[D&D 3x] suggestions for an all bard campaign

[Ashikaider]

One of the Gms in my group is planning on a D&D campaign in the near future, and it was decided that all of the players would be Bards, with the perform skill being used in place of certain other non-bard abilities and 'rock-off' combats. being something of a fan of bards, but lacking in knowledge on them beyond the PHB, I figure i'd ask here;


What feats, spells, and or class variants would you suggest for an all-bard game?


thanks in advance.

[Silent Wayfarer]

Bards are generalists. Ergo, get each of the group to focus on doing something in particular. I'd recommend Words of Creation for the combat enabler.

Also, style them as a wandering band, each specializing in a different instrument. May be a bit hard on the keyboardist, though... :p

[Thanatos02]

I remember in 3.0, there was a Bard spell that allowed the caster to summon an instrument of variable quality. And another that instantly made it non-magical, but Masterwork. They were both 1st level, I think...

For the dude or lady in charge of dealing damage at sword point, I suggest Arcane Strike for phat damagez.

[Jon Chung]

Fun bard build I like:

Bard 4/Crusader 2/Bard +2/Jade Phoenix Mage 2/Sublime Chord 2/Jade Phoenix Mage +8.

It slices! It dices! It makes fries!

[Halloween Jack]

For once, "you all meet in a tavern" makes sense!

[Tao Jones]

*ahem* (http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/reviews/rev_7205.html)

Someone did once lament that it wasn't d20...

[Wretch]

Bards get whip as one choice of weapon. Tripping works best with lots of strength and a size advantage. Dragon Disciple requires non-prepared arcane casting.

Result: half-orc bard who can trip God and sings war ballads while he does it.

[Silent Wayfarer]

Bards get whip as one choice of weapon. Tripping works best with lots of strength and a size advantage. Dragon Disciple requires non-prepared arcane casting.

Result: half-orc bard who can trip God and sings war ballads while he does it.


...the hell? Most large races get Cha penalties. Bardic casting is spontaneous. Neither of your suggestions even makes sense in light of that.

[Juriel]

...the hell? Most large races get Cha penalties. Bardic casting is spontaneous. Neither of your suggestions even makes sense in light of that.
What Cha you lose from Half-Orc, you can get back from Dragon Disciple...

And if you take DD levels, your spellcasting gets halted anyway, so what would you even DO with that extra Cha?

[Jon Chung]

That isn't a Bard. That's a DD-based whip trip build using Bard to qualify for DD.

Taking more than one level of Bard with that goal in mind is pretty suboptimal, and one level of Bard in your entire build is flimsy qualifications for being a Bard.

[Caudex]

*ahem* (http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/reviews/rev_7205.html)

Someone did once lament that it wasn't d20...
Now, as the Original StarChildren #1 Fan... no wait, that was SteveD. As the First Known Guy to Run A StarChildren Concept Album Game, I can't believe I'm saying this, but a d20ish game could be run <I>fairly</I> easily co-opting rules out of the SC book.

You'd end up taking levels in each of the Backgrounds as well as your core class (for the skill points), concert rules would probably have to be done by assigning a DC rating for each song, but basically I think it wouldn't be that taxing.

[Rasmus Wagner]

With Dragonfire Inspiration and optimized Inspire Courage, theres potential for some phat stabbingz.

But I'd probably roll with something closer to Ocean's 11.

Also, I'd have Perform (Oratory) as my main skill, and inflict all the motivational seminars and managementese I've ever been subjected to on my fellow players.

[RobertEdwards]

Have you considered running away and DMing a Circus?

Seems like a circus would allow/encourage a wide variety of characters whom are still Bards.

Maybe use the gestalt rules so the strongman is a barbarian/bard, the big cat trainer is a druid/bard, the horse trick riders are paladin/bards, the acrobats monk/bards, the clowns rogue / bards, and so on.

[randomgamer8466]

This campaign seems to be a great opportunity to break away from the traditional "kill it" (and take its stuff) method of dealing with antagonists. An all-bard campaign could really focus on thwarting foes via trickery -- like Finn MacCool pretending to be his own baby and biting a giant's finger off -- since everyone will have a Bluff skill. And this campaign will not be complete if there is no instrumental duel with a god (Marsyas the satyr) or, better, a devil ("the Devil went down to Georgia").

If you were going to arrange a fiddle duel between a PC bard and a devil (can't be a demon since whatever they bet on the outcome, the demon would be likely to ignore the terms of the contract), what sort of devil would you use? I don't believe any of them even have a perform skill.

Me, I say the Barbazon because it could fiddle with both the fiddle-bow and his pointy beard.

[Temple]

Ive had lots of fun with MonteCooks Knights of the Chord prestige class. :) I played RttToEE with one, and it was a blast!

[Sunhawk]

Definitely neat. By "all bard" I assume no "level of bard + some other build" -- so you have Bard and the related prestige classes (virtuoso's a nice one -- I don't think there's any downside to that, except for bardic knowledge).

A True Namer might be in-character for such a party, while not technically a bard. Could be the vocalist :-p

Some plot bunnies -- a nearby kingdom has banned music altogether, with harsh penalties for any performer. Why? What secret lies there... A scrap of an ancient manuscript full of ancient lore and music has been found in the mountains. Where is the rest, and who else desires it?

And, of course, band contests :-p

[randomgamer8466]

"a nearby kingdom has banned music altogether, with harsh penalties for any performer. Why? What secret lies there"

ooh! A fantasy analogue of the 80's classic _Footloose_!


Please! Louise!

[Wretch]

That isn't a Bard. That's a DD-based whip trip build using Bard to qualify for DD.

You guys are making Grontar cry. He has the soul of a poet, I tell you, a POET!

[Ashikaider]

Definitely neat. By "all bard" I assume no "level of bard + some other build" -- so you have Bard and the related prestige classes (virtuoso's a nice one -- I don't think there's any downside to that, except for bardic knowledge).

And, of course, band contests :-p

That's pretty much it. I've heard inklings that the gm wants to use the Ghostwalk setting, and was looking for expedition to Castle Ravenloft, but since it was sold out, and he's too lazy to order another copy, he wound up buying some modules from the flgs' used game shelves.

[Dragon_Blooded]

If your GM doesn't mind upping the power level, a nice option for this, or any campaign where all characters belong to the same class, are the gestalt rules in Unearthed Arcana. Everyone mixes Bard with something else, making it fairly easy to distinguish one character from the other. This is especially handy if your GM lacks Complete Adventurer and the other sourcebooks where the feats mentioned in this thread come from, but haves UA.

Frex, if I ever have to run a wuxia campaign using D&D, I would use the gestalt rules and make everyone mix Monk with another class.

Eduardo Penna

[Tao Jones]

Frex, if I ever have to run a wuxia campaign using D&D, I would use the gestalt rules and make everyone mix Monk with another class.
That's not a very nice thing to do to someone.

[Dragon_Blooded]

That's not a very nice thing to do to someone.

Why? Because D&D isn't a very good system for wuxia (which I agree, that's why I said "if I ever have to run..." :D)? Or because the Monk is kinda sub-par in regular D&D? I agree with the later, but it's not like you're gimped for being a Monk, since everyone is on the same page. It does give every character access to pretty standart wuxia hero abilities (acrobatics/wire-fu, useful unarmed attacks), without gimping them in their main shtick.

Eduardo Penna

[AusJeb]

This could be an amusing campaign. Here are some variants:

- Bard/Fighter 2. Better BAB, two more feats, better Fort saves, and hopefully better hit points. I'm currently playing with this build, and the character has more than gained in combat effectiveness over the spell progression delayed. Just be sure to take Bard at 1st level.

- Bard/Ranger 2. Similiar to the above but now the wilderness guy in the party, plus with an animal companion and either extra bow abilities (always popular with Bards) or two-weapon fighting.

- Rogue/Bard. Skills, skills, skills, plus evasion and sneak attack. Complete Scoundrel and the Spell Compendium have at least a half dozen different ways for a Rogue/Bard to sneak attack an opponent.

- Bard/Cleric. A priest of Oldimarra. Lots of great roleplaying opportunities.

Feats: Your choice of feats will largely depend on which way you decide to go with the character. Here are some to consider, though: Dodge, Weapon Focus, Weapon Expertise, Sudden Widen (best metamagic choice), Mobility, Spring Attack, Improved Initiative

Spells: Dancing Lights, Cure Light Wounds, Glitterdust, Invisibility, Alarm, Prestidigitation.

The skill tricks from Complete Scoundrel could be very popular and useful in an all Bard campaign.

[Xenu's Paradox]

Play a Spellscale from Races of the Dragon (+2 CHA, -2 CON, Dragonblood subtype, low-light vision, blood quickening 1/day.)

Take some or all of the following feats if your GM allows them:

Song of the Heart (Eberron Campaign Setting): Raises Inspire Courage bonuses by 1.

Lingering Song (CAd): Causes several BM abilities, including Inspire Courage, to last twice as long as normal.

Words of Creation (BoED): Doubles bonuses from many BM abilities, doubles duration of Conjuration (Creation) spells. You take 1d4 points of nonlethal damage for each rank of Perform required for the ability used (3d4 for Inspire Courage.) Also gives a +4 sacred bonus on all Craft checks.

Dragonfire Inspiration (Dragon Magic): You may forego the normal bonuses of Inspire Courage to attack and weapon damage rolls to give everyone affected by your Inspire Courage ability +1d6 fire damage on all weapon damage rolls.

Extra Music (CAd): Gain 4 additional uses of Bardic Music per day.

Melodic Casting (CMage): You may use the Perform skill instead of Concentration when casting defensively or taking damage while casting, or any other uses of Concentration related to spellcasting. Additionally, you can cast spells and use command word or spell completion activations on magic items while singing.

Lyric Spell (CAd): You may cast a spell by expending a number of bardic music uses equal to 1 plus the spell's level.

The following spells are useful:

Message (PHB): You can use bardic music effects with the Perform (Sing) skill that only the targets of the Message spell can hear.

Joyful Noise (SC): Negates magical silence in a 10 foot radius. Has no vocal component, so it can be cast even if you are already inside a silence effect.

Inspirational Boost (SC): Swift action to cast, so you can cast it the same round you start using bardic music. Increases Inspire Courage bonuses by 1.

Harmony (Ghostwalk): This is a 3.0 spell that hasn't been reprinted in 3.5. It changes the base effects of your Inspire courage ability from +1 on attack and weapon damage rolls and +2 on saves vs. fear and charm to +2 on attack and weapon damage rolls and +4 on saves vs. fear and charm.

Animate Instrument (CSc): Lets you animate one instrument touched, causing it to float in place (doesn't move,) and play itself. The instrument can use bardic music effects as though you were playing it.

Nifty equipment:

Badge of Valor (MIC): Part of the Regalia of the Hero magic item set, this has 3 charges per day that can be used to either give all allies within 60 feet +2 on their next save vs. fear or charm, or increase all bonuses from your Inspire Courage ability by 1.

Helm of Tactics (MIC): Part of the Regalia of the Hero. Thrice per day, can activate to give all allies within 60 feet +2 on melee weapon damage rolls against flanked enemies for 10 rounds.

Horn of Resilience (MIC): Part of the Regalia of the Hero. When activated (max 2 times per day,) it gives DR 5/- to all allies within 30 feet for 5 rounds. If you can use Inspire Greatness, all affected characters get 50 temporary hit points for the duration of the ability.

Chime of Harmonic Agony (MIC): Thrice per day, expend a bardic music use to deal 3d6 + CHA modifier + any enhancement bonus to CON to any single target within 30 feet (Fort DC 16 for half.)

Crystal Echoblade (MIC): +1 longsword that deals extra sonic damage equal to half your bard levels while you have a bardic music effect active.

Bow of Songs (CAdv, reprinted with changes in MIC): A +1 (MIC) or +2 (CAdv) shortbow that allows its wielder to expend one use of bardic music to add a bonus equal to his Charisma modifier to the next attack roll made with it. If the attack hits, the same bonus is also added to the damage roll.

Masterwork Instruments (CAd): +2 bonus on Perform checks made to use the instrument. Various benefits such as being treated as 1 level higher for purposes of BM effects (IE a 7th-level bard can Inspire Courage +2 instead of +1, etc.) or granting an extra +1 on attack rolls, an extra +1 on damage rolls, extending the range of the effect, allowing you to target extra creatures, etc.

Instruments of the Bards (CArc, reprinted with changes in MIC): Grants normal Masterwork instrument bonuses, plus 3-4 different spell-like abilities 1/day. CArc versions are more expensive and provide additional bonuses on Perform checks made to use certain BM effects (Fascinate, Countersong, etc.)

ETA: The following links are useful, if a bit outdated:

Reflections on playing a Bard (http://codepoet.org/~markw/DnD/bard-reflections.html)
A thread on the WotC boards (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=11955757)

[Ashikaider]

bumpage.


some more questions as I'm mostly familiar with 3.0;

what is a half-elf substitution level?
how are backgrounds used in character creation, ie magic-blooded, dragon-blooded, noble, etc?

edit: which books have this info, and in what section?

[Xenu's Paradox]

Dragonblood is a subtype found in Races of the Dragon. Several game rules in that book and, I think, in Dragon Magic as well, interact with it.

[wokuma]

There is a partial map carved into seven double masterwork non magical musical instruments by a epic bard to find the musical mcguffin.

The first is given to them by a dying bard (poison, dies of secondary damage).
The second is rumored be hidden in an all girls paladin's training camp.
The third is up is a prize in a battle of the bands.
The fourth was belived lost in a ship wreck.
The fifth was stolen by a great thief.
The sixth was hidden by a miser in his castle and now ruled by his ruthless heirs.
The eighth (yes, eighth) is owned by the harshest music critic in the land... a 20th level magic user with a temper.