[C&C 2E] School me, please.

[CAHFan4Life]

I hear C&C 2E is out now. I had the 1E player book, and remember it not being very well organized, and missing lots of important information. But the system seemed okay. Now I have a friend who's heard about C&C, but who doesn't visit here, and I don't know how best to advise her. So can you tell me what's changed in 2E? Is it better organized? Is all the important information actually there? Inquiring minds . . . nah, not going there. ;)

[grubman]

As far as I know there isn't a "2nd edition" but, rather a 2nd printing. It contains the same information as the first printing with a few minor changes and corrections. The big difference is in the layout wich is about 300 times better looking, easier to read, and...as you asked, better orginized. Well worth the $15 on amazon.

[philippe tromeur]

A few thing have been added : character sheet, more equipment (poisons IIRC, etc.)...

[Nifelhein]

It is a 2nd printing, but a 3rd printing is about 3 months due as wel, as the 2nd printing has already run out of stock on the trolls. it will have the errata for the 2nd printing included, as well as a new poison table and prices for poisons wil be lowered.

Link to thread saying that (http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=1972&mforum=trolllordgames).

So in short, the rules are the same, the game is the same, the presentation for the 2nd edition has been improved immenselly, or so they say, it is still clean and simple, mind you.

[Breakdaddy]

Yep, as they said above. Their will soon be a 3rd printing with only the poison tables for the assassin changed to reflect a better pricing scheme. There are currently no plans for a 2nd edition of C&C, but the Trolls are always trying to improve the game in its current edition.

[DavidStallard]

1st printing turned me off completely...something about the layout made it almost unreadable. 2nd printing is amazingly better, and worth shelling out for.

[Christopher V. Brady]

I never got the first printing but if the second one is THAT much better, I'm actually horrified that someone let something that terrible out on the market.

The second printing is pretty hard to read. It's all one giant chapter with little sense or actual 'breaks'.

[pacalypse]

I never got the first printing but if the second one is THAT much better, I'm actually horrified that someone let something that terrible out on the market.

The second printing is pretty hard to read. It's all one giant chapter with little sense or actual 'breaks'.

Uhm...no it's not.

PG. 9 Header(black background with bold white lettering):Classes
PG. 38 : Completing the Character
PG. 40 :Equipment
PG. 44 :Encumbrance
PG. 46 :Magic...and so on, how is the book like one run on chapter? The chapter is also listed on the top right corners of the page. I think you're exaggerating a little here.

[Christopher V. Brady]

Uhm...no it's not.

PG. 9 Header(black background with bold white lettering):Classes
PG. 38 : Completing the Character
PG. 40 :Equipment
PG. 44 :Encumbrance
PG. 46 :Magic...and so on, how is the book like one run on chapter? The chapter is also listed on the top right corners of the page. I think you're exaggerating a little here.

The font's are small, there are no obvious page breaks, it all bleeds together. Take the dreaded and obviously EVIL DnD PHB. Each section has a heading, and a page with a rather large title on it often in the MIDDLE of the page, thus making it easy for morons like me to see where one section ends and the other begins. When you have it near the top, it's not very stand out, and it can get ignored.

This is personal opinion, but C&C looks VERY amateurishly put together and it is very hard for me to notice when I've switched sections.

[Eisenmann]

I never got the first printing but if the second one is THAT much better, I'm actually horrified that someone let something that terrible out on the market.

The second printing is pretty hard to read. It's all one giant chapter with little sense or actual 'breaks'.

:confused:

I didn't find it "pretty hard to read" at all. Heck, I don't even have trouble remembering where things are in the book for reference.

[pacalypse]

I guess some people find headers in the top margin more difficult to find/read than those on the side(rolls eyes). Even though traditionally we start at the left-top of a page to read. Go figure :confused:

[CAHFan4Life]

Okay, so the Player book is due for a 3rd printing in about 3 months. What printing are the GM and Monster books on, and are they also due for another printing soon?

[pacalypse]

Okay, so the Player book is due for a 3rd printing in about 3 months. What printing are the GM and Monster books on, and are they also due for another printing soon?

The Monster book will be on it's second printing(I believe) but I'm not sure when this will happen.

Alas we are still waiting for the Castle Keeper Guide to come out(so it would be 1st printing), I beieve over on the Troll Lord site they claimed it should be out in time for Gen Con.

[Breakdaddy]

...Take the dreaded and obviously EVIL DnD PHB. Each section has a heading, and a page with a rather large title on it often in the MIDDLE of the page, thus making it easy for morons like me to see where one section ends and the other begins...

One has to wonder why you continue to participate in C&C threads, except that the negativity is super fun for you? If you dont like the game then a good idea would be to not play it and move on. :)

[CAHFan4Life]

Another quick Q: how do they expect you to play without the Castle Keeper's guide? They seem to be copying the D&D model, and from what I remember D&D without the DM's guide would be woefully incomplete. :confused:

[pacalypse]

Another quick Q: how do they expect you to play without the Castle Keeper's guide? They seem to be copying the D&D model, and from what I remember D&D without the DM's guide would be woefully incomplete. :confused:

All the rules you need to play the game are in the PHB and the Monsters and Treasures book. My impression is that the CKG will be mostly optional and add-on material to help you customise your game...sorta like Unearthed Arcana for D&D.

[Lisa Nadazdy]

Another quick Q: how do they expect you to play without the Castle Keeper's guide? They seem to be copying the D&D model, and from what I remember D&D without the DM's guide would be woefully incomplete. :confused:

They don't copy the D&D model exactly. All the rules for play are contained in the PHB and M&T. The Castle Keeper's Guide is supposed to be optional rules and campaign structure and so forth.

[Nelzie]

I understand that the CK Guide is also supposed to contain a series of guidelines for the use of the SIEGE Engine. Nothing over the top, just suggested uses and the like.

[Christopher V. Brady]

One has to wonder why you continue to participate in C&C threads, except that the negativity is super fun for you? If you dont like the game then a good idea would be to not play it and move on. :)

Never said I didn't like it. I have changes I've implemented, that aren't all that popular, which is fine. It's a workable system, with some fixable quirks (Like the weapon list) and an EXCELLENTLY implemented idea that borders on sheer genius (Which I am speaking of the SIEGE Engine mechanic.)

Hell, it even comes with the assumption that you're going to house rule it to death, and that to me is WONDERFUL direction to come from in a gaming environment. Everyone here has a different idea of what would make sense in a fantasy game, and it pretty much nods and agrees with you, in a metaphorical sense.

That IS what I like about it.

My biggest pet peeve about it, though, is the layout. It's pretty bad compared to say... MRQ. That book is infinitely better laid out, but I'm also sad to say in terms of organization isn't all that great, either. Hell, until I picked up C&C, Mongoose's RuneQuest was the top book as to what NOT to do in layout. Something I didn't think anyone could surpass. Imagine my surprise when I bought this, sight unseen.

Anyone who thinks I don't like it is reading too much into it. I'm just presenting my opinion, which is highly subjective and makes sense to me. I honestly don't expect it to make sense to anyone else.

YMMV.

[Breakdaddy]

Never said I didn't like it. I have changes I've implemented, that aren't all that popular, which is fine. It's a workable system, with some fixable quirks (Like the weapon list) and an EXCELLENTLY implemented idea that borders on sheer genius (Which I am speaking of the SIEGE Engine mechanic.)

Hell, it even comes with the assumption that you're going to house rule it to death, and that to me is WONDERFUL direction to come from in a gaming environment. Everyone here has a different idea of what would make sense in a fantasy game, and it pretty much nods and agrees with you, in a metaphorical sense.

That IS what I like about it.

My biggest pet peeve about it, though, is the layout. It's pretty bad compared to say... MRQ. That book is infinitely better laid out, but I'm also sad to say in terms of organization isn't all that great, either. Hell, until I picked up C&C, Mongoose's RuneQuest was the top book as to what NOT to do in layout. Something I didn't think anyone could surpass. Imagine my surprise when I bought this, sight unseen.

Anyone who thinks I don't like it is reading too much into it. I'm just presenting my opinion, which is highly subjective and makes sense to me. I honestly don't expect it to make sense to anyone else.

YMMV.

My apologies on misreading you then :o