[D&D3.5] Eberron Action Point feats

[DigitalMage]

I am scanning through the Eberron Campaign Setting again and am once again being astounded by how useless some of the Action Point feats are.

The actual effect of the feat is often good, however the need to spend Action Points to power the feat mean the feat will get use only a few times between levelling up.

For example Action Surge allows an extra Standard or Move action for one round, but it costs 2 AP to use! At 3rd level this means at most 3 uses between levelling up.

Are such feats really so useful that they deserve the AP cost? It seems these sorts of feats will only become really useful at high levels, e.g. 10th+ when you get 10 Action Points or more.

If only AP refreshed every adventure rather than every level - some people like a slower progress (and don't like to houserule :D).

So, am I missing something? Is the AP cost of such feats really deserved?

[Stalkre]

For example Action Surge allows an extra Standard or Move action for one round, but it costs 2 AP to use! At 3rd level this means at most 3 uses between levelling up.

Are such feats really so useful that they deserve the AP cost? It seems these sorts of feats will only become really useful at high levels, e.g. 10th+ when you get 10 Action Points or more.

I always thought that paying a feat and paying action points was too much, especially for those marginally-useful use a class feature an extra time and so on. These feats are only really worth if if you sort of specialize in them - take the +3AP/level feat, take the 1d8 instead of 1d6 feat, and so on.

If only AP refreshed every adventure rather than every level - some people like a slower progress (and don't like to houserule :D).
Mind you, slower progress is a house rule on its own. The number of APs per level is appropriate the expected number of encounters per level (13.3 or so) so if you're having more encounters, you should definitely change the numbers of APs as well.

[macd21]

I am scanning through the Eberron Campaign Setting again and am once again being astounded by how useless some of the Action Point feats are.

The actual effect of the feat is often good, however the need to spend Action Points to power the feat mean the feat will get use only a few times between levelling up.

For example Action Surge allows an extra Standard or Move action for one round, but it costs 2 AP to use! At 3rd level this means at most 3 uses between levelling up.

Are such feats really so useful that they deserve the AP cost? It seems these sorts of feats will only become really useful at high levels, e.g. 10th+ when you get 10 Action Points or more.

If only AP refreshed every adventure rather than every level - some people like a slower progress (and don't like to houserule :D).

So, am I missing something? Is the AP cost of such feats really deserved?


Yes, pretty much, though for some characters more than others. You need to look at the Eberron Prestige classes, many of which grant extra action points. As a result, PCs can find themselves having more than they really need, so feats that give them more opportunities to spend them are good. As for Action Surge, yes, that is worth it, even if you only get to do it a few times per level.

[DigitalMage]

These feats are only really worth if if you sort of specialize in them - take the +3AP/level feat,
yes, I figure the Heroic Spirit feat giving you 3 extra AP per level might make some AP feats more desirable, also Raging Luck which provides an extra AP each time you rage would make these things very useful as you can rage more than once a day at 4th level+.

So I wonder, is it the combinations that make these feats more desirable?

Mind you, slower progress is a house rule on its own. The number of APs per level is appropriate the expected number of encounters per level (13.3 or so) so if you're having more encounters, you should definitely change the numbers of APs as well.
I must admit I never bothered learning all that CR and EL stuff and decided to just have characters level up every X number of scenarios. Also I was thinking about Pathfinder with its 3 different speeds of advancement.

[Stalkre]

So I wonder, is it the combinations that make these feats more desirable?
Yes, I definitely think there's a synergy to these feats. However, I also think for some of these feats the developers erred on the side of caution, and it wouldn't hurt to allow those exotic uses to all characters.

I must admit I never bothered learning all that CR and EL stuff and decided to just have characters level up every X number of scenarios. Also I was thinking about Pathfinder with its 3 different speeds of advancement.
Well, figure that you're supposed to level every 4 sessions, so if you're taking longer, you might be better off letting the players have a quarter of their per-level amount each session. We did it in one campaign, mostly to get rid of the bookkeeping.

[DigitalMage]

Well, figure that you're supposed to level every 4 sessions, so if you're taking longer, you might be better off letting the players have a quarter of their per-level amount each session. We did it in one campaign, mostly to get rid of the bookkeeping.
I am writing con scenarios at the moment with a set of continuing characters. I plan to level them up every 3 scenarios (starting at 3rd level). They currently have 6 AP which I limit to 2 per scenario like you suggested - but that meant that when creating characters I dismissed the feats like Action Surge as they would only be used at most once a game, and not at all if the player spend an Action Point in any other fashion.

[Ferrus Animus]

The feats depend on a lot of things.

At higher levels they become a lot more useful.

An 18th level Char has 14 AP and using them all for Action Surge nets 7 extra standard actions. For a decent mage that's a lot of extra firepower if necessary.
The ability to hurl an extra SoD can change the entire battle.

At lower levels they're often not quite as useful. (Though I have a build somewhere that can spend them willy nilly for brutal effects after a few levels).

[dimensional]

From Experience - I'd say That they are on the weak side, except for action surge.
Mainly cause Players Horde their AP's and forget to use them.

I can see that a Build that Focused on AP's and using them could get a tad crazy though.

Action Surge is crazy Good. 2 Ap to get an extra action can turn the tide of a battle. Probably best if taken at lvl6+ though.

Ironically Heroic Spirit, While useful, Falls away in utility rapidly at lvl 8+ as you natual no. of actions points het quite high, unless you have extra feats to use them up. It is however an automatially better feat than most of the extra (Class feature) feats as you can sub AP's for Uses of most class features.

In general I found My character almost always ended His Level with AP's left over which felt like a waste.

If You wanted to boost them Have every 2 AP feats Give an extra AP the same way Shifter feats give extra shifts.

Jeremy