Old player coming back....maybe (Advice please)

[ChadderCheese]

My son recently purchased a Dungeons and Dragons Basic Game set that I figured I would help him with. I played in the late 70's and through the 80s but haven't been around since 2nd edition. I've no idea what's out there, and I run into the "Basic game"....my son bought it with some Christmas money he has and after work I looked inside....I told him all about the character creation etc. that comes with a game like D&D and to my surprise the Basic Game set that he purchased had nothing like that in it....it was all prerolled characters that will never be your own. There was no mention of character creation or rolling your own in the rulebooks anywhere in the box set. No mini monster manual in the back, chart for purchasing weapons/armor, items, etc. It's basically a boardgame based on D&D rules.

I'd like some advice on where I can get something that is close to the old basic/advanced sets they USED to have in the 70s and 80s (and even 90s)....So far from looking the "Player's Kit" is the closest thing I can find without having to go out and buy every book there is (which I'm not willing to do at this point)....would love any help you could give.

I'd just like to play some D&D with my son and wife and create our own characters and hit some adventures and have a reference book by our side that has some charts in it as well....even price lists....like the old softcover rulebooks used to have.

~Chad

[Irlymvhir]

My son recently purchased a Dungeons and Dragons Basic Game set that I figured I would help him with. I played in the late 70's and through the 80s but haven't been around since 2nd edition. I've no idea what's out there, and I run into the "Basic game"....my son bought it with some Christmas money he has and after work I looked inside....I told him all about the character creation etc. that comes with a game like D&D and to my surprise the Basic Game set that he purchased had nothing like that in it....it was all prerolled characters that will never be your own. There was no mention of character creation or rolling your own in the rulebooks anywhere in the box set. No mini monster manual in the back, chart for purchasing weapons/armor, items, etc. It's basically a boardgame based on D&D rules.

I'd like some advice on where I can get something that is close to the old basic/advanced sets they USED to have in the 70s and 80s (and even 90s)....So far from looking the "Player's Kit" is the closest thing I can find without having to go out and buy every book there is (which I'm not willing to do at this point)....would love any help you could give.

I'd just like to play some D&D with my son and wife and create our own characters and hit some adventures and have a reference book by our side that has some charts in it as well....even price lists....like the old softcover rulebooks used to have.

~Chad

Right now, due to 4th Edition coming out next year, the three basic core 3e rule books can be found pretty cheap now and even cheaper than cheap on Amazon. You don't need a billion books to have fun--just the base three.

If you're looking more for free DnD 3rd edition rules, here they are in the SRD: http://www.d20srd.org/index.htm

That is all the 3rd edition core rules + psionics + epic levels/gods + some optional rules (Unearthed Arcana).

-P.C.

[Bloodwolf]

Old school D&D free downloads(legal):

http://www.knights-n-knaves.com/osric/
for AD&D 1st ed

http://www.goblinoidgames.com/labyrinthlord.htm
for Basic/Expert D&D

The SRD mentioned above is all the rules for 3.5, but none of the fluff that allows you to know what you are doing as a returning gamer/newcomer to the changes edition-wise.

[cr0m]

The good news is that the 4d6 drop 1d method is still canon, so you can whip out your old dice and get to it.

Also, you can use the rules that are in the Basic Game plus the free SRD (http://d20srd.org/) for monsters and magic items. I rarely use anything but the SRD to make adventures. It's searchable!

[Sleeper]

The older version (the 2004 "Black Dragon" version) of the Basic Game included character creation rules. The current edition of the Basic Game (the 2006 "Blue Dragon" version, which seems to be the version you have) is missing the character creation rules — which are now located in the Player's Kit. The Player's Kit includes dice, one (1) character sheet, 3 quickstart booklets (character creation, a rules summary, and an extremely short solo adventure), maybe some miniatures, and a paperback version of the Player's Handbook.

While the PH has more stuff in it than the versions you're probably familiar with in the 80s (like almost all the combat rules), it's still not a complete game. Awarding experience, magic items, things like that are still in the Dungeon Masters Guide, and monsters are in the Monster Manual. Those are the three core rulebooks. There's a Gift Set that includes all three and a slipcover box to hold them, for about $5 less than buying them individually. The rules themselves, minus the examples and fluff text, are also available online as the System Reference Document (it's a long story, but Wizards of the Coast released the rules under an open license to encourage third party support products, and thus help them sell more core books). The current edition is 3.5; a 4th edition was announced in August and will be released in the middle of next year.

[erc1971]

If you log on soon...

http://cgi.ebay.com/TSR-D-D-Basic-Boxed-Set-Copyright-1980_W0QQitemZ180199180670QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item1801991806 70

The old TSR basic sets are pretty inexpensive on Ebay. IF you just want to play
a simple game and have fun - go with this - 3.5 edition D&D might be a bit more
than you want - there is alot to those rules.

[Shattercrack]

I'd like some advice on where I can get something that is close to the old basic/advanced sets they USED to have in the 70s and 80s (and even 90s)....So far from looking the "Player's Kit" is the closest thing I can find without having to go out and buy every book there is (which I'm not willing to do at this point)....would love any help you could give.

I'd just like to play some D&D with my son and wife and create our own characters and hit some adventures and have a reference book by our side that has some charts in it as well....even price lists....like the old softcover rulebooks used to have.

~Chad

I'd recommend Castles & Crusades (http://www.trolllord.com/newsite/cnc/80102.html) and its accompanying Monsters & Treasures (http://www.trolllord.com/newsite/cnc/8011.html) book. This uses the streamlined, open-source rules of 3E and but is wired for the simplicity of earlier editions. I found D&D 3E had way too many rules for me to run a fun game with, but C&C hit just that dungeon-crawling, level-gaining, monster-stomping itch just right.

There's a free set of quick start rules over here: http://www.trolllord.com/newsite/cnc/ccqs.html

And some free adventures on the site, too, over here: http://www.trolllord.com/newsite/downloads/index.html

[Spinachcat]

As others mentioned, 4e is coming soon, but it will be a VERY different game than your old memories of D&D from the early editions. It may be an awesome game (ask me in July), but it will be a far cry from our old gaming days.

Your best bet for the moment is probably to get an old basic set - The Basic Red Book and Expert Blue Book from eBay. It is still the coolest set for beginners.

BTW, there is a free game called "Mazes & Minotaurs" that is very akin to old school D&D, but it is focussed on the Greek Myths instead of Tolkein-style medieval adventures. Highly recommended for its amazing quality and VERY newbie friendly. . . unlike 3.5 . . .

MAZES and MINOTAURS (http://storygame.free.fr/MAZES.htm)

[mhacdebhandia]

I'd like some advice on where I can get something that is close to the old basic/advanced sets they USED to have in the 70s and 80s (and even 90s)....So far from looking the "Player's Kit" is the closest thing I can find without having to go out and buy every book there is (which I'm not willing to do at this point)....would love any help you could give.
That Player's Kit includes some dice and a softcover version of the current revised Third Edition (3.5) Player's Handbook, so it's something like the old D&D boxed sets but not exactly the same thing.

The game currently published as Third Edition Dungeons & Dragons is more properly the successor to Second Edition Advanced Dungeon & Dragons, albeit with a "reimagined" game system - the "non-advanced" game doesn't really exist anymore. Both of the Basic Sets published during the Third Edition era are meant as "introductory" products to the Third Edition game, which is why they're quite simple and far from as complete a starter game as the old "red box" Basic Set was.

As others have mentioned, Wizards of the Coast (which bought TSR in the late Nineties) is publishing a Fourth Edition of Dungeons & Dragons in June next year, so Third Edition products are going cheap.

My advice, if you're at all interested in the newest version of D&D, would be to pick up either that Player's Kit or simply a copy of the Third Edition Player's Handbook and some dice - and then use the freely-available rules for monsters and treasure at this System Reference Document website (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/home.html) or any of the others mentioned upthread to get the game going for your kids.

Most of the Player's Handbook rules are reprinted in the System Reference Document I just linked to, except for the character creation rules, but it also includes monsters and all the material from the Dungeon Master's Guide . . . except the rules for awarding experience and advancing characters, unfortunately, because the SRD is intended as a rules basis for support products from third-party publishers, not as a replacement for the rulebooks for players, you know?

Still, you can definitely run a great game by just handwaving experience and advancement - like "You level when you've finished exploring the dungeon", say - and there are certainly more than enough monsters in the SRD!

Still, if you like the way Third Edition plays you'll want the Dungeon Master's Guide and Monster Manual eventually. If you don't, and want something simpler (remembering, again, that Third Edition is the successor to AD&D), one of the games upthread might suit you better, like Labyrinth Lord.

Fourth Edition, coming out next year, looks like a pretty good game to me, but it's certainly true that D&D isn't the same game it was when First Edition AD&D or the Basic Set were a new player's options for getting into the hobby. Still, if you like how Third Edition plays, you might find Fourth Edition even better in six months' time - I expect to.

[brianm]

Riffing off Bloodwolf's post, there's also the Basic Fantasy RPG (http://www.basicfantasy.org/main.html), which recreates 1st edition AD&D.

All of these are free and use the new "open-source" rules for 3rd edition D&D to recreate older versions of the game, just with a bit more of the internal consistency of the latest version of the rules. Of the three, I think I'd recommend Labyrinth Lord for your needs, but that's just based on reading all three and not actually playing any of them.

Best of luck, and let us know how your adventures go!

- Brian

[JimLotFP]

Riffing off Bloodwolf's post, there's also the Basic Fantasy RPG (http://www.basicfantasy.org/main.html), which recreates 1st edition AD&D.

No, it doesn't. It's an adaptation of the old Basic D&D, similar enough to grab-n-play, but just different enough to surprise you in some of the details.

[Endless Flight]

I'd just buy a copy of the old basic boxed set off of eBay. You can get them for under $10. If you bought the current 3.5 rules, you'd sink at least $40-50, although the prices have been dropping recently due to the new edition coming soon.

[vitus979]

My advice, if you're at all interested in the newest version of D&D, would be to pick up either that Player's Kit or simply a copy of the Third Edition Player's Handbook and some dice - and then use the freely-available rules for monsters and treasure at this System Reference Document website (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/home.html) or any of the others mentioned upthread to get the game going for your kids.

Most of the Player's Handbook rules are reprinted in the System Reference Document I just linked to, except for the character creation rules, but it also includes monsters and all the material from the Dungeon Master's Guide . . . except the rules for awarding experience and advancing characters, unfortunately, because the SRD is intended as a rules basis for support products from third-party publishers, not as a replacement for the rulebooks for players, you know?

The SRD also does not include some marquee monsters like the Beholder and Mind Flayer for copyright reasons. For those same reasons some spell names have been altered. In the SRD it's not Tenser's Floating Disk, it's just Floating Disk. None of the Greyhawk information normally in the core books (because Greyhawk is the default setting for 3.x) is in the SRD either, so all the information on the Greyhawk Pantheon in the PHB and Deities & Demigods is missing.

All that said, I'd suggest trolling ebay for cheap copies of the 3.5 core books. As pointed out upthread, with the coming of 4e you can probably get them pretty cheap.

[Samaritan]

The D&D Rules Cyclopedia (the culmination of the Basic/Expert/Companion/Master/Immortal- aka Red/Blue/Green/Black/Tan- rulebooks) and the Creature Compendium ('Monster Manual') are both up as PDF files over on RPGnow.com for about $5 a piece.

Can't really go wrong for a complete game for $10, especially if you're looking for nostalgia to pass on.

[Tori Bergquist]

I'd recommend Castles & Crusades (http://www.trolllord.com/newsite/cnc/80102.html) and its accompanying Monsters & Treasures (http://www.trolllord.com/newsite/cnc/8011.html) book. This uses the streamlined, open-source rules of 3E and but is wired for the simplicity of earlier editions. I found D&D 3E had way too many rules for me to run a fun game with, but C&C hit just that dungeon-crawling, level-gaining, monster-stomping itch just right.

There's a free set of quick start rules over here: http://www.trolllord.com/newsite/cnc/ccqs.html

And some free adventures on the site, too, over here: http://www.trolllord.com/newsite/downloads/index.html

And I second this notion. Castles & Crusades is as close to classic D&D as you can get in the In-Print market today.

[phobia]

OK, there is one more option you should consider.

Hackmaster is a licensed "version" of AD&D 1/2 that captures much of that Old School feeling you probably remember from your old gamer days.

It's currently OOP, but can be had on Ebay, same as many of the other books recommended above.

In addition to providing a complete game, the books are written with a certain attitude that parodies the style in which the original AD&D 1st edition books were written, making them highly entertaining to read in their own right.

http://www.kenzerco.com/index.php?cPath=25_26

[simontmn]

I like Castles & Crusades a lot, but for maximum simplicity and ease of play I'd recommend the Basic Fantasy RPG linked upthread, it's reworked/tidied Basic-Expert D&D taken up to 20th level, it's very well done and all it will cost you is paper & ink to print it out, or you can order a bound copy.

C&C is essentially redone AD&D with a nifty task resolution mechanic. Basic Fantasy is redone Basic-Expert D&D.

An alternative would be to use Ebay and order Basic/Expert off there, I prefer the Moldvay/Cook 1980 version for a complete game, though Mentzer Basic-Expert is fine too.

[ChadderCheese]

Thank you very much for ALL of your advice. I probably would have spent more money had it not been for your replies. Based on the fact that 3.5 sounds like it's more trouble than it's worth to try and learn myself, then teach my 11-year-old and my wife (who would just become bored), I dug out my old basic and expert sets....as well as my "Cylopedia" and my first edition DMG, HB, and MM....I'll mix it all up, sticking mainly to basic/expert/Cyclo. If we get more hardcore into it later on then there's always room for more....thanks again!