An upper planes "cold war".

[Lewd Beholder]

An upper planes "cold war".

While It will never be as violent or bloody as the blood war between the tanari and the baatzu, in my game I kinda want to start a cold war that occasionally gets hot between heavens and olympia.

Like in the blood wars, I want gods on both sides to basically stay out of it.

I want ideas for

1. Philosophical reasons why such conflicts would take place.

2. Key factions. races most likely to be involved in this.

3. Which races would take advantage: lower planar creatures are a given, but who else would make it better/worse.

4. Key places for battles, skirmish and meetings.

5. tactics and concepts used by each side.

think this could be fun. and actually lay down some details.

[Coyraven]

1. Philosophical reasons why such conflicts would take place.

How about Free Will versus Destiny (err.. Divine Will)?

One side believes it is their place to guide mortals and do their best to make the world a better place.

The other side believes it is best for mortals to choose their own path- those that choose virtue on their own are of more value than those who were tricked into it.

The battle field of the Cold War is the realms of the mortals. The pc's may witness .. oddities. They sometimes will enjoy a mysterious blessing, but then find it equally mysteriously countered shortly there after.

The pc's may be manipulated by both sides.

The Destiny side isn't just interested in fighting evil. They may want a neutral king overthrown so his Good son can take over. They spread prophetic propoganda about to push the situation into happening.

The Free Will side may .. lead (i.e. trick) the pc's into exposing a plot of the Destiny side.. even framing in a way to look like something that needs to be stopped. Yes, hypocritical, but these things tend to be..

3. Which races would take advantage: lower planar creatures are a given, but who else would make it better/worse.

For the worse- imagine if the holy organizations begin to pick up on the animosity. A holy war is a terrible thing-- especially when both sides are Good.

For the better- pick an elder race/group. Dragons/druids/whatever - they have the place to sit back and recognize the Cold War, and decide to throw their own hands into the mix. Why not take advantage of a false prophecy to further your own ends by getting to the son and convincing him to become a druid?

Good Luck
CR

[randomgamer8466]

I think this is a fantastic idea for a plotline, and if I had my Manual of the Planes, I would start describing specifics right away. But I'm at work.

Here's something: what if a trickster god, maybe an evil one whose powers for stealth and deception trump all the powers of celestials, devas, and lammasu to perceive it, has sown the seeds of discontent, and his Master Plan is to embroil the good planes in their own Blood War. Mayhap a bunch of nearly-epic PCs uncover this chicanery and are in a race against time to expose his vile machinations before the angels go sword to flaming sword over this.

If you use that, you owe me a dollar.

[Lewd Beholder]

some thoughts from a buddy of mine.

Assuming the Great Wheel Cosmology,

1. Law vs. Chaos still don't play nice with each other, even when on Team Good together. The Law people might see the Chaos people as Fallen or rogues waiting to happen, while the chaos people say something like, "And you're uptight, self-righteous ***holes, and we hate you, so nyah!" in response. NG wouldn't have a stake, and would thus stay out of it (Obviously, opposite to the Yugoloths)

2. The archons and the eladrin, obviously. The dwarves and elves may take sides, too, and the Humans would, obviously, be all over the place.

3. Humans, aberrations, and quite possibly the formians.

4. Elysium becomes a neutral meeting ground, and the NG celestials would spank anyone who started a fight there, while Outland becomes a convienient transport method, and the Beastlands and Bytopia become bones of contention.

5. The eladrins and CG angels will probably have the advantage of numbers, and may very well have a lot of classed celestials, while the archons and LG celestials would be better at planning (Not to say that Chaos can't plan, just that Law is better at it). I don't think there'd be many actual battles, though, just withholding of support, propaganda marketeering, etc.

[mrlost]

I'd assume a rivalry between LG and CG over which philosophy is better Honor or Choice, but the reason it remains largely a non-violent activity is that neither side wishes to twist into Evil territory...

[sankarah]

I'd assume a rivalry between LG and CG over which philosophy is better Honor or Choice, but the reason it remains largely a non-violent activity is that neither side wishes to twist into Evil territory...

Agreed. A rivalry makes a certain amount of sense, since each group thinks its philosophical approach to the universe is superior. The notion of a war, though, is absurd -- good people don't wage war upon one another. In the real world they might be forced to fight because of allegiance to different lords (who are likely neutral at best), but in the heavens that is not an issue. The lords are good, the followers are good, so war is out of the question.

(as an aside, I'm generally against the notion that the lawful good types are sanctimonious asses, too; good people aren't smug and self-righteous any more than they are violent. This doesn't apply to mortals, naturally, as they are flawed beings and mixtures of good and evil in even the most extreme cases. But when you're talking about the outer planes you're talking about archetypes, and the archetypes of good are Good, full stop.)

Rivalry, however, and a need to prove that one's own nature and philosophy is the proper arrangement for the universe is another matter entirely. I would expect this to manifest primarily through the activities of mortal priesthoods, with the lawful types building societies and such and the chaotic ones constantly calling for change and reform. This can't happen in the outer planes, naturally, since the nature of each plane forbids any sort of radical changes (the chaotic planes might be more amenable to it, but never for long).