[Heroclix] Just Starting

[Mantisking]

So my brother picked up a Heroclix Leader set the other day. I'd been thinking about trying this game for a while, so I grabbed one too. Ended up with Black Knight (r), Juggernaut (r), and Shocker (r) in my booster. I've been looking at the Powers/Abilities card, and I'll probably read the rules tomorrow.

Hopefully I get to play soon. :)

[Christopher Tatro]

You're up in Lowell? I know Pandemonium Books & Games in Cambridge has a number fo events coming up, including a big "Let's Dogpile on Galactus" thing tomorrow night. If you check the Wizkids website there should be a place to look up local places that are having events, including "new guy" nights.

[Mantisking]

You're up in Lowell?Yup.

I know Pandemonium Books & Games in Cambridge has a number fo events coming up, including a big "Let's Dogpile on Galactus" thing tomorrow night.Unfortunately, I'm working tomorrow night.

If you check the Wizkids website there should be a place to look up local places that are having events, including "new guy" nights.Cool, thanks.

[VoiceOfIsaac]

If you have any questions about rules, just ask. I'm a registered Envoy for Wizkids, and a couple of other people here are also either Envoys or former Envoys themselves.

It's a fun game. :)

- Isaac!

[Lazarus]

If you have any questions about rules, just ask. I'm a registered Envoy for Wizkids, and a couple of other people here are also either Envoys or former Envoys themselves.
I passed my Envoy Test, though I haven't done the HeroClix test, and haven't asked to be sponsored (I don't see a point, but I can talk to the judges at my venue, see if he'd like having someone else around ... besides Angus, that is, who can only show up to judge once a month or so).

Still, getting 84.25% on the test at 4AM a while ago was reasonably good, I think. If I ever wanted to seriously judge, I'd redo the test.

Laz

[Mantisking]

If you have any questions about rules, just ask.I have a question about Soaring. Is it useful for more than bypassing terrain? Because it seems there are more drawbacks than advantages to Soaring.

I'm a registered Envoy for Wizkids, and a couple of other people here are also either Envoys or former Envoys themselves.Cool!

It's a fun game. :)Seems like. :)

[VoiceOfIsaac]

I have a question about Soaring. Is it useful for more than bypassing terrain? Because it seems there are more drawbacks than advantages to Soaring.




Originally, Soaring was of limited usefulness. You could bypass terrain, you can't trade melee attack grounded or hovering characters, and if someone grounded or hovering wants to range-attack you, their range is halved. There are some clever ways to use it with Running Shot or Charge -- soar towards enemy territory, reducing their ability to pick you off as you approach -- but there are some relatively newer figures that put Soaring to some frightfully effective use.

To wit -- anyone with Hypersonic Speed, Flight, and for added insult, a decent ranged attack. This is a dangerous combo, and Superman is the worst example of having all three.

Basically, you can have a character zoom in, blast someone at range, and then *retreat* and go into Soaring. Serious pain in the butt, because it makes the Soaring shooter very difficult to counterattack.

To counter this tactic, the HSS rules now state that if you use a ranged attack from HSS, your range is *halved*, which is a help, but the tactic is still useful.

Also, there is a feat card called Divebomb that allows a soaring character to do melee attacks on grounded figures, something they normally can't do.

- Isaac!

[Corinthi]

To wit -- anyone with Hypersonic Speed, Flight, and for added insult, a decent ranged attack. This is a dangerous combo, and Superman is the worst example of having all three.

Basically, you can have a character zoom in, blast someone at range, and then *retreat* and go into Soaring. Serious pain in the butt, because it makes the Soaring shooter very difficult to counterattack.

To counter this tactic, the HSS rules now state that if you use a ranged attack from HSS, your range is *halved*, which is a help, but the tactic is still useful.

Also, there is a feat card called Divebomb that allows a soaring character to do melee attacks on grounded figures, something they normally can't do.

- Isaac!

Assuming the Soaring Figure doesn't have a Fortitude card attached, the best counter is to simply run up and Outwit whatever movement power would allow them to attack. Then, they're forced to try to spend turns moving to get in a position where they can attack. The Fortitude feat card renders the bearer immune to Outwit and can be annoying to get around.

Mantisking, try to track down a Danger Room Starter. $15 MSRP, has the very latest rules iteration which just became effective today, 7-12-06, and it's rulebook is the best formatted and clearest yet for Heroclix. The pieces are quite decent, with the exception of Colossus, and the map is /excellent/. Much better than the dinky map that came in the Universe Starter.

Colossus, sadly, has never been treated all that well in Clix and the starter version of him is almost an insult. It plays fine within the confines of the starter set itself, but when compared to the game as a whole, it's really, really bad.

[Mantisking]

Originally, Soaring was of limited usefulness. You could bypass terrain, you can't trade melee attack grounded or hovering characters, and if someone grounded or hovering wants to range-attack you, their range is halved. There are some clever ways to use it with Running Shot or Charge -- soar towards enemy territory, reducing their ability to pick you off as you approach -- but there are some relatively newer figures that put Soaring to some frightfully effective use.

To wit -- anyone with Hypersonic Speed, Flight, and for added insult, a decent ranged attack. This is a dangerous combo, and Superman is the worst example of having all three.

Basically, you can have a character zoom in, blast someone at range, and then *retreat* and go into Soaring. Serious pain in the butt, because it makes the Soaring shooter very difficult to counterattack.

To counter this tactic, the HSS rules now state that if you use a ranged attack from HSS, your range is *halved*, which is a help, but the tactic is still useful.

Also, there is a feat card called Divebomb that allows a soaring character to do melee attacks on grounded figures, something they normally can't do.

- Isaac!I thought you couldn't use Ranged Attacks against non-soaring opponents? Unless your shifting to Hover in the middle of that combo?

Assuming the Soaring Figure doesn't have a Fortitude card attached, the best counter is to simply run up and Outwit whatever movement power would allow them to attack. Then, they're forced to try to spend turns moving to get in a position where they can attack. The Fortitude feat card renders the bearer immune to Outwit and can be annoying to get around.That would be assuming I've got characters with Outwit. :D

Mantisking, try to track down a Danger Room Starter. $15 MSRP, has the very latest rules iteration which just became effective today, 7-12-06, and it's rulebook is the best formatted and clearest yet for Heroclix. The pieces are quite decent, with the exception of Colossus, and the map is /excellent/. Much better than the dinky map that came in the Universe Starter.Once I've got some spare change I'll pick it up then.

Colossus, sadly, has never been treated all that well in Clix and the starter version of him is almost an insult. It plays fine within the confines of the starter set itself, but when compared to the game as a whole, it's really, really bad.Hunh. That's odd.

[MadCow]

That would be assuming I've got characters with Outwit. :D

Batman! :D

[Lazarus]

Hey, Corinthi, I played last week (judge ruled in Danger Room/Sinister) with Danger Room, minus Beast and Storm, plus Sinister U Wolvie.

Colossus was very much worth his points on that team. Wolvie was the main draw of enemy fire, allowing Colossus to go in next with objects and stuff, supported by Angel. The C + A teamup worked well. He's not actually a bad or horrible figure ... he's just not really what one thinks about when one thinks "Colossus".

Sadly, Wolverine didn't actually get to do much at all, normally being taken down the turn or two after he charges up. *sigh*.

Interestingly, the two awesome cleanup figures were Jean Grey and Cyclops. I would have figured that from Cyke, but Jean was a surprise to me.

Of course, most games I played were on the Sinister map, which helped me a lot, I think, with the team - the flaws of the close combat guys didn't show up that much. The most irritating one was on an Atlantis Rising Junkyard, against R,E (or was it EV?) CD Supes. He was actually surprisingly easy to take down, in both forms. The E, IIRC, was the one Jean took down.

So, all in all, I like all the figures from Danger Room (well, haven't tried Beast and Storm, but they were used against me two weeks ago, and they seemed good).

Laz

[Mantisking]

Batman! :DI have yet to buy any DC starters/boosters, even though I prefer DC characters. :) I'll probably go a little nuts if my brother and I both enjoy the game.

[VoiceOfIsaac]

I thought you couldn't use Ranged Attacks against non-soaring opponents? Unless your shifting to Hover in the middle of that combo?



Exactly. You start in soaring, and then as your Running Shot or Charge starts up, you shift down into hovering and attack.

- Isaac

[Mantisking]

Okay, could someone explain what good Combat Reflexes is?

[VoiceOfIsaac]

Okay, could someone explain what good Combat Reflexes is?

Under the old rules (as presented in ICONS and all sets prior), no good whatsoever. If someone attacks you, can choose to be knocked back by it, and if you hit a wall or whatnot, you take no damage from knockback. Very limited utility, especially when placed on the last click of a figure. The power was a joke.

Under the new rules, which went into effect just yesterday, and are available online now or in the Danger Room starter set -- it is GODLY good. In addition to the knockback effect above, it now grants +2 to defense against close combat attacks -- essentially the opposite of Energy Shield/Deflection. It's also a very cheap power, from the looks of things. This means that cheap characters like Mockingbird (the rookie costs under 20 points) can get up in someone's face with Leap Climb to tie them up -- and have a *19* defense against that character's melee attacks (17 natural +2). That's pretty damn awesome for a character that costs under 20 points.

In essence, Tie-Up pieces have now become an even more solid tactical option with this power.

There's also a version of Spider-Man out there (the Armor Wars unique) that has a mid-dial 18 defense with Combat Reflexes -- so get him in someone's face and he's got a TWENTY defense! It is to love.

- Isaac!

[Mantisking]

Under the old rules (as presented in ICONS and all sets prior), no good whatsoever. If someone attacks you, can choose to be knocked back by it, and if you hit a wall or whatnot, you take no damage from knockback. Very limited utility, especially when placed on the last click of a figure. The power was a joke.That's what I thought.

Under the new rules, which went into effect just yesterday, and are available online now or in the Danger Room starter set -- it is GODLY good. In addition to the knockback effect above, it now grants +2 to defense against close combat attacks -- essentially the opposite of Energy Shield/Deflection. It's also a very cheap power, from the looks of things. This means that cheap characters like Mockingbird (the rookie costs under 20 points) can get up in someone's face with Leap Climb to tie them up -- and have a *19* defense against that character's melee attacks (17 natural +2). That's pretty damn awesome for a character that costs under 20 points.!@#$%^&* I wish I knew about this tonight, it might have saved my Elektra. :(

There's also a version of Spider-Man out there (the Armor Wars unique) that has a mid-dial 18 defense with Combat Reflexes -- so get him in someone's face and he's got a TWENTY defense! It is to love.:eek: Eep!

BTW, an update; My brother and I played tonight. He took the good team and I the bad. I got my ass handed to me. The Sinister Syndicate ability on Hobgoblin compared to the Spiderman ability is useless. There's not enough variance in initial Attack levels on the bad guy team.

Also, another question; is Hovering considered outside of Close-Combat Range?

[VoiceOfIsaac]

No. A hovering character adjacent to a grounded character CAN be attacked by close combat attacks, and use close combat attacks himself.

In addition, both characters would also be allowed to use ranged combat attacks on each other, something they would NOT be able to do when adjacent if both of them were grounded.

- Isaac

[Mantisking]

No. A hovering character adjacent to a grounded character CAN be attacked by close combat attacks, and use close combat attacks himself.Okay. That's what we went with.

[Mantisking]

Okay, I've got another question. Is there something I'm missing about Stealth? I've been reading some heroclix articles and it gets played up like it functions all the time, rather than just when the character is in Hindering Terrain. Did it get changed?

[VoiceOfIsaac]

Okay, I've got another question. Is there something I'm missing about Stealth? I've been reading some heroclix articles and it gets played up like it functions all the time, rather than just when the character is in Hindering Terrain. Did it get changed?

You do *not* have to be *in* hindering terrain for it to work. That's the easiest way to make it work, but the rule is this:

If the *line of fire* from the shooter to you crosses hindering terrain at all (including the terrain you're standing), then that hindering terrain acts as blocking terrain, i.e. No Line Of Sight can be drawn. So if you're standing on one side of a bush and you have stealth, and the shooter is on the other side of the bush and is trying to shoot at you through said bush, Stealth will prevent that from happenning.

- Isaac

[mjchung]

Okay, I've got another question. Is there something I'm missing about Stealth? I've been reading some heroclix articles and it gets played up like it functions all the time, rather than just when the character is in Hindering Terrain. Did it get changed?
Most maps have enough hindering terrain that there is somewhere reasonable to hide in. So I suspect that in these articles the author simply assumes that since a character with stealth can hide, that they will.

[VoiceOfIsaac]

Most maps have enough hindering terrain that there is somewhere reasonable to hide in. So I suspect that in these articles the author simply assumes that since a character with stealth can hide, that they will.


Also, don't forget that an object token is considered Hindering Terrain. A favorite tactic of many people is to put an object token on the corner of elevated terrain, that a stealthed sniper can sit on. Since they can't be shot back because of stealth, they can sit up there all day and take potshots at everyone in sight.

- Isaac!

[Mantisking]

[Uncle from JCA voice] One more question.[/Uncle from JCA voice] :)

Character A with Flight is carrying Character B with Super-Strength. They become adjacent to an Object Token during their movement. Can Character B use a Free Action and pick up the Object Token?

[VoiceOfIsaac]

[Uncle from JCA voice] One more question.[/Uncle from JCA voice] :)

Character A with Flight is carrying Character B with Super-Strength. They become adjacent to an Object Token during their movement. Can Character B use a Free Action and pick up the Object Token?


No.

Fliers cannot carry someone who is already carrying an object.

A flier with superstrength *can* carry both an object and a passenger at the same time, however, but only the flier can use it, even if the passenger also has superstrength.

- Isaac

[Corinthi]

Character A with Flight is carrying Character B with Super-Strength. They become adjacent to an Object Token during their movement. Can Character B use a Free Action and pick up the Object Token?

No, for a different reason than Isaac offered. Character B is being carried. While being carried, he's effectively off the board and cannot affect the game until he's sat down again. He can't pick up the object because he's not in the game right then.

Now, later, if he takes his own action, trots over and picks up the object, that's cool, but now the flyer can't pick him up as Isaac's already mentioned.

[Mantisking]

No. Fliers cannot carry someone who is already carrying an object.The thing is Character B doesn't have it at the start, he's getting it enroute. If anything, I'd say it just stops the move at the object as if it was an adjacency to an opposing figure.

A flier with superstrength *can* carry both an object and a passenger at the same time, however, but only the flier can use it, even if the passenger also has superstrength.Now that doesn't make sense. The Super-Strength flier can carry an object and a passenger, but not a passenger with an object.

[Mantisking]

Oh. I'd like to say "thank you" to everyone for the answers to my questions. :)

[MadCow]

Now that doesn't make sense. The Super-Strength flier can carry an object and a passenger, but not a passenger with an object.
Well, it's like D&D - "it doesn't make sense, but rules are rules." :D

Not being able to shoot while soaring also doesn't make sense, but that's the rule and there's reasoning behind it.

[PTiKachu]

Well, it's like D&D - "it doesn't make sense, but rules are rules." :D

Not being able to shoot while soaring also doesn't make sense, but that's the rule and there's reasoning behind it.
Namely "Come Down And Fight Like A Man!" Otherwise Darkseid or Green Lantern could just park himself in Soaring and nuke the site from orbit. :)

[Fugitive Unknown]

I just got into this, picked up a crapload of models that I thought I might like trying... (now I find out even more of em are retired... good thing I wasn't planning on playing any tournaments)

I got the Suicide Squad (Blockbuster, Enchantress, Killer Frost, Deadshot and non team Aresenal to fill out the ranks)

I got green lantern taxi service (sinestro with 4 U men and 4 HDC Troopers)

And I got Batman Enemies and a whole bunch of assorted figures.

Any recommended tips for someone starting out? Are any of those armies particularly playable / unplayable?

[PTiKachu]

Any recommended tips for someone starting out? Are any of those armies particularly playable / unplayable?

Suicide Squad is nice, though it isn't the greatest team ability. Killer Frost is good for Barrier, and Deadshot is a good ranged attacker for his points. MadCow puts him on EVERY team. But then again, MadCow's sanity is questionable. ;)

[Keith Burkhead]

I just got into this, picked up a crapload of models that I thought I might like trying... (now I find out even more of em are retired... good thing I wasn't planning on playing any tournaments)

I got the Suicide Squad (Blockbuster, Enchantress, Killer Frost, Deadshot and non team Aresenal to fill out the ranks)

I got green lantern taxi service (sinestro with 4 U men and 4 HDC Troopers)

And I got Batman Enemies and a whole bunch of assorted figures.

Any recommended tips for someone starting out? Are any of those armies particularly playable / unplayable?


A problem for the Bat Enemies as a team is their lack of mobility-no TK that I can think of, only 2 fliers (ManBat and R Azrael). There have been 2 versions of ManBat, find the Icons Starter one if you can, he brings a lot to the table for the cost-Charge, BCF, and a flier.

They have a relative lack of big hitter bricks as well-a V Bane and V Killer Croc are good choices here.

Oops-forgot the V Clayface from Collateral Damage-one fo the ultimate tie-up pieces in the game-several clicks of Plasticity and Shape Change-can bring the pain a bit too with several clicks of SS and a couple of Exploit Weakness. AV need some help, but that what are the brillant villians are for.

Lots of smarts on this team-several figures with Outwit, Perplex, and Mastermind-some good candidates for Brillant Tactician.

Find the V Legacy Joker if you can-really wild dial, but it captures the spirit of the Joker perfectly-you never know what he's going to do next.

When playing the Bat Enemies as team you'll want to take full advantage of their team ability to make sure you hit-share that AV!

Later,
KB

[Corinthi]

Suicide Squad
Get yourself some cheapy pogs and play them with the squad. When your squaddies are getting hurt, push an adjacent pog to death and *boom* instant healing. Blockbuster and Arsenal aren't my favorites, but Enchantress, Killer Frost, and Deadshot are fine. Vet Enchantress, in particular, has become pretty awesome with the changes in Sinister. Between Shapechange and Supersenses, she has a definite knack for avoiding pain. Drop a Camouflage feat card on her and she's awesome.

Green Lantern Taxi Service
Not a great Green Lantern tank. Sinestro's attack is only a 9, his range and running shot isn't as long as the actual Green Lanterns, and he lacks the Willpower than makes the Hal Jordan Green Lantern pretty fearsome.
That said, the HDC Police will add a nice +3 to his attack and the UMen will add up to +3 on his damage. Just keep the Rule of Three in mind. No stat can be modified by more than 3 points, and that includes things like RCE.
This isn't a bad team, it's just not as streamlined as a Hal Jordan GL Tank with Hand Ninja and UMen/Hive Troopers.

Batman Enemies
I love playing Batman Enemy teams, because as long as I have one good, undamaged figure, the entire team is still dangerous. Without knowing specific figures, I can't give detailed advice. I will say the ICONS Starter has some fantastic Batman Enemies in it. Joker with his cheap 10 Attack, Harley with her 9, Manbat with his Charge and Blades. Excellent additions to the team.

Also, Vet and LE Harley Quinn from Hypertime qualify as Brilliant Tacticians due to thier end dial Outwit. Always good for a surprise.

[Fugitive Unknown]

Cards are a definate good suggestion - keep in mind I have no idea where to find em .

[Keith Burkhead]

Cards are a definate good suggestion - keep in mind I have no idea where to find em .

Cards are most important in you're interested in the tournament scene at all...they add what I think is a nice layer of complexity, but the game can certainly be played without them, and that's how I usually play friendly games.

As to picking them up-they come in boosters, some retail stores sell singles (and single figures as well), or you can get them online. Often on ebay you can find all the cards from a single set in a package for a good price. Some of the more powerful cards go for a pretty good price online as singles-ICWO, Protected, those kinds of things.

And I think you can print some of the cards off the Wizkids site, and more and more venues even accept those as tournament legal.

BTW, a good heroclix site is www.hcrealms.com lots of forums for all aspects fo the game, and usually pretty newb friendly.

Good luck!

KB

[Mantisking]

Well, it's like D&D - "it doesn't make sense, but rules are rules." :D

Not being able to shoot while soaring also doesn't make sense, but that's the rule and there's reasoning behind it.Namely "Come Down And Fight Like A Man!" Otherwise Darkseid or Green Lantern could just park himself in Soaring and nuke the site from orbit. :)I can understand that there are game balance issues involved. But it doesn't make it any less annoying. :)

[Lazarus]

I can understand that there are game balance issues involved. But it doesn't make it any less annoying. :)
Have you looked at Elevated Terrain yet?

I still prefer maps with no ET simply because I really don't like the way that works.

Laz

[Mantisking]

Have you looked at Elevated Terrain yet?I've read the Terrain sections in the rules. I think it'll be a bit wonky in my head until we use it in a game.

I still prefer maps with no ET simply because I really don't like the way that works.We're still using the basic outdoors map that comes with the starter.