second use art

[BiggusGeekus]

After viewing the finances, it is doubtful we can afford the quality cover art we'd need. I am therefore looking into finding art that an artist has already produced and sold, but might be willing to let us re-use for a cover.

1) Am I commiting some kind of faux pas by asking prospective artists about this? (i.e. is this an insulting thing to ask?)

2) What are the terms typically associated with this? My concern is that I'd buy the art for the cover and have things go great until I tried to use the cover (and therefore the art) in an ad.

Thanks in advance!

BG

[Misguided]

Not at all!

The cover we are using for Children of the Sun wasn't commissioned for the game. I saw it at demonground.org, new it was perfect, and contacted the artist. There's no need to be shy or embarrassed about doing this.

Rates will depend on what they charge for originals, and maybe how old the piece is, so it is tough to advise you there.

You want to make sure the artist owns rights to the work in question.

All that said, there is a ton of good color artwork out there in the roughly 300 dollar range, or in some cases less. I don't know what your budget is, but if you ask around, you might find someone willing to cut you a deal, especially if they like your project and if you can promise other benefits like increased exposure, etc.

Talk to people. Be polite. Ask. The worst they will do is say "no".

[Rallan]

I think your only potential worry is what terms the artist agreed to on the previous sale. Some companies (especially RPG companies) will buy the rights as well as the illustration just to make things nice and easy for themselves if legal problems arise, so you might not always be able to get what you want. But as long as that's not an obstacle, then you're in like Flynn.

And of course when you get a large enough collection of original art you can start recycling it yourself. Just make sure that even if you've purchased all the rights to it that you still give the original artist at least a token sum the second time so you don't get a reputation as a total dick.


Rallan

[BiggusGeekus]

Thanks Misguided and Rallan!

Which leads me to another question: on-line printing quote calculators. There are -many- folks who are nice enough to provide me with free quotes, but I don't want to submit five different quote requests just because I'm trying to get a handle on how expensive everything is. Obviously, a color interior will cost more. Obviously, nicer paper stock will cost more. But I have no frame of reference from which to even speculate on what I want.

I'll be heading to Kinko's tonight. Hopefully, I'll be able to get a vague idea of how much this stuff costs.

[Jon H]

Just to jump back, briefly, to the previous topic - A bit of insight from the other side of the fence - I think most of artists would be very glad of a "second-use" sale, and would welcome enquiries.

With regard to the legal side, first use employers should have made it overwhelming clear if they own the rights, to the artist. It's standard practice for an artist to sign a document that states they own the rights to reproduce and can legally and honestly pass it on to the commissioning party. I imagine getting a similar contract signed to indemnify you against any claim would be pretty straight forward.

Finally, I'm in the bottom end of the covers market, and if you've got around $200 we could be in business... There's a link to my site below...

Sorry to shove myself forward so ungraciously!:)

And if you want to just discuss anything, drop me a line - I'm friendly!

[Misguided]

Originally posted by Jon H
I imagine getting a similar contract signed to indemnify you against any claim would be pretty straight forward.


Excellent idea.

On the subject of printing, consider carefully how you spend your money. There are lots of ways to increase and decrease print costs. Some may be worth it to you, others may not depending on the project. I learned an important lesson (I hope) from another publisher early on. They spent a lot of money on some particular aspects of their book that didn't add that much value and came back to bite them in the butt later. One of the things they did was use very nice paper. This increased not only the cost of the print job, but the books are extremely heavy and shipping ate them alive.

Printers all seem to have certain things they do well. Find out what a printer's strengths are. If they don't match what you need, consider looking elsewhere. Ask the printer for ways to cut costs. A good sales rep can make suggestions.

[Rhombus]

Originally posted by Jon H
With regard to the legal side, first use employers should have made it overwhelming clear if they own the rights, to the artist. It's standard practice for an artist to sign a document that states they own the rights to reproduce and can legally and honestly pass it on to the commissioning party. I imagine getting a similar contract signed to indemnify you against any claim would be pretty straight forward.


Actually, a contract/statement of rights from the artist concerning 2nd use rights and such won't 'protect' you per se if that artist, even unwittingly, has surrendered those rights in a previous contract. You can still be forced to stop using the image and such. Which means you'll be at least temporarily out of pocket and artless. It really protects you from other publishers nailing your head to the door if they own the rights - they have to go after the artist instead. Plus, you can go after the artist as well... Although litigation is a dangerous thing to play with that can break you even if you win.

[Jon H]

Absolutely.

Getting the artist to sign that he or she is able to give you the second use is at least a start.

Obviously there may be "evil" artists who would sign anything to get your cash. But then that goes for suppliers, printers etc etc. You have to trust someone, somewhere along the line.



edited for spelling

[Rhombus]

I agree 100% on the having to trust someone sometime. That's why I included "unwittingly" when talking about an artist selling rights they didn't have. As far as I'm concerned, in the less-than-common event of an artist doing this, it's almost certainly going to be a result of not knowing or misunderstanding a previous contract.

Like I said, a statement of transfer of rights within a contract, including a declaration that the artist has these rights to transfer in the first place won't protect you from dodgey artists so much as it will protect you from the people who really own the rights to their work.


Also, people should never be afraid to see if they can cut a deal of some sort. Maybe you don't have the cash to pay upfront but there are accomodating people out there.


Finally, think globally. There are artists out there living in countries with extremely bad currency exchange rates. ;)