[Spycraft 2] Statting the GI Joe team from 1983-4

[COLWebbSFMC]

Here's a question. Levels- what do they REALLY mean?

F'rex, is a 1st level character a high school graduate, or a boot camp graduate, etc?

If I want to stat Grunt, who's an Infantry E-4, he's been to basic, AIT, and apparently seen a little action here and there, what level should he be?

What about Stalker, Snake-Eyes and Duke, who are Vietnam veterans? According to Duke's filecard, he enlisted in 1967, which gives him fifteen years of experience in the Army, with Airborne, Special Forces, and Language schools under his belt- also having been an instructor at four such schools. How would one quantify his experience with a level?

A starting character with just enough experience to get into the GI Joe team- bear in mind that most of the original team were E-4s, or thereabouts- would be what? 2nd? 3rd? 4th?

Someday I might just run a GI Joe 1980s era game in Spycraft, and I'm musing over how to build the classic team characters, and what ground rules to lay down for original characters.

[Ashikaider]

I don't know much about Spycraft, but I do know that pretty much every member of the GIJoe team tended to have basic infantry training, and specialised training in whatever form of expertise they happened to have as their specialty-- to the point of being exceptional.

aside from the greenshirts form the cartoon, I'd say that each member has at least one tour under their belts (4-5 years), and have shown themselves to be above and beyond the norm-- possibly to the point of being considered usnsuitable for normal duty, hence the reason they all seem to be out of uniform-- they made things too hot for themselves in the normal branches, so they were sent to a unit designed to take in and handle the oddballs and hardcases.

as for PCs, give them 4-6 levels, taking into account whatever specialty they want to have.

There's also a D20 setting that fairly accurately emulates the Joes and Cobra (who have an Egyptian theme), but the name of the book escapes me.

[tobygrandjean]

Ok, keeping in mind that I'm coming from a D20 modern perspective (and I've only been noodling it; haven't actually played it....) a high school graduate would probably be ~1rst level, w/ basic training ~2nd level, E-3 (ie ~6mo service time) would probably be ~3rd level, E-4 would probably be 4th level but you would start to see some variance depending on how much they push for promotion. Airborne training would probably be ~5th level, Rangers and SEALs ~6th level.
I'd say 6th level is about the minimum level for a JOE team.

Duke would probably be ~12th level but could possibly be as high as 15th depending on how pulp action hero you want to be.

[Quaid Rayn]

Someday I might just run a GI Joe 1980s era game in Spycraft, and I'm musing over how to build the classic team characters, and what ground rules to lay down for original characters.

Where do you live? I'm moving there tomorrow just so I can actively encourage you to get this going and then I can join in. :D

Also:

There's also a D20 setting that fairly accurately emulates the Joes and Cobra (who have an Egyptian theme), but the name of the book escapes me.
What?!? Sweet? But is it any good? Or should I get the Spycraft books instead?

GI Joe rules! As a kid, my self and my brother were both into them, so we had the single biggest frikkin collection of any of our friends. We hadn't got hardly any other toys, but tonnes of Joes. Birthdays, Christmas, any excuse! More Joes!

Quaid.

[Ashikaider]

Where do you live? I'm moving there tomorrow just so I can actively encourage you to get this going and then I can join in. :D

Also:

What?!? Sweet? But is it any good? Or should I get the Spycraft books instead?

GI Joe rules! As a kid, my self and my brother were both into them, so we had the single biggest frikkin collection of any of our friends. We hadn't got hardly any other toys, but tonnes of Joes. Birthdays, Christmas, any excuse! More Joes!

Quaid.

after a short search on rpgnow, found the book I was thinking of. it's called Strike force 7, and the Cobra type organisation is egyptian themed, with a touch of Stargate (the enemy soldiers are something like the Jaffa). Here's the link (http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=3049&)

and it is powered by Spycraft, so now you know....:D

[cjh]

after a short search on rpgnow, found the book I was thinking of. it's called Strike force 7, and the Cobra type organisation is egyptian themed, with a touch of Stargate (the enemy soldiers are something like the Jaffa). Here's the link (http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=3049&)

and it is powered by Spycraft, so now you know....:D

No, it isn't. I have a copy and it is very much a d20 Modern product. It's an ok product but it would probably be a lot stronger if done for Spycraft.

[Ashikaider]

No, it isn't. I have a copy and it is very much a d20 Modern product. It's an ok product but it would probably be a lot stronger if done for Spycraft.

Sorry. haven't looked at my copy for a long while, and the descriptors on rpgnow.com did say spycraft, so that may've thrown me off.

[cjh]

Sorry. haven't looked at my copy for a long while, and the descriptors on rpgnow.com did say spycraft, so that may've thrown me off.

Then they must have changed it. I wonder why I never received an updated file?

[Robert Vaux]

I know Pat Kapera would have spilled blood to land the G.I. Joe license when we were at Alderac, so if anybody ever puts together stats for the Joe team, let him know. It will make his decade. :)

[HyrumOWC]

No, it isn't. I have a copy and it is very much a d20 Modern product. It's an ok product but it would probably be a lot stronger if done for Spycraft.

Sorry, Strike Force 7 has always been a Spycraft book. Right now it's for Spycraft 1st edition, but we'll update it once I finish the RuneQuest version. :)

Hyrum.

[HyrumOWC]

Here's a question. Levels- what do they REALLY mean?

F'rex, is a 1st level character a high school graduate, or a boot camp graduate, etc?

If I want to stat Grunt, who's an Infantry E-4, he's been to basic, AIT, and apparently seen a little action here and there, what level should he be?

What about Stalker, Snake-Eyes and Duke, who are Vietnam veterans? According to Duke's filecard, he enlisted in 1967, which gives him fifteen years of experience in the Army, with Airborne, Special Forces, and Language schools under his belt- also having been an instructor at four such schools. How would one quantify his experience with a level?

A starting character with just enough experience to get into the GI Joe team- bear in mind that most of the original team were E-4s, or thereabouts- would be what? 2nd? 3rd? 4th?

Someday I might just run a GI Joe 1980s era game in Spycraft, and I'm musing over how to build the classic team characters, and what ground rules to lay down for original characters.

I'd put the average Joe (pun intended) at about 5th level, with the core team at around 7-10. (Core being: Snake Eyes, Scarlet, Duke, Stalker, Roadblock, Shipwreck, and probably Flint and Lady Jaye.)

Your average Cobra goon is probably 2nd - 4th, with named members of Cobra around the same levels as the Joe's. (Named being: Cobra Commander, Destro, the Baroness, Zartan, Storm Shadow, Dr. Mindbender, Firefly, and Major Bludd. I'd put Serpentor around 12-15.)

For what it's worth d20 Modern states that a competent professional is around 7th. I'd lower that to 5th for Spycraft.

Hyrum.

[Litpho]

Ok, keeping in mind that I'm coming from a D20 modern perspective (and I've only been noodling it; haven't actually played it....) a high school graduate would probably be ~1rst level, w/ basic training ~2nd level, E-3 (ie ~6mo service time) would probably be ~3rd level, E-4 would probably be 4th level but you would start to see some variance depending on how much they push for promotion. Airborne training would probably be ~5th level, Rangers and SEALs ~6th level.
I'd say 6th level is about the minimum level for a JOE team.

Duke would probably be ~12th level but could possibly be as high as 15th depending on how pulp action hero you want to be.Keep in mind that Spycraft characters are a little more capable than their D20 Modern counterparts of equal level, so the above lvl 5. minimum should work (and about 9 for Duke).

[COLWebbSFMC]

Thanks for the input, everyone!

By the by, I have Strike Force 7, and I love it.

I think I'll start statting the Joes up after I have some more time to digest the info in this thread and elsewhere, and then I'll start putting the characters together based on the file cards, which are probably the best single-source resource for skills and specialties.

I'm-a start with the guys in green from the 1982 figure line, and move up from there.

[Agent Oracle]

Dunno if it'll help any, but here's a bit of outside influence for you, but the Gi Joe file cards (http://joes.propadeutic.com/) were the best "accessories" those toys ever had... Yes, better than the spring-loaded missile launcher that shot it's missile all of two feet.

For instance, if you want to copy Series one characters, this guy has all of their file cards (http://joes.propadeutic.com/1982.html#Figures) on reference, including some very interesting details...

[COLWebbSFMC]

Let's get started:

My standards and assumptions for this project will be as follows:

The average new member of GI Joe will be 5th level. Players creating new characters will follow the standard Spycraft 2.0 character generation sequence for a first level character, then level the character up to 5th. This will, in most cases, allow them to have one level of an expert class that applies to their specialty.

Established GI Joe team members will be statted out based on their filecards. Their status on the team will determine their level. Here's what I'm thinking for the initial team, and the characters I'm going to try and stat first:


5th Level
SP4 Friestadt, Eric W. - Mortar Soldier - SHORT FUZE
SP4 Gambello, Anthony S. - Laser Rifle Trooper - FLASH
CPL Graves, Robert W. - Infantry Trooper - GRUNT
SP4 Kibbey, Alvin R. - Communications - BREAKER
SP4 Krieger, Courney A. - Wolverine Driver - COVER GIRL
SP4 Melendez, Rafael J. - Bazooka Soldier - ZAP
2LT Pulaski, Ralph W. - Tank Commander - STEELER
SP4 Skoog, Tormod S. - Mine Detector - TRIPWIRE
SP4 Steinberg, Lance J. - VAMP Driver - CLUTCH

6th Level
CPT Armbruster, Brad J. - Fighter Pilot - ACE
SP5 Barney, James J. - Laser Artillery Soldier - GRAND SLAM
CPT Greer, Carl W. MD - Medic - DOC
SGT McConnell, Craig S. - Machine Gunner - ROCK 'N ROLL
SGT Talltree, Franklin E. - Helicopter Assault Trooper - AIRBORNE

7th Level
CW4 Hardy, William S. - Helicopter Pilot - WILD BILL
SSG Moore, Harlan W. - Arctic Trooper - SNOW JOB
CW4 Leialoha, Edward W. - SEAL - TORPEDO
SGT O'Hara, Shana M. - Counter Intelligence - SCARLETT

8th Level
SGT <CLASSIFIED> - Commando - SNAKE-EYES
GySgt Lafitte, Ettienee R. - Marine - GUNG-HO
SGT Wilkinson, Lonzo R. - Ranger - STALKER

9th Level
COL Abernathy, Clayton M. - Missile Commander - HAWK
MSG Hauser, Conrad S. - First Sergeant - DUKE

[cjh]

Sorry, Strike Force 7 has always been a Spycraft book. Right now it's for Spycraft 1st edition, but we'll update it once I finish the RuneQuest version. :)

I looked at it again last night and saw that. I don't know why I thought it was d20 Modern only. The Spycraft stuff just didn't stick for some reason. Good book though.

Runequest, huh? Betweeen the Cultural Backgrounds and Professions, it would probably be pretty good for this sort of game.

[COLWebbSFMC]

Notes based on GI Joe characters -

Stalker, Duke, and Snake-Eyes at least are Vietnam veterans depending on the continuity you're looking at. I'm looking at file cards first, the first couple of years of the comic second, and the cartoon (as much as I loved it) a distant third. Since most US Troops were out of Vietnam by 30 April 1975. That means that at least seven years went by between their Vietnam experience and the activation of the Joe team in 1982. So why are Stalker and Snake-Eyes still E-5s? Some possible explainations are that they're E-5P, on the high end of their service as E-5s, and that as members of a Special Forces outfit, there aren't a lot of billets open for senior NCOs. It still seems a little incongruous for Stalker and Snake-Eyes to be buck Sergeants.

Some of the terminology I might end up changing in whatever document I end up making. For instance, why use "Fixed-Wing Pilot" if you're going to say "Helicopter Pilot"? Why not use "Rotary-Wing Pilot"?

Doc is listed as having a secondary MOS of Chaplain's Assistant. Are not Chaplain's Assistants enlisted?

Ace flies an XP-14, a derivative of the F-14 Tomcat. Why is he an Air Force pilot? Should he not be a Naval Aviator?

Torpedo- Here's one place where I may go with the cartoon over the file card. I like Torpedo's more outgoing personality- especially when Deep Six comes along and has all the traits the original card concept of Torpedo does. Both divers being "Cold Fish" is a bit more stereotypical than I'd like to go. Waitaminnute, I'm statting GI Joe... Did I just object to stereotypical?

Flash - He's the laser rifle guy, with an XMLR-1A rifle. So why then does the very next year's Snow Job come with a newer model laser rifle, the XMLR-3A that apparently requires no backpack? (One that apparently becomes GI Joe Standard Issue in the cartoon...)

Airborne- an interesting name for a soldier whose primary purpose on the team is actually Air Assault. Airborne = paratrooper = Ft Benning. Air Assault= rappelling out of helicopters = Ft Campbell. True, you could go to both schools, and a member of GI Joe who specializes in such things probably has, but one would hope the authority that hands out codenames would know the difference.

More notes as I have time.

[HyrumOWC]

I looked at it again last night and saw that. I don't know why I thought it was d20 Modern only. The Spycraft stuff just didn't stick for some reason. Good book though.

Runequest, huh? Betweeen the Cultural Backgrounds and Professions, it would probably be pretty good for this sort of game.

Eh, no worries. It was a real toss up between d20 Modern and Spycraft when we were designing it. Spycraft just felt like a better fit.

The RQ version is ending up to be a lot of fun. The Backgrounds and Professions are the main challenge and I'm hoping people like what I've done with them.

Hyrum.

[Tzeentch]

Honestly, their ranks seem almost entirely irrelevent once they join the Joes. GI JOE draws troops from all of the branches (and even outside of it) but once you're a Joe you're outside of the normal chains of command and promotion. GI JOE seemed more like a meritocracy anyways and was no place for "by the book" people - hence the outlandish 'uniforms' and code-names (yet they had no real secret identities). Cobra was always presented as the one with rigid command structures (that often ended up being their major weakness) and where those in charge were often there for reasons other then competence.

[COLWebbSFMC]

Eh, no worries. It was a real toss up between d20 Modern and Spycraft when we were designing it. Spycraft just felt like a better fit.

The RQ version is ending up to be a lot of fun. The Backgrounds and Professions are the main challenge and I'm hoping people like what I've done with them.

Hyrum.

So... Now you've got my interest piqued. When is this version going to be available? I like MRQ, even though I've not run more than a couple of one-shots with it. GI J- er- Strike Force 7 with MRQ... hmmm...

[Agent Oracle]

Ace flies an XP-14, a derivative of the F-14 Tomcat. Why is he an Air Force pilot? Should he not be a Naval Aviator?


Actually, Ace flew... LOTS of stuff.

-Skystriker XP-14F (F-14 style jet)
-Ghoststriker X-16 (F-16 style jet)
-Battle Copter (made-up Helicopter)
-A-10 thunderbolt (A.K.A. "Warthog")
-Conquest X-30 (X-29 jet)
-Tigerhawk (Made up "dart" style jet)

Army, Navy, Air Force, and some crazy stuff there. Might as well just give him his credentials as a pilot and let it rest at that.

[COLWebbSFMC]

Yeah, good point on Ace. I was just looking at the info available as of the 1982-1983 run of action figures. I only adjusted it up to '83 so I could include Duke...

My favorite all-time Joe is Shipwreck, but I think I have my work cut out for me statting out the Classes of 82 and 83 first.

[cjh]

The Backgrounds and Professions are the main challenge and I'm hoping people like what I've done with them.

I think that would be the easy part. Backgrounds would be used for the character's pre-military lives and the Professions would detail out the various military training pathways. At least that's the approach that I would take.

[Agent Oracle]

Flash - He's the laser rifle guy, with an XMLR-1A rifle. So why then does the very next year's Snow Job come with a newer model laser rifle, the XMLR-3A that apparently requires no backpack? (One that apparently becomes GI Joe Standard Issue in the cartoon...)

you'll also notice, that flash never got another figure after the initial 1982 run. My belief? Flash didn't make it.

The failure of his XMLR-1A was cited as the cause of death, causing the designing company, staring the loss of a military contract in the face, to go back to the drawing boards. The resulting redesigned rifle was put through extensive testing as the prototype XMLR-2, before it's re-issuing as the mass-produced and significantly improved XMLR-3A. the new laser rifle was such a massive improvement that it quickly became the standard longarm of GI Joe.

Also, later laser-riflemen (such as sci-fi) DO posses the older model XMLR's with a smaller pack, though the exact reason for the pack is never explained, i believe it holds additional power reserves and is intended for soldiers who do not wish to reload.

Airborne- an interesting name for a soldier whose primary purpose on the team is actually Air Assault. Airborne = paratrooper = Ft Benning. Air Assault= rappelling out of helicopters = Ft Campbell. True, you could go to both schools, and a member of GI Joe who specializes in such things probably has, but one would hope the authority that hands out codenames would know the difference.

Remember, Airborne cut his teeth skydiving as a kid, that's why he joined the military, so he could jump out of planes and whatnot. The fact that he picked up Air assault capabilities in his training is not really that unusual, as it seems all GI Joes have multiple areas of proficiency.

[Aran]

you'll also notice, that flash never got another figure after the initial 1982 run. My belief? Flash didn't make it.

The failure of his XMLR-1A was cited as the cause of death, causing the designing company, staring the loss of a military contract in the face, to go back to the drawing boards. The resulting redesigned rifle was put through extensive testing as the prototype XMLR-2, before it's re-issuing as the mass-produced and significantly improved XMLR-3A. the new laser rifle was such a massive improvement that it quickly became the standard longarm of GI Joe.

Also, later laser-riflemen (such as sci-fi) DO posses the older model XMLR's with a smaller pack, though the exact reason for the pack is never explained, i believe it holds additional power reserves and is intended for soldiers who do not wish to reload.
Perhaps since Flash was working on his Masters in 1982 and had combat experience with the XMLR-1 that when his enlistment was up after 1982, he didn't re-up and was picked up by the company that produced the laser rifle or (to fit in with the comic and TV appearances) he was more valuable to the team in a support role and sent as a liaison to the production company to work on development of the design (which eventually led to the XMLR-3A) with occasional forays back in the field to test updated designs.

[Mister Unfortunate]

Also, later laser-riflemen (such as sci-fi) DO posses the older model XMLR's with a smaller pack, though the exact reason for the pack is never explained, i believe it holds additional power reserves and is intended for soldiers who do not wish to reload.



I actually thought about the whole backpack thing when I was a kid playing with my horde of Joes (although I have to admit that I was always a big Cobra supporter), and decided that the non-backpack laser rifles fired in short pulses of fixed intensity while the backpack equipped versions had much more power available and could fire as continuous beams for cutting or as higher intensity pulses.

I was a really, really geeky kid.

[Tracker7]

Perhaps since Flash was working on his Masters in 1982 and had combat experience with the XMLR-1 that when his enlistment was up after 1982, he didn't re-up and was picked up by the company that produced the laser rifle or (to fit in with the comic and TV appearances) he was more valuable to the team in a support role and sent as a liaison to the production company to work on development of the design (which eventually led to the XMLR-3A) with occasional forays back in the field to test updated designs.

This rocks, and mightily.

[Agent Oracle]

Perhaps since Flash was working on his Masters in 1982 and had combat experience with the XMLR-1 that when his enlistment was up after 1982, he didn't re-up and was picked up by the company that produced the laser rifle or (to fit in with the comic and TV appearances) he was more valuable to the team in a support role and sent as a liaison to the production company to work on development of the design (which eventually led to the XMLR-3A) with occasional forays back in the field to test updated designs.

That is like, Nineteen kinds more awesome than I had thought of. I tip my hat to you sir.

[HyrumOWC]

So... Now you've got my interest piqued. When is this version going to be available? I like MRQ, even though I've not run more than a couple of one-shots with it. GI J- er- Strike Force 7 with MRQ... hmmm...


Given the way things are going, probably a few weeks. I'm making the changes and adding things like gun rules and modern skills. Then I have to tweek the layout.

Hyrum.

[COLWebbSFMC]

RE: Flash

Wow. This is the kind of thinking I need to be doing. Holy crap. It's reasoned, it uses the file card data... I like it.

I'm getting the inspiration to put together a serious attempt at a "What If" product, with Joes and stuff. I just found someone's attempt at D20 GI Joe, which I though was pretty neat save some of the actual stat blocks for some of the characters. Cobra Commander and Destro were both pretty oddly statted, in my opinion, as was Serpentor.

[Waiwode]

SGT McConnell, Craig S. - Machine Gunner - ROCK 'N ROLL
A mere poseur compared to ROADBLOCK, E-4 Hinton, Marvin F. ... the Joe's Heavy Machine-Gunner and my "secret callsign" on the "secret NCO's radio net" for the last fifteen years. :)

Doug.

[COLWebbSFMC]

A mere poseur compared to ROADBLOCK, E-4 Hinton, Marvin F. ... the Joe's Heavy Machine-Gunner and my "secret callsign" on the "secret NCO's radio net" for the last fifteen years. :)

Doug.

OK, so Rock 'N Roll is a surfer dude with an M-60, and Roadblock is a gourmet chef with a Ma Deuce. Good old Rock got so insecure about that he came back with a totally impossible quad-minigun rig that I will *not* be using in game canon...

There's room on the Joes for more than one machine gunner... Anyway, if this takes off, I'll be adding the later Joes after I get done with the task of statting the first two year's worth.

So who's Heavy Duty?

[Cynthia Celeste Miller]

OK, so Rock 'N Roll is a surfer dude with an M-60, and Roadblock is a gourmet chef with a Ma Deuce. Good old Rock got so insecure about that he came back with a totally impossible quad-minigun rig that I will *not* be using in game canon...

There's room on the Joes for more than one machine gunner... Anyway, if this takes off, I'll be adding the later Joes after I get done with the task of statting the first two year's worth.

Besides, Rock 'N Roll was a Machine Gunner, whereas Roadblock was a Heavy Machinne Gunner. So, technically, there's a role for both of them. Of course, I know that you and I are on the same page about both of 'em being on the team, but I was just adding another reason for it. ;)

So who's Heavy Duty?

This guy (http://www.yojoe.com/action/91/heavyduty.shtml).

[COLWebbSFMC]

Hiya, Cynthia!

So, Heavy Duty is from what I internally call "The lost years". From about 90-91 to a few years ago I really didn't keep up with the action figure line. Really, when things went all Cobra-La and stopped bearing any resemblance to the orginal concept.

I had kinda thought he might be a Roadblock stand-in in the same way they've had to alter certain other characters or their names to circumvent copyright issues. Like "Sgt. Stalker" and "Agent Scarlett".

[NeoSamurai]

I statted a few based off the new Devil's Due books. I applied the principle that all the characters were competent in their specialty if not just killing people (which opened a larger range of options for me). Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow by far had the most multiclasses and levels due to their ninja training and badassery. Essentially, I just decided to keep Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow as deus ex-machina type characters. Less craziness :)

Beachhead was a scout/soldier (at least 9-12 lvl). Shipwreck ended up being a wheelman class with some counterterrorist levels (gotta love his SEAL training). Flint was a pointman with some wheelman levels. Duke was pointman soldier with some Counterterrorist levels due to his CIA style activities before restart. Spirit was heavy scout/hunter levels.

On average the GIJoe team (imo) would be hovering around 9-13 (with some exceptions of course). I'll see if I could dig what I did with them up.

[COLWebbSFMC]

That sounds interesting, but a MUCH higher-level Joe team than I was envisioning for gaming purposes. I'd kinda like to see GI Joe as told by Tom Clancy, where there is some small pieces of uber-tech, but mostly it's about highly trained real-world military personnel.

Of course, sticking with the Clancy analogy, you're right about Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow. They're totally Jack Ryan or John Clark. Characters every player wants to be, but no GM in his right mind wants to allow.

As a side note: I loves me some Spycraft, and I'm looking at this due to the crunch and the potential for grit. Cartoon Action Hour and Marvel Superheroes were my choices for a more RAH Animated Series feel. That said, a few minutes ago I was pondering Joe characters, and something potentially profound leapt out at me- D6 Star Wars GI Joe. Cobra infantry? Simple. 2D in everything and 3D or 4D in brawling, firearms, etc. Average Joe character? Built on 18D and 7, rather than the 12D and ?? given to NPCs. But it'd be a more cinematic game that way... I'm looking for grittier, borderline-cinematic.

[NeoSamurai]

That sounds interesting, but a MUCH higher-level Joe team than I was envisioning for gaming purposes. I'd kinda like to see GI Joe as told by Tom Clancy, where there is some small pieces of uber-tech, but mostly it's about highly trained real-world military personnel.

Of course, sticking with the Clancy analogy, you're right about Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow. They're totally Jack Ryan or John Clark. Characters every player wants to be, but no GM in his right mind wants to allow.

for GI Joe, levels in spycraft equate to accessibility to abilities, feats and skill levels the character needs to have to be close to his comic/tv show/toy version. it's a means to emphasize competency to some degree.

[Agent Oracle]

For comparison's sake, most COBRA "mooks" would only be level 1 or 2 characters... though baised on the limited COBRA training montage we saw in the cartoon series (Where the Dreadnoks gave some mooks basic training.) it's a question of how BADLY they are being trained.

I seem to recall the Cobra training includes:
-Use tracer rounds (suggesting anticipated low accuracy )
-How to ready plastic explosives as a thrown weapon (MADNESS!)
-Using Melee weaponry against tanks (That was all Buzzer and his chainsaw-rifle...)

How it turned out...

The Joes overran one mook while he was switching from standard ammo to tracer rounds.
The plastic explosives were thrown, intercepted (By gridiron if i'm not wrong) then THROWN BACK, causing the cobras to scatter... though Gridiron had removed the detonator.
The final guy just surrendered when he was surrounded...

[Mantisking]

Shipwreck ended up being a wheelman class with some counterterrorist levels (gotta love his SEAL training).When did he get SEaL training?

[COLWebbSFMC]

Shipwreck apparently became a SEAL as of his 1994 filecard.

So he served in the Mekong Delta... again using the pullout date of 1975, let's assume he served at the very tail end of Vietnam, add a year (give or take) for Basic and A-School after his joining the Navy at 16 (I believe this is the youngest age with parental permission). So he was 17 in 1975, at minimum. That places his birthdate as 1958 or so.

So he was a Chief Gunner's Mate when he ended up on the Joe team in 1985 at the age of 27 minimum. He attended SEAL training sometime prior to 1994 when his filecard was updated and a new figure released.

SEAL Training takes six months give or take, plus some additional schools run by other services, like US Army Ranger School. So good old Chief Delgado was between 30 and more likely closer to 40 when he completed SEAL training.

I don't know about you, but I'm not going to mess with someone who can complete SEAL training when pushing 40.

[Ashikaider]

Doc is listed as having a secondary MOS of Chaplain's Assistant. Are not Chaplain's Assistants enlisted?

This may be all conjecture on my point, but I've got a theory to that.

In the comic, the team operated out of the Chaplain's Assistant's Motor Pool at a base on or near Staten Island. Now given the level of secrecy for the Joe team (which can vary at times), It wouldn't be surprising if there were certain... discrepancies on some folk's files.

So taking this theory out for a spin, let's say that Doc did have the Medic training, but due to being privy to certain 'undisclosed' parties, information, whatever, he was given a cover job of Chaplain's Assistant. In order to give this some prevalence and to keep the real CA's in the dark, Doc went through basic CA training (enough to cover himself and not look too suspicious to the real CA corps).

And that's my story. what do you folks think?

[COLWebbSFMC]

That sounds pretty plausible.

To add to some of these theories, I've also conjectured that some of the file names (if not all) may likewise be aliases.

I mean, LTJG Skip Stone, USCG and SGT Albert Pine, USA?

[NeoSamurai]

For comparison's sake, most COBRA "mooks" would only be level 1 or 2 characters... though baised on the limited COBRA training montage we saw in the cartoon series (Where the Dreadnoks gave some mooks basic training.) it's a question of how BADLY they are being trained.

I seem to recall the Cobra training includes:
-Use tracer rounds (suggesting anticipated low accuracy )
-How to ready plastic explosives as a thrown weapon (MADNESS!)
-Using Melee weaponry against tanks (That was all Buzzer and his chainsaw-rifle...)

How it turned out...

The Joes overran one mook while he was switching from standard ammo to tracer rounds.
The plastic explosives were thrown, intercepted (By gridiron if i'm not wrong) then THROWN BACK, causing the cobras to scatter... though Gridiron had removed the detonator.
The final guy just surrendered when he was surrounded...

they wouldn't have levels like characters--they'd have mook levels in Spycraft 2.0--i'd give them threat level 2 or something like that.

[NeoSamurai]

This may be all conjecture on my point, but I've got a theory to that.

In the comic, the team operated out of the Chaplain's Assistant's Motor Pool at a base on or near Staten Island. Now given the level of secrecy for the Joe team (which can vary at times), It wouldn't be surprising if there were certain... discrepancies on some folk's files.

So taking this theory out for a spin, let's say that Doc did have the Medic training, but due to being privy to certain 'undisclosed' parties, information, whatever, he was given a cover job of Chaplain's Assistant. In order to give this some prevalence and to keep the real CA's in the dark, Doc went through basic CA training (enough to cover himself and not look too suspicious to the real CA corps).

And that's my story. what do you folks think?
not sure. Doc had a very heavy religious upbringing and had he cartoon series Lifeline pacifism in the comics

[chris field]

Hey, I just want to drop in briefly and toot my own horn a bit. A few months back I put together a feat book that in conjunction with spycraft and D20 modern pretty much allows you to build a pretty comics accurate GI Joe team. The book eventually got released as Covert Ops Feats 2 from LPJ Designs.

It's an inexpensive little bit of crunchy power-gaming goodness. The whole was just something I wanted to do, but it kept Stalker, Roadblock, Scarlett and Snake Eyes and all the rest firmlly in mind during the design process.

[SkyStreak]

On the XMLR issue:

My explanation is this: The XMLR3 is essentially a laser version of an assault rifle (M-16). It has a limited number of shots, and cannot sustain a steady beam, so it's damage output would be limited (On par with and M-16, but quieter).

The XMLR1 (with backpack) can essentially cu through anything given enough time. It can be used as an assault rifle with short blasts, or can be "dialed up" to be used to punch through vehicle armour.

XMLR3 - Laser Assault Rifle
XMLR1 - Assault rifle, machine gun, anti-tank weapon all in one.

Sound reasonable?

[VRex]

On the XMLR issue:

My explanation is this: The XMLR3 is essentially a laser version of an assault rifle (M-16). It has a limited number of shots, and cannot sustain a steady beam, so it's damage output would be limited (On par with and M-16, but quieter).

The XMLR1 (with backpack) can essentially cu through anything given enough time. It can be used as an assault rifle with short blasts, or can be "dialed up" to be used to punch through vehicle armour.

XMLR3 - Laser Assault Rifle
XMLR1 - Assault rifle, machine gun, anti-tank weapon all in one.

Sound reasonable?

does to me.

[COLWebbSFMC]

Wow... That's cool.

I like that idea. Perhaps the XMLR-3 uses disposable power cells, which explains the "shell casings" sometimes seen in the cartoon ejecting from the weapon...

So does anyone have any idea where some of the web sites out there are getting the pristine card artwork? I'm seeing some places that have the pictures of the characters in their cardback poses with the explosion effect on them, but are unmarred by the telltale rips created when you remove the bubble from the card. Out there, somewhere, is a gallery of the original art, methinks- but in my limited googling I have yet to find it...

[chris field]

YoJoe.com has the filecard artwork, and I think it's minus the tradedress. That's one really cool site.
CHRIS

[COLWebbSFMC]

In preparing to stat my first Joes, here's some notes I'm making to myself:

For the actual campaign, I'm going to adapt the rules from the Spycraft 1.0 US Militaries book. That also means using some of the feats from that book as well. Those feats are:

CHASE
Crew Dog+

RANGED COMBAT
Artillery Basics
Artillery Mastery

ADVANCED SKILL
M.D.

STYLE
By The Book
Command Decision
Military Man
Mudfoot
Mustang
Promotion
Squared Away
Top Kick
Unconventional
Warrant

Of all of these, Crew Dog is the one feat that made it into Spycraft 2.0, albeit in a slightly changed form.

Since the book was released by AEG, and the e-mail contact addy is probably no longer valid, I'm not sure if I could ask permission to use those feats in a fan-pub, or if permission is kinda given already due to the OGL. According to the OGL page in the book, it says most of the content is OGL except for the actual Spycraft IP-related stuff.

I know doing GI Joe is an IP violation anyway, wether or not the finished stuff ends up being sold for a profit- which it won't unless Hasbro gets really generous for some odd reason. I just wanna be able to put it up on a web site without cheezing someone off, and maybe exercise my MS Publisher muscles and make a mock-up PDF of what such a thing would have looked like if allowed.

For the pre-gen versions of the original Joes, I may end up fudging ranks a bit as I don't really care for wasting a feat on stuff like that. For PCs, sure it's OK. If they wanna spend a feat slot on a commission or a warrant, fine with me- but it's better to earn it in play.

I'm going to create the first few within the limitations of the standard character gen procedure, and see if the attributes are adequate. I don't see it as being a problem for characters who are more-or-less highly trained soldiers, like Grunt, Flash, even Stalker. Snake-Eyes, though... the literature makes him out to be a godlike character. Maybe it's just wankery. Maybe I'll bump Snake up to be higher level than the older and higher ranking members of the group. He just got a helluva lot of XP somewhere along the line...

[COLWebbSFMC]

OK.

I just finished doing the character generation on Short Fuze. Since the notes are waaaaaay to long to post here in their entirety, if any of you are interested in seeing how he turned out, please go to:

http://www.342ndmsg.com/gijoecharacters.htm

Short-Fuze is currently the only one I've gotten done, but I'm curious as to what everyone thinks of my method for creating him meshing the GI Joe information and the Spycraft 2.0 rules.

One other thing... why the HELL is the PDF character sheet so damn huge?

EDIT: Okay, using the "REDUCE FILE SIZE" command got it down to 2.98MB from SEVEN AND A HALF FRIGGIN MEG. It's just a character sheet!

[COLWebbSFMC]

Okay, Flash is now up. I'm starting work on Grunt.

Keeping meticulous notes on each decision for each character is kinda slowing down the statting process, and so far I haven't gotten any feedback on the thread about the way I'm thinking things through, so I'm probably going to dial back the detail in my "Why I did what I did" notes.

I will say that I'm still discovering things in Spycraft that are making me go back and do corrections. Fiddly bits, like "Did I remember to give Flash another Science focus when he hit 8 ranks?" and "Oh, Crap! You get free proficiencies as per the table on P27 when levelling, better go back and give Short-Fuze another check-over, cuz I can't remember if I did that..."

It's also hard to keep making notes when I'm generating a character with three classes over five levels, with two copies of the book (one dead tree, one on screen) and my gen notes and the original file card all here. It seems like I'll get a thought down in the notes Word file, and then either forget to record it on the character sheet, or forget where I am in the process. Aaarrrrgghhh!

Well, Robert W. Graves, Corporal, US Army is next up for stattage, but I'll probably not be able to post him until Monday.

And 3 Meg per character sheet just bites.

[Aran]

As someone who's totally unfamiliar with Spycraft I really like the notes you wrote. If you're up to it, I ask that you keep up with the notes.

[COLWebbSFMC]

By request, I'm continuing to do the full creation notes. I just uploaded Grunt, and I'm going to start working on Breaker next.

Breaker is an interesting case. Using his comic info, and card info- he's good at decription and a few other things that make him a borderline hacker, but a lot of the hacker abilities don't apply. He's definitely not a straight soldier, but he's not quite a scientist either. Snoop has decrypt, but lots of other stuff that doesn't really apply to Breaker... So I'm trying to suss out what classes to give him.

I'm being disciplined and going in the order I posted earlier. If I wasn't, I'd be statting Snake-Eyes and Stalker right now, but I want to go in order so I can get a feel for the system better with the lower-level Joes and work my way up to the big hitters.

Also- Anybody else think Snake-Eyes would actually have a level or two more than anyone else?

[NeoSamurai]

Breaker--Try Fixer with an emphasis on electronics.

[COLWebbSFMC]

Breaker--Try Fixer with an emphasis on electronics.

When I read it, it sounded so good I wondered why it hadn't occurred to me...

So I went back to the book. Fixer is no longer a core class. So I'm now carefully re-reading each core class to try and suss out how to build Breaker. Fixer seems to have been replaced by a couple of other classes, Advocate among them. But it seems Advocate got all the connections and networking abilities of the fixer, but very little of the stuff that would help stat good old Breaker.

I might go the same route I went with Flash, coupla levels of Solider, coupla levels of Scientist, and a level of Virtuoso. Yeah, I've used the build before, but Flash and Breaker are similar in that they are both soldiers with an amazing skill at a particular thing- the reason why they're on the Joe Team. Similar builds wouldn't be that bad a thing.

[Coyraven]

Also- Anybody else think Snake-Eyes would actually have a level or two more than anyone else?

He is the Wolverine of the GI Joe universe (err.. Wolverine is the Snake-Eyes of Marvel..?)- it would make sense that it would show in higher levels.

BTW- enjoying the thread. nice work!

CR

[NeoSamurai]

When I read it, it sounded so good I wondered why it hadn't occurred to me...

So I went back to the book. Fixer is no longer a core class. So I'm now carefully re-reading each core class to try and suss out how to build Breaker. Fixer seems to have been replaced by a couple of other classes, Advocate among them. But it seems Advocate got all the connections and networking abilities of the fixer, but very little of the stuff that would help stat good old Breaker.

I might go the same route I went with Flash, coupla levels of Solider, coupla levels of Scientist, and a level of Virtuoso. Yeah, I've used the build before, but Flash and Breaker are similar in that they are both soldiers with an amazing skill at a particular thing- the reason why they're on the Joe Team. Similar builds wouldn't be that bad a thing.

The key thing is to emphasize the electronics and radioman stuff. I'll get back to you after looking at my 2.0.

sorry about that confusion with the "fixer".

[COLWebbSFMC]

Thanks!

I'm looking forward to getting enough of the team statted out to run a one-shot or con game with the original Joes. My plan is to stat out the Joe team members, then do NPC stat blocks for the average COBRAs, and full write-ups for the major players of Cobra at this time: CC, Destro, Baroness, Major Bludd.

I'm seriously thinking about a "Period" GI Joe campaign set in the 1980s, for that Cold War Terrorism flavor we all knew and loved back in the proverbial day.

[NeoSamurai]

Thanks!

I'm looking forward to getting enough of the team statted out to run a one-shot or con game with the original Joes. My plan is to stat out the Joe team members, then do NPC stat blocks for the average COBRAs, and full write-ups for the major players of Cobra at this time: CC, Destro, Baroness, Major Bludd.

I'm seriously thinking about a "Period" GI Joe campaign set in the 1980s, for that Cold War Terrorism flavor we all knew and loved back in the proverbial day.

I have some stats for some of the America's Elite era joes if you. Destro and Cobra Commander are actually pretty easy to decide class wise.

If you do a period era campaign--you may want to start with Greenshirts and go from there.

[COLWebbSFMC]

The key thing is to emphasize the electronics and radioman stuff. I'll get back to you after looking at my 2.0.

sorry about that confusion with the "fixer".

No problems, any input is appreciated. I'm really enjoying this project, although I do wish it were moving along a little faster... I don't like having to drop in the middle of a character, so I only sit down to stat someone out when I'm reasonably sure interruptions will be brief.

I'm looking at using "Gifted" again for Breaker as a Talent, as it allows me to nominate a skill that's always a class skill for him, but I hesitate to do that because I did the same thing for Flash...

[Coyraven]

but I hesitate to do that because I did the same thing for Flash...

Aren't you going to run into a similar issue with all the pilots/drivers?

It may be good to just accept that they will be very similar- find one good build you are happy with and then make the character appropriate adjustments.

It will speed things up for you as well. heh.

CR

[COLWebbSFMC]

Aren't you going to run into a similar issue with all the pilots/drivers?
CR

It's a possibility. But I'm trying to give every character some... erm... character. For instance:

Snow Job and Ace will both have some Faceman/Style Feat/whatever kind of bits, to reflect their status as a conman/card player, respectively.

Cover Girl gets some background as a model, to include some style feats maybe, or perhaps Gorgeous.

Wild Bill will get some performance ability for his country music interests.


But for Breaker, Flash and probably Grand Slam as well, I might have to re-use this Soldier/Scientist build as they're all on the team for the same kind of reasons...

[Aran]

Also- Anybody else think Snake-Eyes would actually have a level or two more than anyone else?

He'd have a higher level than most because he's been earning XP since Vietnam. Stalker, Duke and Hawk would all be in the same boat as well. I think the rest of the team is all post-Vietnam. He got very specialized training between Vietnam and Joe, but he also spent a portion of that time doing nothing up in the mountains while Stalker, Duke, and Hawk continued their military careers.

[COLWebbSFMC]

He'd have a higher level than most because he's been earning XP since Vietnam. Stalker, Duke and Hawk would all be in the same boat as well. I think the rest of the team is all post-Vietnam. He got very specialized training between Vietnam and Joe, but he also spent a portion of that time doing nothing up in the mountains while Stalker, Duke, and Hawk continued their military careers.

No lie. As part of this little project, I purchased Snake Eyes: Delcassified last weekend at our local FLGS. Read it all in one sitting. I now have a much better grasp of Snake than I did when I began...

[NeoSamurai]

But for Breaker, Flash and probably Grand Slam as well, I might have to re-use this Soldier/Scientist build as they're all on the team for the same kind of reasons...

I was gonna suggest that. Also for Breaker--instead of Gifted, try Brainy.

If you get the chance, read GIJoe Declassified because it talks about the early aspects of the team. Zap's background becomes more apparent and awesome in that story.

[COLWebbSFMC]

I will most definitely do so. I loves me some GI Joe comic goodness.

[TristanH]

IIRC, I think someone said at one point that the Raptor class was inspired by Snake Eyes.

Either World on Fire or 10,000 bullets will have the Ninja class last I heard. (yeah, so non committal, but it's been a while)

[COLWebbSFMC]

Further research into the Spycraft 2.0 system has revealed some pretty nifty stuff.

Campaign Qualities are pretty cool. Some of them allow you to adjust the rate at which characters gain Attribute Points, Feats, Proficiencies and Interests. You can make them faster or slower. Hell, there's one Campaign Quality that lets you purchase a feat outright by spending 1000XP x Career Level.

Armed with these adjustments, you can really tailor the way your characters improve, and in what ways. I think this is pretty cool...

If I really need to, I can use the purchased feat thing on characters like Snake-Eyes, who probably have more feats than would be reasonable to a character of Seasoned or Weathered level. Remember, I'm trying to stat the Joe team so that they will still have somewhere to go level-wise when played by PCs, and keep them close enough in level so that Snake, Stalker, Duke and the rest don't automatically dominate the game.

[Dual_Scimitarz]

GREAT thread !

...but when name dropping the higher ups and key Joes, you forgot someone.

FLINT !

pffft, who needs Duke anyway ...

[Agent Oracle]

GREAT thread !

...but when name dropping the higher ups and key Joes, you forgot someone.

FLINT !

pffft, who needs Duke anyway ...

Problem: Flint didn't join until 1985! we're looking for 83-4. :D

[Coyraven]

Campaign Qualities are pretty cool.

Yes, they are. It was 2.0 that woke me up to how under supportive (and often outright not supportive) the gm is in most rpg's.

The game actually helps me run it. Who would have thought that was possible?

CR

[Cynthia Celeste Miller]

As a side note: I loves me some Spycraft, and I'm looking at this due to the crunch and the potential for grit. Cartoon Action Hour and Marvel Superheroes were my choices for a more RAH Animated Series feel. That said, a few minutes ago I was pondering Joe characters, and something potentially profound leapt out at me- D6 Star Wars GI Joe. Cobra infantry? Simple. 2D in everything and 3D or 4D in brawling, firearms, etc. Average Joe character? Built on 18D and 7, rather than the 12D and ?? given to NPCs. But it'd be a more cinematic game that way... I'm looking for grittier, borderline-cinematic.

I've been running GI Joe using the D6 System and, to be honest, it didn't gel too well. At least not for my group and I. While I adore the system, it's just not cut out for GI Joe as far as I'm concerned. It doesn't do gritty worth a darn... or even near-gritty.

That being said, based on this thread, I went out and purchased Spycraft 2.0 the other day. So far, I'm impressed. I was kind of worried about shoehorning the characters into the classes the game provided, so I picked up the PDF supplement called [i]Back to Basics". It provides a more open ended approach to classes, as it's based on the SRD. So there's the "Strong Hero" class, the "Smart Hero" class, the "Tough Hero" class and so forth. I'm definitely using this for my Joe campaign.

Now, it's just a matter of converting all the PCs and NPCs. *groan*

[COLWebbSFMC]

This has been fun.

OK, I finished Breaker, and tried something new: a "Convention Sheet". It started with me trying to make my own character sheet that wouldn't be as big a file as the Spycraft interactive ones. What it morphed into was an idea for a sheet that contained all the information you needed to play Breaker in a game, like a one-shot or Convention Game. So it doesn't have all the calculations, just the final numbers. It has the explainations for all his special abilities, too. It also has a place to mark WP and VP as they're taken and healed, and a place to record mission gear, as well as checkoff boxes for ammunition. Tell me whatcha think, not only of the sheets, but on my take for building SP4 Alvin R. Kibbey in Spycraft 2.0

Oh, the link is Here (http://www.342ndmsg.com/gijoecharacters.htm)

YO JOE!

[Aran]

Convention sheet is GREAT! That would definitely get one in the right mood for the game ;)

I've been put off of Spycraft because of the size *500pgs!* (and knowing that there is a corrected printing coming out 'real soon now') but this thread is making me think twice about that. I really like the complete thought process you write up, it makes the character generation seem relatively simple and straightforward if you are familiar enough with the rules.

[COLWebbSFMC]

Thanks! I appreciate the input.

Getting used to the system was the hard part. There's lots of little details you might miss if you're not paying attention, and I've had to go back and correct character sheets when I notice them down the line on another character. It's a smooth operation once you get it down, but it really requires reading things over COMPLETELY a couple of times to make sure you've got everything down. It's easy to miss little things, like focus/fortes for INT bonus, or additional focus per 4 ranks in a focus skill... stuff like that.

A few tools would be really nice. I've started tinkering with an excel sheet to help out with some of the record keeping, but it really needs to be more of a program than Excel can easily handle to keep track of everything. The interactive sheet I'm using is a larger file than I'd like, and it takes a coupla seconds to calc, slowing the process down. It also has insufficient space for skill bonuses over 9, which end up getting kinda cut off. That was part of the reason I started tinkering with what ended up becoming the convention sheet prototype. After I finish statting the Joe team, the idea is to do some Cobra stats, then make convention sheets for the whole team for anyone who'd like to use my interp of the characters for a one-shot or con game. I'll probably also write up three takes on the campaign: one based on the comic, one based on the TV show, and one based on a more 'realistic' take on GI Joe as a counter-terrorist force.

[Cynthia Celeste Miller]

I created a GI Joe-themed character sheet for Spycraft if anyone's interested in receiving it. Just drop me a PM and I'll email it to you in PDF format.

[Ayrk]

COLWebbSFMC,

I'm finishing up an Excel sheet to make Spycraft 2.0 characters. Figure about a week or so left. When it is done, I'll let you know. It should be under 300k and do almost all of the calculations.

[COLWebbSFMC]

You, sir, rock on toast.

Thanks!

[TristanH]

Yes, such a tool would be most welcome.

[Ayrk]

I'm just finishing up the character sheet so by Monday at the latest.

I did this because there are so many little niggling rules hidden in the book (like gaining skill focuses) that I needed to make a sheet to help remind myself.

[COLWebbSFMC]

You're telling me.

Now, don't get me wrong, I love Spycraft 2.0 or I wouldn't be doing this. BUT- there are a lot of little rules to remember. A lot.

And yeah, I'm still working on this project. I even picked up some more GI Joe issues to read for more inspiration.

And the Baroness is still hot.
http://www.cobracares.com/imgs/dcon05/d/images/046_jpg.jpg

[Aran]

And the Baroness is still hot.
http://www.cobracares.com/imgs/dcon05/d/images/046_jpg.jpg

Source?

[COLWebbSFMC]

That's from the wonderful folks at www.cobracares.com

They're a great bunch of folks who go to cons dressed as Cobra troops. They rawk.

[Ayrk]

Well, it is Monday and Phase 1 of the sheet is finished. Phase 2 will be adding weapons and armor to the sheet. Phase 3 will be adding the effects of some feats and class abilities.

You can download it from my website (www.erikdewey.com) under the Gaming section.

Please let me know if you come across any errors or have any questions.

Thanks.

[Samaritan]

IIRC, I think someone said at one point that the Raptor class was inspired by Snake Eyes.


Really? I always thought it was Sam Fisher/Splinter Cell inspired. Though I can see Snake Eyes, too.

I love this thread. 80s cartoons + RPGs FTW! :)

[COLWebbSFMC]

Really? I always thought it was Sam Fisher/Splinter Cell inspired. Though I can see Snake Eyes, too.

I love this thread. 80s cartoons + RPGs FTW! :)

I ran a one-shot Air Raiders with D6 system. The players, not having been told where the background came from, ported in a rather unexpected Western feel based on the post-apoc elements. It was made of win.

I used Palladium Fantasy to do The Visionaries, which was amazing amounts of fun. Especially since I made the players actually use the little activation rhymes for the power staves. "By Nature's hand, by craft, by art- what once was one now fly apart!" Likewise, Palladium Fantasy + TMNT + Ninjas and Superspies martial art forms became Thundercats.

So now I'm working on GI Joe. And loving it. An voraciously devouring the comics once again for source material. I eventually want to cover M.A.S.K. and Starcom as well.

[COLWebbSFMC]

Well, it is Monday and Phase 1 of the sheet is finished. Phase 2 will be adding weapons and armor to the sheet. Phase 3 will be adding the effects of some feats and class abilities.

Please let me know if you come across any errors or have any questions.

Thanks.

COOL! This is definitely going to be fun to play with. AND it'll help with character gen for the GI Joe project.

[Samaritan]

I ran a one-shot Air Raiders with D6 system. The players, not having been told where the background came from, ported in a rather unexpected Western feel based on the post-apoc elements. It was made of win.

Oh, HOLY CRAP, I thought I was like the only guy in America who remembered that line of toys. That sounds awesome! :)

[COLWebbSFMC]

Yeah, man, Air Raiders.

So I tried my best to come up with some reasoning behind why there would be any survivors at all of an unexpected cataclysm that ripped away or made unusable most of a planet's atmosphere. My answer- the protagonists were the decendants of miners who had delved so deeply into the planet that the mined-out upper levels had been settled by merchants and service businesses to provide goods and entertainment for the rather large mining communities. Breathing gear and other life-support equipment was commonplace for obvious reasons.

It also explained why the Air Raider's gear had a clunkier look to it compared to the sleek designs of the Tyrants. In short, the Air Raiders are using converted mining and civilian equipment. The Tyrants are the survivors of the military personnel and their families who had advanced warning and took shelter in underground bunkers.

So you have the valiant freedom fighters fighting a desperate battle against the well-armed and powerful tyrannical government, with the extra perq that if someone is shot, and their suit breaches... Well, let's just say combat just got a lot more deadly.

The players, not being familiar with the toys or the background, seemed to collectively imagine the underground community as a wild west town. Maybe a Firefly-esque effect, maybe not. One player immediately wanted to be "The Sheriff". It went from there. There was a faceman/con artitst type who had a fiendly hate on for the Sheriff, a mining engineer who had converted one of their energy drilling machines into an overland vehicle for exploration of the surface (The Thunderhammer!) and eventually they ran into a Tyrant defector who was going about the business of making trouble for his former mates by helping the poor sods the extorted work out of in exchange for breathable air canisters.

We played up the hostility of the surface, bone-stripping sandstorms, the claustrophobia of being cooped up in the Thunderhammer's cabin eating preserved food while the winds hammered at the hull. The bleak fact that any time one went outside, one had to be wearing a life support suit- one that you basically had to peel off after days of wear. Lived in, slept in, crapped in, and most noticably sweatted in day after day when on a surface expedition and not blessed with the cramped RV-sized shelter of the Thunderhammer's crew cabin. It was a better game than it had any right to be.

[Samaritan]

On topic, I'm really interested in seeing what you do with this whole GI Joe project... and I don't even own Spycraft 2.0. It's threads like these that get me all amped to plunk down the cash, though.

(Even if I *am* trying to hold out for the revised edition). ;)

[Canis Major]

Huh. Very cool. Very.

Although the file card descriptions of COBRA grunts and officers do make them sound rather capable.

[COLWebbSFMC]

Huh. Very cool. Very.

Although the file card descriptions of COBRA grunts and officers do make them sound rather capable.

It really depends on how you're going to run your campaign. Me, I'd like the game to be gritty and more realism-based. So I guess I'm leaning more toward the filecards.

ALSO- GI Joe : Declassified just got released as a Trade, I bought it, devoured it, and it has file cards in the back for all the original joes plus two additional ones...

[HyrumOWC]

I ran a one-shot Air Raiders with D6 system. The players, not having been told where the background came from, ported in a rather unexpected Western feel based on the post-apoc elements. It was made of win.

I used Palladium Fantasy to do The Visionaries, which was amazing amounts of fun. Especially since I made the players actually use the little activation rhymes for the power staves. "By Nature's hand, by craft, by art- what once was one now fly apart!" Likewise, Palladium Fantasy + TMNT + Ninjas and Superspies martial art forms became Thundercats.

So now I'm working on GI Joe. And loving it. An voraciously devouring the comics once again for source material. I eventually want to cover M.A.S.K. and Starcom as well.

Man, that sounds like a lot of fun!

I LOVED MASK as a kid. :) I even managed to dig up the opening theme song. :)

I had a player once play one of the Silver Hawks in a mashup HERO game I ran years ago. He was the original and was powered by alcohol so he was always drunk. (Yeah, it's lame. We were 16. :>)

Hyrum.

[COLWebbSFMC]

Man, that sounds like a lot of fun!

I LOVED MASK as a kid. :) I even managed to dig up the opening theme song. :)


I've done M.A.S.K. twice, once with Top Secret/SI and once with Ninjas and Superspies, as the vehicle construction system in the book had tickled my fancy at that time.

I have a long history of what would today be called Fanwankery, explaining the inexplicable parts of a given setting. I have a theory that inside nearly every 80s cartoon there's a really fun campaign waiting.

For MASK, I reasoned that the hypertechnology and flying cars could be explained by two breakthroughs in technology originally made by a research team including Alex Sector, Bruce Sato, Clutch Hawks, Sylvester "Sly" Rax, and Matt Trakker's brother- who was killed when Rax stole half the plans and torched the rest after being bribed to do so by Miles Mayhem, who benefitted doubly by gaining the materials as well as the insurance bond for the research facility, of which he was part financier.

These breakthroughs were the Lifter Coil, which allowed for controlled gravitic manipulation, and the SSR crystal, named for it's developers. The Lifter Coil at it's base allows for the manipulation of gravitic properties, resulting in not only Bruce Sato's Lifter mask, but the flight capability of the Thunderhawk, and the Spectrum Hang Glider function of the Spectrum mask. The Jackrabbit mask was an early attempt to miniaturize this technology, and the Samson mask projected a limited antigravity field to allow the user to appear to be super strong.

All this took power, massive amounts of it- beyond our current capability to store in simple batteries or fuel cells. The SSR Crystal was a new type of energy storage matrix (seen in the TV show to charge the masks in Boulder Hill) that allowed other pieces of MASK/VENOM technology to become a reality. The energy beams of the Spectrum, Blaster, Ultra-Flash, Backlash and other masks- as well as the vehicular energy weapons- became possible.

Later on, the Lifter Coil's properties were found to be able to manipulate molecular cohesion properties in addition to gravitic properties. This ability resulted in the Penetrator and Gulliver masks- and indirectly, the Stiletto Mask which was an experiment in storing a simple phyisical pattern (metal projectiles) in such a way that they are basically intangible energy patterns held in dispersal.

So... I get deep into this stuff. M.A.S.K. is a favorite of mine, too... But right now, I'm doing GI Joe. Maybe M.A.S.K. could be next...

[Ayrk]

Just as an FYI, I've updated the character builder on www.erikdewey.com so that it now includes weapons and armor.

[Cynthia Celeste Miller]

I can't view it. What program do I need?

[Litpho]

I can't view it. What program do I need?XLS? Excel probably.

[Samaritan]

I can't view it. What program do I need?

I think it's zipped... do you have a program that can unzip a file for you, and Excel?

[COLWebbSFMC]

This file is awesome.

Beyond awesome.

Wow.

[Aran]

I've done M.A.S.K. twice, once with Top Secret/SI and once with Ninjas and Superspies, as the vehicle construction system in the book had tickled my fancy at that time.

I have a long history of what would today be called Fanwankery, explaining the inexplicable parts of a given setting. I have a theory that inside nearly every 80s cartoon there's a really fun campaign waiting.

For MASK, I reasoned that the hypertechnology and flying cars could be explained by two breakthroughs in technology originally made by a research team including Alex Sector, Bruce Sato, Clutch Hawks, Sylvester "Sly" Rax, and Matt Trakker's brother- who was killed when Rax stole half the plans and torched the rest after being bribed to do so by Miles Mayhem, who benefitted doubly by gaining the materials as well as the insurance bond for the research facility, of which he was part financier.

These breakthroughs were the Lifter Coil, which allowed for controlled gravitic manipulation, and the SSR crystal, named for it's developers. The Lifter Coil at it's base allows for the manipulation of gravitic properties, resulting in not only Bruce Sato's Lifter mask, but the flight capability of the Thunderhawk, and the Spectrum Hang Glider function of the Spectrum mask. The Jackrabbit mask was an early attempt to miniaturize this technology, and the Samson mask projected a limited antigravity field to allow the user to appear to be super strong.

All this took power, massive amounts of it- beyond our current capability to store in simple batteries or fuel cells. The SSR Crystal was a new type of energy storage matrix (seen in the TV show to charge the masks in Boulder Hill) that allowed other pieces of MASK/VENOM technology to become a reality. The energy beams of the Spectrum, Blaster, Ultra-Flash, Backlash and other masks- as well as the vehicular energy weapons- became possible.

Later on, the Lifter Coil's properties were found to be able to manipulate molecular cohesion properties in addition to gravitic properties. This ability resulted in the Penetrator and Gulliver masks- and indirectly, the Stiletto Mask which was an experiment in storing a simple phyisical pattern (metal projectiles) in such a way that they are basically intangible energy patterns held in dispersal.

So... I get deep into this stuff. M.A.S.K. is a favorite of mine, too... But right now, I'm doing GI Joe. Maybe M.A.S.K. could be next...

Wow :eek: You really thought about this stuff. I just thought it was cool and accepted that everything broke physics. But was still cool.

[Ayrk]

This file is awesome.

Beyond awesome.

Wow.

:o

I'm contributing!

[Caias Ward]

Thanks for the input, everyone!

By the by, I have Strike Force 7, and I love it.



You are a wise and witty person :)

Caias Ward

[COLWebbSFMC]

I just finished Cover Girl, the first character done with the assistance of the XLS sheet. I'm going to do some error checking and make sure I didn't forget anything, then get her up on my web site. I know it's slow going, but this XLS tool looks like it's going to speed things up considerably.

Question: Do you guys want me to post the XLS versions of the characters once the bugs are worked out of Ayrk's sheet? He's still adding some functionality to it, which will continue to make things a lot easier on all of us. Once class abilities are in, there will be no stopping the Spycraft 2.0 domination of the WORLD! DO YOU HEAR ME DESTRO!?!?! THE WORLD!!!!

[Ayrk]

Just started adding the class abilities and feat descriptions. Hopefully it won't be too long.

[COLWebbSFMC]

Just letting everyone know the project to stat all these Joes is still in the works. I'm the best man at my uncle's wedding, so the wedding plans, bachelor party, etc. have been taking up a lot of my time. After this weekend, I hope to get stuff in gear.

I've also been running a Spycraft 2.0 game for the last three weeks, on Sundays. It's been very interesting so far, but it's a dark future Cyberpunk-style game, not GI Joe based...

[NeoSamurai]

Figured this may be some inspiration. It's the cover to GIJoe America's Elite #25 out in June/July.

It's all of the named Joes. All of them.:cool:

http://www.joereloaded.com/AE/GIJoe_AE_25_WWIIIp1.jpg

[ExCrusader]

Figured this may be some inspiration. It's the cover to GIJoe America's Elite #25 out in June/July.

It's all of the named Joes. All of them.:cool:

<snip awesome picture>Desktopped!

[Ayrk]

Ok, I finished the class abilities and uploaded the sheet to my website.

As always, let me know if something is wrong or missing.

[Ayrk]

And with a wave of my magic wand...

Feat abilities and descriptions are now on the sheet.

Enjoy.

[COLWebbSFMC]

THE SHEET! EET EES INSANE!

Okay, time to get back in gear with this project. My uncle is married, we had a Civil War cannon at the ceremony, life is good... well, except for my Dad going into the ER with a massive ulcer. That'll happen if you live with my Mom long enough... so GI Joe Vibes for my Dad if you get a moment...

I'm going to take this opportunity to go back and input the characters we already have into Erik's sheet, so we have a downloadable sheet that's both smaller in size, and of more help in both reverse-engineering the Joes, and allowing for you to level them up yourselves for higher-powered Joes.

I'll post when I've got a few done, and when I've re-done Cover Girl in the new sheet.

[Ayrk]

Me so happy :-)

[Ayrk]

There was an error in the way skill points were calculated for first level that I've fixed and I also changed the way the feat choices look at the top of the screen.

I've uploaded the new version.

Thanks.

[Ayrk]

I've added mission gear and subplots to the sheet. Aside from bug fixes, I believe this will be the last change.

[TristanH]

Thanks again for this.

[Aran]

With d20 getting it's own forums this thread fell off my radar. I just happened to poke my head over to see if there's anything interesting and got reminded that yes, there is at least one thing d20 related I need to keep up on.

[COLWebbSFMC]

Yeah, I've gotta apologise for getting behind on this project. It *is* something I'm going to finish, cuz I want to run it as much as I owe it to all of you for being so encouraging in this thread...

Lots of "Real Life" going on lately, though. But I *am* still working on it.

[Aran]

Yeah, I've gotta apologise for getting behind on this project. It *is* something I'm going to finish, cuz I want to run it as much as I owe it to all of you for being so encouraging in this thread...

Lots of "Real Life" going on lately, though. But I *am* still working on it.

Hey, no pressure. It is just a game. This thread alone (and your write-ups) has me considering picking up Spycraft.

[Ayrk]

Heck, I'll put pressure on you :-)

We are waiting on Snake-eyes and Scarlet with baited breath...

[Aran]

Well, if you want to put out requests, I'd really like to see one of the vehicle characters next (like Wild Bill, Steeler, or Ace), just to see how different they end up compared to the infantry based ones you've done so far.

[Flizbap]

you cannot stat snake eyes. it's impossible, it would be like (Elric + Conan) * King of Ninjas + Optimus Prime.

He's that awesome.

[COLWebbSFMC]

Okay, checking on Da Snake-

Is it cheating to assume the Campaign Quality that allows players to purchase feats for 1000XP * CL?

Cuz, that's the way to build Snake-Eyes. No matter what base classes you use, Snake-Eyes is so over the top he's going to NEED those extra feats...

[Aran]

Snake-Eyes will be interesting from my point of view, because my only exposure to Spycraft 2.0 is through your writeups. I'm not sure how the system works, but Snake-Eyes is really only a badass at HTH combat and stealth. He knows how to use swords and knives, but have we seen him use any other melee weapons as an expert? He'll be higher level because he's been active since Vietnam, so that should help. I haven't read the comics for a long, long time and never read the series to its end, but he never displayed any particular expertise at ranged combat, or electronics. He had training in them, but nothing particularly notable. He also never seems to have had any leadship training, and without the ability to speak he's sure not doing any, at least for the '83-4 team. His other notable skills are that he's a highly qualified paratrooper and knows holistic medicine.

So playing devil's advocate with no real knowledge of the system, by the time of the '83-84 team:

He was a Ranger serving in the LRRP '67-'69ish. So he's had basic soldier and Ranger training. His pre-Army and this period are also where he probably picked up a lot of the variety of HTH styles mentioned on his file card. LRRP would add in additional Sneak and Tactics (for ambush) through both training and experience. He would have also received Artillery Spotting and Forward Air Control training, though I don't know how much of this he's retained by '84. I don't believe it's really shown to be used by him during the Joe years. Perhaps just give him basic levels and leave it at that. He wasn't an officer so I don't know how much Intelligence training he would have received, and I don't recall any reference to him learning Vietnamese or French. His group was successful and he would have received a lot of experience. I'd make him at least 5th level by the end of his tour. With most of his experience and training on jungle survival, stealth, ambushes, and close-in fighting (short range firearms and melee) he's pretty focused. (This would all apply to Stalker and Storm Shadow as well.)

After that he goes ninja. Add in Japanese language and more HTH and Sneak. He's most likely leaned disguise (Blend?), though nothing like Zartan. He's also learned ninja melee weapons and ranged weapons, most notably shuriken, swords, knives, and archery. This is also where he probably was trained in Holistic Medicine. By the end though, he obviously didn't put enough into Listen :) This is a tough one, he doesn't appear to have received much actual experience, it was portrayed as monkish training. It wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that the Clan worked as mercenaries at this time and he got field experience that way. Since so much of his later life references this period I'd make him 10th by the time he left.

He then lives on his own for a while, doing little. Nothing really added here, other than picking up a wolf companion. I don't know why Stalker (or was it Hawk?) was amazed when he returned to the cabin from 'hunting rabbits' without a gun. It's called snares! He learned it in survival school alongside Snake-Eyes ;)

Then he joins the Joes. Here is where he probably picked up the paratrooper skill, as well as mountaineering, desert, and arctic survival, SCUBA/underwater demolitions, and familiarity with all the NATO/Warsaw Pact small arms (all as mentioned on his file card). It says he received extensive training, but there was little use of most of these new skills shown, so I don't know how much you'd put into any of those skills. In order to add all this in though, and because he probably received more experience than any other single Joe in the comics, you'll probably have to make him 12-15th level by '84. His BAB is so high that it's no wonder he's Expert qualified with all those small arms. If most of the rest of the team is 5th/6th level and he's 15th it's easy to see why he's considered the best!

To summarize:

pre-'66: pre-Army - just HTH training probably
'66-'69: Rangers/LRRP - infantry and commando skills
'70-'79: Ninja Clan - more HTH and commando skills (disguised as ninja training)
'80-'84: Joes - advanced training

[Ayrk]

I remember reading somewhere that the Raptor class was made with Snake-Eyes in mind.

[Flizbap]

Snake eyes went through Ranger School, Special Forces School, Army Recon School, and was a Long Range Recon Patroler in Nam. That's in addition to the extensive martial arts training he went through after his tour of duty.

He's one tough bastard.

[COLWebbSFMC]

Okay, based on this conversation, I think Snake Eyes will be a Soldier-Raptor, possibly with the Warrior origin to give him a jumpstart on melee combat feats. He'll need the various punching, kicking, and Martial Arts feats, which is why I'm sticking with Soldier rather than something with more skill points.

I'm still wondering if I'll need the extra feats purchase quality to allow Snake to be Snake without being, like, 20th level...

I'm still kicking myself for not having enough time to knock out characters and do updates, but mundane life is kicking my ass.

[Ayrk]

Take your time, we'll still be here. Really, he should be the icing on the cake.

Tackle some of the vehicle guys, like Clutch they should be a little easier.

[Flizbap]

or skip ahead a few generations and do sneak peak... or crystal ball. those should take you like 45 seconds. Just take a massive dump on a character sheet and Voila!

[ExCrusader]

or skip ahead a few generations and do sneak peak... or crystal ball. those should take you like 45 seconds. Just take a massive dump on a character sheet and Voila!Fortunately you can't hurt the feelings of the people who created those crappy characters, because they are clearly already dead inside. *shudders at the cheaply made, brightly coloured monstrosities of later Joes*

[COLWebbSFMC]

Okay, one wedding down, one to go (7 July) and Region Three Summit is behind me.

Major projects pretty much done enough for me to get back to business statting out the GI Joe Team.

I'm going to hit Cover Girl next, as I've had a request to do a vehicle driver or two, and with Erik Dewey's spreadsheet, I should have a new character or two up on the web site in another day or so.

[Armistice]

Okay, based on this conversation, I think Snake Eyes will be a Soldier-Raptor, possibly with the Warrior origin to give him a jumpstart on melee combat feats. He'll need the various punching, kicking, and Martial Arts feats, which is why I'm sticking with Soldier rather than something with more skill points.

I'm still wondering if I'll need the extra feats purchase quality to allow Snake to be Snake without being, like, 20th level...

I'm still kicking myself for not having enough time to knock out characters and do updates, but mundane life is kicking my ass.

Just popping in to let you know that this thread is awesome. You might pop by the crafty forums (http://www.crafty-games.com/forum/) and mention your project. The only thing stopping me from making more contributions is that I don't have enough G.I. Joe lore. If you pop by the site, more than likely, Scott Gearin aka Morgenstern (mechanics lead for Spycraft) will give you some help with the modeling some of the tougher Joes. He'll at least point you in the right direction. IMO, nobody in the Joe universe needs to be 20th level, at the max, I'm thinking 14th level, which gives you the game-breaker abilities if you go straight single class or max-out an Expert Class.

Keep up the good work, at your own pace as RL permits. Personally I'm finding your detailed explanations the most interesting.

[barkman]

Just wondering on how things are going stat wise, or if you kept the project up.
enquiring minds would like to know :P:)

[COLWebbSFMC]

Had some changes go on at work and in Real Life (TM) that derailed me for a bit, and I do fully intend to complete this project. I have two major projects for my RPG-ing that I'm working on, the first being this GI Joe project for Spycraft 2.0, and then finishing my Transformers mod for Marvel FASERIP.

My wife and I are working on adopting, which required us to take parenting classes, write a pair of exhaustive biographies, etc. On top of that, I'm active in STARFLEET, the International Star Trek Fan Association and have been working quite a bit on some 'fleet related projects. My time has been at a premium, but two of my major loves have always been GI Joe and Transformers, so I *will* be finishing this as soon as I can find the time- that's why the web stuff is still up.

My gaming life has boiled down to one session per week, and I'm lucky to still have that. Ironically, it's neither Joe or Transformers I'm running, but one of my other two gaming passions - Robotech. GURPS Robotech to be more specific. I'm thinking of maybe running a GI Joe session at our chapters annual Game Day fundraiser in November.

[Sangrolu]

I remember reading somewhere that the Raptor class was made with Snake-Eyes in mind.

I only recall Scott saying that is was made with G-Force (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-Force:_Guardians_of_Space) / Science Ninja Team Gatchaman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_Ninja_Team_Gatchaman) in mind.

[TristanH]

I only recall Scott saying that is was made with G-Force (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-Force:_Guardians_of_Space) / Science Ninja Team Gatchaman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_Ninja_Team_Gatchaman) in mind.

It was on the old AEG boards some time ago in a GI Joe thread there, and is apparently lost in time.

[Agent Oracle]

*Rise from your grave.*

Does anyone want to try their hand at the new sigma-6 joes?