[Let's Play] - Civ 4

[JerekKruger]

Welcome to my let's play thread for Civilization IV. My aim is primarily to have fun but also to provide an interesting method for the more experienced players to impart their vast wisdom upon us mere mortals :D

I'm not a Civ IV beginner, I know all the basics, however my two multiplayer partners always seem to out tech, score, war and culture me in our games and I haven't a clue how to compete. I'd also like to try out some more interesting map types (we almost exclusively play pangea and our latest attempt at a large continents map resulted in one huge continent with all but one civ on it and saladin on a tiny little island on his own). Finally I might be up for giving monarch difficulty a try, noble has long since ceased to be a challenge and prince didn't seem much harder (at least not on a standard sized Pangea) but I've heard monarch is a bigger step up. So without further ado onto the first choices:

Firstly which civ should I play? Or should I go for random? I am a bit finacial lover but perhaps I rely too much on it.

What type of map and what size? The one's which interest me most are archipelago and islands but lakes, inland sea and terra also look like they could be fun. As for size I'm not really sure what's best, I assume the type of map affects choice here.

What length of turn should I go with? I'm used to normal but am probably willing to give anything except fast a whirl.

What difficulty should I go for?

Finally, should I mess with any of the other tick box options?

Oh and I forgot to mention but this is vanilla Civ IV, no BtS or Warlords around.

[MyriadOfShades]

The Romans on an Earth scenario. Normal speed, Noble or Prince difficulty, your goal is to conquer as much as possible. You're allowed to buddy up AIs that aren't along your axis of conquest (it might work out to let Hattie have Africa, is what I'm saying), but if the game doesn't end as your troops march on Beijing, I'll be disappointed.

[JerekKruger]

The Romans on an Earth scenario. Normal speed, Noble or Prince difficulty, your goal is to conquer as much as possible. You're allowed to buddy up AIs that aren't along your axis of conquest (it might work out to let Hattie have Africa, is what I'm saying), but if the game doesn't end as your troops march on Beijing, I'll be disappointed.

I'm not a big fan of scenarios but this could work quite well on a terra map perhaps. I also think playing it on a slower speed would make it so that my praetorians remain useful for longer.

[vagrant_winds]

I haven't played IV (only III and II) so I don't know what all the options are.

I do however want to see a game where water plays a big part rather than the standard, easy, large continent fare.

[durecellrabbit]

I was going to ask for Zara Yaqob but you don't have him yet :(. There are quite a few new or changed leader so I don't remember what choice you have. So I'll just say don't go a financial or philosophical. For difficulty go monarch if you're prepared to play it otherwise prince. I don't play that high but I'd like for the leaders traits to play a big part in the strategy. Standard map, normal speed. I'd like one of the maps with a nice range of islands/continent mix like big and small, I think thats the right one.

[suedenim]

You mentioned Water, and my usual choice for that is Archipelago with Low water levels.

This makes for lots of islands, but with enough land mass to make them interesting, not just a bunch of 2-3 city little islands.

Map size per se isn't all that big a factor, IMO, as long as you stick close to the "default" number of opponents for that size. I sometimes make the number of opponents (default minus one), to perhaps give me a little more elbow room in the early game. But reduction of AI opponents means more barbarian territory, and in Civ IV this can actually be a hugely significant problem, if you're in a bad spot, as there are built-in brakes on fast expansion. Being overexpanded and surrounded by barbarians is not a good thing.

[bahamut_0]

Vanilla Civ and I'm in ^^ Can't seem to find the expansions in any stores nearby, but hopefully I'll get it sometime in the near future.

I would generally go for a custom game over a scenario, so yeah. Also, I am definitely a beginner, just gotta make that clear ;) I learn quick however.....well hopefully. I'm also not fussy at all about settings and whatnot, but I am interested in playing along alright :)

[Temrek]

Huge map with many continents, with the goal of taking control of your starting continent and then winning with a space race.

[MyriadOfShades]

I vote to aim for any victory but Space Race. Conquest is unlikely, though, and Domination is just as unlikely considering you could probably just vote yourself head of the UN with that much of the globe under your foot.

[Dulahan]

Epic or Marathon or whichever is the highest game speed. I lost one of my install discs so I don't know anymore. :(

[JerekKruger]

Epic or Marathon or whichever is the highest game speed. I lost one of my install discs so I don't know anymore. :(

Highest as in slowest or fastest?

[Dulahan]

As in slowest. As in... you'll spend the longest amount of time at every single tech level and things will take place over the most total turns.

[MyriadOfShades]

That would be marathon.

Like Epic, Marathon's city growth and buy-cost isn't slowed down enough to compensate for the fact that in a longer game Slavery, and especially Universal Suffrage, become much more powerful. A mid-game Marathon war will feature far more than the normal # of units.

[JerekKruger]

Okay decisions: I'm going to play on marathon because it sounds fun, my maps going to be a large archipelago with low water levels as that'll emphasise coastal cities and navies (why on earth the first ocean going ship requires astronomy I don't know :(), I'm thinking of playing China led by Huang (finacial, industrious, starts with mining and agriculture), I'm going to play it on Prince.

What I'll do is post up screens of three different starts and you can help me choose which one to stick with, then we can go from there. Oh and would anyone like me to link the save file so you can play alongside me and see what differences we get?

[JerekKruger]

Right, here are the three choices:

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk181/JerekKruger/Start1.jpg

This seems the worst of the lot with serious food issues, a lack of any interesting resources and no river to make up for it. On the other hand perhaps it has copper, iron or horses hidden to make it fairer (though knowing my luck it'll be made fairer by having aluminium, oil and uranium). It also lacks a water resource which, though not vital, bothers me as I get them so rarely on Pangea I'd like to have them here.

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk181/JerekKruger/Start2.jpg

Another somewhat food starved start but at least I have two resources and 8 river tiles in my fat cross. If I went with this start I'd possible choose to move the city onto the hill to the southwest although this would lose me a turn.

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk181/JerekKruger/Start3.jpg

Probably my favourite, two food resources in the cities fat cross, unfortunately the south looks somewhat barren as does the north. I'm also dubious about having a city rely so much on water tiles, the Colossus would probably be very useful here.

Anyway, you decide.

[Ceti]

I'd go with the second map but move one south to get a city on the straights.

[Ceti]

(why on earth the first ocean going ship requires astronomy I don't know :()

With archipelago's its fairly easy to move to other islands with low-tech ships. Circumnavigating the globe should be a priority.

Astronomy is very important when playing the Terra maps, so that you can be the first to settle the New World, which always has unique resources.

[JerekKruger]

Just noticed that my pictures went somewhat wrong (although it doesn't affect the actual information) so I'll fix those asap.

EDIT: Fixed.

[Marandus]

It's difficult to tell what would be the best choice out of those three.

1) has a decent food resource and looks promising for a quick expansion eastwards. Plenty of forests for chops should guarantee you a fairly fast start, too.

2) is slightly worrying due to the lack of production tiles around your capital, which would force you to whip or mills to rush infrastructure. You shouldn't move to the hill: only plains/hill tiles are worth moving to for the hammer bonus, and that's a grassland/hill.

3) looks fairly good, although you'd want to ensure you've adequate space to expand southwards (north looks like it'll develop into tundra). I see the corn, but I don't see the second resource?

I generally find that Colossus is overrated: in the early game, it'll net you +1 gold per water tile worked, and you probably want to prioritise working cottages before water.

[JerekKruger]

3) looks fairly good, although you'd want to ensure you've adequate space to expand southwards (north looks like it'll develop into tundra). I see the corn, but I don't see the second resource?

Sorry should have highlighted the resources, there is a clam (or is it a crab, I can never tell north one and east two of the settler's current position.

[suedenim]

I'd go with the second map but move one south to get a city on the straights.

Ditto, though that could be annoying if it turns out you're on a peninsula that ends, like, 2 squares into the northern Black.

Generally speaking, I don't find starting city position to be all that huge a deal in the ultimate scheme of things, as long as you're not surrounded by Jungle or something.

[Temrek]

Sea Going ships require astronomy due to navigation problems. If you cannot navigate by the stars and have no navigation tools (like a compass), you are lost if there is nothing but water in sight.

[JerekKruger]

Sea Going ships require astronomy due to navigation problems. If you cannot navigate by the stars and have no navigation tools (like a compass), you are lost if there is nothing but water in sight.

I realise that but I wonder why astronomy is such a late game tech. Also you can get compass much earlier than astronomy but the boat it allows doesn't carry settlers :(

Currently it's tied 2 all for starts 2 and 3.

[JELEINEN]

I like the second one and I agree about sticking it one south.

[Rainbow Trenchcoat]

3 looks interesting to me.

[vagrant_winds]

#3.

[ParrotSneeze]

3!

[Temrek]

The second start is what I would go for.

[Lemminkäinen]

A vote for number two.
I'd go with the second map but move one south to get a city on the straights.
But that loses fresh water. OK, on Prince it's not so vital, but still nice to have.

As for the game itself, on an Archipelago map building the Great Lighthouse and the Colossus with a financial civ nets an almost certain win. They are extremely powerful Wonders and if you wish to dominate the game they should be the two Wonders to pursue in the Ancient and Classical eras. Also, consider carefully before chopping forests as production is a scarce commodity on Archipelagos.

[Juriel]

I like #3 the best. Be like Japan!

[JerekKruger]

Okay start 3 wins 6 votes to 5 so I'll go with 3. Poor start one never even got a chance :(

Let's take another look at the start, this time with Beijing:

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk181/JerekKruger/Start.jpg

There's pigs to our south which might be a nice spot for another city (even if it's just a bridge city to a better location) and a hut to our north. My instinct is to explore south as, as Marandus said, north looks in danger of becoming Tundra. I'm inclined to leave the hut to be captured by the first expansion of Beijing rather than waste time sending my warrior after it.

We also have to decide on an initial build order (I generally go worker->worker->settler->warrior):

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk181/JerekKruger/Buildorder.jpg

and on a research plan (my usual target is bronze working):

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk181/JerekKruger/Research1.jpg

Once I've got that I'll play the first few (100 or so?) turns and post some more info.

Also, does anyone know how (if possible) to attach the save? I seem incapable of attaching anything larger than 1B.

EDIT: also if you can think of an interesting theme for my city names then feel free to suggest it, I can change Beijing's name.

[Ceti]

I always preferred to kick off with something other then a worker/settler, which blocks city growth (but maybe that's a reason why I'm not so great at this?).

For research Bronze Working makes lots of sense with the forest around the town and hills with the possibility of copper. Animal Husbandry should be next, what with the pigs. And it reveals horses IIRC.

[Ceti]

Also, does anyone know how (if possible) to attach the save? I seem incapable of attaching anything larger than 1B.


You need to be a RPG.net member IIRC.

[Marandus]

The optimal build order for speed, I think, is worker > worker > settler. This assumes you have plenty of forests to chop (and don't mind doing so), and don't mind being relatively reckless as to animals and barbarians. You have Agriculture already, so you don't need to worry about a second improvement until your city grows to 2 (which should be a while yet if you're using the above build order). But yeah, since you can't improve the clams for a while, I'd go Animal Husbandry.

[JerekKruger]

It's worth noting that due to my cities position it could be a while before I can even get to those clams so fishing isn't super important until I run out of land tiles to work. On the other getting a work boat out to explore the coast of my island and search for neaby islands to settle might not be a bad idea.

Other questions: should I try to found an early religion (no buddhism or hinduism of course as there's bound to be a mystic leader out there)? Are there any wonders I should be looking to get (I like china for their industrious trait as well as the ever popular finacial)? If I find someone early on should I mount a quick rush? Any other ideas?

[suedenim]

With this kind of civilization, I tend to ignore the early religious techs and aim for Code of Laws, not necessarily as fast as possible, but fairly briskly. Not a disaster if I don't get there first, but nice if I do.

[Ceti]

With this kind of civilization, I tend to ignore the early religious techs and aim for Code of Laws, not necessarily as fast as possible, but fairly briskly. Not a disaster if I don't get there first, but nice if I do.

QFT - Code of Laws is decent and gives a religion fairly early.

[suedenim]

QFT - Code of Laws is decent and gives a religion fairly early.

Plus, the tracks to and from it go through a lot of the money/science/democracy stuff that I tend to focus on.

[Vessiel]

Don't neglect fishing. Besides the chance to fish those clams, you want those fishing boats for exploration. Circumnavigating the globe should be one of your priorities in an archipelago map.

My early research is always geared towards revealing resources. That means Animal Husbandry and Bronze Working/Iron Working. I would chop the trees underneath the village soon (replace it with a mine) and maybe one of those by the river if it is a grasslands, but hold off on the others until you can build workshops.

I don't believe in making a worker first. Let your capital grow until there are no longer good lands to work. That won't take too long in this location, which is poor in prime land. I'd churn out another warrior or two to go exploring first.

[JELEINEN]

I usually wait until I have a population of three before building workers or settlers, otherwise you spend too much time working on them. I also second getting fishing ASAP.

[JerekKruger]

3310 BC

I decided to try something a little different to my usual worker->worker->settler: I noticed that if Beijing worked the corn whilst building a warrior, then switched over to a worker as soon as Beijing reached two population, my worker would finish at exactly the same time as bronze working.

Upon discovering Bronze Working I decided to convert to slavery; it has the same upkeep as tribalism and I've found it to be very useful in the past. This caused two turns of anarchy so there was no reason for my worker to start chopping trees, instead I had him build a farm on corn. I also switched Beijing back to building the warrior from earlier with the intention of using him to explore the north of my island.

Meanwhile my lone warrior embarked upon an epic journey of exploration (and lion killing). It turns out that the island is a lot larger than I had expected and contains some rather odd features:

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk181/JerekKruger/World3310.jpg

Four gems in once place! Six sugar in a line! What's wrong with this island :eek: (on a side note I've noticed that archipelago's tend to put lots of a single resource on each island, presumable this is to encourage the island's owner to trade his surplas in exchange for the goodies other islands have to offer). My warrior also met a Spanish warrior so it looks like Isabella is somewhere on the island too, although I haven't found her city.

The copper to the south seems the obvious choice for my second city, especially with the nearby wheat to feed it. I'd very much like to make use of the four gems (that's four self feeding tiles each producing 7 commerce!) but feeding a city there might prove difficuly, we'll see.

Once the anarchy finished I started researching Fishing as the ability to explore using work boats will be very useful. My original warrior continued his exploration and once built, my new warrior headed north to see what wonders that part of the island still held.

Now a quick question, what to do with my forests?

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk181/JerekKruger/Working.jpg

As you can see, Beijing has a fair number of forests in it's cultural borders. These contribute 3 health to the city which is quite a lot. However I can't build any improvements in them (at least not until replaceable parts which is a fair way off) and the extra production gained from cutting them down gives me a big boost at this stage in the game. Should I (i) cut them all down and find another way to keep Beijing healthy or (ii) cut down some (most obviously the forest on the hill) and keep some others?

My current long(ish) term research plan is something along the lines of: finish Fishing -> The Wheel -> Pottery -> Writing -> Mathematics -> Currency -> Code of Laws. I'll intersperse Hunting, Archery, Sailing and Masonry (I want the Great Lighthouse) amongst the above. Other techs I want to get relatively early on are Iron Working, Metal Casting (I also want the Colossus) and Monarchy (I tend to rely on hereditary rule early on for happiness).

[durecellrabbit]

I'd leave two trees and crop the rest but only cut them if you have something worthwhile. Wonders maybe. I'd chop the ones on grass first and cottage them. You might have trouble putting that workboat on the clams :p.

[JerekKruger]

I'd leave two trees and crop the rest but only cut them if you have something worthwhile. Wonders maybe. I'd chop the ones on grass first and cottage them. You might have trouble putting that workboat on the clams :p.

Yeah I'd noticed that about the clams, I'll be able to get there eventually but it ain't gonna be quick.