#16: Genres: Super Heroes, Part Two

[RPGnet Columns]

http://www.rpg.net/columns/briefhistory/briefhistory16.phtml

Summary:

From the sleeper years to <i>Wild Talents</i>.

Go to the column (http://www.rpg.net/columns/briefhistory/briefhistory16.phtml) for more information.

[Tim Gray]

I think you rather shortchanged the recent crop of small press games there. there are quite a few taking the supers genre in different directions. You're mistaken when you say, "and multiple small press release, the most notable of which is the Godlike line": Godlike is not a blip on many people's radar these days. Unless perhaps you meant to refer to Wild Talents? For small press standalone games sold online Truth & Justice is the biggie.

[ShannonA]

I think you rather shortchanged the recent crop of small press games there. there are quite a few taking the supers genre in different directions. You're mistaken when you say, "and multiple small press release, the most notable of which is the Godlike line": Godlike is not a blip on many people's radar these days. Unless perhaps you meant to refer to Wild Talents? For small press standalone games sold online Truth & Justice is the biggie.

Wild Talents is Godlike: The Next Generation, so yes, precisely.

And with all due respect to the small press, they really need to get into distribution and to produce more extensive product lines before they're going to make much of an impact on the industry, and thus its history, which is what I'm writing about here.

I will admit that I know more about recent small-press now then when I wrote the article thanks to the additions to the Index over the week.

[Tim Gray]

Wild Talents is Godlike: The Next Generation, so yes, precisely.
Some people will approach it that way. Others will approach it as a generic (well, almost) supers toolkit with no connection to Godlike. Better to lump them together by creator/publisher.

And with all due respect to the small press, they really need to get into distribution and to produce more extensive product lines before they're going to make much of an impact on the industry, and thus its history, which is what I'm writing about here.
Distribution is not The Industry any more.

It's a more complicated world when a popular small press supers game can clear 500 copies on a single online sales site, as has just happened. If I understand The State of Things correctly, that puts it on a similar sales footing to products that sell modest numbers through brick-and-mortar shops. Not to mention the copies that did actually go into RPGNow's short-lived distribution programme and get sold through shops (and currently routed through Indie Press Revolution).

[cjh]

And with all due respect to the small press, they really need to get into distribution and to produce more extensive product lines before they're going to make much of an impact on the industry

What in the world does distribution have to do with creating games? This is a real dinosaur view on things, and frankly disappointing to hear.

I will admit that I know more about recent small-press now then when I wrote the article thanks to the additions to the Index over the week.

This is really disappointing to hear from someone who is compiling a history of the "industry". Very disappointing indeed. But not surprising considering the statement above either.

[REZcat]

You also mention that no-one took advantage of Image Comics' popularity. There was a small game called Heroes & Heroines (IIRC) that at least tried & had a supplement for The Maxx (as well as other indy publishers like one for Neal Adams' Continuity Comics "Twilight 2000" storyline. ).

The game, however,...tanked.

[Jake]

The second new game was another licensed Marvel game, this one called The Marvel Universe Roleplaying Game (2003). It was another resource-management game, like SAGA had been, and was generally considered an interesting and innovative game system. It also included ideas about how to make use of flashbacks and other comic book tropes. Unfortunately Marvel expected it to not only reach the success level of Dungeons & Dragons, but also to do so very quickly. When it failed to do so after just a half-dozen publications, they canceled the line.
An addendum and a correction:
MURPG was designed by Dan Gelber, Jeffrey Simons and Evan Jones, with additional design assistance by Bill Jemas and Mark Beazley. Playtesting and development was done by the newly-created Q.E.D. Games.
"A half-dozen publications" is stretching it. Apart from the core book two supplements were published: the Guide to the X-Men and the Guide to the Hulk & the Avengers. It's worth noting that all books were hardcover, full-colour on glossy paper.
That's all that was published, unless you're counting the lengthy preview that was released in InQuest #96. There was talk about a Spider-Man/New York book but that never got released, although I've seen the cover somewhere IIRC.

[E.T.Smith]

You also mention that no-one took advantage of Image Comics' popularity. There was a small game called Heroes & Heroines (IIRC) that at least tried & had a supplement for The Maxx (as well as other indy publishers like one for Neal Adams' Continuity Comics "Twilight 2000" storyline. ).
The game, however,...tanked.
IIRC, H&H was promoted around the promise that it would publish official setting books for several popular "indie" comics at the time and managed to get suprisingly wide distribution as a result. As said, it only managed to get a couple supplements out before the line collapsed. Deservedly, as the base game was abysmal. It could be reliably found in FLGS discount bins everywhere for years afterwards. Cover image and some publishing info HERE (http://www.pen-paper.net/rpgdb.php?op=showbook&bookid=226). And review of the game on this very site HERE (http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/reviews/rev_6836.html).

[E.T.Smith]

An addendum and a correction:
MURPG was designed by Dan Gelber, Jeffrey Simons and Evan Jones, with additional design assistance by Bill Jemas and Mark Beazley. Playtesting and development was done by the newly-created Q.E.D. Games.
"A half-dozen publications" is stretching it. Apart from the core book two supplements were published: the Guide to the X-Men and the Guide to the Hulk & the Avengers. It's worth noting that all books were hardcover, full-colour on glossy paper.
That's all that was published, unless you're counting the lengthy preview that was released in InQuest #96. There was talk about a Spider-Man/New York book but that never got released, although I've seen the cover somewhere IIRC.

It is also worth noting that the game was branded and distributed directly by Marvel Comics, and was not just a licensing deal. Thanks to that, it showed up in a lot of comic shops that did not normally deal in games, which unfortunately meant that they didn't know how to market it. Viewed from the perspective of a comics publisher, Marvel's dropping of the line is reasonable.

[cjh]

You also mention that no-one took advantage of Image Comics' popularity.

I would imagine that a big part of the reason for that was because of the fact that, unlike companies like Marvel or DC, Image isn't one company with one ownership of everything. Image is an umbrella under which a group of separate studios publish their own books and universes. Even with a number of cross-overs within the company, there never has been an "Image Universe."

[REZcat]

I would imagine that a big part of the reason for that was because of the fact that, unlike companies like Marvel or DC, Image isn't one company with one ownership of everything. Image is an umbrella under which a group of separate studios publish their own books and universes.

Definitely true, and a point I should have mentioned in my previous post. Any negotiations would have had to go through each of the various creators.


Even with a number of cross-overs within the company, there never has been an "Image Universe."

They TRIED to have one in the early years, before Liefeld pissed everyone off & everyone pretty much went their separate ways (Silvestri making Top Cow a separate entity-then returning once Rob was gone, Lee eventually selling to DC, and McFarlane's Spawn pretty much ignoring everyone all along anyway) . Larsen should be applauded for trying to keep it in the same "world" (or at least explain how things changed) for as long as he did. Heck, he still tries to do so with Invincible & Dragon making various cameos. But yeah, for the most part, you're right.

[Allensh]

The first d20 Supers game was "The Foundation" originally published by Crunchy Frog Enterprises shortly after d20 came along and now deservedly lining cat boxes and bird cages everywhere.

Allen

[buzz]

Three things:

1. No mention of Brave New World (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_New_World_%28role_playing_game%29)?

2. What did the d20 boom/bust have to do with Pulsar Games failure? They hardly released any product, and the quality of those was marginal.

3. W/r/t the whole small-press thing: WTF? Is there really that much difference between Godlike's tiny footprint and T&J? Winning an Ennie doesn't count? :)

[ShannonA]

2. What did the d20 boom/bust have to do with Pulsar Games failure? They hardly released any product, and the quality of those was marginal.


Possibly PG was already on the way out. However the d20 boom substantially marginalized every non-d20 system out there, making it harder to get them into shops and sell. If a non-d20 system went away 2001-2003, that was probably a factor.

[spshu]

<snitck>

2. What did the d20 boom/bust have to do with Pulsar Games failure? They hardly released any product, and the quality of those was marginal.

The company is doing well, but our fulfillment house sold a years worth of product and never paid us. (http://www.pulsargamesinc.com/news.html#082003)
Perhaps this refers to Wizard's Attic which colapsed with the d20 bust.