View Full Version : Paizo FINALLY deciding on 4e courtesy of goblins
joela
03-18-2008, 10:06 AM
Paizo (http://paizo.com/nostore)
Speculation on ENWorld is that the former publisher of Dragon/Dungeon must have received the GSL.
That Idiot
03-18-2008, 10:10 AM
Paizo (http://paizo.com/nostore)
Speculation on ENWorld is that the former publisher of Dragon/Dungeon must have received the GSL.
Why would that shut down their website?
*I just reread the words on the Paizo site and they include the phrase 'forcing a decision'. That would definitely point to 4E.*
Piestrio
03-18-2008, 10:33 AM
They would be utterly stupid not to go with 4e. I mean really, really stupid.
Like epicly stupid.
really.
Piestrio
Maybe those are customer service Goblins and Paizo is finally going to outsource their store to someone who can handle it. My last order there took three weeks to get from pending to shipping on in stock items. To make matters worse, this was my Green Ronin sale make up order. Ironic or sad, I'm not sure which.
Merrick
blizack
03-18-2008, 10:58 AM
I'm loving that painting... especially the fact that one of the goblins is on fire himself. Here's hoping Paizo supports 4e, because I like Paizo but really am done with 3e.
Nelzie
03-18-2008, 11:00 AM
Why would that shut down their website?
*I just reread the words on the Paizo site and they include the phrase 'forcing a decision'. That would definitely point to 4E.*
That can also mean: "Out of money! Oh Noes! I can has Chapter 11 Bankruptcy?"
I am only pointing out that forced decisions aren't always good decisions...
I have no idea what is happening there and don't really care in the grand scheme of things.
flashman
03-18-2008, 11:03 AM
Maybe those are customer service Goblins and Paizo is finally going to outsource their store to someone who can handle it. My last order there took three weeks to get from pending to shipping on in stock items. To make matters worse, this was my Green Ronin sale make up order. Ironic or sad, I'm not sure which.
Merrick
Maybe they just don't like Canada.
That Idiot
03-18-2008, 11:16 AM
Maybe they just don't like Canada.
Who does? ;)
Stalkre
03-18-2008, 11:20 AM
That can also mean: "Out of money! Oh Noes! I can has Chapter 11 Bankruptcy?"
Well, that does seem like a more likely reason to shut down the shop than upgrading to 4e does, but usually such things don't leave one in the spirit to put up a funny image. :)
naturaltwenty
03-18-2008, 11:45 AM
meh - I just subscribed to the Pathfinder Chronicles subscription so I get my 15% off everything I order. Lot's of good it's doing me without a store:)
I'll wait and see - I've had excellent results from everything I've ever ordered. I think the /nostore is just a default directory. Poor choice of words but it may be that their php crashed and they had to force the url while work is being done.
Later
Nelzie
03-18-2008, 12:13 PM
Well, that does seem like a more likely reason to shut down the shop than upgrading to 4e does, but usually such things don't leave one in the spirit to put up a funny image. :)
Some people actually do laugh in the face of danger.
Matt C.
03-18-2008, 12:50 PM
Maybe those are customer service Goblins and Paizo is finally going to outsource their store to someone who can handle it. My last order there took three weeks to get from pending to shipping on in stock items. To make matters worse, this was my Green Ronin sale make up order. Ironic or sad, I'm not sure which.
QFT
I've had nothing but dissappointment ordering from Paizo. Stuff gets delayed forever, etc. I have a friend who has said he will never order from them directly again.
Too bad really because I do like their stuff.
Soundchaser
03-18-2008, 01:08 PM
So someone did a hack or their really down due to internal stuff... interesting joke, indeed.
Nahualt
03-18-2008, 01:17 PM
Well I do really hope its all 4e related. I love paizo and I think the best stuff fro dragon/dungeon was under their wing. I cancelled my Dragon/Dungeon subcription a couple of years back when my 3.x love was killed.
If they come up with a nice 4e mag( even if its PDF) I will gladly subscribe.:)
Damnit, I was just about to order stuff.
You'd think someone from paizo would have appeared to explain what's up.
Seroster
03-18-2008, 01:36 PM
Can someone remind me where those goblins came from? I remember reading the writeup, which was pretty good. Are those 4e goblins or from something by Paizo?
Matthew
03-18-2008, 01:43 PM
I think with every edition of D&D there's a substantive % of players who won't switch. The question is; is that audience, is the Internet visiting % of that % of players big enough to support Paizo.
Sleeper
03-18-2008, 01:49 PM
When Wizards decided they needed a short race for the new PH, those goblins should have set the the halflings' furless feet on fire and put the gnomes to the sword, and stepped in. All hail our knee-capping Evil Underlords!
naturaltwenty
03-18-2008, 01:51 PM
The goblins come from Golarian - the Paizo campaign world where the Pathfinder Adventure Paths and GameMastery modules take place.
Later
Can someone remind me where those goblins came from? I remember reading the writeup, which was pretty good. Are those 4e goblins or from something by Paizo?
omnimpotent
03-18-2008, 02:06 PM
The goblins come from Golarian - the Paizo campaign world where the Pathfinder Adventure Paths and GameMastery modules take place.
Later
And they sing!
THE GOBLIN SONG
Goblins chew and goblins bite.
Goblins cut and goblins fight.
Stab the dog and cut the horse,
Goblins eat and take by force!
Goblins race and goblins jump.
Goblins slash and goblins bump.
Burn the skin and mash the head,
Goblins here and you be dead!
Chase the baby, catch the pup.
Bonk the head to shut it up.
Bones be cracked, flesh be stewed,
We be goblins! You be food!
Pete Whalley
03-18-2008, 02:10 PM
On the one hand I can see Paizo switching to 4e because of the financial and business considerations. It would make sense, and I hope they're around for a long time to come.
On the other, I hope they don't because I want to keep buying 3.x stuff from them forever. :)
Russell Hoyle
03-18-2008, 02:41 PM
I have had nothing but excellent customer service from Paizo.
I have received subsciptions and individual orders in a timely manner in every single case, and I am in Australia!
Cheers,
Rusty
And they sing!
THE GOBLIN SONG
Goblins chew and goblins bite.
Goblins cut and goblins fight.
Stab the dog and cut the horse,
Goblins eat and take by force!
Goblins race and goblins jump.
Goblins slash and goblins bump.
Burn the skin and mash the head,
Goblins here and you be dead!
Chase the baby, catch the pup.
Bonk the head to shut it up.
Bones be cracked, flesh be stewed,
We be goblins! You be food!
Heh. That reminds me of the greatest goblin story ever told. The story of Kappuksu, the goblin samurai. (http://www.kazenoshiro.com/kazenoshiro/3/kappuksu.html)
Christian
03-18-2008, 02:50 PM
And they sing!
THE GOBLIN SONG
Goblins chew and goblins bite.
Goblins cut and goblins fight...
I am going to teach this to my students. I think it will go over big for our spring concert.
Beginning of the End
03-18-2008, 02:57 PM
I don't understand this thread.
(1) The original poster links to the equivalent of a 404 notice and people conclude that the store is down... but the store is still up and running.
(2) The original poster hypothesizes that this must mean that Paizo is going with 4th edition...
(3) ... despite the fact that this is the day that Paizo announced their 3.5-compatible rulebook.
I don't get it. Am I missing the joke or something?
JorrJorr
03-18-2008, 03:05 PM
I just went on to their website and they've decided. It looks like they're going for their own 3.5 derived Rule Set called Pathfinder. I'm downloading their freebie right now and will give it look over.
I've always like Paizo's products and wasn't really in the market for switching. I'll probably look at 4e when it comes out, but I'm not in any hurry.
Their announcement is on their home page.
naturaltwenty
03-18-2008, 03:09 PM
Here's the message - I've got no idea what it says though - just posting.
Paizo Publishing® Announces the Pathfinder RPG™
Pathfinder™ to continue under the 3.5 rules.
Tuesday, March 19th, 2008
Paizo Publishing today unveiled the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, a tabletop fantasy roleplaying game that will serve as the anchor for the company's popular line of Pathfinder adventures, sourcebooks, and campaigns. Today marks the beginning of a year-long Open Playtest of the new rules, which are based upon the popular 3.5 rules available under the Open Game License. The Pathfinder RPG is designed with backward compatibility as one of its primary goals, so players will continue to enjoy their lifelong fantasy gaming hobby without invalidating their entire game library. The first Pathfinder RPG Alpha release is available now as a free 65-page PDF download at paizo.com/pathfinderRPG. Until the finished Pathfinder RPG's release as a hardcover rulebook in August 2009, all of Paizo's popular Pathfinder-brand products will continue under the current 3.5 rules set.
"I'm really excited to work with the playtesters to make this the best game possible," said Jason Bulmahn, Paizo's Lead Designer. "In the spirit of the Open Game movement, the Pathfinder RPG is really your roleplaying game. It's a huge thrill to get to lead the design process."
Paizo will issue additional Pathfinder RPG Alpha releases in the coming months, covering new changes and additions to the 3.5 rules. Gamers can download, read, and participate in the free open playtest by setting up a paizo.com account and joining the discussion with Paizo's design staff at paizo.com/pathfinderRPG. The Pathfinder RPG will be backward-compatible with the 3.5 rules, and the staff has kept this goal as a primary focus since design began in 2007.
This coming August, Paizo will release a massive, full-color, softcover Pathfinder RPG Beta release for $24.99. This book will be available on paizo.com, at Gen Con, as well as through hobby distribution at local game stores. Just like the Alpha releases, the Beta release will be available as a free PDF download on paizo.com. As Wizards of the Coast's core 3.5 rulebooks are expected to go out of print with the release of 4th Edition, Paizo will use the Pathfinder RPG as a replacement for the 3.5 core rules. The Pathfinder RPG Beta release will represent Paizo's first published take on an updated 3.5 system, and playtesting will continue through spring 2009, when Paizo will incorporate the open playtest feedback and create a hardcover Pathfinder RPG for release in the hobby trade, bookstores, and paizo.com in August 2009.
Paizo hopes to support 4th Edition with fan-created online conversions of its Pathfinder products and a complete line from its partner company, Necromancer Games, a trend-setter in the original Open Gaming movement. Necromancer has already announced a new 4th Edition version of their award-winning Tome of Horrors monster encyclopedia, and has plans for additional player and GM support products.
Today, Paizo also announced the hiring of Nicolas Logue to run the Pathfinder Society organized play campaign, a massive mega-campaign to launch at this year's Gen Con. The Pathfinder Society will feature events at major conventions, retail stores, and home play as a way to involve thousands of players in a constantly evolving campaign environment fueled by downloadable scenarios released by Paizo. Nicolas Logue is a long-time Paizo contributor to the print versions of Dragon and Dungeon as well as the Pathfinder Adventure Paths and Pathfinder Modules line. He also co-runs an annual competition at Gen Con called Iron DM that will continue to be co-run by Nicolas Logue and his Iron DM compatriots. Nick begins working at Paizo in April.
"Nicolas Logue is one of the most energetic, personable gamers I have ever met," said Erik Mona, Paizo's Publisher and the co-founder during his tenure at Wizards of the Coast of Living Greyhawk, the largest organized play RPG campaign in history. "Running a successful organized play campaign involves a magical combination of cool ideas, organizational skills, and enthusiasm. Nick is absolutely the perfect man for the job, and I'm thrilled that he will be joining us here at Paizo."
Additional information on the Pathfinder Society campaign can be found at paizo.com/pathfindersociety.
Good news. If only Wizards would let them have Greyhawk...
Nahualt
03-18-2008, 03:22 PM
So their solution is make their own brand of 3.5 version and run with it?
Wow, this seems rather backwards.:confused:
naturaltwenty
03-18-2008, 03:25 PM
30 years of luddites who continue to play BECMI, AD&D 1st and 2nd edition, seems to be enough of a market to continue catering too. Will it equal 4E converts - not in the least but the company (Paizo) can be financially successful by utilizing the existing and soon to be released rules set.
Later
So their solution is make their own brand of 3.5 version and run with it?
Wow, this seems rather backwards.:confused:
Soundchaser
03-18-2008, 03:32 PM
Well, my guess is that Paizo wants to maintain support for 3.5e as there will be people in that market segment. And if they are smart, and I think the folks at Paizo are smart, then they will also step up to 4e as well.
Chris Gardiner
03-18-2008, 03:39 PM
Wow! I'm surprised by that decision. I'll be hopping off the Pathfinder train if they aren't switching to 4th edition, but best of luck to them. The edition change puts them in a difficult situation, and uncoupling their fortunes from those of WOTC must be kind of liberating for them. Plus, everyone who prefers 3rd edition is now guaranteed a continuing supply of excellent material.
Oh, and I've found their customer service top-notch. The one problem I had was resolved quickly, courteously, and with zero fuss. I've been very happy with them.
La Maupin
03-18-2008, 03:50 PM
Reading Book of Experimental Might basically put me off of any 3.75 that could be out there. The Pathfinder RPG has "OGL Heartbreaker" written all over it.
Yo! Master
03-18-2008, 03:59 PM
Reading Book of Experimental Might basically put me off of any 3.75 that could be out there. The Pathfinder RPG has "OGL Heartbreaker" written all over it.
But at least Book of Experimental Might is not what i'd consider a good take on the 3.75 idea, far from it. Because we all know that what 3.5 needs is to make magic even stronger *snort* Sorry, Monte, but your fixations were really showing in this one.
Nahualt
03-18-2008, 03:59 PM
30 years of luddites who continue to play BECMI, AD&D 1st and 2nd edition, seems to be enough of a market to continue catering too. Will it equal 4E converts - not in the least but the company (Paizo) can be financially successful by utilizing the existing and soon to be released rules set.
Later
So the plan is to cater to luddites ( lol that made me laugh) until sales start to drop and then switch to 4e?
Sounds like a sound business plan.
I just wish they would cater to both markets. :(
Meh, I didn't want 3.75 from WotC and I can't imagine I'll want it from Paizo. Ah well, good luck to the company!
La Maupin
03-18-2008, 04:12 PM
But at least Book of Experimental Might is not what i'd consider a good take on the 3.75 idea, far from it. Because we all know that what 3.5 needs is to make magic even stronger *snort* Sorry, Monte, but your fixations were really showing in this one.
It strikes me as amusing that some people are bitching about the timing of 4E, yet Paizo plans to release two nearly orthagonal "editions" within 12 months of each other.
naturaltwenty
03-18-2008, 04:14 PM
More than likely you'll find that there'll be 4e conversions posted all over the place...unless Wizards goes back to the enforcement of the ol'TSR/AOL days.
So the plan is to cater to luddites ( lol that made me laugh) until sales start to drop and then switch to 4e?
Sounds like a sound business plan.
I just wish they would cater to both markets. :(
GAAAHHHH
03-18-2008, 04:35 PM
Wizards had every opportunity to convince Paizo to switch. The fact that they haven't gotten the GSL most likely put Paizo in a position where they couldn't switch and had to turn to their plan B.
Bloodwolf
03-18-2008, 04:46 PM
It strikes me as amusing that some people are bitching about the timing of 4E, yet Paizo plans to release two nearly orthagonal "editions" within 12 months of each other.
Had to look that word up.
And I still don't get it.
So, two free (at least pdf) "editions" versus a new edition that the buy in starts at just over 100 dollars? Something free that I can and will use, versus something I must buy that I feel is going further away from what drew me in as a player when I was but a wee lad?
I don't think it is so much timing as bitching about the inevitability of change. Some people don't want change. In this hobby one does not even have to accept it. Now we have a company that will try, for at least a while, to cater to us instead of jumping on the WotC 4e bandwagon.
I say, cool.
Nahat Anoj
03-18-2008, 04:51 PM
While WotC isn't under any obligation to release any sort of license whatsoever, I wish they had the GSL ready. That way Paizo's stuff, with its amazing art and production values, could be a part of 4e's launch. I guess it's not a huge loss to me, since I haven't bought any Paizo stuff, but I was looking forward to a 4e adventure path. But what really worries me is that, at the rate they're going, the GSL won't be available in time for Goodman Games or Necromancer Games to get stuff out in a timely manner. I guess Ari Marmell, who playtested 4e, is making some 4e stuff right now for NG, so NG will have things written. But from what I understand it takes a while to actually get something printed out.
Wolfwood2
03-18-2008, 05:03 PM
Huh. One of the guys I game with really loves Paizo. Looks like I'm going to have to start lobbying within the group to convince him to abandon that sinking ship.
Nahualt
03-18-2008, 05:09 PM
Well I downloaded their free pathfinder pdf, I am sad to say that I did not see anything new or innovative that would convince me to stay on 3.5. All I saw were some of the rules variants or ideas I have seen in other earlier publications.
Having said that, I wish them success and hope that they can deliver to their desired market with the same quality that they have always delivered.
I just wish ( and I reiterate in the hopes that somehow my wish comes true) that they release their publications with 4e conversions or even dual statted books.
I think Paizo does an excellent job and have awesome product values on their publications, I would have loved a 4e campaign done by them or a Pathfinder conversion.
Reverend Keith
03-18-2008, 05:26 PM
30 years of luddites who continue to play BECMI, AD&D 1st and 2nd edition, seems to be enough of a market to continue catering too. Will it equal 4E converts - not in the least but the company (Paizo) can be financially successful by utilizing the existing and soon to be released rules set.
IMO, that remains to be seen. I don't know of any publishing companies specifically catering to the "luddite" market with a stream of new releases to keep a few full time employees on staff. From what I can tell, "Old school" games appear to be a labor of love for both the players and the publishers. :(
Wizards had every opportunity to convince Paizo to switch. The fact that they haven't gotten the GSL most likely put Paizo in a position where they couldn't switch and had to turn to their plan B.This I definitely agree with. The delays with releasing the GSL to their partners in support of 4e has been very disappointing. If this does hurt WotC and 4e in any way (I think it will a bit, not not significantly), a big part of it is likely WotC's fault for not providing the GSL in a timely fashion. You can't expect your would-be partners to continually delay their production schedules indefinitely. I probably won't be buying the non-4e Paizo stuff after the release of 4e (I've got tons of 3e and 3.5e stuff to work my way through already), but I certainly can't blame them for taking this decision. Well, I guess I'd rather they simply supported 3.5e, rather than coming up with Paizo3.75e. Either it's going to be 3.5e with insignificant changes or it will be different enough that there will be yet another variant out there to keep track of.
I'm pretty happy. I don't see what's so broken about 3.5 that they needed a completely new edition and what 4e-related stuff I've browsed in the bookstore (does anyone actually buy those fourth edition teasers?) looks like bullshit.
Paizo make supplements for D&D but if the company that makes D&D is going in the wrong direction and Paizo can keep sort of going in the same direction they were going in, then that's great.
IMO, that remains to be seen. I don't know of any publishing companies specifically catering to the "luddite" market with a stream of new releases to keep a few full time employees on staff. From what I can tell, "Old school" games appear to be a labor of love for both the players and the publishers. :(
Other than Kenzer with Hackmaster (license now expired), did anyone have a license to produce new material for old TSR games?
30 years of luddites who continue to play BECMI, AD&D 1st and 2nd edition, seems to be enough of a market to continue catering too. Will it equal 4E converts - not in the least but the company (Paizo) can be financially successful by utilizing the existing and soon to be released rules set.
Later
I don't know. The key to the people who continue to play 30 year old games is that they don't invest in versions of the same game. Although the current Pathfinder modules are fairly generic, how long until the Pathfinder RPG becomes a requirement? And at that point you have to ask yourself: do I fork out 30 bucks for a slightly different version of the game I already own or do I look for something new like say D&D 4.0?
I don't see this catering to the classic gamer audience. I think the primary target are Malhavoc fans who continue to buy slight alterations of the same rules they've bought three times already.
It's a shame, really. The last few years have been a rennaisance of adventure design driven largely by the people at Paizo. I would rather see their energy and enthusiasm directed at the game most people will actually be playing.
Merrick
Sangrolu
03-18-2008, 05:42 PM
Meh, I didn't want 3.75 from WotC and I can't imagine I'll want it from Paizo. Ah well, good luck to the company!
I didn't want "another fantasy game packaged with D&D stamped on the cover" that 4e seems to be shaping up to be, so I guess I'll be taking this "3.75".
Nahat Anoj
03-18-2008, 05:49 PM
(does anyone actually buy those fourth edition teasers?)
*proudly raises his hand* :)
They actually were reasonably good sellers on Amazon.com a while back, and I think they were profitable products for WotC. The local Borders sold a few copies, which is about average for new gaming books IME.
I didn't want "another fantasy game packaged with D&D stamped on the cover" that 4e seems to be shaping up to be, so I guess I'll be taking this "3.75".
You know, this might be the best piece of rpg-related news I've had since ICE re-released Rolemaster Second Edition. Pretty happy that the company producing the best 3.x D&D material is going to stay in the 3.x genre and control their own game system to boot.
Reverend Keith
03-18-2008, 05:50 PM
Other than Kenzer with Hackmaster (license now expired), did anyone have a license to produce new material for old TSR games?
What about Labryinth Lord (BECMI) or OSRIC (AD&D)?
Is there anyone out there publishing new product covered via the OGL license for the above TSR clones?
What about Labryinth Lord (BECMI) or OSRIC (AD&D)?
Is there anyone out there publishing new product covered via the OGL license for the above TSR clones?
That's not the same thing though, is it? Paizo were producing the two house magazines until recently and they produce what many of us consider to be the best D&D material. And, in any case, if you were going to be into OSRIC, why wouldn't you have been into Hackmaster instead? If you're going to want 3.x to stay as a living game, and I would contend that quite a lot of people do, why wouldn't you be buying the Pathfinder stuff?
The other backward looking games, like Classic Battletech, presumably aren't cash generators but then, if Battletech had been generating that much cash, FASA wouldn't have shut anyhow, right?
My preferred situation would be no 4th edition. That's not going to happen, but this is the next best thing, for me. Even if it fails, of course, I'm no worse off, as I don't really want to invest in 4e. For me, as I said, what I'd really like is Greyhawk to get sold to them (as a reappearance of support for Greyhawk would be about the only thing that would sell me on 4e, except they'd presumably stink it up like they're going to do to Forgotten Realms for the transition and as they did with Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms going into 2nd ed) but somehow I don't see that happening. Still, a boy can dream...
Clavis123
03-18-2008, 06:06 PM
Other than Kenzer with Hackmaster (license now expired), did anyone have a license to produce new material for old TSR games?
Castles & Crusades is so compatible with older editions of D&D that conversions can be done on the fly. You could as easily run C&C modules with older versions of D&D as you can run older D&D modules with C&C. And of course, Gygax was releasing his authentic Castle Grayhawk for Castles & Crusades, partially beacuse it was so easy to convert.
Gentleman Highwayman
03-18-2008, 06:23 PM
I didn't want "another fantasy game packaged with D&D stamped on the cover" that 3e seems to be shaping up to be
Has it been that long that we see words like this again. :D
Iain.
Doc Eldritch
03-18-2008, 06:26 PM
I will be closely following the Pathfinder RPG, and will probably make a decision around about the time the Beta playtest PDF is available. Hey, it is free, might as well take a look. And since I have no intention of giving WotC a dime for 4e until I read it and see if it is worth my time, I have no real problem holding out a bit longer (a month or so) and seeing if Pathfinder is more my cup of tea, which, from the looks of things so far, it may well be.
Hopefully this goes well for Paizo, as they have consistently put out very good stuff, and I know that there will be a LOT of people who don't bother with 4e and prefer to stick with the 3.X stuff they already have. There is some stuff in 3.X that needs adjusting, to me, but 4e has a lot of things that are very unappealing to me so far, so I am still pretty undecided. We will have to see, once both games are available.
Zombie Flyboy
03-18-2008, 06:27 PM
That's not the same thing though, is it?
I don't know, I think a clone is a clone. So we'll have clones for 1e and basic, now a clone for 3.x. None are "authorized" by WotC, unless you know something the rest of us don't. Don't forget that before Dragon was taken away from Paizo, they featured a review of OSRIC material. From what I've seen, I think Erik Mona is sympathetic to the OSRIC cause. Looks like he thinks the approach of cloning old games is a good way to go. All the power to them, I say.
I don't know, I think a clone is a clone. So we'll have clones for 1e and basic, now a clone for 3.x. None are "authorized" by WotC, unless you know something the rest of us don't. Don't forget that before Dragon was taken away from Paizo, they featured a review of OSRIC material. From what I've seen, I think Erik Mona is sympathetic to the OSRIC cause. Looks like he thinks the approach of cloning old games is a good way to go. All the power to them, I say.
Well, Hackmaster was different as it was licensed. My point, though, was that Paizo have genuine credibility in this regard, and quite rightly so. Like you, I'm happy to wish Paizo the best of luck (and, indeed, they can have it with the benefit of some more of my money).
Gentleman Highwayman
03-18-2008, 06:34 PM
My 5 cents worth is that Pathfinder makes no sense in a D&D 4e PHB reality. In some ways Pathfinder is wed to 3.Xe rules. So publishing a ruleset for that line once the supply of new books disappears isn't all that strange. The key here is how much resources it consumes to make the book and if the changes they make from 3.5e PHB alienate the market they are trying to court.
I think that Paizo has a second part that basically is they want to see 4e and then possibly create a new setting that meshes with 4e sensibilities. But as they probablt won't see 4e until the rest of us they can't make any decisions about what that new world may be should they pursue 4e.
And no one seems to be talking about problems between this 3.75 rulebook and early Pathfinder adventures. You could have easily a situation where the later doesn't quite mesh with the former. The Pathfinder RPG may not be D&D 3.75, but something that only fans of the Pathfinder setting and adventures like and find useful.
I'm buying D&D 4e. I'm done with D&D 3.Xe. I'll still give a look at the Pathfinder RPG to see if it's something I might like even if just for the fluff and art.
Iain.
mhacdebhandia
03-18-2008, 06:35 PM
I'm not sure if I'm really that interested in a tweaked-and-cleaned-up version of Third Edition D&D, when so much of what I hear about Fourth Edition sounds a lot better.
However, Paizo is offering me the chance to see how their game develops over the next year or so, for free, and that's the point: I can see the direction they're going as they do, and I don't really have to make a decision until I've already tried Fourth Edition.
Maybe I'll end up playing both. Who knows?
NiTessine
03-18-2008, 06:42 PM
Looks good to me. I was already going to write a 3.75 update to continue using my sizeable library of 3.5 stuff. Paizo just saved me a lot of work. I'll be playtesting Alpha, if I can find the time. I'll certainly be playtesting Beta. And I will most assuredly buy the Pathfinder RPG when it comes out.
Many of the changes in the Alpha version had me nodding my head, going "that's exactly as I was gonna do it". They've fixed Toughness, they've fixed grapple, they've fixed Power Attack, they've fixed Diplomacy... heck, looks like they've even fixed fighters. There are still things I'm not sure about that'll I'll need to see in practice to say anything final, though. However, overall, it's a big step in the right direction.
I've already been picking up the Pathfinder module series as they've showed up at the game store. Paizo has demonstrated the ability to create products of consistently higher quality than WotC, too.
Also, Wayne Reynolds art. *drool*
Doc Eldritch
03-18-2008, 06:49 PM
I'm not sure if I'm really that interested in a tweaked-and-cleaned-up version of Third Edition D&D, when so much of what I hear about Fourth Edition sounds a lot better.
However, Paizo is offering me the chance to see how their game develops over the next year or so, for free, and that's the point: I can see the direction they're going as they do, and I don't really have to make a decision until I've already tried Fourth Edition.
Maybe I'll end up playing both. Who knows?
And that to me is a HUGE plus, and something WotC is NOT doing. Sure they have posted snips and dribbles of info (mostly the minis based combat stuff) about 4e, but nothing really meaty yet. Heck, if they did a release similar to this 66 page Pathfinder Alpha pdf for 4e, with basic class info and such, THAT would probably go a long way towards selling me or not on the game. Right now, I have seen fluff (which I like mostly), a few hints about characters and such (again, mostly liking), and a bunch of combat info (most of which I DON"T like at all).
Paizo is being pretty smart here I think, working on their game early enough, and giving free access to the playtest rules, that we get to see how it develops (and have input into that!), and make a decision from there.
enelson
03-18-2008, 07:16 PM
How big is the RPGA in terms of members?
To play in the RPGA sanctioned events next year, you'll probably have to play 4e.
Will Paizo counter this by creating their own "RPGA" and running sanctioned events for their Pathfinder RPG? Are they big enough (do they have the capital and resources) to create their own competition to the RPGA?
By my count, we have 3 "D&D" type (d20) games coming out soon.
1. 4e
2. Pathfinder
3. Fantasycraft
Any others?
fuji257
03-18-2008, 07:55 PM
This is fantastic news for me.
I've never purchased any Paizo stuff other than a Critical Hit Deck.
WoTC has been cranking out some real turds lately. The errata for the new minis game is already as large as the rulebook (and its not even released yet). Their books the last year or so hardly seem like they employ an editor (minus Eberron books). 3.5 is far from perfect, but with WoTC's track record I guarantee 4e will have some serious issues out of the gate. Hell, they have TWO Psionic Handbooks - and they both completely suck. Some company wants to iron a few wrinkles with 3.5 and keep going? Sounds like a fork in the road I wanna take.
Between all the available relatively new Eberron material and Paizo's cranking out new stuff, it may be a wise decision to wait until 4.5, at least.
mhacdebhandia
03-18-2008, 08:25 PM
And that to me is a HUGE plus, and something WotC is NOT doing.
It's cool, no doubt about it, but it doesn't make up for the fact that Fourth Edition still sounds like a better game to me.
A lot of the rules tweaks do seem cool. I guess I just feel like I'm not that interested in seeing another permutation of the Third Edition ruleset after getting into Arcana Unearthed, Iron Heroes, Arcana Evolved, and even more experimental stuff like True20.
Still, like I said, I could be wrong, and maybe I'll end up playing both. We'll have to see - and I'll be keeping an eye on the progress of the Pathfinder system anyway.
Nelzie
03-18-2008, 08:33 PM
30 years of luddites who continue to play BECMI, AD&D 1st and 2nd edition, seems to be enough of a market to continue catering too. Will it equal 4E converts - not in the least but the company (Paizo) can be financially successful by utilizing the existing and soon to be released rules set.
Later
Hey! Nice group attack you snuck in there.
Pete Whalley
03-18-2008, 08:36 PM
Awesome news. As I said above, I hoped to hear something like this, but didn't really believe it would happen.
Now to go download and read. While smiling.
Piestrio
03-18-2008, 09:27 PM
And that to me is a HUGE plus, and something WotC is NOT doing. Sure they have posted snips and dribbles of info (mostly the minis based combat stuff) about 4e, but nothing really meaty yet. Heck, if they did a release similar to this 66 page Pathfinder Alpha pdf for 4e, with basic class info and such, THAT would probably go a long way towards selling me or not on the game. Right now, I have seen fluff (which I like mostly), a few hints about characters and such (again, mostly liking), and a bunch of combat info (most of which I DON"T like at all).
Um, you haven't been keeping up have you?
We've seen a full class write up (rogue)
A full Race write up (Elf)
a good number of powers
Monsters
Magic Items
A "quick start" rules guide
Several fully stated pregen characters
and tons of info from the hundreds of people who played the game at D&DXP.
And probably a lot I'm missing.
EDIT: here, someone even put together a PHB "lite" using the preview material available. http://www.ucalgary.ca/~amwhit/PHB_4E_Lite_v1_1.pdf
piestrio
Matthew
03-18-2008, 11:10 PM
So their solution is make their own brand of 3.5 version and run with it?
Wow, this seems rather backwards.:confused:
Well, they don't really have much choice.
WotC has DDI which includes a shitton of online Dungeon and Dragon content as well as character builders and online play. There's simply no extant demand for 4E not covered by DDI.
Paizo doesn't really have a choice.
Maybe they could develop their own 4E setting, support that. But that would still put them at best #2 to WotC. This model lets them be #1 at something.
I'm interested to see what they do with 3.5. If they could take all the WotC 3.5 content and create a DDI for it, then I would try it out. There was a lot I liked about 3.5. I love what they're doing with 4, and I'll definitely play that, but with proper e*support for 3.5, Paizo could make it a tougher choice than it is right now.
Shisumo
03-19-2008, 12:21 AM
Will Paizo counter this by creating their own "RPGA" and running sanctioned events for their Pathfinder RPG? Are they big enough (do they have the capital and resources) to create their own competition to the RPGA?
I can't answer the latter question, but the answer to the former is a very definite yes. The "Pathfinder Society" is part of the announcement, and will be headed up by Nicholas Logue.
Beginning of the End
03-19-2008, 02:09 AM
It strikes me as amusing that some people are bitching about the timing of 4E, yet Paizo plans to release two nearly orthagonal "editions" within 12 months of each other.
Only in the vague sense that WotC released a "new edition" of the game in 1999 (which people refer to as the "beta test") and then referred another "new edition" in 2000.
I think your definition of the word "edition" needs some work.
Nahualt
03-19-2008, 03:08 AM
How big is the RPGA in terms of members?
To play in the RPGA sanctioned events next year, you'll probably have to play 4e.
Will Paizo counter this by creating their own "RPGA" and running sanctioned events for their Pathfinder RPG? Are they big enough (do they have the capital and resources) to create their own competition to the RPGA?
By my count, we have 3 "D&D" type (d20) games coming out soon.
1. 4e
2. Pathfinder
3. Fantasycraft
Any others?
Well the Pathfinder society maybe just that.
Ithaeur
03-19-2008, 03:17 AM
Well. Good luck to them; I think that this may end up being a good decision in the short run, and a bad one in the long run.
Acrozatarim
03-19-2008, 03:43 AM
Awesome.
I think Paizo are nuts, and I'm not sure this is going to work out in the long run, but good on 'em anyway!
If nothing else, it should make WotC feel that they have a little competition and cannot be complacent - the pressure, especially if Paizo do well with this, may spur Wizards to a better performance.
More choice is good.
Reverend Keith
03-19-2008, 11:16 AM
A lot of the rules tweaks do seem cool. I guess I just feel like I'm not that interested in seeing another permutation of the Third Edition ruleset after getting into Arcana Unearthed, Iron Heroes, Arcana Evolved, and even more experimental stuff like True20.
This hits the nail on the head for me. There have been plenty of excellent 3e variants that have scratched that itch for me. Unless 4e loses me and Paizo creates a revolutionary take on an 'old' rule set, I don't foresee myself dropping True20 for Pathfinder.
Still, I'm looking forward to seeing what they put out so I'll be keeping an eye on this as it develops.
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