[WoW] I actively dislike Vent and TS

[Plume]

I wasn't wild about the idea of voice communication for MMOs in the first place, but recognizing that I am a grumpy old fart (at almost 41, I am one of the older players in this crowd, and I vividly remember being in my teens and twenties trying to explain the merits of new stuff to older folks) I figured I'd give it a fair try. I've now had it on for 25 runs--raids, instances, group questing, the spread of things one does with high-level characters. My opinion is now if anything much harsher than it was when I began. It has never, on any of those run, been a net help to me. it's provided a few moments of novelty and a great many of distraction and annoyance.

I don't want to hear most of my teammates' voices. I don't want their voices breaking in erratically, intruding in a way that (for me) text on the same screen just doesn't. I hate the disgressions from cultures that aren't mine, and the music that drowns out the stuff I do listen to in order to pace myself and keep my mood focused. Voice has ended up reducing my respect for most of the people I group with, and I don't much like that. I find many verbal instructions more garbled than their text equivalents, and feel myself more likely to make mistakes based on misunderstandings about them.

Sure, I'm unusual in finding text easier to follow most of the time than voice. I'm not trying to claim normalcy here, or to dictate what anyone else should find helpful or useul. But the more I use it, the less I like it, and the more it seems to be the price of admission to activities I'm otherwise interested in, the more likely I find myself inclined to say "I'll skip it, because this takes away more of my fun than that will give me."

[bubbles]

Text may be easy to follow but voice is quicker.

Never used TeamSpeak in WoW but use it all the time in EVE Online, and my group would have been so dead, so often without it it wouldn't have been funny.

Sure, sometimes the guys I'm with annoy me and there are some I'd prefer not to listen to, but they're all good players, mostly good people, and the fun I have playing with them far outweighs the downside of actually having to listen to them sometimes.

TeamSpeak seems slightly unnecessary in WoW, though... other than in battlegrounds, where it can be a matchwinner :)

[J'Dai]

*hugs*
I've never liked the idea myself because:
- My choice of colorful metaphors is worse than an X-rating at times, and;
- I'm often playing while my husband is studying. In a small condo, that means I have to be quiet.

Good news is that my raiding guild (Bronzebeard) does NOT require or even suggest using either service. They say - their words, not mine - is that it's a tool for underprepared / poor players. It's nice to know there's no pressure to do something that I know I won't like.

FWIW, Plume, this old fart is only a step or two behind you. :)

[Ikselam]

I've found that voip stuff is only highly useful in raids. It is very helpful to be able to communicate without taking your hands off the buttons you use to control your character; you also don't have to constantly glance down to the chat panel to keep up on what's happening -- it moves group communication out of the already oversaturated visual channel, and into the relatively empty audio one.

In other, less hectic situations, it doesn't add all that much unless you feel like hearing your teammates' voices.

I don't want their voices breaking in erratically, intruding in a way that (for me) text on the same screen just doesn't. I hate the disgressions from cultures that aren't mine, and the music that drowns out the stuff I do listen to in order to pace myself and keep my mood focused.

Most of this sounds like poor etiquette, more than anything else. In most of my TS experience, the rule has always been, "use push-to-talk instead of voice-activation, and don't talk unless you're either the raid leader, or have some vitally important warning to call out." If someone's constantly blasting music over the channel, or comes through garbled, or whatever, they usually end up muted before too long.

[Ikselam]

They say - their words, not mine - is that it's a tool for underprepared / poor players.

If we redefine "underprepared" to mean "don't know every instance backwards, forwards, and inside-out," and "poor" to mean "not an extremely fast typist," then I agree with them 100%. :rolleyes:

[Professor Phobos]

It's come in handy the few times I've been in an instance w/ Blacksky, but it's never vital.

[Plume]

Most of this sounds like poor etiquette, more than anything else.

Not really--I think very few of the folks I want to spend time with are trying to be rude, or failing to think about it. A lot of it is simply cultural--different in-jokes and allusions, pronunciation quirks, and the like. When the spread of ages among players is 25 years and more, that happens, when we're all beign fairly casual. Part of it is that I'm a little hard of hearing; Dad has pretty severe tinnitus, and it runs in the family, and juggling the volume requirements of more apps is a nuisance.

As for raids...haven't seen it yet, and I've been on 12 trips to the Molten Core, Zul'Gurub, and the 20-person side of Ahn'Qiraj. The target markings and some other things help a lot. If anything, the ability to enlarge my text box and keep instructions available persistently is a big win for me.

Like I said, I'm not trying to tell anyone else what they ought to like or dislike. I've been dithering about posting this for a week because I know it is a help to so many people I like playing with. It's just that it isn't for me, and I don't see any way to fix that.

[Ikselam]

The target markings and some other things help a lot. If anything, the ability to enlarge my text box and keep instructions available persistently is a big win for me.

Yeah, the Frosted Lucky Charms were an incredibly useful addition. Combined with something like CTRaid's tank display, they cut out the need for about 90% of "okay, now attack THIS target" chatter.

[Copernicu]

It's vital in instances or fights where you simply can't take a 5-second pause to type things out. It also helps a great deal for learning an encounter, where we can deliver orders and strats quickly and effeciently, and also modify them on the fly.

[Ghostwise]

I hate the disgressions from cultures that aren't mine

Weird.

[Plume]

Weird.

I mean pop culture. One characteristic of mine that I actually don't think is at all weird is in feeling disoriented and/or just bored by the in-jokes and momentary fads from eras far removed from mine. A gap of even a few years can make the difference between feeling part of a joke and outside it.

[Plume]

It's vital in instances or fights where you simply can't take a 5-second pause to type things out. It also helps a great deal for learning an encounter, where we can deliver orders and strats quickly and effeciently, and also modify them on the fly.

Honestly, I do appreciate that it works that way for many players. I'm just saying that it's exactly the opposite--a nuisance, a distraction, a slowing down--for me.

[PaladinCA]

I have never developed a liking for them either.

Even on the FPS games like the Battlefield series, where I can obviously see the value in having them, I find them to be annoying.

There is something strange about hearing voices of people that you have never seen in your life talking to you like they actually "know" who you are. It feels a bit awkward for me to use Vent or TS. That is probably why I don't use them very often.

[Pariahic]

In my DAoC guild, we pretty much rely on vent for communication during pvp/rvr combat. Part of the reason this works for us, is the fact that we *like* everyone we let in our vent. I would (and do) hang out and talk to them in vent even when we aren't actively playing.

[IceShadow]

We're fixing some issues with the raiding Vent server on Blacksky. #1 is that it's a mute channel and I have to actively allow people to speak.

I have problems when people use the Vent server to just chat and such during a run. I understand that it's a social game, but for some of us it's more GAME than social, and we're hindered if you're talking about how your roommate is a jerk while we're trying to pull mobs.

Personally, I find it's of great use in the middle of fights, as people have stated. I absolutely LOVED it in ZG last Sunday. We marked six different snakes, five were crowd controlled, and one was initial target. As it fell, the only thing on the Vent server was me shouting out the shape of the next mark and so we concentrated on the snakes EXTREMELY well and felled them.

This would be possible with a good MA as well, but that takes more experience and training. For some reason, people actually pay attention when you shout "Square! Circle! Triangle! Skull!" instead of expecting them to hit a macro button to target what the MA is targeting.

[Plume]

For some reason, people actually pay attention when you shout "Square! Circle! Triangle! Skull!" instead of expecting them to hit a macro button to target what the MA is targeting.

I wonder, now that you mention it, whether some of this isn't my legacy of REALLY REALLY disliking shouting and other intense stuff like that, the legacy of abusive relationships in the past. I know that in real life, even happy shouting can put me on the edge of a fight-or-flight reflexive panic.

[IceShadow]

In any case, there's some truth that Vent can be a crutch for underprepared/poor players. But it can also be a tool to be used as well, and it enhances if you enjoy using it. We're not going to ban its use or require its use, just like we're not going to ban or require the use of potions (unless we hand them out of course). It's going to always be optional, but if only a couple of people AREN'T using it, then I'm going to be shouting orders mid-battle instead of typing them, and assume people without Vent can just figure out what's going on.

[Jigglypuff]

I was never a fan of Voice over video games.. Hy hatred of it came from XBOX Live Rainbow six 3 where swear words would fly like crazy. When I had younger relitaves come over I'd have to shut off the sound on games Like Battlefield 2 or planetside when we used team speak.

However blacksky has totally changed my opinion from the first time I used it. I have yet to hear anyone go on a swearing tangent on our channel, or say stupid stuff like the infamous "L2p N00B!".

It also helps me keep my focus. One reason I hate to tank is because I get terrible tunnel vision where I ignore everything (Chat windows and all) except the mob I'm attacking. When I'm not tanking I get distracted easyly and forget what I'm doing (As last night clearly showed with the coruptor stones :mad: ) When Blackbraid speaks the commands in Vent it's easier for me to remember what I'm suposed to be doing..

[Ghostwise]

I mean pop culture. One characteristic of mine that I actually don't think is at all weird is in feeling disoriented and/or just bored by the in-jokes and momentary fads from eras far removed from mine. A gap of even a few years can make the difference between feeling part of a joke and outside it.

I don't mind being outside of jokes and I find kids (people under, say, 25 or so) somewhat refreshing. I'd probably think the music or TV shows in questions are not my cuppa, but at least it's a change from what is already in my brain.

So to me it's weird, but I think you're cool anyways. :)

Don't like voice thingies either, but that's because for some reason my female characters tend to end up in guilds more than the male ones (I have a rough 50/50 ratio). It sort of feels weird for people, especially since I have a tendency to roleplay them even when not paying attention or necessary and most thus associate a female persona and voice to them.

I've had guildies who had a fairly precise mental image of what the voice of Gitane, my main EQ1 PC, sounded like - and I suppose if /rpgnet was more of a RP channel and I played more often, people would end up inventing a voice for Ms. Delamorte in their mind.

[eskatonic]

At first, I hated it. Having strangers talking in my living room while I'm on the computer was just . . . weird. Maybe it's because I am also something of an old coot.

But I got over it quickly, and it was very helpful when used correctly during the raid I went on.

Also, I kind of liked being able to actually hear my guildmates. I've played with you guys for a long time now. Actually, I wouldn't mind maybe using Ventrilo during just a regular evening's adventures sometimes, to say hello.

I've been practicing my "Morphew" voice for just such an occassion.

:D

eskatonic ("the MAGNIFICENT!")

[bubbles]

At first, I hated it. Having strangers talking in my living room while I'm on the computer was just . . . weird. Maybe it's because I am also something of an old coot.

But I got over it quickly, and it was very helpful when used correctly during the raid I went on.

Also, I kind of liked being able to actually hear my guildmates. I've played with you guys for a long time now. Actually, I wouldn't mind maybe using Ventrilo during just a regular evening's adventures sometimes, to say hello.

I've been practicing my "Morphew" voice for just such an occassion.

:D

eskatonic ("the MAGNIFICENT!")
The other thing I like about having TeamSpeak for our Alliance is the constant chat. Always someone to talk to, and always a different group to talk to if one channel gets too flamey (not often) :)

[J'Dai]

I wonder, now that you mention it, whether some of this isn't my legacy of REALLY REALLY disliking shouting and other intense stuff like that, the legacy of abusive relationships in the past. I know that in real life, even happy shouting can put me on the edge of a fight-or-flight reflexive panic.
You may be on to something. I feel the same way and, even if everyone else is having fun, if I am trying to focus I don't want to hear ANYONE! No /hugs, no 'atta-girls', NOTHING. When I need to concentrate everything esle is a distraction and an annoyance. Given the setting (tense / instances) I am prone to feeling rather cornered, even if the banter is loud and friendly.

If it's any consolation, I'm glad you posted this. I suspected that I'd feel much of the things that you have posted here. I learned - vicariously - and I appreciate you sharing your experience. :o

[CmdrSam]

I always felt it would break immersion so I never used it. My raid alliance (I saw someone else on here who was in the Cenarion Circle Raid Alliance? This is Andorion, hi) never required it.

So, we killed Ragnaros, Nefarian, Hakkar, and Ossirian without ever requiring voice-communication software, or using it for anything other than idle chatter.

[Ikselam]

I wonder, now that you mention it, whether some of this isn't my legacy of REALLY REALLY disliking shouting and other intense stuff like that

I'm not a fan of shouting, either, but it's more along the lines of, "dude, your voice is right in my ear, I can hear you even when you don't holler," with a side order of, "it's a game; chill out."

A raid leader who yells seems to hurt more than s/he helps; if you stay cool, everyone will remain calm and collected, and things will go smoothly -- if you shout, everyone will get tense and make mistakes. At least, that's how it works for me.

[d s addison]

We're fixing some issues with the raiding Vent server on Blacksky. #1 is that it's a mute channel and I have to actively allow people to speak.

Introducing this is the only reason I'm not going to give the thing the flick myself. On earlier raids I found all the side chatter intensely annoying (not to mention you Americans and your inability to pronounce simple english words ;) ). I want to hear instructions, that's all.

edit: fixing my inability to spell simple english words, ::sigh::

[Wakare]

I'm in the "dislike" camp as well, for a multitude of reasons. Primarily, I don't want to talk while I'm playing. I often play at the office or late at night, so noise is a factor, and I have a really nice pair of headphones that are way better than any mic/headphone combination I've seen. I also RP a fair bit and like to keep some distance between my voice and my character's voice. (Especially when I'm playing a chick.)

So I've used TS/Ventrillo for listening only (I just tell people I don't have a mic) and I've had mixed success with it. In Guild Wars it's certainly handy in PvP, if it's a disciplined group. I've even had some positive experiences in Counter Strike and BF2, but there's a pretty high "kiddie" to adult ratio. But it doesn't take long before I find myself reaching for the mute button.

I'm a fast typist and more than a little old school, so text is definitely my preferred means of communication. (It's hard to be a smart ass on a MUD if you can't type quickly and accurately.:D) I'm a fairly quiet person in RL until I get to know people, and that certainly carries over to virtual socializing.

[Elizabeth Brooks]

I wonder, now that you mention it, whether some of this isn't my legacy of REALLY REALLY disliking shouting and other intense stuff like that, the legacy of abusive relationships in the past. I know that in real life, even happy shouting can put me on the edge of a fight-or-flight reflexive panic.

This I can easily sympathize with. I don't react well to shouting, either.

Edit: I'm also not a big fan of TS/Vent. I like to interact through the game interface, and speech tends to be a distraction.

[Son of Kirk]

Our Guild uses TS a fair bit, but a fair few of us are RL friends and we've met a fair number of our other Guildies a couple times now at pubmeets.

It can be useful, but to be honest we tend to use it more for the social aspect and having a bit of fun.

You HAVE to make sure people are using push to talk though.

[Tylorva]

I quite like it, but I am learning how to effectively use it.

In my experience on the European servers, VOIP isn't used all that often, I think primarily because for most players, English isn't a first language. And in that situation, I think many people are more comfortable with typing and reading written English than trying to speak and listen. (Although not all. My RP partner, for instance, is Swedish and speaks better English than many English people!)

In my EU raid group, we have people from at least ten different countries, with varying levels of English (ranging from 'excellent' to 'understands enough to follow instructions'). We did try using Team Speak for a bit, but we never made it compulsary due to this language issue. As such maybe half the raid group joined, and so all raid instructions and important statements were given out as typed. The TS server just became for chat and eventually we just stopped using it.

My main experience with using Ventrilo with Blacksky is the love everyone seems to have for my accent! (And the word 'whilst') :D

[JustJo]

I rather like it. I like listening to my GM making laconic jokes in his croatian accent, and it is much easier to communicate mid-fight when you might not have time to type . It is good for getting people to bond, esp when none of us have ever met.

It's like anything, depends on the other people using it. If your guys spend all the time mswearing and whining about stuff, then it's going to be annoying for sure.

I don't understand this 'crutch for poor players' thing. You could say that about any addon with more justification.


(OK, I just like it when the Spanish guys are talking. I adore that accent ...)

[Son of Kirk]

I've heard a couple people use the 'crutch' complaint about TS before, but invariably they were people with mods out the ying-yang, which always struck me as very odd, as mods, well, make the game easier for you.

I think it depends on your Guild really, what they want out of the game, their personalities, etc. We use TS even when we are soloing, the banter is nice.

However, we do realise that not everyone likes it so on most instances we cut the banter down or out altogether. One of our main healers has a habit of screaming like a girl if he gets hit.

As the MT, I find it useful for changing tactics mid fight and for shouting at the hunters when they start crit'ing before I've even got the first sunder in on the boss.

[BlakeT]

I never could stand adding the voice programs to games. I understand that it can make things quicker, especially in situations where the chatter is held to a minimum, I just would rather not hear voices and have to speak to everyone.

Sometimes the wife is in the room reading, or maybe playing WoW in a different place than I am and she doesn't need to hear me or twenty other people arguing about a raid issue, or whatever.

I used to pretend I couldn't get the thing to run on my PC so I could just avoid it altogether. Or I couldn't get the microphone to work and I'd just listen to the commands.

Probably the same reason that I lasted a month with Xbox Live. Just no interest in hearing people, especially a slew of teenagers, argue.

[IceShadow]

Or I couldn't get the microphone to work and I'd just listen to the commands.
I think it's very important to note that this use is almost as good as actually being able to speak.

Like I said, we mute our channel during raids now, and only allow certain people to speak.

[Des]

I've heard a couple people use the 'crutch' complaint about TS before, but invariably they were people with mods out the ying-yang, which always struck me as very odd, as mods, well, make the game easier for you.

I think it depends on your Guild really, what they want out of the game, their personalities, etc. We use TS even when we are soloing, the banter is nice.

However, we do realise that not everyone likes it so on most instances we cut the banter down or out altogether. One of our main healers has a habit of screaming like a girl if he gets hit.

As the MT, I find it useful for changing tactics mid fight and for shouting at the hunters when they start crit'ing before I've even got the first sunder in on the boss.

Yeah, the "crutch" argument never held water for me either. Besides the oddity of having other mods, a crutch implies that somehow the TS or Vent is going to hold you back in some fashion. Which, yanno...its not. If the raid group learns to listen for commands during raids, or to watch for them typing is a matter of preference, not some objectively better or worse. And its not like there's some boss out there that is going to disable your voice chat as part of the scripting for the fight, so its not like you'll ever be without it.

Personally, I like using vent. Its handy for a lot of things, most notably being able to point out when some crucial member has gone down or if someone needs to step up and take over banish duty or the like for me. Necessary? No. But quite handy.

[nonsense]

Also, I kind of liked being able to actually hear my guildmates. I've played with you guys for a long time now. Actually, I wouldn't mind maybe using Ventrilo during just a regular evening's adventures sometimes, to say hello.

Yeah, I need to remember to install Vent for mostly these reasons. I had a bit of fun bantering on Team Speak back when, and it was handy in Battlegrounds too as a much quicker means of relaying important information (like: Those idiots didn't leave a guard! Take the flag! TAKE THE FLAG!).

And I, for one, am very curious to hear the Morphew voice. :)

[IceShadow]

Yeah, the "crutch" argument never held water for me either. Besides the oddity of having other mods, a crutch implies that somehow the TS or Vent is going to hold you back in some fashion. Which, yanno...its not. If the raid group learns to listen for commands during raids, or to watch for them typing is a matter of preference, not some objectively better or worse. And its not like there's some boss out there that is going to disable your voice chat as part of the scripting for the fight, so its not like you'll ever be without it.

Personally, I like using vent. Its handy for a lot of things, most notably being able to point out when some crucial member has gone down or if someone needs to step up and take over banish duty or the like for me. Necessary? No. But quite handy.
I'm pretty much in agreement with you. The crutch comment is about learning...I.E. if you always have someone shouting out which enemy to attack now, you'll never have to learn to assist properly, or if every lava spawn is shouted out, you'll never have to learn to look for them yourself, etc. Which I think is a stupid argument myself...I mean, one of our guildies related the story of her guild on another server, where the GM didn't allow the use of potions because he felt it acted as a crutch to learning to play. Bwuh?

[Des]

I'm pretty much in agreement with you. The crutch comment is about learning...I.E. if you always have someone shouting out which enemy to attack now, you'll never have to learn to assist properly, or if every lava spawn is shouted out, you'll never have to learn to look for them yourself, etc. Which I think is a stupid argument myself...I mean, one of our guildies related the story of her guild on another server, where the GM didn't allow the use of potions because he felt it acted as a crutch to learning to play. Bwuh?

Yeah, there are some weird ideas out there. One of our raiding tanks has a story about the first guild he raided MC in. Their GM tried to disallow the warriors to use taunt, because it was a "crutch when we get to Ony and BWL".

That one I could almost see, as learning aggro management and control sans taunt *is* one of the big challenges of the Ony and BWL fights, but still...

[IceShadow]

Yeah, there are some weird ideas out there. One of our raiding tanks has a story about the first guild he raided MC in. Their GM tried to disallow the warriors to use taunt, because it was a "crutch when we get to Ony and BWL".

That one I could almost see, as learning aggro management and control sans taunt *is* one of the big challenges of the Ony and BWL fights, but still...
I could see doing this occassionally just to learn it, but yeah. "Let's let the raid wipe here because I want to prove a point!" doesn't usually fly with me.

[JustJo]

I could see doing this occassionally just to learn it, but yeah. "Let's let the raid wipe here because I want to prove a point!" doesn't usually fly with me.

I have fond memories of the first time we got Garr down in MC. After that, you start to meet your first lava pack (a bunch of random fire and earth elementals that will try to mess with your raid in various amusing ways). We had a brief discussion in raid chat about whether we wanted to pack up for the day or try a couple more pulls to see what the trash mobs were like and, being all punch drunk from having got halfway through MC, decided on the latter.

Just after the pull, we get this laid back comment on TS from the raid leader, "I'm off for a cigarette, have fun wiping on the lava pack."

(It was funny at the time.)

Anyway we did wipe of course, but the next week we went back and had a better idea of why everyone kept nagging us to get fire res gear and what we had to do. So it did kind of work ;)

[wdarkk]

Our vent is fairly quiet, except for certain situations.

"Is anyone else lagging?"
"I think we all are."
"Uh-oh."

Then we wait 4 minutes to wipe.

Other than that, we've started using it to convey very time-sensitive information.
For example, the Instructor Razuvious fight requires the priests to mind control mobs to tank the boss (I posted on this earlier). We're using vent to call out mind control breaks so that the tanks can save the priests from their mob (in theory, we're working on this).

[Allon]

"Hey guys, a hostile fleet just warped into the system, looks like they're forming up on the gate. I'm counting 10 tackler frigs, 3 interceptors, about 20 cruisers for tanks.
Better get the miners inside, and into some combat ships.
Oh man, there are about 8 sniping Battleships warping in now, staying at a distance 100 clicks, interceptors taking position among them to ward off warpers. Looks like they brought in 3 dreadnoughts as well, so they're going for our station. Actually, cancel all those orders, we're fucked anyway because I'm a moron who took the time to type all this out."

Typing your shit is all very well in a PvE game, but for PvP you need voicecom.

[Ian ORourke]

Well, I'm a big fan of the voice comms, for two reasons:

1. It's very useful in raid instances.

2. It makes the guild smaller.

As The Dungeoneers have grown significantly from the friends who knew each other in real life who created it, the voice comms has done a vast amount to make the guild less impersonal, and reduced a lot of conflict as a result.

[ascendance]

I've done voip, and I find I don't like it much in small group content (and this is with mature people who I respect and like, so there isn't even the usual annoyances with rudeness). Because it's easy to talk, it's easy to talk and talk, and go over the strat for every pull, and because so much time is spend discussing, quite often, people get impatient and screw up.

I really think people perform better if the expectation is that everyone knows what they're doing. This doesn't mean you don't talk about strategy and what to do, of course. It just means the people who know what's going shouldn't micromanage, and it's boring to run over the strat for the 5th similar pull.

[Scoundrel]

I don't use them for two reasons:

1) I have dialup, and thus my lack of bandwidth disturbs me.

2) I tend to RP female characters as much as I do male ones. Having a petite young cheerleader from Rhode Island (CoH) speak with a deep texas lilt would be a bit... odd.

[woodsmoke]

See, I couldn't imagine audibly speaking for my character in an RP situation. I like the idea of being able to chat with my buddies as we're playing, but VOIP stuff strikes me as the ultimate OOC, because for anyone who's not a voice actor there's an absolute minimum room for suspension of disbelief.

...Of course, it could also have something to do with the fact that my eloquence in writing makes my speech sound all the more like the "silent consonants" western dialect it is. :o

[IceShadow]

I have never heard of a VoIP program being used in character. Ever.

Not to say it's not done, but I've never come across it.

[eskatonic]

I tend to RP female characters as much as I do male ones. Having a petite young cheerleader from Rhode Island (CoH) speak with a deep texas lilt would be a bit... odd.

Not here in San Francisco.

:D

eskatonic