[4e] Masterwork armour?

[Baz King]

Maybe I'm just going rule-blind after a lot of reading but...
...How does it work? How much does it cost?
I'm flicking back and forth and I just can't see how much Godplate costs or what it does.
Can anyone put me out of my misery?

[themocaw]

Maybe I'm just going rule-blind after a lot of reading but...
...How does it work? How much does it cost?
I'm flicking back and forth and I just can't see how much Godplate costs or what it does.
Can anyone put me out of my misery?

Masterwork armor isn't quite like prior versions of masterwork: instead of being armor that just provides a bonus, it's armor that's better than normal magic armor of that same enhancement value. It's basically meant to give an advantage to finding powerful armor through adventuring and such rather than making your own. For instance: Godplate. Normal armor enhanced up to +6 only provides the +6 bonus. However, Godplate Armor crafted by Moradin himself and such is even better than normal +6 armor and gives, like, a +2 AC bonus on top of that for a total of +8. I could be wrong, I don't have my books in front of me.

The way I plan to use it: normal magic items can be bought and sold and enchanted and such, but masterwork items require quests and roleplaying.

[The Eye]

Masterwork armors are discussed on page 212. They are all magical armors, created with arcane and esoteric methods. As far as I remember, this is a different definition of Masterwork than in 3rd edition.

Godplate is armor with a +14 AC bonus. Masterwork Godplate is magical Godplate. Because the Minimum Enhancement bonus allowed for Masterwork Godplate is +6, all magical (i.e. Masterwork) Godplate is +6 Godplate*. There is no +5 Godplate. And according to page 212, this is accounted for in the cost for +6 armor.


*Yes, this means that you either have +14 AC or +20 AC, and there isn't room between it for Godplate. There is a "D&D math" reason for this, but I can't remember what it is.

[Chocobo]

The rules are very unclear, but what I think it means is this. Plate armor comes in these types ( I think the middle one is warplate... if I'm wrong, then I hope it's still clear what I mean):

Plate Armor (AC +8)
Plate Armor +1 (AC +9)
Plate Armor +2 (AC +10)
Plate Armor +3 (AC +11)
Warplate Armor +4 (AC +15)
Warplate Armor +5 (AC +16)
Godplate Armor +6 (AC +20)

There isn't any such thing as Plate Armor +6. If it is +6 then it is Godplate instead.

[wingedcoyote]

I'm pretty sure the reason is the jump between Heroic and Paragon tiers, and from Paragon to Epic. The competition gets tougher, and you need sturdier armor to keep up. :)

The interaction between masterwork armor and PC magic item creation is not covered by the rules. Past a certain point enchanted armor must be masterwork, so if you want enchantment to stay useful there needs to be an answer. The options right now, as far as I can tell, are to rule that armor automatically becomes masterwork when enchanted or to improvise a way for the PCs to obtain the materials necessary to craft masterwork.

[themocaw]

The rules are very unclear, but what I think it means is this. Plate armor comes in these types ( I think the middle one is warplate... if I'm wrong, then I hope it's still clear what I mean):

Plate Armor (AC +8)
Plate Armor +1 (AC +9)
Plate Armor +2 (AC +10)
Plate Armor +3 (AC +11)
Warplate Armor +4 (AC +15)
Warplate Armor +5 (AC +16)
Godplate Armor +6 (AC +20)

There isn't any such thing as Plate Armor +6. If it is +6 then it is Godplate instead.

Can you point to the rule that says this? I thought that Godplate was simply better Plate Armor +6.

[Skywalker]

Can you point to the rule that says this? I thought that Godplate was simply better Plate Armor +6.

I am pretty sure Chocobo's analysis is incorrect, though I don't have the book in front of me. You and The Eye seem to have it right.

[Seroster]

I would have taken it to mean that Godplate is, at minimum, +20 to AC. It has a +14 base and has a minimum enhancement bonus of +6. The blurb on minimum doesn't say "if it's enchanted, it must have this enhancement bonus." It says "Masterwork armor requires a minimum enhancement bonus, as shown in this entry." There is no such thing as non-masterwork Godplate. Godplate is a form of masterwork armour.

If these armours were available unenchanted then basic Feyleather ought to be available pretty early on, because it only has a +3. I think it ought to appear after regular Leather +4, which is set to level 16, and the book says that masterwork armours only appear at the highest levels (16th and above).

[OldKentuckyShark]

*Yes, this means that you either have +14 AC or +20 AC, and there isn't room between it for Godplate. There is a "D&D math" reason for this, but I can't remember what it is.

To keep up with expanding stat lines.

At first level, the ranger has an 18 Dex and wears Hide for an AC of 17, while the dwarf wears Plate for an automatic AC of 18. But at 30th level the Ranger has a 26 Dex, which means that in mundane Hide he'd have an AC of 21*. This makes the Dwarf very sad.

But if the Ranger wears Elderhide and the dwarf wears Godplate, then the ranger has an AC of 23 and the Dwarf has an AC of 24, and the circle of life is complete.

Hakuna Matata.

*Enhancement bonuses increase at a static rate, so ignore them.

[Chocobo]

Can you point to the rule that says this? I thought that Godplate was simply better Plate Armor +6.

Nope I sure can't, like I said the rules are very unclear. It's pure guessing, just based on the fact (like OldKentuckyShark said) that the heavy armor classes need something to help them keep up with the increasing Dex/Int of the light armor classes.

[Sablewyvern]

Technically, the rules do not prevent the appearance of mundane plate +4 or higher. However, given that that the costs of +6 godplate and +6 mundane plate are identical, there is no reason to ever produce the latter.

The reason for the inclusion of masterworked armours seems, in part, to allow heavy armour to keep pace with light armour. The latter stacks with increasing ability bonuses, while the former does not. Heavy armours make up for this by gaining masterwork bonuses at a faster rate.

If you allow high-enchantment, mundane armour in the group, PCs wearing it will be well below the expected AC curve, and you'll need to take this into account when preparing encounters.

It's also worth noting that, as written, the creation of masterwork armour must, by necessity, be part of the process of actually enchanting the armour -- you don't need to find some godplate before enchanting it. Why is this? Because unenchanted godplate simply doesn't exist in the first place, ergo, it must be made as part of the enchanting process.

[domino]

All +4 and up armor should be masterwork. All +4 and +5 plate armor should be warplate, and all +6 armor should be godplate. The potential exists to create armors of a high enough enhancement bonus without making them masterwork, but it's an inherent disadvantage. You'd think anyone putting enough effort into armor to make it +6 would also make it godplate. Likewise with the other masterwork armors.

This should be in the FAQ soon.

[Caduceus]

Basically it just means that armor of a certain enhancement bonus also gives a higher inherent AC bonus.

[Baz King]

All +4 and up armor should be masterwork. All +4 and +5 plate armor should be warplate, and all +6 armor should be godplate. The potential exists to create armors of a high enough enhancement bonus without making them masterwork, but it's an inherent disadvantage. You'd think anyone putting enough effort into armor to make it +6 would also make it godplate. Likewise with the other masterwork armors.

This should be in the FAQ soon.

Thanks for all the responses so far. Have to admit I'm still confused though!

Let's see if I can get a simple answer to a simple question:

How much does it cost to buy Feyweave?

[Juriel]

How much does it cost to buy Feyweave?
The amount it costs to make a +4 or +5 armor. ;)

[Seroster]

My opinion appears to be wrong, but if they intended to convey that all +4 and higher armour to be masterwork, they went about it all wrong.

Would it not be possible at least for PCs who can enchant to create non-masterwork +4 armour if they had the stuff?

[Sablewyvern]

My opinion appears to be wrong, but if they intended to convey that all +4 and higher armour to be masterwork, they went about it all wrong.

Would it not be possible at least for PCs who can enchant to create non-masterwork +4 armour if they had the stuff?

According to the recently released FAQ, no. In any event, why would they want to when they can make the masterwork version with no additional effort or expense?

Edit: Found the link -- http://wizards.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wizards.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1396&p_created=1212604387&p_sid=Q9lFm*5j&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ 9MSwxJnBfcHJvZHM9MCZwX2NhdHM9JnBfcHY9JnBfY3Y9JnBfc2VhcmNoX3R 5cGU9YW5zd2Vycy5zZWFyY2hfbmwmcF9wYWdlPTEmcF9zZWFyY2hfdGV4dD1 waGI*&p_li=&p_topview=1

And Edit: BTW, I agree that they did a very, very poor job of explaining how masterworked armour works.

[Seroster]

According to the recently released FAQ, no. In any event, why would they want to when they can make the masterwork version with no additional effort or expense?

I presumed that masterwork armour which actually be particularly rare and special, and not generally available. I'd better hunt up that FAQ. :)

[Sablewyvern]

I presumed that masterwork armour which actually be particularly rare and special, and not generally available.

You'd think so, wouldn't you, what with the way it's explained? :)

However:

It's also worth noting that, as written, the creation of masterwork armour must, by necessity, be part of the process of actually enchanting the armour -- you don't need to find some godplate before enchanting it. Why is this? Because unenchanted godplate simply doesn't exist in the first place, ergo, it must be made as part of the enchanting process.

[riotgearepsilon]

All +4 and up armor should be masterwork. All +4 and +5 plate armor should be warplate, and all +6 armor should be godplate. The potential exists to create armors of a high enough enhancement bonus without making them masterwork, but it's an inherent disadvantage. You'd think anyone putting enough effort into armor to make it +6 would also make it godplate. Likewise with the other masterwork armors.

This should be in the FAQ soon.

Are you speaking in a kinda-sorta-but-not-really-for-legal-reasons official capacity here?

[themocaw]

Regardless of RAW, I'm going to say that you can't just enchant any old suit of plate and turn it into godplate: you'll need to start with a special suit of armor specially made after a long quest and/or roleplaying. Masterwork armor should be special, and I'll only be giving it out if the players spend effort roleplaying its creation and/or acquisition.

[wingedcoyote]

Regardless of RAW, I'm going to say that you can't just enchant any old suit of plate and turn it into godplate: you'll need to start with a special suit of armor specially made after a long quest and/or roleplaying. Masterwork armor should be special, and I'll only be giving it out if the players spend effort roleplaying its creation and/or acquisition.

Some kind of story requirement is a good idea IMO, but it shouldn't be too hard to complete, since masterwork armor is required by the challenge system. If your players end up without it and get stuck with Heroic armor in the Paragon tier or Paragon armor in Epic, they're going to get chewed up like cat food.

[hyphz]

I asked this very question to Wizards CS and they replied to confirm that enchanting a regular suit of plate to +6 does indeed turn it into Godplate.

However, the CS agent originally claimed it didn't, and then turned about when I pointed out that this didn't seem to gel with the statement in the FAQ.

Yes, this means that the "in-character" descriptions of the armor types are nonsense.

[medivh]

Yes, this means that the "in-character" descriptions of the armor types are nonsense.

Easily fixed. Behold:

P. 212:

"The cost of masterwork armor is included in the cost of magic armor."
"Feyweave armor is woven with techniques perfected by the eladrin."

P. 228:

lvl11 - Magic +3 - 9000 gp - any
lvl 16 - Magic +4 - 45000 gp - any

So the difference between a set of +3 clothing and a set of +4 Fey-woven clothing is 36000 gp, more than enough to pay some scrub to take it apart thread by thread and re-weave it through a technique perfected by the eladrin.

Ingame justification for "in-character" descriptions, describing all armors:

Cloth to Feyweave: Taken apart and re-woven by an Eladrin
Feyweave to Starweave: Taken apart and re-woven by an astral traveller.

Leather to Feyleather: Handed to an elf who cures it and hands it back
Feyleather to Starleather: Handed to astral traveller who takes it to the astral plane and back.

Hide to Darkhide: Given to Tiefling who treats it with fire
Darkhide to Elderhide: Thrown into volcano and picked back up.

Chainmail to Forgemail: Melted down, trace minerals added, reforged.
Forgemail to Spiritmail: Handed to astral traveller etc.

Scale armor to Wyrmscale: Handed to Dragonborn who bends the scales slightly differently, handed back.
Wyrmscale to Elderscale: Thrown into volcano, picked up.

Plate armor to Warplate: Melted down, remade by dwarf with access to real pattern.
Warplate to Godplate: Melted down again, remade by dwarf with access to real pattern and Moradins favor.

[Mazelmavin]

Here is a possible solution:

Masterwork armor just doesn't offer anything more unless it is enchanted at the listed levels (4-5, 6). "The whole is better than the sum of it's parts".

You still need a way to aquire Masterwork armor, though. I suggest one of three options:

1. Masterwork armor sells for 9000gp (25,000gp).
2. Must be physically quest for and/or awarded/found (and counts as 9k/25k gp treasure).
3. Disenchanters have the option of leaving the Masterwork Armor entact for re-enchantment.