[RPG]: Warhammer 40,000: Dark Heresey, reviewed by skisko (5/5)

[RPGnet Reviews]

http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/13/13552.phtml

Samuel Kisko's Summary:

<i>This dark tome brings to life role-playing in the grim darkness of the 41st Millennium. Does it succeed in bringing glory to the God-Emperor? Or will it lay discarded and unused, much to the laughter of the Dark Gods?</i>

Go to the full review (http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/13/13552.phtml) for more information.

[RPGnet Reviews]

http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/13/13552.phtml

Samuel Kisko's Summary:

<i>This dark tome brings to life role-playing in the grim darkness of the 41st Millennium. Does it succeed in bringing glory to the God-Emperor? Or will it lay discarded and unused, much to the laughter of the Dark Gods?</i>

Go to the full review (http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/13/13552.phtml) for more information.

[weasel fierce]

Looks good. What do you feel the longterm play options look like ?

Would this book on its own let a group play for a year ? More than that ?

[Chiron]

Looks good. What do you feel the longterm play options look like ?

Would this book on its own let a group play for a year ? More than that ?

Easily, the career trees alone last for 15000xp and as a guide its suggested 200xp per 4 hours play/session

Just want to state I'm surprised and quite pleased by the Eisenhorn comment at the end of the review, more than a few people have railed heavily against the starting characters in the demo games.

[weasel fierce]

thats good news :)

I thought Eisenhorn was kind of tame. Too much "here's something neat and cool from a 40K book" and too much "now we skip 9 years ahead"

The old Inquisition war books (the first one in any event) or Gaunts Ghosts are more my thing.

[g026r]

If there are some differences in content between this edition and the normal edition my apologies in advance if my review is in error.

The only content difference is supposed to be that the collector's edition comes with the fold-out maps, while the standard edition does not; instead, preview photos seem to show that they're printed in a much smaller size on the flyleaves of that edition.

[ChadDubya]

Not to be an ass, I was really disappointed with this review. I was hoping for more discussion of the game's actual mechanics, and less assumptions about its realism/playability.

When I look at the careers, I see dungeon crawl classes. That's OK with me, but I'd like to know if this game is actually about investigating evil, or just blowing the shit out of it? Do the the Inquisition actually inquire? Do the rules reinforce investigation, interrogation, clues, etc?

Additionally, one aspect that the reviewer is keen on actually concerns me about the game: the critical hit charts. If I am reading this right, there are charts to determine how and where a target gets maimed. Is there a mechanical distinction between splattered blood vs. cooked flesh? Or is this strictly a narrative tool for folks too lazy to describe carnage?

Also, I wished you explained more about corruption/insanity/dark pacts, etc. Is this system merely tacked on to add a conscience to a dungeon crawl? Or is it a vital and interesting part of the game? Why would my character NOT want to sign dark pacts? Does the game just take away your PC (ala Cyberpsycosis in Cyberpunk), or is there some type of mechanical handicap or punishment you have to deal with if you sign Dark Pacts?

Anyways, IMHO, this reads like an advertisement, not a critical review. I feel I could get this same info from the back of the book. I want to know more about this game!

[hunting_moon]

I think the review was very good, it shows the writer feels very strongly about this product and cited why. I would have liked a better overview of the mechanics but I get a good sence of this book, far more than if I actually thumbed through it or looked at the back of the product. I think I will be looking into this game much more closely than I might have previously. Thanks.

[scumofsociety]

Just one thing...You CAN buy skills and talents from your previous career level.

And now in answer to the first poster:

There is a mechanical difference between different types of damage, some kill or disable you quicker or in different ways.

The game does push you towards investigation. Unless your GM is a real soft touch you will die pretty quickly if you rush in guns blazing.

Insanity and corruption do have very marked effects, just like in WFRP, they can really mess your character up.
Dark pacts: you have just sold your soul to the devil (or the 40K equivalent). Fairly large down side to that one I think.

Game mechanics: most things based on a D100 roll under a percentile ability score. Average human is about 30%. Various modifiers, usually +/- 10-30.

weapons do damage usually (10+#, +1st digit of attckers strength score in melee) - (1st digit of targets toughness score + armour) average of about 12 wounds to start with and doesnt increase much.

I think the game gets things right between playability and complexity on combat, its quick but detailed enough to be varied. It feels like WFRP but developed to the next level, ironing out all the kinks in it and adding lots of neat new ideas. In a way the career system is a bit more limited than FRP, but that is justified given the setting, and the careers are diverse within themselves.

[SteveD]

Thanks for a good review!

[samkisko]

Just one thing...You CAN buy skills and talents from your previous career level.

Yup, sorry I phrased that poorly. I should have clarified that you indeed can buy them in the previous ranks you have chosen. It would just be very difficult to buy all the advancements for an entire rank.

As for the first poster, it was a 400 page book and honestly I felt the review was getting too long as it is. I was more interested in getting an overall impression down rather than dry mechanical issues. I'm sure some other reviews for this book will be popping up and perhaps they will answer your questions.

[Spinachcat]

Somebody get me a playtest review!!

[xechnao2]

...combat veteran and is definitely pleased about the range combat options...

I find this comment insulting. Even if you only wanted to state in the review that the game successfully simulates combat realism that adjective choice is most unfortunate IMO - when I read this it felt kind of embarassing coming to read a review at the site.

BTW, the discussion link in the review page seems broken atm.

[capnzapp]

As with any 5/5 review, the first impression is "oh no, not another advert or fanboi" as rpg.net is infamous for.

But the amount and quality of the review's information and analysis is certainly of a higher level than that.

So, for the game's first rpg.net review, it is fairly okay - I give it a 3–/3+. I would still like to see more on actual details, and more importantly, more attention to the criticism part of the review. As it is, it is overly enthusiastic, thus the 3– for Style.

Only by showing what's bad can you give the reader enough information to make up his or her own mind of whether the product is worth its grade, especially if that grade is a lofty 5/5.

But something's telling me there are more reviews of this particular product in the pipeline...! :)

[Failed Saving Throw]

Not to be an ass, I was really disappointed with this review. I was hoping for more discussion of the game's actual mechanics, and less assumptions about its realism/playability.

When I look at the careers, I see dungeon crawl classes. That's OK with me, but I'd like to know if this game is actually about investigating evil, or just blowing the shit out of it? Do the the Inquisition actually inquire? Do the rules reinforce investigation, interrogation, clues, etc?

Additionally, one aspect that the reviewer is keen on actually concerns me about the game: the critical hit charts. If I am reading this right, there are charts to determine how and where a target gets maimed. Is there a mechanical distinction between splattered blood vs. cooked flesh? Or is this strictly a narrative tool for folks too lazy to describe carnage?

Also, I wished you explained more about corruption/insanity/dark pacts, etc. Is this system merely tacked on to add a conscience to a dungeon crawl? Or is it a vital and interesting part of the game? Why would my character NOT want to sign dark pacts? Does the game just take away your PC (ala Cyberpsycosis in Cyberpunk), or is there some type of mechanical handicap or punishment you have to deal with if you sign Dark Pacts?

Anyways, IMHO, this reads like an advertisement, not a critical review. I feel I could get this same info from the back of the book. I want to know more about this game!

I too was disappointed with this review. I wouldn't worry though - when this book comes out in general release, it's going to be as dissected as the DD& 4E releases.

[Asklepios]

Well, as one fanboi to another, I like your review and my anticipation for the game has certainly increased. The review may lack some things that others wanted to see, and it may be saturated with your opinion, but at the end of the day that's what reviews are mean to be. They're not meant to be full previews of a game, or in depth discussions of its intricacies. This seemed like a balanced opinion piece, was well laid out and of a decent length, with nice pictures and clear gramatically correct and properly spelled writing. Well done!

Let's face it, we were all going to buy it anyway, so *yeh*.

[Kai Tave]

I find this comment insulting. Even if you only wanted to state in the review that the game successfully simulates combat realism that adjective choice is most unfortunate IMO - when I read this it felt kind of embarassing coming to read a review at the site.

Huh?

[samkisko]

Huh?

Yeah I had to read that twice :P

[Jon Finn]

Thanks for the review!

Does this core rulebook cover topics like high gravity, low gravity and zero gravity environments, or is it more science-fantasy?

[Tori Bergquist]

Yes, thanks for the review, because otherwise I would have no idea there was a WH40K role playing game out there....I don't do minis, so I don't follow that, but the fiction has been inspiring. I'm just flabberghasted that this review is the very first I've heard of Dark Heresy....I don't know whether to blame poor advertising and press on their part, or if I am somehow slipping on my upcoming-release-fu.

[Allandaros]

Yes, thanks for the review, because otherwise I would have no idea there was a WH40K role playing game out there....I don't do minis, so I don't follow that, but the fiction has been inspiring. I'm just flabberghasted that this review is the very first I've heard of Dark Heresy....I don't know whether to blame poor advertising and press on their part, or if I am somehow slipping on my upcoming-release-fu.

I'd wager on your upcoming-release-fu slipping, I'm afraid; Dark Heresy has been getting a fair amount of press, including several threads over in Tabletop Open.

[Skywalker]

When I look at the careers, I see dungeon crawl classes. That's OK with me, but I'd like to know if this game is actually about investigating evil, or just blowing the shit out of it? Do the the Inquisition actually inquire? Do the rules reinforce investigation, interrogation, clues, etc?

Investigation certainly in a big focus of Inquisitor stories. I would say that the game has slightly more rules directed toward investigation than WFRP and Call of Cthulhu.

Additionally, one aspect that the reviewer is keen on actually concerns me about the game: the critical hit charts. If I am reading this right, there are charts to determine how and where a target gets maimed. Is there a mechanical distinction between splattered blood vs. cooked flesh? Or is this strictly a narrative tool for folks too lazy to describe carnage?

There are seperate charts for Energy, Impact, Rending and Explosive damage. There are 4 charts for each type covering the head, arms, body and legs. There are 10 entries on each chart. So that's 160 different types of damage described.

Also, I wished you explained more about corruption/insanity/dark pacts, etc. Is this system merely tacked on to add a conscience to a dungeon crawl? Or is it a vital and interesting part of the game? Why would my character NOT want to sign dark pacts? Does the game just take away your PC (ala Cyberpsycosis in Cyberpunk), or is there some type of mechanical handicap or punishment you have to deal with if you sign Dark Pacts?

The Insanity system is very similar to that in WFRP but they have adding Corruption to it. Again, the rules add an interesting dimension to the game but the overall style of the RPG is one of a traditional RPG design.

[capnzapp]

...I'd like to know if this game is actually about investigating evil, or just blowing the shit out of it? Do the the Inquisition actually inquire? Do the rules reinforce investigation, interrogation, clues, etc?

I'd say it's about both. Just like WFRP. Compared to D&D, though, I'd say "heavy on investigation" no matter what! ;)

Not sure what you mean by your last question - whether investigation is "reinforced" would depend on what the published adventures will focus on. It is "reinforced" in the basic way that if you just run up to stuff and try to kill it, it will probably kill you first.

Not having a shitload of hp can be said to "reinforce" investigation I guess! :)


Additionally, one aspect that the reviewer is keen on actually concerns me about the game: the critical hit charts. If I am reading this right, there are charts to determine how and where a target gets maimed. Is there a mechanical distinction between splattered blood vs. cooked flesh? Or is this strictly a narrative tool for folks too lazy to describe carnage?

Well, if you're dead, you're dead no matter what. So I guess I'll have to answer "narrative tool for lazy GMs".

But as I am lazy (aren't we all?) this is all good - gory crit tables are FUN! :)

[capnzapp]

Just adding for archive reasons:

Only three days(!) after the official release of Dark Heresy the news is that Black Publishing ceases to publish role-playing games, dropping both DH and WFRP.

http://www.blackindustries.com/?template=BI&content=newslist&newsitem=350

[Shining Dragon]

Thanks for the review!

Does this core rulebook cover topics like high gravity, low gravity and zero gravity environments, or is it more science-fantasy?

There is some mention about the effects of low gravity on a characters attributes for both low and high gravity worlds. Page 213 for those with the book.

In short - agility is affected for the purpose of movement, Strength and Toughness Bonuses are affected when determining carrying, lifting and pushing limits, and throwing stuff. Jumping and Leaping distances are doubled/halved.