2006, 10:25 AM

Black Isis

06-20-2006, 10:31 AM

Ok, so now this part is covered.

What have I to look for if, for example, my ship, cargo and pod is trashed and I don't have enough money to buy a replacement. Am i to going to need to beg for money or is there a system to get you started with a low level ship?
When you dock at a station in a pod, you will get a free newbie frigate, with a basic mining laser and civilian weapon. It's nothing special, but it's good enough to get you moving. It's really not that hard to come up with the money for a decent tech 1 frigate; even the tier 3 frigates are only about 250,000 ISK. You may have to go back to doing lower level missions, or doing a little mining, or asking a friend for a loan, but you won't be out of it for very long.

Snoopy

06-20-2006, 12:29 PM

The new ship you're given for free comes equipped with a low level gun and mining `laser', but they're really not much cop. But yes, getting hold of something better is not at all hard.

Allon

06-20-2006, 01:05 PM

And if you just want to go somewhere, buy a shuttle.

Olive

06-20-2006, 10:08 PM

And if you just want to go somewhere, buy a shuttle.

So what are shuttles for exactly?

anyway, if anyone wants me I'm Guregh Destan in EVE.

bubbles

06-21-2006, 12:49 AM

So what are shuttles for exactly?

anyway, if anyone wants me I'm Guregh Destan in EVE.
Travel. They are very cheap, very fast ships but with no slots to fit anything.

Black Isis

06-21-2006, 07:46 AM

Travel. They are very cheap, very fast ships but with no slots to fit anything.
The other advantage is that when repackaged, they are only about 500m3, so they fit quite nicely inside the hold of any industrial, and even most battleships (or a cruiser fitted for cargo carrying). So, let's say you want to move your battleship and an industrial to the location of a new agent you're working at. You pack up a shuttle, stick it in your industrial, and fly to the agent's station. When you get there, you unload the shuttle, assemble it, and fly back to your headquarters. Then hop in your battleship and fly that to the agent station. Viola! Industrial and battleship at the agent station together.

Allon

06-21-2006, 06:37 PM

Also, some newbie advice that has to be repeated:

Never fly anything you can't afford to lose! Seriously.

Well, maybe just once. Just so you won't ever forget again.

JapaG

06-22-2006, 02:28 AM

Ok, I plan to start my 14 day evaluation period today. I thank you all for the good newbie advice and information!

I have a question regarding the ingame browser:

The Player Guide at the Eve website tells me this: "The in-game browser gives access to various in-game information, even corporation home pages. You can create your own pages too, and there is a link on the default page that tells which tags you can use in the in-game browser."

What does this mean? Is the browser only a place to advertise your corporation, or is there, for example, a game FAQ or is the player guide accessible through the ingame browser?

Thanks for your help!

Snoopy

06-22-2006, 05:16 AM

A lot of the eve-online website is accessible from the in-game browser. The latest patch updates, while they should be, don't work, which is annoying. But the player FAQ works fine, and is useful.

PaulTucker

06-22-2006, 06:12 AM

Worlds Collide

So, amusingly given the mix up on it yesterday I just got the World's Collide mission.

Any advice?

Pax

06-22-2006, 07:07 AM

Platinum policies (the best) pay out a bit more than you should be able to buy the ship for, so you get a bit of spare cash to buy extras (like guns!).
Er. Really ...? 'cause I spell a bit of a potential exploit, there, if that's accurate.

Find somewhere that jackasses are "Gate-camping" (as described earlier). Buy a Platinum policy on your ship. Run that gate, and laugh as the n3wb-killers make you a profit.

Lather.

Rinse.

Repeat.

Moxiane

06-22-2006, 07:30 AM

Er. Really ...? 'cause I spell a bit of a potential exploit, there, if that's accurate.

Find somewhere that jackasses are "Gate-camping" (as described earlier). Buy a Platinum policy on your ship. Run that gate, and laugh as the n3wb-killers make you a profit.

Lather.

Rinse.

Repeat.
Yeah, you can make money that way. It's hardly the fastest method, though, and if you get podded you're also out a clone and any implants you may have - which can get expensive at the higher end.

Octomon

06-22-2006, 07:40 AM

I'm in Duragon Pioneer Group, a corp in GoonSwarm. If anyone has just joined Eve I'd recommend you come and join us (join #dpg on the chat thingy). 0.0 space is hella fun and you make a lot more money and learn how to survive faster out here. Nothing beats flying out in my tackling frigate (a small, fast ship designed trap people in place while the battleships blast it to atoms) and help defend our space.

Pro tip. fit your ships with warp stabilisers, as many as you can fit. People camp gates and stop you from warping out while they kill you. Warp stabilisers counteract their traps and let you laugh at them as you jump away.

Pax

06-22-2006, 08:44 AM

Pro tip. fit your ships with warp stabilisers, as many as you can fit. People camp gates and stop you from warping out while they kill you. Warp stabilisers counteract their traps and let you laugh at them as you jump away.
Sounds like good advice; once my DSL connection is fixed (it's gotten HIGHLY unreliable the past couple days, argh), I'm going to be trying a free trial out. Sadly, there's no room in the budget to pay for a subscription anytime soon, but ... who knows, eh? ^_^

Snoopy

06-22-2006, 09:08 AM

Er. Really ...? 'cause I spell a bit of a potential exploit, there, if that's accurate.

Find somewhere that jackasses are "Gate-camping" (as described earlier). Buy a Platinum policy on your ship. Run that gate, and laugh as the n3wb-killers make you a profit.

Lather.

Rinse.

Repeat.
It depends on how much you can get the ships for, but yes, there's an exploit there. The thing is, running missions or even just mining is going to be more profitable!

Yuri03

06-22-2006, 10:06 AM

Wow, this game looks totally awesome and the videos and posts here have really sold me on it. One or two questions though;

Other than abilities and ships, does your race determine anything else, like what corporations you can join?
I like the idea a RPing pirating. Are there pirating 'corporations' into RPing? The idea of an are being harrased by pirates and some anit-pirates come in and drop an ambush on them or vice-versa. Not lame 'leet' piraters.
Can your alt characters trade between each other? Like having an alt for mining to provide money for a fighter pilot alt.

I'm gonna send Bubbles a PM to get a trial, but I will not be activiating until sometime next week as I will be out of town this weekend.

Snoopy

06-22-2006, 10:49 AM

Other than abilities and ships, does your race determine anything else, like what corporations you can join?

Ummm... nope. And it doesn't actually effect what ships you can use, just which types you can use at the beginning.

I like the idea a RPing pirating. Are there pirating 'corporations' into RPing?

Almost certainly.

Can your alt characters trade between each other? Like having an alt for mining to provide money for a fighter pilot alt.

A fighter pilot should be able to get sufficient money from running missions for this not to be necessary. Also, unfortunately, only one of your (up to) three characters can be training a skill at any one time, so the game discourages alts in this way.

Black Isis

06-22-2006, 11:19 AM

Pro tip. fit your ships with warp stabilisers, as many as you can fit. People camp gates and stop you from warping out while they kill you. Warp stabilisers counteract their traps and let you laugh at them as you jump away.
Warp stabilizers are really only useful for travelling -- if you intend a fight, the low slots they take completely gimp your ability to dish out damage (or tank with your armor). Plus, with a lot of ships, it's better to fit nanofibers so you can align and warp before they can lock on to you anyway -- this is especially the case with small ships, like frigates, which can't fit enough WCS to make a difference anyway. The only ship I have which has WCS on it is my fleet combat Scorpion, which has one to keep me from being locked down by a single battleship or something else with a 20km scrambler, since I can't tank damage in that ship at all (my mid slots are filled with sensor/ECM equipment and my low slots are filled with even more). Even on my transport, I have 5 nanofibers instead of 5 WCS, because I can align and warp almost as fast as a cruiser (and I'm very cautious in my travel).

Another note....0.0 space is great for getting cash, but it's pretty damn brutal. What Octomon isn't telling you is that swarmer corps really only succeed because they fly in giant groups and can't be swatted fast enough by a small fleet -- they take losses, you just can't kill enough of them to matter. :) I'd suggest getting your space legs first before jumping out there.

Another note -- the ingame browser is just a normal browser, which is just not very full-featured (it can only handle pretty simple HTML). You can go to external websites and everything; a lot of corporations have pages that work in the in-game browser, and my bio actually has a link to a webpage I made with a more expansive bio for myself (I ran out of space in the bio space :)).

bubbles

06-22-2006, 03:09 PM

Er. Really ...? 'cause I spell a bit of a potential exploit, there, if that's accurate.

Find somewhere that jackasses are "Gate-camping" (as described earlier). Buy a Platinum policy on your ship. Run that gate, and laugh as the n3wb-killers make you a profit.

Lather.

Rinse.

Repeat.
Y'know if you decide to make money that way there's a pretty handy self-destruct button... ;)

Yuri03

06-22-2006, 05:09 PM

Y'know if you decide to make money that way there's a pretty handy self-destruct button... ;)

Ha ha.

A fighter pilot should be able to get sufficient money from running missions for this not to be necessary. Also, unfortunately, only one of your (up to) three characters can be training a skill at any one time, so the game discourages alts in this way.

Ah, this is good to know.

JapaG

06-22-2006, 05:21 PM

Well, I tried it for a couple of hours this evening. It is very beautiful. It also seems a bit overwhelming. I mean that everybody was right when they said that you need to make your own game.

But, I have only tried it for a very short time. Maybe it will all become clear to me in the next two weeks... ;)

I want to thank all the people who were at the RPGnet channel, everybody was very helpful.

I'll see you again in the weekend!

bubbles

06-22-2006, 05:54 PM

One point: all you motherfuckers who have been taking advantage of my generous nature with the whole free pass thing had better subscribe afterwards, cos I want as many entries in this month's raffle as possible!

Also, anyone else wants a free trial, keep those email addresses coming!

PS. Yuri, I wasn't joking about the self-detruct thing, your insurance does pay if you self-destruct (just checked it;)). Can be an easy way to cash in a ship without navigating the market.

Snoopy

06-23-2006, 03:42 AM

Yeah, JapaG, I originally just made a character to go out and see what to do, but then read a bit more, and Oncoming Storm is an ex-slave out for vengeance on the Amarr --- that's why he's working for the Minmatar Justice Department so much at the moment.

And Bubbles? I think I just might actually sign up. (Oh yes, and I do in fact fuck a mother... she's great!)

Olive

06-23-2006, 04:51 AM

I've certainly been having fun with in, despite losing two ships already through stupidity. Neither of them are that big a deal though and two different people have just gifted me 1mil IS each for more or less no particular reason!

The RPG.net channel is great although sorry if I've been a bit too chatty in there!

The only reason I'm not playing right now is beacuse the server is down.

Darting Flea

06-23-2006, 06:31 AM

I like the idea a RPing pirating. Are there pirating 'corporations' into RPing? The idea of an are being harrased by pirates and some anit-pirates come in and drop an ambush on them or vice-versa. Not lame 'leet' piraters.

Well there are is at least one RP Assassin Corp that was prepared to infiltrate a target guild over the period of a year and then in one glorious moment stole and destroyed a huge amount of the target guilds resources including a battle ship which was the only one of its kind.

I think with stuff like this going on you could probably find a pirate guild.

Snoopy

06-23-2006, 07:09 AM

You've been gifted 2M Isk? Lucky so and so! I had to work to become a millionaire! :) And don't worry about talking a lot in channel --- people can always ignore you! :P

Black Isis

06-23-2006, 07:38 AM

Well there are is at least one RP Assassin Corp that was prepared to infiltrate a target guild over the period of a year and then in one glorious moment stole and destroyed a huge amount of the target guilds resources including a battle ship which was the only one of its kind.

I think with stuff like this going on you could probably find a pirate guild.
There were actually two of that particular battleship -- the only other one is now in the hands of Istvaan Shogatsu, the man behind the Guiding Hand Social Club, which perpetrated that attack. Recent someone stole a few hundred million from him and he posted a screen shot with the caption "oh dear, how will I ever recover," where it showed his wallet (currently over 75 billion ISK) and his Imperial Apocalypse-class battleship, estimated to be worth 20-25 billion on the market (no one really knows, since it's unique, but that's what he's been offered). Most of his corp are multibillionaires too.

On the other hand, his target in that attack is hardly dead either....

Darting Flea

06-23-2006, 07:47 AM

There were actually two of that particular battleship -- the only other one is now in the hands of Istvaan Shogatsu, the man behind the Guiding Hand Social Club, which perpetrated that attack. Recent someone stole a few hundred million from him and he posted a screen shot with the caption "oh dear, how will I ever recover," where it showed his wallet (currently over 75 billion ISK) and his Imperial Apocalypse-class battleship, estimated to be worth 20-25 billion on the market (no one really knows, since it's unique, but that's what he's been offered). Most of his corp are multibillionaires too.

On the other hand, his target in that attack is hardly dead either....

Damn thats cool. The details were hazy for me and I couldn't find the original article.

Yuri03

06-23-2006, 08:04 AM

There were actually two of that particular battleship -- the only other one is now in the hands of Istvaan Shogatsu, the man behind the Guiding Hand Social Club, which perpetrated that attack. Recent someone stole a few hundred million from him and he posted a screen shot with the caption "oh dear, how will I ever recover," where it showed his wallet (currently over 75 billion ISK) and his Imperial Apocalypse-class battleship, estimated to be worth 20-25 billion on the market (no one really knows, since it's unique, but that's what he's been offered). Most of his corp are multibillionaires too.

On the other hand, his target in that attack is hardly dead either....

Yes! That is the kind of pirating action I would be into. Hopefully I can get into one of those groups when I start playing. It should provide me with vast hours of entertainment.

Snoopy

06-23-2006, 08:06 AM

Be prepared to make a lot of enemies that way.

Seeing as though we're talking corps, does anyone know of a Minmatar-based anti-slaving corp?

Black Isis

06-23-2006, 08:08 AM

Yes! That is the kind of pirating action I would be into. Hopefully I can get into one of those groups when I start playing. It should provide me with vast hours of entertainment.
The one downside is that groups like GH-SC tend to be very careful about who they hire, since they have made a lot of enemies over the course of the game, so you might have a tough time joining. GH-SC tends to be more of a mercenary outfit too (their attack on Ubiqah Seraph was done for someone who paid them to go after the CEO and destroy her and her corp), but they have done some target of opportunity attacks -- the one recently was a Band of Brothers (the most powerful alliance in the game) carrier that got caught out in Amarr low security space.

Snoopy, as far as Minmatar anti-slavers, you could look into a couple corporations and alliances; Ushra'Khan, Electus Matari, and Stormriders are all Minmatar RP alliances/corps. You might want to post a message on the Corporation/Alliance Recruitment forum and ask for some advice, or try to get in touch with some of the more frequent Minmatar posters on the Intergalactic Summit forum to see if you can't get ahold of them.

Tuxedo Mask

06-23-2006, 10:14 AM

Er. Really ...? 'cause I spell a bit of a potential exploit, there, if that's accurate.

Not really, seeing as Platinum insurance costs about 30% of the ship cost, and then pays out about 110% of the ship cost.

TM

Paul B

06-23-2006, 10:36 AM

Not really, seeing as Platinum insurance costs about 30% of the ship cost, and then pays out about 110% of the ship cost.

TM

But just the ship itself, IIRC, not any of the modules.

p.

Durandal

06-23-2006, 11:19 AM

As far as I know, the insurance cost is actually based off of the average price of the minerals used to make it at the time you insure it. I had a battlecruiser worth 24 mil that would only insure at platinum rates for 22 mil due to the low price of mineral in the region I was in. This is also the reason why insuring expensive tech 2 ships is largely a waste of time, since the price is inflated quite a bit even for tech 2 frigates.

Snoopy

06-23-2006, 11:22 AM

But just the ship itself, IIRC, not any of the modules.

p.
THen you're paying 130% of the ship cost for 110% of its cost back. Not a winning proposition there...

And thanks, Black Isis, I'll have a look into those.

Tuxedo Mask

06-23-2006, 11:43 AM

This is also the reason why insuring expensive tech 2 ships is largely a waste of time, since the price is inflated quite a bit even for tech 2 frigates.

Also, if you are using T2 frigates, the cost of equipping it often far, far, far outstrips the purchase price.

I just bought a Manticore. Cost me about 12m to buy - I can insure it for about 4m, but it has cost me about 110m to equip it (cloaking devices and named cruise launchers are EXPENSIVE). Getting 12m ISK if I lose the ship is a tiny proportion of its total cost.

But, in terms of platinum insurance being 'exploitable', no it's not. Only if mineral prices crashed about 30-40% across the board would that be the case.

Only time you would deliberately blow up an insured ship for the payout is if the insurance is about to expire. In that case, you might as well cash it in for 110% of it's value if it's going to revert back to 100% (uninsured) tomorrow.

TM

Black Isis

06-23-2006, 11:51 AM

And mineral prices are not likely to drop anytime soon. Zydrine and megacyte will likely be going up in the very near future, as the taste of the new missions shown by accident last Tuesday shows that the devs are planning to reduce the amount of those given by rogue drone missions. And since macrominers have a considerably harder time operating in low security space, which is the only place to get the ores that contain those minerals, you can say hello to higher prices soon. I'm seriously thinking about dumping all my spare cash into zydrine and megacyte to see if I can't make a killing that way, but....

Allon

06-23-2006, 07:26 PM

Damn thats cool. The details were hazy for me and I couldn't find the original article.

Here you go:

http://eve.klaki.net/heist/

And no Yuri, they're pretty much under lockdown. I'd say the chances of getting in are rather slim. :D
Nothing stopping you from making a name for yourself though.

bubbles

06-24-2006, 05:06 PM

Well that's interesting. My corp just joined an alliance, so now we're all packing up and heading off into 0.0 space. So I may not be around to help as much now, however I will be having lots of fun killing BoB :)

eskatonic

06-24-2006, 08:07 PM

You guys all need to shut up. I am so close to resubscribing, just so I can hang out with the rpg.net kids.

:D

eskatonic (aka "Salandra Decados")*

* I am a sad, sad Fading Suns nerd.

Snoopy

06-25-2006, 03:53 AM

Join us!

PaulTucker

06-25-2006, 12:47 PM

You guys all need to shut up. I am so close to resubscribing, just so I can hang out with the rpg.net kids.

:D

eskatonic (aka "Salandra Decados")*

* I am a sad, sad Fading Suns nerd.

It'd be fairly easy to blend a bit of FS into Eve I think, a planet with an aristocracy, some religion thrown in...

Yuri03

06-25-2006, 12:55 PM

And no Yuri, they're pretty much under lockdown. I'd say the chances of getting in are rather slim. :D
Nothing stopping you from making a name for yourself though.

Bummer. May be I can locate another corp to join, but until then I think I will make a name for myself once I start in the next few days. I would really be happy if I get ambushed suddenly for being a pest in a certain area. I wouldn't even mind it.

bubbles

06-25-2006, 05:27 PM

Bummer. May be I can locate another corp to join, but until then I think I will make a name for myself once I start in the next few days. I would really be happy if I get ambushed suddenly for being a pest in a certain area. I wouldn't even mind it.
Sounds like you're interested in PvP, in which case my corp (Critical Mass Enterprises) may recruit you. Because we're based in 0.0 space now, we are saying your character must be 2-3 months old before we will recruit you, but some time in the future we would be happy for you to join. Speak to me (Hans Steinberg) in-game for more info.

Olive

06-26-2006, 05:15 AM

Hey bubbles/Hans - I'll likely be paying up when my trial ends - I'm away again from tomorrow night until the end of the following week, but I'd like to stay in.

I went to 0.2 space today, my first trip to low sec space and saw NO ONE AT ALL. I was half expecting to get shot up as soon as I left the jump, but no...

Octomon

06-26-2006, 05:30 AM

My corp is in 0.0 space in syndicate. I've been there since I started the game and it's pretty safe space and more fun than Empire. We have Goonfleet (which is huge) protecting our space for us and you can join in on fun battles. My corp has been nothing but helpful to me. I doubt I would be playing if I was only my own.

Pyske

06-26-2006, 07:58 AM

The specific broken social dynamic in question (jerkwads who have been playing for a long time acting hostile to newbies) is present to some extent in every MMO, but EVE's system encourages it rather than trying to mitigate it.

If you want newbies to be valued, you need to give them something of value. Simple as that.

I'll speculate here what might work for EVE (spec because I haven't played precisely because of the newbie-unfriendliness):

Give every new account (identified by a separate credit card #) a pool of "genetic purity" points. Every time you clone, it results in "genetic drift". If you have purity points remaining, you lose one point. If not, you lose some VERY SMALL amount of skill.

Then, allow this genetic purity to be transferred via voluntary tissue samples. If the other player has less purity than you, they can transfer 1 purity from the newbie to gain 1/4 of the difference between the the ratings for themself.

Suddenly, newbies have something of value, to be either hoarded or sold. It also means that the rougher you are on newbies, the more often they die, the less value you can get out of them when you want to use them.

If you want the economics to put value on newbies, there's an economic solution for you. :)

Black Isis

06-26-2006, 08:35 AM

Bummer. May be I can locate another corp to join, but until then I think I will make a name for myself once I start in the next few days. I would really be happy if I get ambushed suddenly for being a pest in a certain area. I wouldn't even mind it.
If you are Caldari, you might want to talk to Yasujiro Kaibara, who runs a Practical faction Caldari corp....and is quite a bit of a pest himself. :)

Yuri03

06-26-2006, 08:44 AM

Sounds like you're interested in PvP, in which case my corp (Critical Mass Enterprises) may recruit you. Because we're based in 0.0 space now, we are saying your character must be 2-3 months old before we will recruit you, but some time in the future we would be happy for you to join. Speak to me (Hans Steinberg) in-game for more info.

Awesome. I just started last night, and wow! You guys weren't kidding about being thrown in the deep end. I feel like I did when I was playing SWG, but I managed to get by in the time that I played. I have bought my first new frigate, a Slasher (I'm Minmatar btw) and have done a couple missions. The number of skills is the most overwhelming part. I was thinking of grabing a missle launcher, but I didn't realize you needed to get M.Launcher Op and one of a number of Missle Skills.

On that note, what can people recommend me with Missles and Launchers. I wasn't planning on using them all the time since you have to purchase them, just for emergencies. Is capacity more important than RoF? What should you look for in a good rocket/missle?

I'm gonna be on later so I will contact some people then. Name's Yuri Mashikova (no I'm not Russian, just a cool name I thought of). What is the RPGnet channel?

Snoopy

06-26-2006, 08:50 AM

The RPGnet channel is (imaginatively) RPGnet. :)

And may I say: WOOT! Another Minmatar!

The Slasher is cool, very VERY fast. I also was completely overwhelmed by the number of options (both skill and equipment-wise), but I'm largely ignoring things until I find out about them! As for missile launchers, I think RoF is the most important thing, but it's always a bit poo, frankly. I just go with Bloodfire (or more recently, Piranha) missiles, as they seem to do the trick, and my frigate, a Breacher, gets big bonuses to Explosive Missiles.

Black Isis

06-26-2006, 08:55 AM

Awesome. I just started last night, and wow! You guys weren't kidding about being thrown in the deep end. I feel like I did when I was playing SWG, but I managed to get by in the time that I played. I have bought my first new frigate, a Slasher (I'm Minmatar btw) and have done a couple missions. The number of skills is the most overwhelming part. I was thinking of grabing a missle launcher, but I didn't realize you needed to get M.Launcher Op and one of a number of Missle Skills.

On that note, what can people recommend me with Missles and Launchers. I wasn't planning on using them all the time since you have to purchase them, just for emergencies. Is capacity more important than RoF? What should you look for in a good rocket/missle?

I'm gonna be on later so I will contact some people then. Name's Yuri Mashikova (no I'm not Russian, just a cool name I thought of). What is the RPGnet channel?
Missiles can be a powerful primary weapon -- less so for the Minmatar though, since most of their ships tend to concentrate on bonuses for projectiles. For your frigates, just starting out, they make a good complement to your main guns though. Your choices, on a frigate, is rockets or standard missiles. Rockets have short range, high fire rate, and high damage; standard missiles have longer range and fire slower. Generally, you want to go with a missile that matches the range of your guns -- so if you're using autocannons, use rockets, if you're using artillery, use standard missiles.

To join the RPGnet channel, click on the channels tool on the left side of the screen, then click on the "create/join channel" button and type in "RPGnet" (no quotes). That should open another window with the RPGnet channel in it.

Yuri03

06-26-2006, 10:09 AM

Black Isis

06-26-2006, 10:24 AM

So, seeing as how Minmatar ships have bonuses to projectile weapons, should I stick with them for now? When outfitting a ship, is it good to have a variety of types, or focus on one type, or just try and keep ranges similar?
Try to keep the ranges similar so that you can stay at a certian range and all your weapons can be brought to bear at once. The other general advice I'd give you is to use the bonuses your ship gives you as much as possible (this is generally always the case, although there's a few ships where you seem to get better results not doing that -- mostly on Amarr ships though). So, if you ship gives you a lot of bonuses to small projectile guns, your main armament should consist of small projectile guns. If you get a bonus to explosive missiles, use missile or rocket launchers with explosive missiles or rockets. If you get a bonus to shield boosting, you're going to want to shield tank and use a shield booster. This way, you can make the most of your ship's unique advantages.

Generally, the races ships break down this way:

Amarr ships tend to be slow, heavy laser users. They have the strongest armor and because of that, almost all the time you'll want to armor tank with them and use lasers as your primary armament. They also have a few ships (like the Arbitrator) which are good drone ships.

Caldari strengths are ECM, missiles, and to a lesser extent hybrid guns (usually rails), with the best shield tanking. The two best ECM platforms in the game (Blackbird cruiser and Scorpion battleship) are Caldari ships, as are all the major missile ships.

Gallente ships use hybrids (usually blasters) and drones, and usually armor tank. Some of the deadliest ships in the game, one-on-one, are the Gallente Thorax and Megathron, which can dish out just a hellish amount of damage at close range.

Minmatar ships are sort of an odd duck. They are the fastest ships in the game and generally use projectiles and armor tank -- but there's a lot of exceptions. The Minmatar battlecruiser shield tanks and the Typhoon battleship tends to use a lot of drones. Most of the time, I've seen people say that Minmatar ships are some of the best in the game, but they require the most skills and the most experience to know how to use them properly of any ships in the game.

Yuri03

06-26-2006, 10:29 AM

Minmatar ships are sort of an odd duck. They are the fastest ships in the game and generally use projectiles and armor tank -- but there's a lot of exceptions. The Minmatar battlecruiser shield tanks and the Typhoon battleship tends to use a lot of drones. Most of the time, I've seen people say that Minmatar ships are some of the best in the game, but they require the most skills and the most experience to know how to use them properly of any ships in the game.

Great. I always seem to pick the character class/race that is quite difficult to play with :). CoH was the exception. I managed to pick the solo class first time out.

Paul B

06-26-2006, 10:57 AM

THen you're paying 130% of the ship cost for 110% of its cost back. Not a winning proposition there...

And thanks, Black Isis, I'll have a look into those.

I think that's exactly why it's not an exploit per se. In fact I'm not sure how to make it an exploit, or what exploit people are talking about. If the insurance paid against full retail, then you could buy a ship super-cheap (maybe constructed by your own corp), blow it up, and cash out. It's insurance fraud but hardly out of genre for the game.

There's also the cost of your clone, which makes getting yourself killed awfully damned expensive in the middle ranges of skill points (like 5-15 mil), nevermind the cost of implants.

All that aside, the biggest piece of suck in getting killed is the time to re-equip. It might take me an hour or two of real life zipping around inside the game buying replacement parts for stuff I only had one of. That's one reason why I HATED getting into combat that wasn't a one-sided gankfest (which I hated because it was never a contest -- jumping an unescorted miner felt cruel).

p.

Tuxedo Mask

06-26-2006, 11:29 AM

Great. I always seem to pick the character class/race that is quite difficult to play with :). CoH was the exception. I managed to pick the solo class first time out.

You don't have to stick with the ships of your own race. Just because you picked Minmatar doesn't mean you can't fly different ships, it just means you'll pay a bit more for them unless you travel to get them.

And yeah, to fly Minmatar ships you need to be a bit of a Jack-of-all trades. Armor Tanking, Shield Tanking, both projectiles and missiles (although pretty much everyone has to learn missiles) and drones. By comparison, you can fly Caldari ships and never need to learn anything except Shield and Missile skills. But there's no reason you can't do that as a Minmatar, in fact I decided, with my current Minmatar character, to do exactly that.

Oh, I play at the moment as Jason Ryder - I used to hang out in rpgnet a while back but after a while of it being empty and quiet, I stopped. Seeing as it appears to be being used again, I've started joining that channel again, so, well, Jason Ryder, thats me.

Oh, and thanks to whoever linked to those 2 eve apps earlier, really helped me plot the skills I needed to fit my Manticore better, and work out the config that would fit with the new skills :)

TM

Black Isis

06-26-2006, 11:46 AM

Great. I always seem to pick the character class/race that is quite difficult to play with :). CoH was the exception. I managed to pick the solo class first time out.
Well, there's nothing keeping you from learning to fly Caldari ships with your Minmatar character. I play Caldari, but I fly ships from all the major races.

Black Isis

06-26-2006, 11:49 AM

I think that's exactly why it's not an exploit per se. In fact I'm not sure how to make it an exploit, or what exploit people are talking about. If the insurance paid against full retail, then you could buy a ship super-cheap (maybe constructed by your own corp), blow it up, and cash out. It's insurance fraud but hardly out of genre for the game.
You'll still lose money that way I think, since insurance costs are based on mineral price for the ship. Yes, you can build a ship for "free" by mining all the minerals yourself, but the hours you spent mining could have been spent doing missions or trading, so there's still a cost to that.

Snoopy

06-26-2006, 01:07 PM

There's also the cost of your clone, which makes getting yourself killed awfully damned expensive in the middle ranges of skill points (like 5-15 mil), nevermind the cost of implants.

Scuttling the ship just puts you in your pod, it doesn't kill you.

Tuxedo Mask

06-26-2006, 03:59 PM

Scuttling the ship just puts you in your pod, it doesn't kill you.

Unless you set your ship to self destruct, then eject your pod just before it blows up, catching your pod in the explosion radius.

Not that I've ever done that, no sirree, not me, definately not.

*whistles innocently*

TM

Snoopy

06-27-2006, 05:10 AM

*sigh* There's always one...

Allon

06-27-2006, 06:54 AM

All that aside, the biggest piece of suck in getting killed is the time to re-equip. It might take me an hour or two of real life zipping around inside the game buying replacement parts for stuff I only had one of. That's one reason why I HATED getting into combat that wasn't a one-sided gankfest (which I hated because it was never a contest -- jumping an unescorted miner felt cruel).
p.

Ouch. You may need to change your moral outlook a bit for Eve.
Jumping an unescorted miner should feel profitable, not cruel. Just because you're blowing up his ship, stealing his stuff and laughing all the ways to the bank, doesn't mean you can't give him some tips on where he went wrong.

Black Isis

06-27-2006, 07:40 AM

Paul B

06-27-2006, 09:42 AM

Ouch. You may need to change your moral outlook a bit for Eve.
Jumping an unescorted miner should feel profitable, not cruel. Just because you're blowing up his ship, stealing his stuff and laughing all the ways to the bank, doesn't mean you can't give him some tips on where he went wrong.

Right, like I ever got tips from anyone when I dared walk into 0.4 space to explore some deadspace only to discover a bunch of murderers camped on the jump-in point where I can't see them on the local channel. No tips from any of those thoughtful pirates who jump little starter frigates, either. Or the 20 mil sp players who think it's fun to take down 1-2 mil sp players. It's rampant, it's pathetic, it's uninteresting to me.

It would be grand if the EVE community supported beginning players, but Stephenls got it right -- the emergent behavior of EVE is to be extremely beginner-unfriendly. Being from the US doesn't help much either, since the best corps I ever got leads on seem to be EU-based and our schedules never lined up right.

Meh, not for me. The aggressor/victim vibe was a drag -- I didn't want to be a victim OR an aggressor.

p.

Black Isis

06-27-2006, 09:54 AM

The lesson to take there is do not enter 0.4 space if you are not prepared for it. I have almost 16M skill points and I still don't like going through 0.4 space alone. It's extremely dangerous if you aren't prepared or moving in force. These days, I am preparing to move most of my operations into low security space -- but there are precautions that must be taken first. Instas are annoying, they are broken, but if you don't have them, you are at a severe disadvantage. At least get them for areas where you operate regularly. Move in force, with your corpmates at your back and ready to back you up if they have to. Keep moving. ALWAYS be moving, preferably aligned with a planet and ready to warp there -- and then warp again somewhere else quickly, to lose any pursuers.

And the biggest rule of all, probably anywhere in Eve, not just low security space -- never fly what you can't afford to lose. People who blow all their money on the biggest and best ship they can find, totally wiping out their account, and then lose it, whether through their own fault, an accident, or enemy action, will be in a much worse place than someone who spends less on a more reasonable ship and takes things slowly. I never let my wallet drop below 200M, and I don't like it getting below 300M either -- even though that's many times over what it would cost me to replace any of my ships. With that kind of cash I can easily afford to recover from any one loss, and even sustain myself pretty well for war operations for quite a while.

Paul B

06-27-2006, 11:05 AM

All excellent points and fundamental to having a good time in EVE. I was at 15 mil SP and had owned a handful of T2-stocked battlecruisers (and had a couple carebear alts) when I quit and found everything you say to be true. But I wanted to not have to rely on a corp for continued survival, nor did I want to rely on a corp to explore and enjoy the rest of the game's PVE content.

I mean, hats off to CCP: they have come up with some brilliant methods for forcing interaction while coupling it to the most ruthless setting imaginable. It's a perfect game for the right player.

p.

eskatonic

06-27-2006, 11:42 AM

Join us!

OK, you heartless bastards, I resubscribed, to check things out.

See you in space.

Are there any rpgnet guilds/corps out there?

eskatonic
"Salandra Decados"

Black Isis

06-27-2006, 11:49 AM

OK, you heartless bastards, I resubscribed, to check things out.

See you in space.

Are there any rpgnet guilds/corps out there?
There aren't any exclusively RPGnet corps that I know of, but there's plenty of us in good corps you could try applying for.

Snoopy

06-27-2006, 12:27 PM

And we're thinking about starting an RPGnet corp!

eskatonic

06-27-2006, 12:28 PM

And we're thinking about starting an RPGnet corp!

d02, Ltd.

"We Know No Limit!"

;)

Pax

06-27-2006, 12:58 PM

d02, Ltd.

"We Know No Limit!"

;)
HEH!

Snoopy

06-27-2006, 01:49 PM

d02, Ltd.

"We Know No Limit!"

;)
Darn it, I think we have a winner. Check my sig for more why-ness...

Yuri03

06-28-2006, 04:06 PM

So, I've bought my second frigate, a Rifter which I will be using for a while until I get some more money and SP. I have 3 low and med points that I'm not really sure what to insert. I was wondering what kind of boosters should I put in; something for extra shields or armor? I have 2 shield rechargers and armor repairers and an afterburner. I was curious as to what you guys would recommend.

Also, I was wondering what the next step up from frigate is? Need to know what I should save up for.

Spacklemonkey

06-28-2006, 09:01 PM

Also, I was wondering what the next step up from frigate is? Need to know what I should save up for.

Destroyers and then cruisers. Destroyers seem to be an inbetween class like battlecruisers between cruisers and battleships. I personally haven't seen that many of them. I've seen a lot of cruisers though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EVE_Online/ships is a good site for ship info.

LowBeyonder

06-28-2006, 09:55 PM

Also, I was wondering what the next step up from frigate is? Need to know what I should save up for.
I'd skip Destroyers and either go for Cruiser (next size up), or Assault Ship (frigate with teeth), depending on your preferences. Destroyer is really a very situational class - it doesn't have the punch to take on larger ships, and is overkill for smaller ones. You can do level 2 missions in one if you have decent skills, and it's good in an anti-frigate role in fleet combat, but that's about it. And you have to train it if you want to fly an Interdictor.

As for kitting a Rifter, I usually fit an afterburner, webifier, and cap recharger in mid, and a gyrostabilizer, small armor rep, and armor hardener (adaptive or explosive if you don't know what you're fighting, otherwise fit something specific) in lows. If you've got good cap management skills and routinely take on bigger ships, swap the cap recharger for a tracking disrupter. You *can* shield-tank a Rifter, but it's got a considerably higher skill requirement to do so effectively.

Durandal

06-29-2006, 01:25 AM

An RPGnet corp would probably get me to resubscribe sooner than I thought I would.

@Yuri03

As for outfitting a Rifter, I like armour tanking mine, so put a small armour rep in the low slots and possibly some kind of damage control or a passive hardener (such as energized plating) and in the med slots stick an afterburner, stasis web and any third thing that you want (I put a warp disruptor in for PvP but a cap recharger would help keep your small tank going). If all goes well you wont really need to use the armour rep much because you'll be going fast enough to make you hard to hit. Then with the web you can lock down your targets and rip them apart.

After you get used to the rifter I suggest getting into a stabber or a rupture next. The stabber is a nice quick AC platform that relies on speed for defense while the rupture is one of the best cruiser in the game. It has good armour, plenty of low slots to armour tank or to put damage mods on for sniping and a respectable drone bay for defending against frigates. Either of those will last you a good long time before you move on to either tech II frigates or the battelcruiser.

Snoopy

06-29-2006, 06:06 AM

Well, I'm working on getting the necessary skills... And working on getting a Rupture too. Although what I really want, I think, is a Hound, although that'll take about a month or training!

LowBeyonder

06-29-2006, 02:31 PM

After you get used to the rifter I suggest getting into a stabber or a rupture next. The stabber is a nice quick AC platform that relies on speed for defense while the rupture is one of the best cruiser in the game. It has good armour, plenty of low slots to armour tank or to put damage mods on for sniping and a respectable drone bay for defending against frigates. Either of those will last you a good long time before you move on to either tech II frigates or the battelcruiser.
Hell yea, Rupture is a pwnmobile, especially for a cruiser. And the Cyclone battlecruiser is fun too - only problem is it really wants you to shield-tank it, which is a whole different set of skills from armor-tanking.

Definately pick up the various miscellaneous Gunnery skills ASAP (that boost RoF, tracking, damage, etc.). You don't have to train them very high, even I or II on each makes a very noticeable difference, especially moving into Battlecruisers and up.

(I play as Nyxia Li online, but I haven't been on often lately while some long skills train and some RL stuff settles out.)

PaulTucker

06-30-2006, 05:36 AM

Black Isis

06-30-2006, 08:14 AM

What Cruiser?

Probably best aimed at Isis as the Caldari expert.

I've just gotten caldari cruisers up to 2, with 3 turning up sometime this weekend, medium rails and heavy missiles are at 1, with them being raised after that.

I'm torn between the Caracal and the Moa and can't seem to find a decent breakdown of which would work better for level 2 agent missiles/general stuff (i'll try some ratting and maybe a complex sometime in the next few weeks). After getting the basics up i'll be spending two weeks getting Int and Mem learning skills up to 5 before powering them through to advanced 3 and the other learning skills after. SO I figure I've got a month or so of learning skills - ideally then I want a ship I can do agent 2 missions and whatever in with relatively low skills (3s and a few 4s here and there).

Thoughts?
For level 2 missions, the Caracal is plenty good enough. In fact, I know a person who uses the Caracal for level 3s, though I will say that she has a hell of a lot of practice with it. With good missile skills and supporting skills, it is a really good ship -- we use them as disposable damage dealers in PvP quite often as well. The Caracal's major flaw is that it's an eggshell with a hammer; it can deal out damage like crazy, but it's not so good at taking it. The tech 2 version, the Cerberus, is one of the best mission running ships in the game.

The Moa is also a good ship, but the downside is that it takes a lot more skill to get as much out of it than it does the Caracal. It is definitely a lot tougher than the Caracal though; those shield resistance bonuses are pretty nice. It is primarily a rail ship though, which means if you're planning to graduate to the Raven eventually, it's skill tree is going to be a bit of a tangent for you. On the other hand, the tier 3 Caldari battleship coming with Kali is a rail boat, so you can move on to that instead, if you like rails. If you're more interested in moving on to the Eagle, the Moa's tech 2 variant, keep in mind that the Eagle is not the greatest mission running ship, but it is a pretty nasty PvP sniper.

Eventually, though, you'll probably want to look at a Ferox (or the new battlecruiser coming with Kali). It can be used for level 3s with ease, in either a rail or missile configuration (despite that it only gets rail bonuses), and could probably even tank a lot of level 4s, although I don't think it has the damage output to break a lot of the NPC battleship tanks.

eskatonic

06-30-2006, 08:37 AM

I would probably enjoy this game more if I could manage to stay connected for more than 5 minutes at a time. Looking at the tech support forum, it appears I'm not the only one with this issue.

I'll keep checking in to train skills, but CCP has to realize I'm going to want to play eventually.

:(

eskatonic

Yuri03

06-30-2006, 01:12 PM

Black Isis

06-30-2006, 01:37 PM

So, what I'm hearing is skip Destroyers and go right into Cruisers. That's cool, I figure by the time I learn the skills to fly one, I might have the money to buy and outfit one :).

As for getting into lvl 2 missions, I have heard that I need to wait for getting a Destroyer or Cruiser. Is this right? If so, what do I need to look for in terms of lvl 1 missions (or can I just go out and mine some things) for good money? The Quality rating? How can I raise that if need be?
Yea, you'll want a destroyer or cruiser before you're doing level 2s. For level 1 missions, you can just keep doing whatever you're doing -- using the highest agent quality you can find will give you more LP, standing, and cash rewards, so it can pay to shop around. Higher quality won't give you different missions, just pay you better for them.

LowBeyonder

06-30-2006, 08:29 PM

bubbles

07-01-2006, 09:49 PM

Yea, for the most part you need a Destroyer or bigger ship for level 2s. You can do most level 2s with a frig if you're willing to drop a lot of cash on kitting it with named gear, and have half-decent skills, but it's probably not worth it. Run the highest-qual level 1s you can find until you can both pilot AND effectively outfit a cruiser.
I wouldn'y recommend running level 2s in anything less than a Cruiser. It would probably be possible, but by the time you have the skills for it you've probably moved up to lvl 3 anyway ;). Also, it seems a bit masochistic even to try

LowBeyonder

07-01-2006, 10:44 PM

I could do most level 2s in a Rifter pretty early on, but it is very time-consuming and one run of bad luck will ruin you and your expensive named gear.

On the other hand, I'm doing level 2s in a Cyclone Battlecruiser at the moment (raising rep with a research corp from 0), and it's, well, overkill. Like clubbing baby seals. From forty km. With 700mm projectiles.

Yuri03

07-02-2006, 09:42 AM

To get lvl 2 missions, do you have to have the rep with a group at a certain rating, or just have done enough missions?

LowBeyonder

07-02-2006, 11:42 AM

Reputation with the corp (or faction). Basically, you do level 1s until you get a Storyline mission (a different contact will send you a mail asking for your help). That will have a big impact on the specific corp that the Storyline agent belongs to, and a moderate impact on your rep with the faction that corp is in. Do this until you can talk to a level 2 agent (any quality - if you can do L2 missions, a -20 L2 is better than a +20 L1), then repeat to get to level 3 and up.

IE - If you get a Storyline mission from, say, Core Complexions, you'll get a big rep boost with CC, and a smaller rep boost with the Minmatar Republic, because CC is a Minmatar Republic faction corp.

Your ability to get a higher level agent depends on your standing with their corp, or their corp's faction, whichever is higher. Also, training Connections boosts your effective reputation, making it easier to get higher-level agents faster.

Olive

07-02-2006, 08:30 PM

Meh, not for me. The aggressor/victim vibe was a drag -- I didn't want to be a victim OR an aggressor.

I found 0.4 space fine so far but regardless - isn't pirate hunting about killing the agressors? Or is that a different thing already?

Paul B

07-03-2006, 12:09 PM

I found 0.4 space fine so far but regardless - isn't pirate hunting about killing the agressors? Or is that a different thing already?

Yes, it is -- and I even participated in a fair amount of it. But it's hard to do, you have to be online when your corpmates are (had little luck finding a good pirate hunting corp in my time zone), you have to be online when the pirates are (mostly GMT + a few for Europe), and it's most successful when you gang up.

I had one very successful pirate-hunting expedition and it did feel like righteous justice (bad guys had a tackler-shooter team parked just inside deadspace at a tasty installation), but the work-to-fun ratio was all off. We went in with six ships -- three T2 frigate tacklers, a couple cruiser armor-healers, and a battlecruiser -- and it was radical overkill once the pirates were pinned down.

And any sort of fun IC "you got me this time but we'll meet again!" type exchange simply didn't happen. Got whined at in Danish, then whined at in English ("u snd 6 to gank us? lame"), and then one of them self-destructed, trying to get his pod out in time. Whole thing felt kind of dumb. Their corp didn't even bother sending any sort of missive back to us. C'mon, at least give us a grudge match!

Blah.

p.

Black Isis

07-03-2006, 12:21 PM

Yes, it is -- and I even participated in a fair amount of it. But it's hard to do, you have to be online when your corpmates are (had little luck finding a good pirate hunting corp in my time zone), you have to be online when the pirates are (mostly GMT + a few for Europe), and it's most successful when you gang up.

I had one very successful pirate-hunting expedition and it did feel like righteous justice (bad guys had a tackler-shooter team parked just inside deadspace at a tasty installation), but the work-to-fun ratio was all off. We went in with six ships -- three T2 frigate tacklers, a couple cruiser armor-healers, and a battlecruiser -- and it was radical overkill once the pirates were pinned down.

And any sort of fun IC "you got me this time but we'll meet again!" type exchange simply didn't happen. Got whined at in Danish, then whined at in English ("u snd 6 to gank us? lame"), and then one of them self-destructed, trying to get his pod out in time. Whole thing felt kind of dumb. Their corp didn't even bother sending any sort of missive back to us. C'mon, at least give us a grudge match!

Blah.
Heh. Yeah, most pirates whine when presented with anything close to a fair fight, but not all -- and as for trying to find a good antipirate corp in your time zone, I know we're trying to go after some pirates that seem to be most active during US Pacific time zones, so....

bubbles

07-03-2006, 07:03 PM

Just a quick point here... PvP in EVE sucks if you solo, because it's very difficult to even the score when you are one person versus a group (or corp, or alliance) of pirates. However, if you get into a decent corp or alliance it becomes a whole lot more fun because you always have the support there to get you back on your feet and exact explosive fiery vengeance on those that killed you. I have lost more ships in the last week than in the whole of the previous 6 months of play, yet I've never been as well off financially, or had as much fun, as I have this week. I still get ganked by enemy corps, but it doesn't matter because nine times out of ten we'll go and gank them straight back :)

I always think that one of the best features of EVE is that CCP have created an incredibly hostile and dangerous world, yet also made it so that players form very close-knit groups of friends and work together to achieve common goals. I don't think there are many other games that manage to balance the carebear and hardcore PvP aspects so well, while still making both of those a lot of fun :)

Olive

07-06-2006, 08:43 PM

Spacklemonkey

07-06-2006, 09:36 PM

Quick question - the evemails I get from various agents offering me "good deals" on trade goods or demanding other things - are they worth following up? And waht does it mean when it says that there is a loyalty point cost?

Anytime you do agent missions, you get loyalty points for that agent. These can be used for the trade goods they offer and in my experience, they aren't worth it. I have yet to find a good deal.

Black Isis

07-06-2006, 10:16 PM

Anytime you do agent missions, you get loyalty points for that agent. These can be used for the trade goods they offer and in my experience, they aren't worth it. I have yet to find a good deal.
You'll start getting better ones later one....most of the ones for implants are usually pretty decent; the 15k, 30k, and 60k LP implant offers are all usually worthwhile to take. Generally, figure 1 LP = 1000 ISK, and take anything where the offer will net you more on the market.

Olive

07-07-2006, 04:58 AM

Black Isis

07-07-2006, 06:19 AM

Does taking the deals and trading in my loyalty points hurt my standing with the corp?

In other news, I just got offered Worlds Colide. I will turn it down although the money is pretty nice for someone on a small frigate (250k if I do it promptly). But all the stories I have heard suggest that it isn't worth trying until I'm sure I can handle it.
Trading in your loyalty points does not affect your standing, just reduces your loyalty points (and the high loyalty point offers are generally better than the low ones).

Worlds Collide is a tough one -- I have heard it is doable with a good frig if you know what to expect and have a good setup, but I never actually did it when I was still flying frigs. I know the level 4 mission of the same name is completely brutal.

Tuxedo Mask

07-07-2006, 06:47 AM

To get lvl 2 missions, do you have to have the rep with a group at a certain rating, or just have done enough missions?

It's all done via effective rating (I say effective, because there are skills that effect it, you might want to invest in them, they are v.useful)

every 0.05 standing allows one higher quality agent, so a -20Q to +20Q spread is across 2.0 standing (40x0.05). -20Q of one level is the same as +20 of the level below, and -20Q L1 is available at -1.0 standing.

-1.0: -20Q L1
0.0: 0Q L1
1.0: +20Q L1, -20Q L2
2.0: 0Q L2
etc...
7.0 +20Q L4

And in theory, that extends up to 9.0 for +20Q L5, but currently L5 agents are disabled.

TM