#9: ICE, Part Two: 1993-Present

[RPGnet Columns]

http://www.rpg.net/columns/briefhistory/briefhistory9.phtml

Summary:

The latter days of Rolemaster and MERP and the arrival of HARP.

Go to the column (http://www.rpg.net/columns/briefhistory/briefhistory9.phtml) for more information.

[Akrasia]

A very interesting -- if rather depressing -- history.

It is worth mentioning that ICE is in the process of publishing a 'revamped' (cleaned up and reorganized) version of the core Rolemaster 2nd edition rules, called Rolemaster Classic. Many old Rolemaster fans preferred that version of the game over RMSS/RMFRP, and so I guess ICE is trying to appeal to that segment of the market. (This move may also suggest that RM 2e, and not RMSS, will form the basis of the new edition of RM, but that's speculation on my part.)

http://store.ironcrown.com/items.jsp?category=162529

[rafrost]

One thing missing in both discussions was Gemstone 3, an online text based roleplaying game on GEnie, somewhere around 1993. It used some basic Rolemaster stats and criticals, and was set in the Shadow World.

What was the actual connection between it and ICE?

I know that later on the Shadow World and RM link seemed to have been broken.

[ShannonA]

One thing missing in both discussions was Gemstone 3, an online text based roleplaying game on GEnie, somewhere around 1993. It used some basic Rolemaster stats and criticals, and was set in the Shadow World.

What was the actual connection between it and ICE?

I know that later on the Shadow World and RM link seemed to have been broken.

Yep, there was only so much I could include.

I mentioned briefly that there were a few computer games that used the RM system. One was Gemstone 3, the other was Darkness Falls. They were both text adventure games, and as far as I know they were both licensed. Darkness Falls was the basis of Dark Ages of Camelot, which is mentioned more fully in the article.

Whether the Gemstone 3 license went away before the Darkness Falls license was granted, I dunno.

[rafrost]

Thanks for the information. I am really enjoying this series of columns.

[jugularjosh]

Man, these columns are really consistently excellent. I enjoy them as much as anything I've ever read here at rpg.net.

[Bobaloo]

Matt Forbeck linked to this article on his site, and adds a few more tidbits:

http://www.forbeck.com/?p=796

[Brandir]

A few bit missing from this part of ICE's history, such as the issues with using material from Tolkien's works that ICE did not have the licenses to!

Although a big Tolkien fanboy I never really took to MERP. The rules, to be brutally honest, stank. And in my opinion ICE took liberties with Tolkiens' work and mde up far toomuch crap.

But would any LOTR RPG make oodles of money? Why buy sourcebooks from RPG companies when there is plenty of info in His works and books by others such as maps etc?

[Akrasia]

.. ... I never really took to MERP. The rules, to be brutally honest, stank...

Well, to be brutally honest, that's just your opinion.

Aside from the magic system -- which was not Tolkien-esque at all -- I thought (and still think) that the rules were just dandy.

[Claudius]

Although a big Tolkien fanboy I never really took to MERP. The rules, to be brutally honest, stank. And in my opinion ICE took liberties with Tolkiens' work and mde up far toomuch crap.
I think I understand where you're coming from. I didn't like MERP (nor Rolemaster) much, til I learnt to divorce it from Middle Earth. Then I understood they were both fine games. In fact, I share Akrasia's opinion, that it would be cool to see a generic version of MERP, stripped of the setting, I would pay for that.

I would have loved HARP to be MERP system (especially the crits) + HARP magic.

But would any LOTR RPG make oodles of money? Why buy sourcebooks from RPG companies when there is plenty of info in His works and books by others such as maps etc?
Because the information contained in Tolkien's work is not presented in a gameable format. Because of that. :)

[Rindu]

I thought the MERP modules kicked ass. even when they were 'making crap up' they still had the right feel to them. great stuff.

good article too.

[capnzapp]

Well, to be brutally honest, that's just your opinion.

Aside from the magic system -- which was not Tolkien-esque at all -- I thought (and still think) that the rules were just dandy.
I agree totally.

The rules were very nice, with a totally original look'n'feel to them (different from both BRP and D&D, that is).

The fact that the magic rules were decidedly crap (for the subject matter) doesn't change this.

[capnzapp]

I thought the MERP modules kicked ass. even when they were 'making crap up' they still had the right feel to them. great stuff.

I have the opposite opinion.

I thought ICE consistently failed to evoke anything close to a Tolkienesque feeling in their adventures.

Sure, they got the "vast empty swathes of pristine nature" bit right. But for the rest?

A perfectly acceptable adventure, according to ICE, was "go up to a cave and kill some bandits, take loot". Another could be "find bear in forest. Kill. The end."

Not a single shred of epic saga anywhere. (For that you need Decipher's game, which unfortunately was crippled in another area, read "rules")

My verdict?

"Keep the maps, forget everything else": Style 4, Substance 1.

[capnzapp]

A very interesting -- if rather depressing -- history.

It is worth mentioning that ICE is in the process of publishing a 'revamped'

<snip>
What is really depressing is how ICE is unable to just let go of their old relics of rpgs.

If they just could discontinue every line except for one, and concentrate all their (meagre) resources on that!

(And in case you're not sure which one I have in mind, that would be HARP, as that's the only one that's isn't a rules monster, the only one even remotely accessible to new customers used to the friendliness of modern rpgs)

[weasel fierce]

What is really depressing is how ICE is unable to just let go of their old relics of rpgs.

If they just could discontinue every line except for one, and concentrate all their (meagre) resources on that!

(And in case you're not sure which one I have in mind, that would be HARP, as that's the only one that's isn't a rules monster, the only one even remotely accessible to new customers used to the friendliness of modern rpgs)

Im willing to wager that Rolemaster Classic has generate more sales for ICE than HARP has.