Incredibly, massively naive question...

[Dodger]

Is D&D 4e the first "significant/major/mainstream" roleplaying game to be released as a PDF download whilst it was still new/current?

[filigree]

No.

[sigma7]

Is D&D 4e the first "significant/major/mainstream" roleplaying game to be released as a PDF download whilst it was still new/current?

Nope. Others can provide specifics that I can't, but I think White Wolf's (new) World of Darkness stuff comes out on PDF right around when the dead-tree version hits the shelves.

[Springaldjack]

Nope. Others can provide specifics that I can't, but I think White Wolf's (new) World of Darkness stuff comes out on PDF right around when the dead-tree version hits the shelves.

Is D&D 4e the first "significant/major/mainstream" roleplaying game to be released as a PDF download whilst it was still new/current?

No, no matter how you split mainstream[1] since I'm pretty sure that 3.5, while not made a PDF immediately was made a PDF while "current."

[1]With 60% of the Market there's a good argument that only D&D is major. Remember D&D is niche, non-D&D RPG is niche of a niche, non-D&D non WW[2] is niche of a niche of a niche.

[2]Were up to 80% of the tiny market of Tabletop RPGs here.

[sigma7]

[1]With 60% of the Market there's a good argument that only D&D is major. Remember D&D is niche, non-D&D RPG is niche of a niche, non-D&D non WW[2] is niche of a niche of a niche.

My definition of "mainstream" is, roughly, "there's a more-than-reasonable chance I can go to any random Barnes & Noble or Borders and find at least some of the company's products". By that metric, WW is mainstream. Sure, it might not be what the non-gaming public immediately thinks of when confronted with the term "role-playing game" but in terms of widespread availability, I'd say it's pretty mainstream.

[Dodger]

Nope. [...] White Wolf's (new) World of Darkness stuff comes out on PDF right around when the dead-tree version hits the shelves.Mmmm. Fair enough. My peripatetic attention to RPGs over the past ten years or so evidently leaves me susceptible to going "Wow! This is SO cool!" when I check out the industry every few years and discover that something I thought would never happen has, in fact, come to pass.

[mhacdebhandia]

No, no matter how you split mainstream[1] since I'm pretty sure that 3.5, while not made a PDF immediately was made a PDF while "current."
You could not buy the core rules for Third Edition in PDF. Only supplements.

[Phasma Felis]

Is D&D 4e the first "significant/major/mainstream" roleplaying game to be released as a PDF download whilst it was still new/current?
Depends on whether you define "released as a PDF download" to include "with the publisher's knowledge and/or consent." :)

[Ferrus Animus]

You could not buy the core rules for Third Edition in PDF. Only supplements.

The core rules were and are available for free....

[DigitalMage]

The core rules were and are available for free....
Legally? No they aren't (I have a thread on the D&D forums Future Releases, requesting that they release 3.5 PHB, DMG and MM in PDF format).

Of course, if you're talking illegally, then you may well be right - but for those of us who don't want to use pirate PDFs then that is not much comfort.

[smug]

Legally? No they aren't (I have a thread on the D&D forums Future Releases, requesting that they release 3.5 PHB, DMG and MM in PDF format).

Of course, if you're talking illegally, then you may well be right - but for those of us who don't want to use pirate PDFs then that is not much comfort.

He means the SRD, I expect.

I would also love to see legal versions of the 3.5 pdfs. I hope to hell they release them (although I fear that they won't).

Rolemaster is available on pdf as well as hard copy, as is HARP, for some years now. Not sure whether you chaps consider that 'mainstream', but for me it is.

[mhacdebhandia]

The core rules were and are available for free....
The System Reference Document is not and never was "the core rules".

(95% of them, sure.)

Nothing like a PDF version of the actual, printed core rules of Third Edition D&D was ever made available legally.

[Dodger]

I would broadly/generally agree with sigma7's definition of "mainstream". Hence, WoD counts as mainstream and filigree is, technically, correct.

And when I said "released as a PDF download", I was referring to the publishers selling a PDF, as opposed to pirates distributing it illegally.

[Deductive Comma]

My definition of "mainstream" is, roughly, "there's a more-than-reasonable chance I can go to any random Barnes & Noble or Borders and find at least some of the company's products". By that metric, WW is mainstream. Sure, it might not be what the non-gaming public immediately thinks of when confronted with the term "role-playing game" but in terms of widespread availability, I'd say it's pretty mainstream.

I'm curious, since I don't shop for RPGs at big bookstores, what RPGs are mainstream by this definition?

[Springaldjack]

I'm curious, since I don't shop for RPGs at big bookstores, what RPGs are mainstream by this definition?

D&D, Some random assortment of WW, occasionally Mongoose or Green Ronin products, Dark Hersey, once upon a time D6 Star Wars.

[Springaldjack]

Depends on whether you define "released as a PDF download" to include "with the publisher's knowledge and/or consent." :)

Again, if we count White Wolf, which is literally to say, if anything other than D&D counts, then no it doesn't.

WW has for sometime made all of their current releases, and most of their back catalog available for sale in PDF.

[Skywalker]

I'm curious, since I don't shop for RPGs at big bookstores, what RPGs are mainstream by this definition?

I would say the list currently includes D&D, Star Wars Saga, Battlestar Galatica RPG, Dark Heresy, Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, Conan RPG, Mutants and Masterminds and White Wolf's lines.

[Tim Gray]

Many, if not most, publishers now regard PDF as a legitimate distribution channel in parallel with print. Try checking out www.drivethrurpg.com and www.rpgnow.com for examples.

[Kitanin]

I would say the list currently includes D&D, Star Wars Saga, Battlestar Galatica RPG, Dark Heresy, Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, Conan RPG, Mutants and Masterminds and White Wolf's lines.

Having seen GURPS books in mainstream bookstores, I'll chip in and mention that all the GURPS 4th edition books are available in PDF form at their online store, http://e23.sjgames.com/.

[TonyTempest]

Legally? No they aren't (I have a thread on the D&D forums Future Releases, requesting that they release 3.5 PHB, DMG and MM in PDF format).

Of course, if you're talking illegally, then you may well be right - but for those of us who don't want to use pirate PDFs then that is not much comfort.

I think the point is that the SRD is available for free, which were the rules for 3.0. Many sites online have those rules in hypertext form with links and everything. This is not exactly a pdf of the actual book, however, of course.

david

[Skywalker]

Having seen GURPS books in mainstream bookstores, I'll chip in and mention that all the GURPS 4th edition books are available in PDF form at their online store, http://e23.sjgames.com/.

I agree that at this time GURPS is on the list.