[d&d 3.5] Fine, Diminutive and Tiny races.

[Aohd]

Just a quick question.

What are my options for a level one P.C. race that is of one of these sizes?

I would prefer one that has a level ajustment of 1 or 0.

[mrlost]

Doesn't Monte Cooks Arcana Unearthed have fairies? Faene or Fae. I think they are Tiny creatures. With wings, I remember they have wings.

[Sam Greene]

In the MM, the only thing I can find is the grig, which is a whopping ECL 4.

I think, like the "Large" category and whatnot, that size of character is usually out of the range of starting characters. You could probably swing an Awakened monkey or cat (as a DM, I'd allow it, easy, due to the whole 'not being human' thing and limited equipment selection, not to mention the fun of having an animal character) but there are relatively few smaller humanoids without scads of fey-style spell like abilities that bump up LA/ECL.

[Erstwhile]

Doesn't Monte Cooks Arcana Unearthed have fairies? Faene or Fae. I think they are Tiny creatures. With wings, I remember they have wings.

It does - the Faen. However, they start out as Small humanoids. It's only when they take their third "racial level" as a Faen that they become a Spryte (Tiny size).

So to be smaller than Small, you have an effective ECL of +3. :) Though you get some neat stuff as part of your racial levels.

[DanMcS]

I'm not aware of any. Someone else mentioned the Spryte from Arcana Unearthed. It's actually not available at 1st level, you start off as a small fae and progress into it, it seems.

That said, make one up? The reason most little races are level-adjusted is because they have extra powers. So make one without the powers.

Garden Gnome (Tiny Humanoid)

These minute gnomes are much like their larger cousins, and often live in the same settlements. They also occasionally live in human or halfling areas, eking out an existance as tailors, cleaners, and performing other jobs in which their small size is a benefit.

* +2 Constitution, -2 Strength. (Vary to taste).
* Tiny size. +2 bonus to Armor Class, +2 bonus on attack rolls, +8 bonus on Hide checks, -8 penalty on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits 1/2 those of Medium characters. Space is 2 1/2 feet and reach is 0 feet.
* A garden gnome’s base land speed is 20 feet.
* Low-light vision.
* +2 racial bonus on saving throws against illusions.
* Add +1 to the Difficulty Class for all saving throws against illusion spells cast by gnomes. This adjustment stacks with those from similar effects, such as the Spell Focus feat.
* +1 racial bonus on attack rolls against kobolds and goblinoids (including goblins, hobgoblins, and bugbears).
* +4 dodge bonus to Armor Class against creatures of the giant type (such as ogres, trolls, and hill giants).
* +2 racial bonus on Listen checks.
* +2 racial bonus on Craft (alchemy) checks.
* Automatic Languages: Common, Gnome. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Goblin, Orc.
* Spell-Like Abilities: 1/day—speak with animals (burrowing mammal only, duration 1 minute). A gnome with a Charisma score of at least 10 also has the following spell-like abilities: 1/day—dancing lights, ghost sound, prestidigitation. Caster level 1st; save DC 10 + gnome’s Cha modifier + spell level.
* Favored Class: Bard.

Anything inherently unbalanced about that? I think the bonus to AC and attack is counterbalanced by the 0' reach and massive grapple penalty, really.

Call it something less silly if you like, but I think this would be fun to play. Charge into battle on the back of your trained badger, 2' lance at the ready! Tumble beneath the ogre's legs as the big oaf loses track of you! This would be awesome.

[Christopher V. Brady]

I'm not aware of any. Someone else mentioned the Spryte from Arcana Unearthed. It's actually not available at 1st level, you start off as a small fae and progress into it, it seems.

That said, make one up? The reason most little races are level-adjusted is because they have extra powers. So make one without the powers.

Garden Gnome (Tiny Humanoid)

These minute gnomes are much like their larger cousins, and often live in the same settlements. They also occasionally live in human or halfling areas, ekeing out an existance as tailors, cleaners, and perfroming other jobs in which their small size is a benefit.

* +2 Constitution, -2 Strength. (Vary to taste).
* Tiny size. +2 bonus to Armor Class, +2 bonus on attack rolls, +8 bonus on Hide checks, -8 penalty on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits 1/2 those of Medium characters. Space is 2 1/2 feet and reach is 0 feet.
* A garden gnome’s base land speed is 20 feet.
* Low-light vision.
* +2 racial bonus on saving throws against illusions.
* Add +1 to the Difficulty Class for all saving throws against illusion spells cast by gnomes. This adjustment stacks with those from similar effects, such as the Spell Focus feat.
* +1 racial bonus on attack rolls against kobolds and goblinoids (including goblins, hobgoblins, and bugbears).
* +4 dodge bonus to Armor Class against creatures of the giant type (such as ogres, trolls, and hill giants).
* +2 racial bonus on Listen checks.
* +2 racial bonus on Craft (alchemy) checks.
* Automatic Languages: Common, Gnome. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Goblin, Orc.
* Spell-Like Abilities: 1/day—speak with animals (burrowing mammal only, duration 1 minute). A gnome with a Charisma score of at least 10 also has the following spell-like abilities: 1/day—dancing lights, ghost sound, prestidigitation. Caster level 1st; save DC 10 + gnome’s Cha modifier + spell level.
* Favored Class: Bard.

Anything inherently unbalanced about that? I think the bonus to AC and attack is counterbalanced by the 0' reach and massive grapple penalty, really.

Call it something less silly if you like, but I think this would be fun to play. Charge into battle on the back of your trained badger, 2' lance at the ready! Tumble beneath the ogre's legs as the big oaf loses track of you! This would be awesome.

"Unfortunately due to a racial tendancy of getting turned to stone, they often end up as lawn ornaments by the larger, unscrupulous or unwitting races."

[DanMcS]

"Unfortunately due to a racial tendancy of getting turned to stone, they often end up as lawn ornaments by the larger, unscrupulous or unwitting races."

Due to this common misconception, the secretive mountain clans of garden gnomes (gninja) were some of the most effective assassins and spies in the world, often hiding in plain sight, stock-still for hours, until their target turned his back to pluck a weed or turnip from the earth.

[Erstwhile]

Another option would be to use the Savage Species approach (which is also sort of kind of the Arcana Unearthed approach) - spread out the racial abilities and ability bonuses over a number of levels equal to the ECL.

F'rinstance, if a Grig is ECL+4, then stat up a four-level "Grig" class, during which you gain the magical abilities (and maybe stat adjustments), and at the end of which the Grig has all of the standard racial abilities (and maybe a fiddle...). That way you can play with other 1st-level characters, though you won't take any class levels until you reach 5th character level.

[KoboldLord]

There is no way to make a race that justifies a +0 LA, 0 monster hit dice, and tiny or smaller size all at once.

Tiny size is absolutely crippling to warrior-type classes. They lose reach, which means they have to enter an enemy square to attack, which is catastrophic. Furthermore, the massive strength and size reductions for damage means that they will never be able to output any significant damage.

However, tiny size is an absolute godsend for casters. 0 reach, strength penalties, and the various miscellaneous size penalties are absolutely meaningless, while the hide and AC bonuses are off the charts.

Consequently, if you tried to build a tiny race without monster hit dice or positive level adjustment, you'd have to give it some MASSIVE penalty to counteract the huge benefits tiny size offers to casters. Like the inability to use somatic components, or the inability to speak, or a sizeable penalty to all casting stats.

In the specific case of the example "Garden Gnome" race, the character will be cripplingly overpowered as a spellcaster of any type. The size penalties mean nothing to a caster, while the AC and attack bonuses are as good as the best you can possibly get anywhere else, and will go through the roof when you cast "Reduce Person" on yourself. The massive, massive hide bonus will make you pretty much untargetable as long as you hold your movement to 10 feet per round. From L1, most enemies have a pretty good chance of failing their spot checks even if you take the -20 to your hide check while sniping with your spells. Heaven forbid you go Arcane Trickster.

[DanMcS]

There is no way to make a race that justifies a +0 LA, 0 monster hit dice, and tiny or smaller size all at once.

Tiny size is absolutely crippling to warrior-type classes. They lose reach, which means they have to enter an enemy square to attack, which is catastrophic. Furthermore, the massive strength and size reductions for damage means that they will never be able to output any significant damage.

I think you're overstating your case here a bit. They lose natural reach, ok, so they have to use a reach weapon like a longspear. If they're going melee, they'll want to be doing something like that for two-handed power attack anyway.

So they've got 5' reach, using a 1d4 weapon. At any given level, all other things being equal, they're down two points on average from the die size (compared to another longspear user), and 1 1/2 points from strength.

Say normal damage is 1d8 + str*1.5 + 2*(power attack). Minute guy's damage is 1d4+(str-1)*1.5 + 2*(power attack). He's got a +2 to-hit from being minute, so that's 4 points of free power attack right there.

Average damage:
(4.5 + str*1.5 + 2*PA) vs (2.5 + (str-1)*1.5 + 2*PA + 4)
Cancel those out,

(4.5+1.5) vs (2.5+4)
6 vs 6.5
The medium guy does .5 damage LESS than the minute guy. Huh. I didn't expect that. Now, of course, the big guy will be using a greatsword or greataxe (average damage 7 or 6.5), so he'll be ahead, 2 or 2.5 points of damage more per-attack than the minute guy.

At medium level, an average attack is going to be something like:
+1 flaming greataxe + 9 (str 22, two-handed) + 10 (PA for 5).
or
+1 flaming (tiny) longspear +7 (str 20, two-handed) + 12 (PA for 6)

1d12+1d6 +20 gives an average damage of 30. The minute guy will be doing
1d4 + 1d6 + 20, average 26. 4 points behind. I don't think he's crippled, by any means.

Besides, if I decide to play a tiny gnome riding a badger into combat, I'm not doing it to be the most mechanically effective guy ever, now am I? :)

In the specific case of the example "Garden Gnome" race, the character will be cripplingly overpowered as a spellcaster of any type. The size penalties mean nothing to a caster, while the AC and attack bonuses are as good as the best you can possibly get anywhere else, and will go through the roof when you cast "Reduce Person" on yourself. The massive, massive hide bonus will make you pretty much untargetable as long as you hold your movement to 10 feet per round. From L1, most enemies have a pretty good chance of failing their spot checks even if you take the -20 to your hide check while sniping with your spells. Heaven forbid you go Arcane Trickster.

With a +8 racial bonus and a couple ranks or points of dex bonus, that -20 is still going to have you making your hide check at -7 or -8. I'd say most enemies can beat a 2 or 3. If "Reduce Person" is your specific bugaboo, make the little guy a fey, and reduce person won't work on him any more.

There's nothing game-breaking here. But hey, if you don't like it, no one is forcing you to play it, or have it in your game. It was a suggestion for the original poster.

[Christopher V. Brady]

There is no way to make a race that justifies a +0 LA, 0 monster hit dice, and tiny or smaller size all at once.

Tiny size is absolutely crippling to warrior-type classes. They lose reach, which means they have to enter an enemy square to attack, which is catastrophic. Furthermore, the massive strength and size reductions for damage means that they will never be able to output any significant damage.

However, tiny size is an absolute godsend for casters. 0 reach, strength penalties, and the various miscellaneous size penalties are absolutely meaningless, while the hide and AC bonuses are off the charts.

Consequently, if you tried to build a tiny race without monster hit dice or positive level adjustment, you'd have to give it some MASSIVE penalty to counteract the huge benefits tiny size offers to casters. Like the inability to use somatic components, or the inability to speak, or a sizeable penalty to all casting stats.

In the specific case of the example "Garden Gnome" race, the character will be cripplingly overpowered as a spellcaster of any type. The size penalties mean nothing to a caster, while the AC and attack bonuses are as good as the best you can possibly get anywhere else, and will go through the roof when you cast "Reduce Person" on yourself. The massive, massive hide bonus will make you pretty much untargetable as long as you hold your movement to 10 feet per round. From L1, most enemies have a pretty good chance of failing their spot checks even if you take the -20 to your hide check while sniping with your spells. Heaven forbid you go Arcane Trickster.

Casters get most of the benefits of the DnD game ANYWAY, it's not like this will change in that regard.

[Slortar]

At medium level, an average attack is going to be something like:
+1 flaming greataxe + 9 (str 22, two-handed) + 10 (PA for 5).
or

I just want to chime in here to say that the idea of a garden gnome charging into battle on a badger while swinging a flaming greataxe and screaming his war cry ("TRAVELOCITY!!!!") is possibly the coolest image ever. I wish I was in a D&D campaign right now...

[KoboldLord]

I think you're overstating your case here a bit. They lose natural reach, ok, so they have to use a reach weapon like a longspear. If they're going melee, they'll want to be doing something like that for two-handed power attack anyway.

So they've got 5' reach, using a 1d4 weapon. At any given level, all other things being equal, they're down two points on average from the die size (compared to another longspear user), and 1 1/2 points from strength.

Say normal damage is 1d8 + str*1.5 + 2*(power attack). Minute guy's damage is 1d4+(str-1)*1.5 + 2*(power attack). He's got a +2 to-hit from being minute, so that's 4 points of free power attack right there.

Average damage:
(4.5 + str*1.5 + 2*PA) vs (2.5 + (str-1)*1.5 + 2*PA + 4)
Cancel those out,

(4.5+1.5) vs (2.5+4)
6 vs 6.5
The medium guy does .5 damage LESS than the minute guy. Huh. I didn't expect that. Now, of course, the big guy will be using a greatsword or greataxe (average damage 7 or 6.5), so he'll be ahead, 2 or 2.5 points of damage more per-attack than the minute guy.

At medium level, an average attack is going to be something like:
+1 flaming greataxe + 9 (str 22, two-handed) + 10 (PA for 5).
or
+1 flaming (tiny) longspear +7 (str 20, two-handed) + 12 (PA for 6)

1d12+1d6 +20 gives an average damage of 30. The minute guy will be doing
1d4 + 1d6 + 20, average 26. 4 points behind. I don't think he's crippled, by any means.

Besides, if I decide to play a tiny gnome riding a badger into combat, I'm not doing it to be the most mechanically effective guy ever, now am I? :)

Yes, you've effectively established that playing a tiny warrior-type is idiotic. Smaller sizes are bad for warrior types. Tiny size is superb for casters however, and when you consider LA you have to consider builds that take advantage of the benefits of the statistics.

That you only plan to make a tiny lancer does not help the fact that it is a badly designed race.

With a +8 racial bonus and a couple ranks or points of dex bonus, that -20 is still going to have you making your hide check at -7 or -8. I'd say most enemies can beat a 2 or 3. If "Reduce Person" is your specific bugaboo, make the little guy a fey, and reduce person won't work on him any more.

First off, changing type to fey makes the problem worse. You don't get Reduce Person, but you do get a fantastic array of new types from Alter Self AND total immunity to a host of powerful spells. Fey type alone is very nearly worth a level adjustment.

Second, AT FIRST LEVEL and assuming moderate efforts to get your hide up, you can snipe successfully 25% of the time against most opponents. With a few levels and magic items under your belt, the vast majority of enemies will not even be able to attempt to spot you. Remember, maintaining spot at maximum ranks is a major opportunity cost for most classes. A few opponents will be able to spot you easily because they are spot specialists, but the vast majority will not advance their spot and will therefore lose any chance to affect you eight levels earlier than normal. +8 to a skill as important as hide is huge.

There's nothing game-breaking here. But hey, if you don't like it, no one is forcing you to play it, or have it in your game. It was a suggestion for the original poster.

No, it is game-breaking if you play it to the advantages of the race. A mind flayer Commoner 20 is weaker than a human Wizard 20, but that does NOT mean you should make the mind flayer's ECL 0, even if your player has this oh-so-clever idea about playing an epic mind flayer commoner.

The thread asked whether it is possible to make a LA 0 Fine, Diminutive, or Tiny race, and the answer is essentially no. Extremely small and extremely large sizes are both advantages for different character builds, so if you want to make a race that is playable when playing against type, you have to give unreasonably crippling disadvantages for playing to type.

Yes, you can play your own game however you want. You can decide to dump LA and let all your players roll up Awakened Tarrasque Gestalt Monk/Psions. This is not germane to the issue at hand, however. Illuminating the possible pitfalls of tiny races, however, is entirely germane.

[Broblawsky0]

IIRC, Jermalaine are an ECL 0 Tiny race. They're in MMII.

Additionally, the Web Enhancement for Races of the Dragon beefs up Kobolds in order to make them as effective as other PC races - among other things, it gives them the Slight Build ability, which allows them to count as Tiny size whenever it would benefit them in an opposed check, such as a Hide check, or when squeezing through a restricted space.

[Erstwhile]

That you only plan to make a tiny lancer does not help the fact that it is a badly designed race.



Surely I can't be the only one singing internally, "Hold me closer, tiny lancer".

Surely.

[Rolzup]

When I was toying with the idea of making Pixies -- as per Glen Cook's "Garret Files" books -- into a playable PC race, I'd had two ideas for maybe balancing things.

The first was mechanical. A Pixie would roll a reduced die for his hit points. Knock it down by a single step...d12 becomes d10, d8 becomes d6, d4 becomes d3.

Not enough to make any real difference in the end, I think.

Second idea was more flavor than anything else, and thus related. Pixies, you see, were legally classified as vermin. Anyone could kill them, and if you turned in the corpse you'd get a few silver for your trouble. BIG trouble at low levels, not so much of a problem at higher ones.

[Christopher V. Brady]

So apparently to KoboldLord, what we want to do is 'BadWrongFun'.

[mrlost]

You could try reducing the LA. I believe that the Forgotten Realms players guide has rules for doing so.

If I remember correctly, and its been awhile since I played FR 3.5 but I believe it is accomplished by reducing BAB and Saves and I want to say racial hit dice too can someone please check.

Its was in an appendix in the back and had the example of reducing a Tiefling to LA +0.

If that is the case maybe something could be done to the Faen/Spryte.

[Aaron Peori]

Making a Tiny combatant without Spellcaster classes?

Rogue. All Rogue. Plus Tiny Crossbow (no STr modifier).

Even if you're doing only one point of damage the Sneak Attack damage is NOT dependant on size. Plus, bonus to Hide and thus better Sneak Attack opportunities...

Get Hide in Plain Sight at some point (prestige class if neccesary).

-------------------
Epsilon

[Aaron Peori]

So, would this be an ECL 0 race?

Size Tiny

Int, Wis, Cha -2

----------------
Epsilon

[KoboldLord]

IIRC, Jermalaine are an ECL 0 Tiny race. They're in MMII.

Additionally, the Web Enhancement for Races of the Dragon beefs up Kobolds in order to make them as effective as other PC races - among other things, it gives them the Slight Build ability, which allows them to count as Tiny size whenever it would benefit them in an opposed check, such as a Hide check, or when squeezing through a restricted space.

Jermalaine don't appear to have a listing for Jermalaine as Characters, and in fact they have only monster hit dice as advancement, not character class levels. And in any case, they get a -8 penalty to strength, +6 to dexterity, -2 to constitution, -2 to intelligence, +6 to wisdom, and -6 to charisma. They are of type fey and have a 40-foot speed, so they make a frankly overpowered casting cleric or druid if you were to declare them LA 0. Constitution is really the only thing that matters to them, and the +6 wisdom bonus more than makes up for that.

As for the Slight Build ability, I see no mention of it in the web enhancement to Races of the Dragon. Perhaps you remember it from the WotC message boards?

So apparently to KoboldLord, what we want to do is 'BadWrongFun'.

Cute. There's nothing wrong with playing however you want. However, Aohd asked, "Just a quick question. What are my options for a level one P.C. race that is of one of these sizes? I would prefer one that has a level ajustment of 1 or 0."

*I* answered the question, stating that no such character options existed in the rules. I explained the reasons for the absence of ECL 0 or 1 races.

*DanMcS* created a hypothetical race that he figured might serve, but unfortunately it failed the acid test of being compared to standard races of various classes, to see which was more powerful. His Garden Gnomes were far too weak as warrior-types, but far too strong as caster-types. There do exist options that can help to alleviate this, but crossing out "small" and writing in "tiny" clearly doesn't do the job all by itself. DanMcS, nevertheless, contributed very nicely to the thread.

*You*, on the other hand, made a one-line joke about garden gnomes, made a snarky comment about how casters are overpowered, and then accused me of trying to stop your fun.

From where I see things, my contribution is far more important than yours, even if it isn't what Aohd wants to hear. Even if he decides he really wants the garden gnome lancer, at least he'll understand the potential pitfalls and maybe will say "NO!" when his player asks to make a new character using the same race and a caster class.

So, would this be an ECL 0 race?

Size Tiny

Int, Wis, Cha -2

Still way overpowered for rogue, although it is getting more feasible as a caster class. Penalties to casting stats for casters gets into that "crippling penalty" thing I mentioned.

[Aaron Peori]

Still way overpowered for rogue, although it is getting more feasible as a caster class. Penalties to casting stats for casters gets into that "crippling penalty" thing I mentioned.

How about -2 all around on every stat?

------------------
Epsilon

[mrlost]

As for the Slight Build ability, I see no mention of it in the web enhancement to Races of the Dragon. Perhaps you remember it from the WotC message boards?


Strange I found it right away.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a

Design Notes

While this article does not come out and say that 1st level kobold characters (applying the core classes) are more accurately CR 1/2 creatures, the evidence presents itself. Despite how powerful natural weapons may seem in the hands of most characters, this ability does not hold up to aggressive min-maxing with kobold PCs.

For example, an elite array kobold fighter will have 11 Strength and, if lucky enough to hit with each one of these natural weapons, will deal an average of 4 points of damage (1.5 x 3 = 4.5 rounded down). The kobold fighter would be better off attacking with a Small greataxe or Small greatsword, both of which enjoy superior critical ratings. Adding a claw/claw/bite attack routine doesn't push them out of the CR +0 category.

Moreover, giving kobolds natural weapons completes their reptilian humanoid heritage, as virtually every other reptilian humanoid, Small and Large, have a claw/claw/bite attack routine. Lizardfolk (standard, blackscale, and poison dusk), and the troglodyte all have these natural weapons.

Looking at the poison dusk lizardfolk in particular, the closest approximation to kobolds, they are a +1 Level Adjustment race, and rightly so. Poison dusk lizardfolk enjoy +2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, -2 Charisma, and +3 natural armor. No Strength penalty for being Small, no light sensitivity, 30 feet of movement (again, despite being Small), and a +5 Hide bonus for their chameleon ability (on top of their size bonus). The kobold is in no danger of stepping on their feet, even with a variant natural weapons ability.

* Slight Build: The physical stature of kobolds lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category smaller. Whenever a kobold is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as Hide), the kobold is treated as one size smaller if doing so is advantageous to the character. A kobold is also considered to be one size smaller when "squeezing" through a restrictive space. A kobold can use weapons designed for a creature one size smaller without penalty. However, the space and reach of a kobold remain those of a creature of their actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject's size category.


* Weapon Proficiency: Kobolds receive the Martial Weapon Proficiency feats for the heavy pick and light pick as bonus feats. Kobolds are born and bred miners, regardless of their actual profession, allowing them to easily wield these weapons.

* Weapon Familiarity: Kobolds may treat greatpicks (see below) as martial weapons, rather than exotic weapons.

[Christopher V. Brady]

Koboldlord, you claim this sort of character would unbalance the game, but in my experiance, the game favours magic users already, so no amount of changes you throw in will make it any worse than it already is.

[iceifur]

Jermalaine don't appear to have a listing for Jermalaine as Characters, and in fact they have only monster hit dice as advancement, not character class levels. And in any case, they get a -8 penalty to strength, +6 to dexterity, -2 to constitution, -2 to intelligence, +6 to wisdom, and -6 to charisma. They are of type fey and have a 40-foot speed, so they make a frankly overpowered casting cleric or druid if you were to declare them LA 0. Constitution is really the only thing that matters to them, and the +6 wisdom bonus more than makes up for that.

Rage against the dying of the light as you please, but the Jermlaine (for good or ill) is listed as a LA +0 race on page 34 of the D&D v3.5 Accessory Update booklet (found here (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20030718a)).

[Moebius]

Surely I can't be the only one singing internally, "Hold me closer, tiny lancer".

Surely.Absolutely hilarious! I totally thought that, too.

[Asklepios]

Another option would be to use the Savage Species approach (which is also sort of kind of the Arcana Unearthed approach) - spread out the racial abilities and ability bonuses over a number of levels equal to the ECL.

F'rinstance, if a Grig is ECL+4, then stat up a four-level "Grig" class, during which you gain the magical abilities (and maybe stat adjustments), and at the end of which the Grig has all of the standard racial abilities (and maybe a fiddle...). That way you can play with other 1st-level characters, though you won't take any class levels until you reach 5th character level.

Grig is already in Savage Species, IIRC, and I believe it was one of the more balanced race-classes.

I strongly considered an all-fae Savage Species game at one stage, but was put off by the apparent weakness of many species for the level investment required.

[Ratpick]

I was beat to the jermlaine I see. Anyway, if you can get them through your DM they make absolutely killer Druids. You'll have an animal companion from day one and once you learn to Wild Shape you won't need to worry about size penalties any more.

They're nice for Rogues too. Crossbows and sniping is the way to go with those insane Hide bonuses.

[Epoch]

Koboldlord, you claim this sort of character would unbalance the game, but in my experiance, the game favours magic users already, so no amount of changes you throw in will make it any worse than it already is.

Really? That's really your argument? If something is already unbalanced, unbalancing it worse doesn't make it worse?

If I made a 1st level Wizard spell that killed any five targets within line of sight, no save, that wouldn't be a problem because Wizards are already overpowered?