[D&D 3.5e] Magic Item Compendium problems

[Belac]

Maybe I've been scooped, but I've noticed very little commentary on this elsewhere.

Has anyone with "Magic Item Compendium" noticed that some augment crystals for weapons often do exactly the same thing as +1 weapon enhancements but are cheaper?

For example, a longsword +1 with a crystal to grant +1d6 fire damage is only 5000 gp, but a flaming longsword +1 is 8000 gp. There's a similar problem with the augment crystal that grants ghost touch. It's even worse if you go into higher bonuses.

I'm not saying that the augment crystals are underpriced so much as I'm saying that the abilities they emulate are overpriced, but it's obvious that this book wasn't intended to make 1d6 fire damage or ghost touch weapons cheaper because it still adds the +1 corrosive extra.

The only drawback to putting an augment crystal in a weapon is that you can't put in another augment crystal, but that still means that a character using MIC items gets a huge price discount on several very common effects compared to characters without MIC items. Isn't that power creep?

Am I doing my math wrong? Why hasn't anyone else pointed this out? Or did I just miss a bunch of threads pointing this out?

[Silent Wayfarer]

How is this a problem?

No, really.

You can cobble together a bunch of fun, minor effects at low price. You can only use one at a time. Beats the hell out of "ZOMG WE R SKREWED CAZ JEB WANTED TEH BLUD SEEKING ENCHANTMENT INSTED OF GOAT TOUCH"

[Belac]

I love augment crystals. I just wish they had also included:

"Oh yeah, and also, +1d6 energy damage on a weapon without an augment crystal only costs 5000 gp or so instead of being a +1 bonus that could potentially raise the cost of an item by tens of thousands of gp."

[Tao Jones]

Hey, don't knock Goat Touch weapons.

[Silent Wayfarer]

Hey, don't knock Goat Touch weapons.

For when those Satyrs keep eluding you.

[RedFox]

The price discounts in the MIC are by design. There's an article on the WotC website explaining the designer intentions behind it.

[Tetnahkshem]

"Oh yeah, and also, +1d6 energy damage on a weapon without an augment crystal only costs 5000 gp or so instead of being a +1 bonus that could potentially raise the cost of an item by tens of thousands of gp."

Because if it the +1 bonus were changed to a +5000 gp cost, it would be relatively cheap to keep adding all the +1d6 abilities onto one item potentially giving you +5d6 or more (since we'd assume new books occasionally come out with new effects) damage on your weapon for way cheaper than +5d6 ought to be.

But that's just a guess.

I suppose you could reprice the various +1d6 damage enchantments at +5000 gp and then stipulate that you can only deal bonus damage from one such enchantment at a time for a given weapon.

So you'd use the more expensive +1 cost if you wanted to stack multiple damage enchantments together and go with the cheaper +5000 cost if you just wanted an extra +1d6 damage.

[grasto]

Has anyone with "Magic Item Compendium" noticed that some augment crystals for weapons often do exactly the same thing as +1 weapon enhancements but are cheaper?

For example, a longsword +1 with a crystal to grant +1d6 fire damage is only 5000 gp, but a flaming longsword +1 is 8000 gp. There's a similar problem with the augment crystal that grants ghost touch. It's even worse if you go into higher bonuses.

I'm newish to DMing. You have raised some questions that I haven't considered. I also have the magic item compendium. I noticed that I have perhapse done some wrong figuring.

I was actually under the assumption that if you had a +1 sword and then had it enchanted with the flaming property, that the total cost would come out to 4000. Does the extra 1000 gold reflect that +50% increase on having weapons enchanted again? For some reason I thought the first was a straight up cost. Only other enchantments after that would incur the extra percentage increase...I think I just answered my own question...


I'm not saying that the augment crystals are underpriced so much as I'm saying that the abilities they emulate are overpriced, but it's obvious that this book wasn't intended to make 1d6 fire damage or ghost touch weapons cheaper because it still adds the +1 corrosive extra.

I'm up in the air as to what to think about the crystals. At first, my gut reaction was: "Why the hell would anyone spend a ton of gold on a property for their weapon when they can get it for roughly the same price or a lot cheaper and also have the luxury to move it from one favoured weapon to another?"

After a while, I saw some of them might come in handy. So, you could say that I warmed up to them a little. But they still come off to me as the magic item equivallent of a low blow.

I'm sure my players would get a HUGE kick out of using them, though.

[hong]

The crystals are great. Some of the other items, though, are definitely iffy: mostly the ones that grant you extra actions in a round.

[OldKentuckyShark]

I'm newish to DMing. You have raised some questions that I haven't considered. I also have the magic item compendium. I noticed that I have perhapse done some wrong figuring.

I was actually under the assumption that if you had a +1 sword and then had it enchanted with the flaming property, that the total cost would come out to 4000. Does the extra 1000 gold reflect that +50% increase on having weapons enchanted again? For some reason I thought the first was a straight up cost. Only other enchantments after that would incur the extra percentage increase...I think I just answered my own question...

No, the additional 50% increase doesn't apply to weapons or armor, only to "slotted" items like wondrous items or rings.

To add additional properties to a weapon, you take the cost of the desired weapon (+1 flaming longsword, 8000gp) and subtract the cost of the current weapon (+1 longsword 200gp) to get the enchanting cost (6000gp).

Augment crystals are a special case. They generally grant abilities similar to +1-+3 weapon bonuses, but at greatly reduced cost. This is balanced by the fact that you can only ever have one augment crystal per weapon. It's alsoa tacit admission that some weapon abilities are over-costed.

[OldKentuckyShark]

The crystals are great. Some of the other items, though, are definitely iffy: mostly the ones that grant you extra actions in a round.

I am terribly in love with the Greater Dislocater ability for weapons. It's really keen once you work out that "30 feet straight up" is a valid teleport direction.

I've got an NPC with a +1 Composite Longbow of Greater Dislocation named "Bouncing Betty".

[Deekin]

I prefer Dislocater

Dislocator

The wielder of this kind of weapon can attempt to dislocate a designated foe up to three times per day. On a successful hit, the foe must succeed on a DC 17 Will save or be teleported 1-100 miles in a random direction. If the weapon misses, the use is wasted. Bows, crossbows, and slings bestow this ability on their ammunition.

Strong psychoportation; ML 12th; Craft Psionic Arms and Armor, psionic teleport; Price +3 bonus

Great Dislocator

The wielder of this kind of weapon can attempt to greatly dislocate a designated foe up to three times per day. On a successful hit, the foe must succeed on a DC 20 Will save or be cast into a random alternate plane of existence. If the weapon misses, the use is wasted. Bows, crossbows, and slings bestow this ability upon their ammunition.

Strong psychoportation; ML 12th; Craft Psionic Arms and Armor, psionic plane shift; Price +4 bonu

[OldKentuckyShark]

I prefer Dislocater

Dislocator

The wielder of this kind of weapon can attempt to dislocate a designated foe up to three times per day. On a successful hit, the foe must succeed on a DC 17 Will save or be teleported 1-100 miles in a random direction. If the weapon misses, the use is wasted. Bows, crossbows, and slings bestow this ability on their ammunition.

Strong psychoportation; ML 12th; Craft Psionic Arms and Armor, psionic teleport; Price +3 bonus

Great Dislocator

The wielder of this kind of weapon can attempt to greatly dislocate a designated foe up to three times per day. On a successful hit, the foe must succeed on a DC 20 Will save or be cast into a random alternate plane of existence. If the weapon misses, the use is wasted. Bows, crossbows, and slings bestow this ability upon their ammunition.

Strong psychoportation; ML 12th; Craft Psionic Arms and Armor, psionic plane shift; Price +4 bonu
I suspect that your dislocater weapon has been errata'd into my dislocater weapon by the Magic Item Compendium.

I like mine better; it's more fun if you can see their faces. Also, it's about 4 times cheaper, and a swift action instead of a standard.

[Singing Smurf]

I suspect that your dislocater weapon has been errata'd into my dislocater weapon by the Magic Item Compendium.

I like mine better; it's more fun if you can see their faces. Also, it's about 4 times cheaper, and a swift action instead of a standard.

You are correct, good sir.

-Smurfy.

[Mr. Teapot]

I am terribly in love with the Greater Dislocater ability for weapons. It's really keen once you work out that "30 feet straight up" is a valid teleport direction.

I know that that is an invalid option for any magical teleportation or conjuration, because of the rule that something conjured must appear on a surface that can hold it. But I can't find any comparable text for psionic abilities, which would mean this may be doable. This may be due to my lack of XPH knowledge, though.

[Beri]

I know that that is an invalid option for any magical teleportation or conjuration, because of the rule that something conjured must appear on a surface that can hold it. But I can't find any comparable text for psionic abilities, which would mean this may be doable. This may be due to my lack of XPH knowledge, though.

I agree with that. 'Teleport' in a fantasy context means 'go to a new place', not 'move X feet in a direction'.

Same reason why, in Exalted, I wouldn't let someone throw someone straight vertically. It's just not the intent of a big, rolling throw.

[OldKentuckyShark]

I know that that is an invalid option for any magical teleportation or conjuration, because of the rule that something conjured must appear on a surface that can hold it. But I can't find any comparable text for psionic abilities, which would mean this may be doable. This may be due to my lack of XPH knowledge, though.

Hrrm-mmm.

They did extend that to teleport spells in 3.5, and not just Calling or Summoning spells, didn't they? Which is good, in one sense, but bad in another because it actually complicates things a bit for a nautical campaign I have been kicking around.

I suppose it would be a reasonable interpretation of the rules to say that water counts as a surface capable of supporting you, yes? Otherwise aquatic creatures can never make meaningful use of conjuring magic, and no one can ever use Summon Nature's Ally to get that Baleen Whale they always wanted. The same for air for flying creatures, I suppose.

That's actually an interesting point. The text was obviously intended to keep people from summoning whales above their opponent's heads, and keep people from teleporting each other into dangerous locations, but it doesn't literally do the latter. Obviously, if you use Summon Nature's Ally to summon a whale, which is on the approved list, they intended you to summon it into the water. But you can technically summon it onto dry land, where it will die, making you a shitty Druid. But if water counts as an open surface capable of supporting you, what's to keep people from teleporting or conjuring creatures to the center of the ocean?


I suppose you could just have the DM rule situationally, or reinterpret the text to lallow summoning or teleportation to areas which are not IMMEDIATELY life-threatening due to basic terrain. That means you couln't summon a whale into the desert but you could call a human to the surface of the ocean, and if they can't swim that's their own damn fault. There are crueler things allowed by spells.

Okay, digression over.

[hackmastergeneral]

I'm up in the air as to what to think about the crystals. At first, my gut reaction was: "Why the hell would anyone spend a ton of gold on a property for their weapon when they can get it for roughly the same price or a lot cheaper and also have the luxury to move it from one favoured weapon to another?"

After a while, I saw some of them might come in handy. So, you could say that I warmed up to them a little. But they still come off to me as the magic item equivallent of a low blow.

I'm sure my players would get a HUGE kick out of using them, though.

The thing is, it takes time to enchant a weapon permanently. A LOT of time - 1 day per 1000gp. Augment crystals are instant, if you find them. But, they aren't permanent, and you can only have one. What its great for is slap one on your secondary weapon while your primary one is in the shop getting enhanced. And the ability to switch em as needed is great.

One question - can an uber-rogue snatch your augment crystal off the weapon with ungodly hide/move silently checks? Cause that might be one big drawback right there.

[Silent Wayfarer]

One question - can an uber-rogue snatch your augment crystal off the weapon with ungodly hide/move silently checks? Cause that might be one big drawback right there.

Yes. A rogue can technically rob you blind once he gets that ability to make Sleight of Hand rolls as free actions, since you get infinite amounts of those.

[Mr Adventurer]

One question - can an uber-rogue snatch your augment crystal off the weapon with ungodly hide/move silently checks? Cause that might be one big drawback right there.

Nah, he'd need a Disarm attempt.

[Silent Wayfarer]

Nah, he'd need a Disarm attempt.

You're not taking the weapon. Just the crystal. And the point is moot if it's sheathed anyway.