Ivanhoe?

[Sam DZ015]

So its gone from a fantasy game to historical simulation? I don't see this as being a very good idea...first of all, since Ivanhoe is not fantasy but takes place during a very specific time period on earth, there are no fantastical elements, the game is bound by alot of historical info that is taken for granted but not specifically described or expressed in the book itself, and it is not a genre popular among roleplayers who tend to prefer the simplicity, accessibilty, and creative aspects of medieval-inspired worlds or gam4es as opposed to semi-realitsic historical settings.

[Old Geezer]

Well, I LOVE the idea.

But then again, I have a BA in History and think Pendragon is the most perfect game written so far.

[smascrns]

Sam DZ015, first I'm sorry for the time it took me to repply to your post. I didn't check the column for a long time, and since there had not been feedback before...

So its gone from a fantasy game to historical simulation?
I'll discuss this when I comeback with the column. In any case I can advance some ideas. You see, I don't see Ivanhoe as an historical setting. It's a fictional novel based on Romantic historiography. More than 150 years went by and current historiography is very different. The way we perceive today the times where Ivanhoe was set is very different from the perspective of Sir Walter Scott. Due to this I don't intend to do an historical game. I will do a game based on a 'fictional' game world that happens to be based in history.

since Ivanhoe is not fantasy but takes place during a very specific time period on earth, there are no fantastical elements
That's one of the reasons why I picked Ivanhoe, actually. My point of view is that it is much more simple to design a game without the fantasy elements. If that game works the way I want it to, I can extend it afterwards with the fantasy elements to cover fantasy games. It's a question of simplifying game design by doing it in ordered modules. After all, any pre-modern fantasy world (and game) has everything we expect to find in a game for Ivanhoe plus magic and fantasy creatures. Thus I think it makes sense to start by designing a game without that 'plus' and adding it afterwards.

the game is bound by alot of historical info that is taken for granted but not specifically described or expressed in the book itself
This is a very important issue, one that is highly important in my rules design book. I will present my views about it at the (re)start of the column. What I can advance is that I will design a game about Ivanhoe, the novel. It's not supposed to be a game about historical 12th century England. I'll work from the novel and add just the data that is not there and that it's required to come out with a playabe game. There will be no claim to historicity (a laugable objetive when I start with a Romantic novel that is outdated and filled with biased or misinformed views). All I will try to achieve is consistency with the world presented to us by Sir Walter Scott, nothing else.

it is not a genre popular among roleplayers
Maybe. But you have to consider that I'm doing this for my personal joy. I love Ivanhoe and other 19th century historical novels. I just hope that the readers of my column may have the openess of mind to consider something they may think is of no interest. Maybe they will even be tempted to read Ivanhoe if they never did in the past. I hope that if they do they realise that there's a wealth of interesting things to read that have been placed in the dustbin of reading fashions, things are not inferior to the best contemporary fiction. If this happens the column will be successful.

who tend to prefer the simplicity, accessibilty, and creative aspects of medieval-inspired worlds or games as opposed to semi-realitsic historical settings.
Well, I think that books like Ivanhoe, The Three Musketeers, The Black Arrow, The Unchback of Notre Dame, etc., are a lot more simple, accessible and creative than most contemporary fantasy fiction. For a start, they tend to be shorter (cutting all the fluff) and better written. And most contemporary adventure fiction is just a pastiche of 19th century adventure fiction anyway. But that's just my view.

In any case, Pendragon is a successful game that's based in Medieval cronicles, an even harder genre than Romantic historical novels; pulp is also popular today despite the fact that it didn't attract much attention just a decade ago. Who knows, people may start to regain interest in Romantic historical novels and it may become a new fad in the future. After all, some of those novels keep bouncing back, like the Three Musketeers.

[smascrns]

Well, I LOVE the idea.

But then again, I have a BA in History and think Pendragon is the most perfect game written so far.
I don't have any particular studies in history, even if I am an amateur historian with some papers published or presented in conferences (on the history of the Portuguese overseas expansion, to be more specific).

I like Pendragon even if I don't consider it to be "the most perfect game written so far". In any case, it does not work well for Ivanhoe for several reasons. That's why I think there is scope for me to design a game based on Ivanhoe.

[Old Geezer]

I don't have any particular studies in history, even if I am an amateur historian with some papers published or presented in conferences (on the history of the Portuguese overseas expansion, to be more specific).

I like Pendragon even if I don't consider it to be "the most perfect game written so far". In any case, it does not work well for Ivanhoe for several reasons. That's why I think there is scope for me to design a game based on Ivanhoe.

Absolutely. Pendragon is the most perfect game written so far to emulate a specific genre, I should have said. And Le Morte d'Arthur is not Ivanhoe, and hurrah for them both! for that.

So the world DEFINITELY has room for the perfect Genre Emulation of Ivanhoe game.

I can hardly wait.