Next Week's Zero Punctuation

[Matt David T.]

Too big thread is shutdown! Discuss ZP here!

I personally think all threads of this nature should be started by a Matt who works in video games of one sort or another.

Last post of old thread:
Less useful, sure. Entertaining? Well, I guess it depends on whether you like his style or not. Still, I wish more people were willing to look at reviewers like you did and just say "this person's tastes don't mesh with mine, c'est la vie". Personally, I'm about 75% or so in favor of Yahtzee's reviews meshing with my own tastes, but even that other quarter I still enjoy for the wacky rants.

Old thread link:
http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=367694

[bubbles]

Posting so I can find it.

[Shadetree]

In the linked interview Yahtzee makes the distinction between a reviewer and a critic and firmly puts himself in the critic role. As long as he continues to make valid points about why a game was fun or unfun for him I'll continue to listen.

[Stephenls]

I like his distinction between reviewer and critic, but it vexes me because by that definition I'm both or neither.

[Matt David T.]

I like his distinction between reviewer and critic, but it vexes me because by that definition I'm both or neither.

Well, what are you then?

[Krzyzewski Man]

Well, what are you then?

He's... an alcoholic.

[Caseyg]

Is it just me or does Yahtzee look like Gordon Freeman except without the hazard suit?

:confused:

[Maninblue]

Is it just me or does Yahtzee look like Gordon Freeman except without the hazard suit?
Nonsense! Yahtzee has a sweet hat, Gordon Freeman does not. ;)

But given that my first skim read put that comment as Is it just me or does Yahtzee love Gordon Freeman except without the hazard suit?my mind is not quite recovered enough for a sensible reply.
Ouch.

[David J Prokopetz]

In the linked interview Yahtzee makes the distinction between a reviewer and a critic and firmly puts himself in the critic role. As long as he continues to make valid points about why a game was fun or unfun for him I'll continue to listen.I generally like his style, but I tend to take anything he says about a game with a grain of salt, as he doesn't hesitate to blow things wildly out of proportion if he thinks it would make for a more entertaining rant. I can think of a couple of occasions where there's some irksome but minor element that shows up in a game maybe once or twice, but if you went by his comments you'd think it was omnipresent throughout the entire game.

[Brawndo]

As much as I'm over the trend of "snarkily negative reviews as entertainment" that the Internet keeps vomiting all over itself, Yahtzee gets a pass from me because he does it so very, very well.

I don't take his critiques into account when I'm deciding whether to buy a game, but they do make me laugh.

[Tardigrade]

This week: Sonic Unleashed (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/472-Sonic-Unleashed).

[Stryke]

This week he critiques Sonic Unleashed. (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/472-Sonic-Unleashed)

To say he's not keen would be an understatement. Poor Sonic, he was so cool when I was 8...

Edit: Damn you Tarigrade! Beaten by a minute.

[Shadetree]

This week: Sonic Unleashed (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/472-Sonic-Unleashed).

ouch I think my headphones caught on fire.

[Tardigrade]

This week he critiques Sonic Unleashed. (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/472-Sonic-Unleashed)

To say he's not keen would be an understatement. Poor Sonic, he was so cool when I was 8...

Edit: Damn you Tarigrade! Beaten by a minute.

Heh. This is why I posted before watching!

Wow. Those of you who've been disappointed that it's been a while since he really went to town on a game: watch this. Short version: he expected the game to be bad, and he was still surprised. Not pleasantly.

I'm not sure about the new show Yahtzee's doing (apart from the weirdness of seeing that voice coming out of a face with a mouth). It'll depend on whether the show is "three guys talk about and show games" or "Yahtzee and two guys you've never heard of talk about and show games".

[Voidnaut]

It's good to know I'm not the only person that wasted money on this game, though in my defence I only rented it. I was, indeed, blinded by nostalgia, and by the suggestion on the box that they had ditched all the other goddamn animals for some honest running around. Good lord, does Unleashed suck.

-Voidnaut

[Karen]

The problem with Sonic games is that apologists have always been ready to offer tepid excuses for why each game sucks--supporting cast, non-running levels, break in tone--which Sonic Team can then 'fix' for the next game by making it about Shadow with uzis or Hog-Wolf Sonic or whatever the fuck.

But those things were never the underlying problem. The problem has always been that Sonic games for the last ten years have sucked, and these tiny alterations aren't going to change that. Even if you went back in time and pulled out all the Tails and Knuckles sections and added more running really fast, it wouldn't really change the fact that they were terrible games; the fans won't admit it, and Sonic Team unfortunately does listen to the fans.

Of course, I never much liked Sonic so it's all hilarious to me. I get to watch from my ivory tower built brick-by-brick of progressively more blindingly awesome Mario games.

[Mostlyjoe]

Lord...that man's bile is flamable.

[Killfalcon]

Until I watched that review, I was ready to write off the whole week as a lost cause. Now, I am happy with my life.

[Wizdoc]

Really fun one this time. Guess he had been a bit soft and forgiving previous weeks so he decided to make up for it.

By the way, did you check out the pilot of Yathzee's (& co.) TV show? The link was after the review. It's really bizarre to connect a face to the voice for an extended period of time.

[Pandora Caitiff]

By the way, did you check out the pilot of Yathzee's (& co.) TV show? The link was after the review. It's really bizarre to connect a face to the voice for an extended period of time.

My connection keeps timing out. I guess the world and his mum are all trying to watch it too.

[LordAsteroth]

Game Damage so far doesn't seem to be as enjoyable to me as Zero Punctuation. I suspect that it's harder for Yahtzee to get the Ranty McRantpants rolling when he has to stop to let someone else talk, and his two buddies don't seem as entertaining.

[Irlymvhir]

I don't know if I want to see Yatzee's face. It just might ruin my feelings of how AWESOME he is if I find out he looks all weird or something.

-P.C.

[David J Prokopetz]

I don't know if I want to see Yatzee's face. It just might ruin my feelings of how AWESOME he is if I find out he looks all weird or something.He's actually appeared in Zero Punctuation before. He really does look like Gordon Freeman in a hat.

[Irlymvhir]

He's actually appeared in Zero Punctuation before. He really does look like Gordon Freeman in a hat.

Well, I've watched a bit of the new TV show, and I am left confused. Yahtzee sounds sexy, angry, and sarcastic. The man I see before me...does not fill me with these ideas and feelings. I'll give it time, however. ;)

-P.C.

[Stantz]

This week he critiques Sonic Unleashed. (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/472-Sonic-Unleashed)

To say he's not keen would be an understatement. Poor Sonic, he was so cool when I was 8...Wow. That's the second most negative review of Sonic Unleashed that I've ever seen.

[Axiomatic]

I like RL Yahtzee. I can't stand the guy sitting in the middle of the couch. He's horrible.

[JohanKoch]

Game Damage so far doesn't seem to be as enjoyable to me as Zero Punctuation. I suspect that it's harder for Yahtzee to get the Ranty McRantpants rolling when he has to stop to let someone else talk, and his two buddies don't seem as entertaining.

Wow, that was pretty awful. It smacks of three drunk friends, sitting around thinking they are a lot funnier and cleverer that they really are, saying "gee, why don't we make a TV program since we are so awesome", and embarrassing themselves by actually going through with it.

Shame, cause the idea of the show is fine. And when they get down to actually reviewing stuff, it's not half bad. It's just all the so-called humour that makes this stink like a shit sandwich.

Edit: And yeah, the guy in the middle needs go back to flipping burgers.

[Gogmagog]

How was the Sonic RPG made by Bioware?

[ru]

re the TV show;

Yhatzee in a bit of a bind there, because he clearly doesn't want it to be all about him, but he's that much more talented than the other two that if he doesn't hold himself back he overshadows them effortlessly. and if he does hold himself back, then it's just a sea of mediocrity.

[Blue Boy]

Good GOD that was some quality rage.

As for the TV show.. if I'm not mistaken, the other two lads on the show are from Australian Gamer, a podcast that Yahtzee occasionally links to, and shows up in. And those podcasts are hilarious, because when Yahtzee is around, they invariably end up drunk, and ranting for half an hour about things barely connected to games. Yahtzee links to them from his main site now and again.

[Wields-Rulebook-Heavily]

How was the Sonic RPG made by Bioware?

Apparently pretty good. No first-hand experience here, mind, but I know people who like it.

But c'mon, Yahtzee, geez. A Sonic game? Taking shots at anything shat out by Sonic Team these days is like throwing a nuclear bomb at a petri dish. :p

[Darting Flea]

Gotta say I didn't enjoy Game Damage that much. I actually found Yahtzee rather grating (which is odd consider I almost always enjoy Zero Punctuation) and the other two didn't have enough in the way of charisma to balance him out.

[Vargen]

Game Damage has potential, but it definitely didn't hold my attention for the whole thing.

I think the couch might be part of the problem. Too much with the slouching, not that I'd be any better. Now I know why talk show hosts use a desk. Maybe if they sat around a table?

The Duke Nukem Forever design team sessions were way funnier than they had any right to be.

[Firelight]

The problem I had with Game Damage is that they seemed to have just turned on the camera without any kind of script. Which is fine on a Podcast when you can edit the brilliant bits together without the video jumping around, but here it came off as lazy.

Also, Yahtzee... I love your work man, but all your chemistry is in your voice. On film you just look glowery. I was expecting him to whip out a crowbar and lunge at the other two at any moment.

[Melle]

I'm surprised Yahtzee missed taking a few shots at the other half of the target audience for this game, though he did sort of hint in that direction in the end credits.

Yes, only half of the customer base for the modern sonic games are crazy hardcore fans so deep in denial about the flaws of their favourite game that even rpg.net would be ashamed of them.

The other half consists of crazy furries, which explains quite a bit when you think about it. It makes introducing yet another pointless anthropomorphic animal compainion, just a sweaty photoshop session away from being wank material, into a good business/design decision.

[Caudex]

The problem I had with Game Damage is that they seemed to have just turned on the camera without any kind of script. Which is fine on a Podcast when you can edit the brilliant bits together without the video jumping around, but here it came off as lazy.

Also, Yahtzee... I love your work man, but all your chemistry is in your voice. On film you just look glowery. I was expecting him to whip out a crowbar and lunge at the other two at any moment.
They also need to hire a makeup artist. Studio lights, guys, they make everyone look bad.
But it is, to be fair, just a home-financed pilot. Some bits were surprisingly well put-together.

On the other hand, the sketches were pretty lame and need to go.

[Achilles]

Wow. That's the second most negative review of Sonic Unleashed that I've ever seen.

What was the worst?

[BlackSheep]

How was the Sonic RPG made by Bioware?
Not bad, not great. Worth playing through, not a keeper. Not up there with the Mario & Luigi games. Very linear, awkward menu system, weird approach to equipment progression, overly shy about showing you stats. Combat is interesting but time-consuming when you're just trying to explore. Bosses are a walkover if you just alpha-strike them.

[Evan Waters]

Oh, I was hoping he'd do this. Yahtzee + Sonic game = carnage.

Granted, I've heard this isn't as bad as Sonic 06, but then again I'm not sure Daikatana was as bad as Sonic 06.

[Lazarus]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm reading the entire thread in "Yahtzee voice". It makes it ... a lot more hilarious.

Laz

[Vargen]

One thing to point out is Yahtzee seemed to be reviewing the Wii version of Sonic Unleashed, going by the fact that that was the only box shown. I read some discussion on another forum and the consensus was that the Wii version was much worse than the 360 one, which in turn was pretty decent. The vibe I was getting is it might be worth the rental for the 360, if only for nostalgia's sake.

[Evan Waters]

One thing to point out is Yahtzee seemed to be reviewing the Wii version of Sonic Unleashed, going by the fact that that was the only box shown. I read some discussion on another forum and the consensus was that the Wii version was much worse than the 360 one, which in turn was pretty decent. The vibe I was getting is it might be worth the rental for the 360, if only for nostalgia's sake.

Actually, he uses the Wii boxart, but some of the things he talks about are exclusive to the other versions. The Wii version replaces walking around the hub towns with a point-and-click system, for example.

[Joey McGuffin]

Hm. I actually found Game Damage relatively good, as in "better than the average TV show about games" which is admittedly not saying much. I incomprehensibly find Yahtzee's totally deadpan glowering delivery hilarious, and I find the other two guys, while not as talented as Yahtzee, serve as a good contrast and respite from the man's incessant bile, which I suspect might grate somewhat if he was the main guy in a twenty-minute-long show. If the other two got combed at least so that Yahtzee didn't out-style them so overwhelmingly (man that's an awesome hat) and didn't look and act quite so much like random nerdy gamers, we might be on to something here.

[Elbast]

The problem I had with Game Damage is that they seemed to have just turned on the camera without any kind of script. Which is fine on a Podcast when you can edit the brilliant bits together without the video jumping around, but here it came off as lazy.

Also, Yahtzee... I love your work man, but all your chemistry is in your voice. On film you just look glowery. I was expecting him to whip out a crowbar and lunge at the other two at any moment.

Apropos of nothing... that avatar? Classic gold-box goodness.

[Caudex]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm reading the entire thread in "Yahtzee voice". It makes it ... a lot more hilarious.

Laz
I do that with all threads, because he and I have very similar voices.
Hmm.

[Mostlyjoe]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3203/3120917721_c857e3a64b_m.jpg

It tastes like A1 sauce mixed with pickles. So basically crunchy A1 sauce.

[Tanka]

It tastes like A1 sauce mixed with pickles. So basically crunchy A1 sauce.
OK, seriously man, you're an entire thread behind us now.

[Mostlyjoe]

OK, seriously man, you're an entire thread behind us now.

I just got to sample it myself. So :P

[Coyote's Own]

This week's Zero Punctution is The Year in Review - 2008 (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/476-The-Year-in-Review-2008)

Well it calls it self a Year in Review, but it what most shows do when they blow they're bugent on hooker and drugs, meaning let's take the stuff that we got (the previous episode) put then in a blender and hope that no one notices.

And thus I end my abysmal attempt at Yahtzee styled humor and try to fins a rock to crawl under.

[Evan Waters]

And despite that being the Year in Review, this week we get spankin' new content: Prince of Persia (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/482-Prince-of-Persia).

[Reeze]

By yahtzee standards, that was a rather supportive review.

Having played it, i can agree with at least one complaint on the combat - the tenedcy for the oppents to do a combo that you simply cant coutnerattack your way out of, and you may as well just let them hit you. Persoanlly, i feel the combat really shines when you get to play ping pong with the opepnt, and enjoy the rather insane combos you can pull off... but when you are just doing combos, the combat quickly lacks challanege. It's an interesting quandry that one.

[Coyote's Own]

This time it's th real 2008 in review (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/486-Awards-for-2008)

[Lazarus]

Have you guys seen the Unskippable yet? Wow that's awesome. MST3K for videogames :p

Laz

[Coyote's Own]

Have you guys seen the Unskippable yet? Wow that's awesome. MST3K for videogames :p

Laz

Suddenly the mother extols the virtues of lubrication

Man, that really made me laugh out load.

[Joey McGuffin]

Suddenly the mother extols the virtues of lubrication

Man, rgar really made me laugh out load.

God, I can't imagine what it must be like to watch that intro without the commentary. What kind of game has a half an hour-long intro in which absolutely nothing happens?

The commentary, however, is hilarious.

[Stryke]

Have you guys seen the Unskippable yet? Wow that's awesome. MST3K for videogames :p

Laz

That was absolutely excellent! "This shot was marketed to vampires" and "oh those naughty naughty waves" were standouts.

[Gaming Geek]

My brain is hurting from trying to watch that cutscene....


wow.

[Caseyg]

Unskippable was great. I think I laughed more on their riffs than when I was watching Zero Punctuation.

[Peter LaCara]

God, I can't imagine what it must be like to watch that intro without the commentary. What kind of game has a half an hour-long intro in which absolutely nothing happens?

The commentary, however, is hilarious.

I can attest that if you have an HD tv, you spend about the first half an hour of Eternal Sonata going "Oh my god it's so pretty..." which fortunately lasts you long enough to get into the first gameplay segment. Also, it helps if you keep the language track in Japanese.

Doesn't really change the fact that the plot makes NO SENSE, though.

[Coyote's Own]

Doesn't really change the fact that the plot makes NO SENSE, though.

IIRC it the hallucnation of a dying Frederic Chopin, so I don't know if it should.

[David J Prokopetz]

I can attest that if you have an HD tv, you spend about the first half an hour of Eternal Sonata going "Oh my god it's so pretty..." which fortunately lasts you long enough to get into the first gameplay segment.The problem is that there some of the cutscenes in the rest of the game are similarly lengthy. If I recall correctly, at one point, a character has a dying monologue that goes on for about eight solid minutes.

[Coyote's Own]

This week:
Tomb Raider: Underwearworld (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/502-Tomb-Raider-Underworld)

Innovation is to this game what cheeseburgers are o lactose intolerant Hindu. :D

[Coyote's Own]

This week:
Farcry 2 (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/510-Farcry-2)

Done in a video game South African accent (that or Yahtzee is coming down with a cold).

[Belphanior]

Done in a video game South African accent (that or Yahtzee is coming down with a cold).

Didn't sound like South African to me, but maybe it did to him. I thought he sounded a lot more Australian this time around. Maybe it's finally rubbing off on him? :p

[Coyote's Own]

Didn't sound like South African to me, but maybe it did to him. I thought he sounded a lot more Australian this time around. Maybe it's finally rubbing off on him? :p

I think he was trying to emulated the SA accent from the game.

[Ugly Man]

I was thinking he sounded more Kiwi than Aussie.

[iTim]

I was thinking he sounded more Kiwi than Aussie.
Noooooo. So wrong. New Zealanders sound more like clonetroopers or Jango Fett.

It was definitely a bad South African accent.

[GabrielPierce]

Given he started the bad accent run with a quip about bad South African accents being a mutation, I'm gonna go with dodgy rip off of South African accent :P

[The Architect]

I think it was supposed to be South African following Mel Gibson in Lethal Weapon 2. But it wandered towards some bastard/hybrid foreign to all nations on God's Earth towards the end there.

[Caudex]

I think it was supposed to be South African following Mel Gibson in Lethal Weapon 2. But it wandered towards some bastard/hybrid foreign to all nations on God's Earth towards the end there.
Sproutface di Caprio in Blood Diamond, basically.

[lunaticvermin]

Sproutface di Caprio in Blood Diamond, basically.

DiCaprio wasn't doing a South African accent in that film, nor was he trying to.







Me old china.





Sorry, that phrase got into my head from Far Cry 2.

[Evan Waters]

This week, Gears of War 2 (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/525-Gears-of-War-2), which seems to work in spite of itself.

[bubbles]

I liked that review. Sometimes the 'I hate everything' thing gets a bit tired, so it was nice to hear him review something that he liked.

[Stantz]

And the last frame of the Gears of War review puts an end to this argument.

[Zemi]

Huh. While I'll probably never play it, it's nice to hear that Yahtzee can give proper kudos to the mainstream now and again. Plus, cowboy-hat-mainstreamer was funny enough that I had to rewind it.

Also, I'm starting to dig this Unskippable thing. "What if I go skydiving?" "Your kid dies." "Oh, okay."

[Stephenls]

That's remarkably close to my opinion of Gears of War 2.

[Spectrum]

Is it just me or did he talk alot slower this week?

[moondog548]

That's one of the funniest ones ever in my book. I lol'd on more than one occasion!

Also Ian Dorsch sucks ass. This is old news but I think I'm gonna post that after every ep now. Yeah. Yeah I think I really should.

[Jolinar]

Also Ian Dorsch sucks ass.

Dare I ask why?

[Ian Dorsch]

Also Ian Dorsch sucks ass. This is old news but I think I'm gonna post that after every ep now. Yeah. Yeah I think I really should.

I agree. ;)

[Spectrum]

Little Big Planet (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/530-Little-Big-Planet)
"...and I believe every single person is a tosser..."

Unskippable is Grandia III and the teaser at the end both entertains me and makes me kind of want to play the game.

[moondog548]

Dare I ask why?

Watch the credits.

I agree. ;)

lawl

[Coyote's Own]

Little Big Planet (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/530-Little-Big-Planet)
"...and I believe every single person is a tosser..."

Unskippable is Grandia III and the teaser at the end both entertains me and makes me kind of want to play the game.

Unstoppable does have it own thread (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=433493) you know.

[Spectrum]

Unstoppable does have it own thread (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=433493) you know.
And I was referring to it in the context of being the teaser at the end of this week's Zero Punctuation.

[Professor Phobos]

I really shouldn't have tried to watch this at work!

[Qooroo]

That was rather good. And possibly the first ZP of a game I've played where I agree pretty much 100%.

[Save-vs-DM]

My god, I can't stop laughing this time. It was just so immature and funny!

[weasel fierce]

yeah, the eye pants dance did me in too

[woodsmoke]

Glad to know I wasn't the only one. That was fraking hilarious. :D

Also good to know Yahtzee's thoughts on the game pretty well match my own, despite the fact I've yet to play it. I don't think it looks bad, but I'm not terribly excited by the idea of being given a game I have to make.

[Caudex]

I too was disappointed that LBP had nothing to do with Little Big Adventure.

[wingedcoyote]

Question: Is the music in the googly-eyes-on-a-butt sequence a pre-existing track that doesn't originally come from Beyond The Valley Of The Dolls, or did he actually use a track from the Beyond The Valley Of The Dolls score? Because that would be pretty epic.

[Firelight]

Question: Is the music in the googly-eyes-on-a-butt sequence a pre-existing track that doesn't originally come from Beyond The Valley Of The Dolls, or did he actually use a track from the Beyond The Valley Of The Dolls score? Because that would be pretty epic.

Soul Bossa Nova, by Quincy Jones. Recorded in 1962.

[moondog548]

Was pretty funny tho light on the content, which of course he dealt with in style. The googley-eyed-butt was 1000x more amusing than it had any right to be.

And Ian Dorsch sucks ass. (no offense, Ian)

[Ian Dorsch]

(no offense, Ian)

Well, thanks for that, anyway.

[Wields-Rulebook-Heavily]

New video (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/544-Thief-The-Dark-Project), by the way.

I'd call it an odd choice, but I went "fuck yes" in my head when I saw it. :p Thief: The Dark Project.

[nonsense]

Ok, I'll bite, 'cause I feel like I'm missing something.

Ian Dorsch, who are you and why do you suck?

[nonsense]

New video (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/544-Thief-The-Dark-Project), by the way.

I'd call it an odd choice, but I went "fuck yes" in my head when I saw it. :p Thief: The Dark Project.

That was neat. Man, I loved Thief.

[JerekKruger]

Well that just made me buy Thief 2 off amazon despite the fact that I'm fairly sure if I looked hard enough at home I could find my old copy.

[Professor Phobos]

I wish the Thief games would come out on Steam.

[JerekKruger]

I wish the Thief games would come out on Steam.

Seconded

[Prinny Squad]

I wish the Thief games would come out on Steam.

3rd one is.
I need to play it more...

[Ian Dorsch]

Ok, I'll bite, 'cause I feel like I'm missing something.

Ian Dorsch, who are you and why do you suck?

I'm the guy they hired to write some theme music for Yahtzee. Yahtzee loves it, so I'm at peace with the whole thing. :)

I understand the people who are still bitter about the loss of Yahtzee's quirky, hand-picked intro music selections. Honestly, I kind of miss them too. Anyway, I guess that's why I suck. I wrote some other music too. That stuff might not suck as much, I'm not sure.

[nonsense]

Aha!

Well, for what it's worth, I have nothing against you.

[woodsmoke]

Nor I. Your ZP theme may not have quite as much... character to it as the individually selected songs he used to use, but it serves well enough. :)

[Ian Dorsch]

Thanks. :D

[Zemi]

Now that's what I call service:

"Who's Ian Dorsch?"
*POINK!*
"Why, I'm Ian Dorsch!"
"Oh. Well, then. Carry on."
"I will!"
*KNOIP!*

Also, it's always nice when Yahtzee reviews a game he likes. Especially when it's one I like.

[Axiomatic]

Oh fuck, he made a DRRR DRRR DRRR joke.

I'm not sleeping tonight.

[Wields-Rulebook-Heavily]

In a bizarre move of serendipity, I've just found my copy of Thief. I thought I'd lost it.

I'll be in my bunk.

[Coyote's Own]

I have nothing to add except to join in with the I love Thief crowd, and agree with Yahtzee that the third one definitely did stand up to it's prequels.

[Vargen]

I'm the guy they hired to write some theme music for Yahtzee. Yahtzee loves it, so I'm at peace with the whole thing. :)

I understand the people who are still bitter about the loss of Yahtzee's quirky, hand-picked intro music selections. Honestly, I kind of miss them too. Anyway, I guess that's why I suck. I wrote some other music too. That stuff might not suck as much, I'm not sure.

While I too miss the custom songs for each game, I'd go so far as to say that your replacement goes beyond serviceable. It's catchy, it rocks, and it sets up Yahtzee rather well.

It's nowhere near as awesome as the stuff you've done for the Gamers With Jobs Conference Call though. If they ever bring back Firefly you should apply for the scoring job.

[Random Nerd]

I have nothing to add except to join in with the I love Thief crowd, and agree with Yahtzee that the third one definitely did stand up to it's prequels.

It wasn't bad, though. It had some missions that were the equal of the best of the other ones. It just seemed a bit... off.

[Coyote's Own]

It wasn't bad, though. It had some missions that were the equal of the best of the other ones. It just seemed a bit... off.

The levels where claustrophobic compared with the pervious parts, and being slip in to parts made them seem even smaller. after the glory that was the Soulforge Cathedral, it was a real let down. Even the free roaming City felt limited in comparison to the city level of Dark Project and Metal Age.

It also lacked strong characterisation aside of Garrent IMO. With no Constantine, no Viktoria, and no Karras, or similary strong character the story felt weaker.


My other nitpick would be that the city guards looked nothing like the city guards of previous games.

[Random Nerd]

Oh, I agree that it wasn't as good as the other two.

But I don't think it was bad. Just, a little less good.

[Coyote's Own]

Oh, I agree that it wasn't as good as the other two.

But I don't think it was bad. Just, a little less good.

If it would have been bad i would have played through it. :)

[Azimer the Mad]

With this much nostalgia, I'd love to see him review X-Com.

[Professor Phobos]

3rd one is.
I need to play it more...

I know, but I don't want to play 3 until I play 1 and 2, and I'm sure I'd like these games.


With this much nostalgia, I'd love to see him review X-Com.

Has he ever reviewed a strategy game? There have been plenty of major RTS releases since he's started his thing, and nothing. I suspect he's not a fan. Hates turn-based combat as well, AFAIK.

[DivineCoffeeBinge]

Hey, Ian Dorsch - while I, too, miss the individual music selections, the music that ZP uses now3 gets stuck in my head for days and always makes me smile, so for my money (which is, admittedly, zero dollars) you done good. :D

[Spectrum]

Has he ever reviewed a strategy game? There have been plenty of major RTS releases since he's started his thing, and nothing. I suspect he's not a fan. Hates turn-based combat as well, AFAIK.
He mostly reviews FPS's or third person action type games. He certainly hates jRPGs as well.

[moondog548]

So you're seriously THE Ian Dorsch? I assumed someone had simply registered that name as a joke to play off my joke. Heh. Well, to explain, I honestly don't like the ZP theme not because it's low quality, but just because it's a kind of meaningless (in the context of what Yahtz is giving us that is) generic drum and distortion riff that's not really offensive but just needlessly delaying the video-game dick jokes I came for. ;-} Technically speaking it's just fine and obviously lot's of folks do like it and I have absolutely no basis to criticize any other work of yours. And I honestly never blamed you since I'm sure it's not like it was all your idea to give the show a jingle. :P You sir, do not suck ass. My hyperbolic vitriol is obviously henceforth rendered moot.

[token on topicness]I remember digging Thief so maybe I better check out Thief 2.

[Monkey King]

HOR HOR HOR FLEE FROM MECHA GANDALF

I have no idea why he even did that, but it had me in stitches.

General ditto sentiment from me on the Thief series, though. I never really got to finish any of them, but I'd be all over those games like white on rice if they ever popped up for sale in some convenient fashion.

[DooM GazE]

He mostly reviews FPS's or third person action type games. He certainly hates jRPGs as well.

Which is too bad, because a scathing stream of hate towards all the people who aren't buying Valkyria Chronicles would be helpful for encouraging cool games to get made.

[Spectrum]

Well, he does occasionally review games on recommendation. I guess if we flood his box with "VC was the strategy game of 2008" maybe he'll get to it.

[DooM GazE]

Well, he does occasionally review games on recommendation. I guess if we flood his box with "VC was the strategy game of 2008" maybe he'll get to it.

Except he probably wouldn't like it, given his violent allergy to JRPG cliches. Which VC does have in spades, even if it's married to a wonderful system.

[flashedarling]

Except he probably wouldn't like it, given his violent allergy to JRPG cliches. Which VC does have in spades, even if it's married to a wonderful system.

Which is why it is perfect for a ZP review. It has the perfect balance of things to hate (JRPG cliches) and things to love (The awesome strategy gameplay) that make for the best kind of review.

[Ian Dorsch]

So you're seriously THE Ian Dorsch? I assumed someone had simply registered that name as a joke to play off my joke. Heh. Well, to explain, I honestly don't like the ZP theme not because it's low quality, but just because it's a kind of meaningless (in the context of what Yahtz is giving us that is) generic drum and distortion riff that's not really offensive but just needlessly delaying the video-game dick jokes I came for. ;-} Technically speaking it's just fine and obviously lot's of folks do like it and I have absolutely no basis to criticize any other work of yours. And I honestly never blamed you since I'm sure it's not like it was all your idea to give the show a jingle. :P You sir, do not suck ass. My hyperbolic vitriol is obviously henceforth rendered moot.

It's cool, man. :)

While I too miss the custom songs for each game, I'd go so far as to say that your replacement goes beyond serviceable. It's catchy, it rocks, and it sets up Yahtzee rather well.

It's nowhere near as awesome as the stuff you've done for the Gamers With Jobs Conference Call though. If they ever bring back Firefly you should apply for the scoring job.

Heh, if only it were that easy. Thanks, though, I appreciate it!

[Coyote's Own]

This week: Skate 2 (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/553-Skate-2)

Fun, if a bit tame. I think this is the first time that Yahtzee went it's not for me rather then it bad, but my memory might be slipping.

[Spectrum]

I couldn't see with enough detail. What game popped up when he said "child molestation"?

[Stryke]

Uncharted on the PS3, no idea what that's a reference to though.

[Spectrum]

Uncharted on the PS3, no idea what that's a reference to though.
No, that was Racism.

Christianity was Left Behind.

[Stantz]

I couldn't see with enough detail. What game popped up when he said "child molestation"?I'm pretty sure that it was the Witch Touching game for the DS.

[Stryke]

Ah rewatched it your right its Dokidoki Majo Shinpan! (http://uk.gamespot.com/ds/puzzle/dokidokimajosaiban/screenindex.html?sid=6158380)

Edit: Here we go posted for relevence;

http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2007/20070420.jpg

[ezekielreigns]

I love the look on his face when he says who cares.

[Matt David T.]

Fear 2 is up!

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/565-Fear-2

...and pretty funny!

[Stryke]

After a few weeks of fairly standard Yahtzee-ish reviews, this week he goes off the number strewn beaten path that is the current recent releases and reviews a spiderman game from last year, and it's really quite funny.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/584-Spiderman-Web-of-Shadows

Got to say I'm definitely in favour of ZP not having to stick to the most recent games for reviews, especially if we get reviews as good as this one.

[Stephenls]

And this week's Unskippable is Digital Devil Saga. I think those guys are getting better.

[woodsmoke]

After a few weeks of fairly standard Yahtzee-ish reviews, this week he goes off the number strewn beaten path that is the current recent releases and reviews a spiderman game from last year, and it's really quite funny.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/584-Spiderman-Web-of-Shadows

Got to say I'm definitely in favour of ZP not having to stick to the most recent games for reviews, especially if we get reviews as good as this one.

Web of Shadows is and probably always will be the only game I've ever gotten all the achievements for (at least until the next decent Spidey game comes out, anyway). This should be fun.

Edit: Yup, as awesome as expected. I'll readily cop to being a Spidey whore (I did beat it 4 times, after all, as well as take the time to get a 250-hit combo and track down 2000 fucking tokens in the course thereof), but Yahtzee's criticisms are, as usual, spot on. I did think the swinging was still fun (though the lack of physics is missed), but one would think the developers would realize being able to swing faster than the game can load and thus running into an invisible wall of nothing on occasion while the processor struggles to catch up with how awesome you are wouldn't exactly be seen as a feature by we the players and should be corrected before the game ships. Were it not for that, I'd say the game is desperately in need of a DLC race pack - though, truth be told, I'd probably still play the shit out of it if one were released, invisible walls be damned.

[Spectrum]

I enjoyed this week's ZP, even as I was amused how he wanted no part of SF4.

I'd comment on how hilarious this week's Unskippable was, especially the Fallout 3 reference, but someone would yell at me again for not using Unskippable's thread.

[JustinCognito]

Heh. "Chaotic Neutral." The D&D refs keep coming.

[Qooroo]

That's one of the best I've seen in a while.

[Santiago]

This week, House of the Dead: Overkill (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/600-House-of-the-Dead-Overkill), with a mini review/comparison of/to Killzone 2.

Looks like I know what I'm getting with my birthday money. :)

[Stryke]

Oh boy... well he reviews 50 cent: Blood on the Sand (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/616-50-Cent-Blood-on-the-Sand) this week and imo it's so close to the knuckle its gnawing the bone.

My main issue leaving aside the racial commentary is that it's just wasn't that funny this week (subliminal messages aside) and that can usually forgive a multitude of sins which I'm not entirely sure Yahtzee gets away with here.

[Matt David T.]

I chuckled a bit throughout, but I have to admit I think the best joke in the entire thing was over the credits - when he put forward the idea that BotS was a prequel to CoD4 about how 50 Cent managed to single-handedly destabilize a fictional middle-eastern country.

That made me laugh out loud.

[ezekielreigns]

I chuckled a bit throughout, but I have to admit I think the best joke in the entire thing was over the credits - when he put forward the idea that BotS was a prequel to CoD4 about how 50 Cent managed to single-handedly destabilize a fictional middle-eastern country.

That made me laugh out loud.

I agree. That was pretty hilarious. The cut off joke at the end was a bit in bad taste. If you're going to make a off color joke like that you have to go over the top ala South Park.

[JustinCognito]

I agree. That was pretty hilarious. The cut off joke at the end was a bit in bad taste. If you're going to make a off color joke like that you have to go over the top ala South Park.

South Park actually did the same thing in one episode; after an episode of the entire town trying to drive out the rich people (who just happened to be black) and adopting tactics that looked very racist, the episode ends with Mr. Garrison saying, "Well, I'm just glad we got rid of those nig-"

[Wields-Rulebook-Heavily]

I laughed. I guess I'm just horrible that way. :p

I usually have a hair trigger for racism (having been in two interracial relationships now) but this just made me chuckle. He set it up pretty nicely, what with the scrolling soapbox text and world peace tirade, and he doesn't make the mistake of conflating poverty with race which is frankly a far worse sin- he makes a point of not doing it, and continually makes fun of himself to show he's not serious.

Then there's the game itself, which has a premise I'm still not quite over. 50 cent as Indiana Jones? :D

[Frank Armoton]

Oh boy... well he reviews [URL="http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/616-50-Cent-Blood-on-the-Sand"]...(subliminal messages aside) ...

What was in the subliminal messages? I lack the patience to actually try to pause in the right moment.. :confused:

[jadarx]

What was in the subliminal messages? I lack the patience to actually try to pause in the right moment.. :confused:

I *think* it's a picture of Yahtzee with his arm around a black guy, with the arrow "Not Racist" pointing at him.

[JerekKruger]

I *think* it's a picture of Yahtzee with his arm around a black guy, with the arrow "Not Racist" pointing at him.

Indeed it was.

[Elemental]

I *think* it's a picture of Yahtzee with his arm around a black guy, with the arrow "Not Racist" pointing at him.

Father Ted reference?

[Spectrum]

Colbert report running joke?

"My Token _____ Friend"

[Coyote's Own]

This week:
RE5 (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/624-Resident-Evil-5)

And it's your wall.

[Axiomatic]

No more Mr. Ah, I'll Buy That At A High Price? :(

[Brawndo]

No more Mr. Ah, I'll Buy That At A High Price? :(

Apparently, while playing RE4, I was better at shooting things than I was at recognizing people. I can't tell you how many times I shot that guy in a panic, having spotted him from a distance.

But yeah, he's gone. Instead you buy and sell stuff in between chapters to no one in particular. Also, there's no ridiculous combining of dropped treasures in order to increase their worth; you just sell it all. Which I love.

[Stephenls]

Would you believe that when I was given a review build of this game, the documentation that came with it expressly forbid me from mentioning the existence of weapon upgrading in my review?

[Wields-Rulebook-Heavily]

Would you believe that when I was given a review build of this game, the documentation that came with it expressly forbid me from mentioning the existence of weapon upgrading in my review?

...Why would a reviewer not be allowed to tout a feature? I mean, this just boggles my mind.

[Stephenls]

...Why would a reviewer not be allowed to tout a feature? I mean, this just boggles my mind.

The best I can come up with is that the review-build was nonfinal and they were still considering giving a complete overhaul to the upgrade system if time permitted, so anything said about it in a review of the review build would have been misleading.

I have a final copy of the game now and it looks exactly the same.

[TheGrog]

Flee, flee from your support character and her leafy green branch!

I wonder what happens when you give her grenades?

[Stephenls]

Flee, flee from your support character and her leafy green branch!

I wonder what happens when you give her grenades?

She never uses them. I was disappointed.

I never had the problems Yatzhee describes, though, and routinely gave Sheva my healing items because I knew she'd use them on me when I needed them without me having to think about it.

[Brawndo]

She never uses them. I was disappointed.

I never had the problems Yatzhee describes, though, and routinely gave Sheva my healing items because I knew she'd use them on me when I needed them without me having to think about it.

I never had that problem either, Sheva always used the herbs at appropriate times, to the point I found it easier just to give them all to her. I did find that the AI partner used the pistol almost exclusively, as long as there was pistol ammo in their inventory. What I generally do is only let my partner have one weapon, and let them have all the ammo that drops for that weapon. If they do pick up other ammo, they'll give it to me at the first opportunity.

I'm playing through Veteran difficulty now, as Sheva with Chris as my AI partner. I took away all his weapons except the pistol and let him soak up all the ammo and since the pistol is maxed out on upgrades, he is very effective with it... heads exploding left and right. I mostly use the longbow, which doesn't rely on ammo drops.

[Stryke]

This week X-Blade (Kinda) and Halo Wars (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/645-Halo-Wars)

Quality stuff and Unskippable crossing over onto Zero Punctuation was a hell of a lot more funnier than the other way round.

[Shadowjack]

The crossover was amusing for trying to parody Yahtzee's style, and then became doubly funny because—when Yahtzee finally showed up—we're reminded just how good he actually is.

And the third review was awesome. :D

"As the frustrating Chinese zookeeper said to the last male panda on Earth… fuck that!"


Also, Pony Jam? These people are silly.

[Coyote's Own]

Quality stuff and Unskippable crossing over onto Zero Punctuation was a hell of a lot more funnier than the other way round.

Agreed, but that again they had the training wheels on, since they got to review a game that positively sucks.

[Skinner's Pigeon]

And the third review was awesome. :D

Indeed! I had to watch it twice. Somebody was channeling Gremlins 2. :D





blah blah blah (yum)

[Axiomatic]

Unskippable/Zero Punctuation CROSSOVER? It's like waking up and being told that today is DOUBLE CHRISTMASS.

[weasel fierce]

BULL
FUCKING
SHIT

Proves that its all about the positioning and timing of a swear to make it effective :)

[Melle]

This week X-Blade (Kinda) and Halo Wars (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/645-Halo-Wars)

Quality stuff and Unskippable crossing over onto Zero Punctuation was a hell of a lot more funnier than the other way round.

I'd say that because Yathzee managed to fit in seamlessly in Unskippable.If he'd had a less distinct voice I wouldn't even have noticed there was a third person there. Thus less effect.

[Coyote's Own]

I'd say that because Yathzee managed to fit in seamlessly in Unskippable.If he'd had a less distinct voice I wouldn't even have noticed there was a third person there. Thus less effect.

I' have the exact opposite opinion. Yathzee really didn't have any chemistry with the Unskippable guys, and tried too much to be dick (which is his Om-lien persona) and so come out as person trying too hard to be a dick.
He was jarringly out of place.

[woodsmoke]

I understand what you're saying and agree completely, but isn't that kind of like Michael Jordan trying too hard to be good at basketball? ;)

[Coyote's Own]

This week: GTA: Chinatown Wars (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/657-Grand-Theft-Auto-Chinatown-Wars)

Didn't do much for me.

[Caudex]

This week: GTA: Chinatown Wars (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/657-Grand-Theft-Auto-Chinatown-Wars)

Didn't do much for me.
The experiment at the end made me chuckle.

[Zemi]

This Week, MadWorld!
(http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/673-MadWorld)
Man, every time he reviews a Wii game, I feel like a complete tool for having bought one.

[Santiago]

This Week, MadWorld!
(http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/673-MadWorld)
Man, every time he reviews a Wii game, I feel like a complete tool for having bought one.

For me, it's the closest that I get to just dismissing anything he has to say outright. Has he liked any Wii games (genuine question... I have an atrocious memory)? Is he capable of giving a Wii game a positive review, based solely on his dislike of the platform? I think he liked No More Heroes (which would be weird, given that many of the complaints he leveled against Mad World would apply to NMH), but were there more?

Granted, what he was saying about Mad World sounds like I wouldn't care for the game, either, but some of that review was very much "...that part of the game sucks because it's on the Wii!"

EDIT: He liked House of the Dead: Overkill, didn't he?

[Zemi]

For me, it's the closest that I get to just dismissing anything he has to say outright. Has he liked any Wii games (genuine question... I have an atrocious memory)? Is he capable of giving a Wii game a positive review, based solely on his dislike of the platform? I think he liked No More Heroes (which would be weird, given that many of the complaints he leveled against Mad World would apply to NMH), but were there more?

Granted, what he was saying about Mad World sounds like I wouldn't care for the game, either, but some of that review was very much "...that part of the game sucks because it's on the Wii!"

EDIT: He liked House of the Dead: Overkill, didn't he?

I seem to recall him speaking fondly of Zack and Wiki, the point-and-click adventure game, but that was probably more because it was a point-and-click adventure game. When I say 'speaking fondly', I mean 'not declaring it utter crap off the bat'.

[Evan Waters]

He's actually given individual Wii games good reviews- SUPER MARIO GALAXY was positive IIRC, and HOUSE OF THE DEAD: OVERKILL and RESIDENT EVIL: UMBRELLA CHRONICLES got qualified recommendations.

When it comes to the console itself he does risk sounding like one of those gamers who's upset that Nintendo is targeting demographics other than his own for the first time ever.

That said, this review was a good one because it gave me enough information to start forming my own judgment, and I think I'd actually enjoy this game. It sounds like SMASH TV.

[Asmodai]

I like my Wii - but I understand his complaint about the controls being unresponsive. This happens most in 3rd party games. In DDR: Hottest Party, you could put the Wiimote on a paint shaker for two minuites, and the software still wouldn't recognize the waggle.

The game itself sounds like an OK rental - but nothing I'd buy.

[Melle]

For me, it's the closest that I get to just dismissing anything he has to say outright. Has he liked any Wii games (genuine question... I have an atrocious memory)? Is he capable of giving a Wii game a positive review, based solely on his dislike of the platform? I think he liked No More Heroes (which would be weird, given that many of the complaints he leveled against Mad World would apply to NMH), but were there more?

Granted, what he was saying about Mad World sounds like I wouldn't care for the game, either, but some of that review was very much "...that part of the game sucks because it's on the Wii!"

EDIT: He liked House of the Dead: Overkill, didn't he?

Whenever a game arbitrarily replaces button pressing with stick waggling, it does suck because it's on the Wii.

[Elemental]

Tom Clancy's H.A.W.X this week.

"...wearing silly hats!" (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/689-Tom-Clancys-H-A-W-X)

[Axiomatic]

The girl has a willy!

[Seroster]

Hehehe. I am easily amused, but I liked that one.

Actually it was good to see that he had fun with a game :) and then savagely ripped the story to bits. :D

[moondog548]

Yeah that one was delightful. He got to have enjoy himself and just surf the wave of nonsense on in to the beach. ;-}

[Coyote's Own]

This week: Siren: Blood Curse (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/696-Siren-Blood-Curse)

A a tangentially related note: I applied for job at People Can Fly today (they're looking for secretary), and was asked by guy receiving my CV what a Hamon is (due to my listing Japanese culture and history as one of my interests). I precided to give him a short, but information rich lecture. :D

[JerekKruger]

Well I have learnt something new today. I knew what a hamon was but didn't realise that was the name for it. Hope the application goes well.

As for this weeks Zero Punctuation, I didn't find it particularly funny. I can't work out if that's because it is less funny or because the game doesn't interest me.

[Stantz]

Well I have learnt something new today. I knew what a hamon was but didn't realise that was the name for it. Hope the application goes well.

As for this weeks Zero Punctuation, I didn't find it particularly funny. I can't work out if that's because it is less funny or because the game doesn't interest me.I think a lot of it this week has to do with dealing with a bleh game. Not a bad game, which does everything painfully wrong, but a game where there just isn't a lot actually happening. Sure, what it does do is incredibly poorly realized, but the bite-sized episodes means that it drags you along so fast that you don't really care enough to get mad about the last fuck-up because the next one is right around the corner.

[Kushiel]

Who is the guy whose image Yahtzee deploys in relation to, like, everything? Serious-looking guy, dark brown hair, wearing a suit, staring directly into the camera.

[fellowhoodlum]

Who is the guy whose image Yahtzee deploys in relation to, like, everything? Serious-looking guy, dark brown hair, wearing a suit, staring directly into the camera.

I think it's like an old photo of Yahtzee himself

[The Architect]

Who is the guy whose image Yahtzee deploys in relation to, like, everything? Serious-looking guy, dark brown hair, wearing a suit, staring directly into the camera.

For some reason I think it's Rick Astely, of RickRoll "fame". For no good reason, mind you.

I thought this episode was somewhat mediocre, but that's probably more to do with knowing absolutely nothing about the game, never having heard of it before Yahtzee told me it existed.

[shodan]

I thought this episode was somewhat mediocre, but that's probably more to do with knowing absolutely nothing about the game, never having heard of it before Yahtzee told me it existed.

Yeah, same for me. Generally, I've at least *heard of* the game Yahtzee is talking about. If I've actually played it, his "reviews" are even funnier.

But Siren: Blood Curse?

Never /heard/ of it. (And what's with that ridiculous title, anyway?) His show wasn't funny to me this week, because I had absolutely no reference point for what he was making fun of.

This is largely the reason I never watch Unskipable. They never show games that I've actually played before, so all of the humor would be lost on me.

[Shadowjack]

One thing that did make me laugh was a rather subtle (and simple) visual: He made the "frame rate of a PowerPoint presentation" comparison… and then transitioned to the next scene using one of the "cute" PowerPoint transitions, instead of a straight cut.

[Cortani]

This is largely the reason I never watch Unskipable. They never show games that I've actually played before, so all of the humor would be lost on me.

Unskippable vids don't really require any knowledge of the game in question.

[Caseyg]

I find it amusing that so many people have never heard of Siren. The series has been around for over 4 years now and it's made by the creator of the first Silent Hill game, Keiichirō Toyama, along with some of members from Team Silent. Perhapse like the "D" series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D_(series)) and the Echo Night series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echo_Night), The Siren trilogy has managed to remain esoteric?

Now, now don't pay any attention to those strange looking games boxes tucked away in the corner of some store shelf at your local Gamespot. Their dusty, worm ridden, and made by some strange overseas developer. Just go and buy Halo 3 three like all the other good, sane children are doing...and remember ignorance is bliss. ;)

[shodan]

Unskippable vids don't really require any knowledge of the game in question.

They do to me. They're simply not funny unless I can somehow relate to what they're goin' on about.

[Random Nerd]

I find it amusing that so many people have never heard of Siren. The series has been around for over 4 years now and it's made by the creator of the first Silent Hill game, Keiichirō Toyama, along with some of members from Team Silent. Perhapse like the "D" series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D_(series)) and the Echo Night series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echo_Night), The Siren trilogy has managed to remain esoteric?

Now, now don't pay any attention to those strange looking games boxes tucked away in the corner of some store shelf at your local Gamespot. Their dusty, worm ridden, and made by some strange overseas developer. Just go and buy Halo 3 three like all the other good, sane children are doing...and remember ignorance is bliss. ;)

I'm a fan of all thee Silent Hill games, and I've also perhaps played one or two other games that due to some printer's mishap had the words "Silent Hill" printed on them. I've even watched the movie, which at least had its moments. For that matter, I have been known to just sit down in the dark and listen to the soundtracks of all three Silent Hill games.

Never heard of this "Siren: Blood Curse" thing until yesterday.

[Caudex]

I find it amusing that so many people have never heard of Siren. The series has been around for over 4 years now and it's made by the creator of the first Silent Hill game, Keiichirō Toyama, along with some of members from Team Silent. Perhapse like the "D" series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D_(series)) and the Echo Night series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echo_Night), The Siren trilogy has managed to remain esoteric?

Now, now don't pay any attention to those strange looking games boxes tucked away in the corner of some store shelf at your local Gamespot. Their dusty, worm ridden, and made by some strange overseas developer. Just go and buy Halo 3 three like all the other good, sane children are doing...and remember ignorance is bliss. ;)
Yes, yes, you're very clever. Well done.

[Mengtzu]

Now, now don't pay any attention to those strange looking games boxes tucked away in the corner of some store shelf at your local Gamespot. Their dusty, worm ridden, and made by some strange overseas developer. Just go and buy Halo 3 three like all the other good, sane children are doing...and remember ignorance is bliss. ;)

Dude, this forum has plenty of genre fans, and plenty of threads on obscure games (this is the only place I hear about half of Atlus or NiS' catalogues).

I think what we have here is a legitimate marketing failure.

[Cortani]

They do to me. They're simply not funny unless I can somehow relate to what they're goin' on about.

Huh, fair beans I guess. I just can't relate though, as they don't really make any game-specific jokes, it's mostly genre stuff. Besides, they're literally showing you an introduction to the game.

[shodan]

Huh, fair beans I guess. I just can't relate though, as they don't really make any game-specific jokes, it's mostly genre stuff. Besides, they're literally showing you an introduction to the game.

I think we're kind of accidentally agreeing with each other, here.

I'm basically saying "I don't *get* Unskipable; most likely because I am not its target audience." :)

You seem to be saying the same thing, yes? Or no?

[Caseyg]

Dude, this forum has plenty of genre fans, and plenty of threads on obscure games (this is the only place I hear about half of Atlus or NiS' catalogues).

I think what we have here is a legitimate marketing failure.

Okay...wait...I got a couple more! How about the Clock Tower series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clock_Tower_(series))? Ever heard of that? Or Rule of Rose (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_Rose)? It has a visual style similar to Silent Hill.

Anyway getting back to Siren...there are reviews of Blood Curse on IGN and Gamespot. Gametrailers put up a half-dozen videos for Blood Curse when it came out last year, plus they mentioned it on the Bonus Round a few weeks back.

Honestly, I think the reason not many people have heard of Siren (or a lot of the other games I've mentioned) is because your character is an underpowered wimp while the enemies are invincible bad asses. Take Echo Night: Beyond for example...your character has no weapons nor can he get any, he moves like a tank because he's wearing a bulky space suit on the moon. Enemies on the other hand are ghosts which pass through walls and kill you just by getting close to you (your character panics and has a heart attack). Did I mention that if you even see said ghosts your screen goes blurry and your movement speed is reduced?

Scary (for me)? Hell yes! Fun? Not so much...

How about Martian Gothic: Unification (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_Gothic)? Okay, I'll stop now...Yes, I know I'm being a dick. :p

[Cortani]

I think we're kind of accidentally agreeing with each other, here.

I'm basically saying "I don't *get* Unskipable; most likely because I am not its target audience." :)

You seem to be saying the same thing, yes? Or no?

Probably yes :)

I just have a hard time wrapping my head around someone surfing the video game channel of a roleplaying website named Shodan not being the target audience :P

[Spin]

Okay...wait...I got a couple more! How about the Clock Tower series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clock_Tower_(series))? Ever heard of that? Or Rule of Rose (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_Rose)? It has a visual style similar to Silent Hill.

Anyway getting back to Siren...there are reviews of Blood Curse on IGN and Gamespot. Gametrailers put up a half-dozen videos for Blood Curse when it came out last year, plus they mentioned it on the Bonus Round a few weeks back.

Honestly, I think the reason not many people have heard of Siren (or a lot of the other games I've mentioned) is because your character is an underpowered wimp while the enemies are invincible bad asses. Take Echo Night: Beyond for example...your character has no weapons nor can he get any, he moves like a tank because he's wearing a bulky space suit on the moon. Enemies on the other hand are ghosts which pass through walls and kill you just by getting close to you (your character panics and has a heart attack). Did I mention that if you even see said ghosts your screen goes blurry and your movement speed is reduced?

Scary (for me)? Hell yes! Fun? Not so much...

How about Martian Gothic: Unification (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_Gothic)? Okay, I'll stop now...Yes, I know I'm being a dick. :p

I've heard of all of those, played survival horror when it was called Alone in the Dark and I played Blood Curse when it came out as episodes. Yay me, but so what. The game came out as sort of a mega-sized DLC experiment with the boxed version coming out later as an afterthought. The game was also hardly mentioned anywhere, and the first Siren games suffered from issues like unbearably bad voice acting and seriously uneven difficulty. Just because it's obscure, doesn't mean it's any good.

Having said that, some parts of Blood Curse were epicly scary. Some just sucked, like the intro with the zombie police and the Invisible Forest Path of Dark Graphics.

[Voidnaut]

I didn't give Echo Night: Beyond away because it was hard, I gave it away because it was... there really needs to be a new word invented to describe just how bad the writing and acting were.

-Voidnaut

[Axiomatic]

I suspect the reason nobody's heard about Siren is that there isn't a PC port.

[Wields-Rulebook-Heavily]

I suspect the reason nobody's heard about Siren is that it's not very good.

[Andy K]

I suspect the reason nobody's heard about Siren is that it's not very good.

The Story and characters behind the original SIREN are phenomenal. Perhaps one of the best, in terms of horror games. But the execution was horrible. Yahzee says so, but not in detail. The details are:

1) The English version: The voice acting used UK talent, which is fine... they just happened to be the WORST UK voice talent anyone could ever bother finding, ever.
(also, no option to change back to original Japanese voices with Eng text, yech).

2) It was the hardest game ever made. Ever. It makes Battletoads look "moderately difficult", and far less frustrating. There were no "difficulty levels", so it was all one giant impossible fuck.

I bought the game when it came out. Bought the Japanese strategy guide later: Didn't help much. Bought the ENGLISH strategy guide once the game came to the US. STILL didn't help. Even with "here's what you should clearly do" laid out in front of my, it was still impossible to make it happen.

But the combination of glueing real human faces onto the frames of the figures... wow, that was some horrifyingly awesome experimentation, and worked really well.

- - - - -

SIREN 2 I hold as one of the best games to come out on PS2: It wasn't quite as scary to me as SIREN1, and the story wasn't as "tight", but it had the most expansive gameplay, largest levels, an actual difficulty scale (easy/normal/hard), very interesting characters and backstories, etc. A phenomenal horror game overall.

Only problems are, again, the shitty voice acting on the European/English version, and the fact that it never came to the US, only Europe.

- - - - -

SIREN: New Translation (aka "Blood Curse" in the US) was basically a remake of the first SIREN, but with mostly American characters, and not nearly as complicated (or deep) story, characters or gameplay: In other words, the SIREN New Translation devs were basically going for the experience of the American-remade Japanese Horror flick (ala Ring, Grudge, etc). The graphics are awesome, and some of the scary bits are *really fucking scary*, and most mercifully of all the game is not anywhere as difficult as the first SIREN. Also, they did a phenomenal job with the depth of the "Archive Items". But it still felt lacking in places, and yeah that bit Yahzee says about it giving you the illusion that you have limitless control when in fact there's only One Solution to many problems... that sucks. I was running to GameFAQS every few hours in some places.

The story is great in some places, and a lot of WTF in others, and a confusing ending which only reading the Archive Items will help understand fully (involves time travel, curses, etc).

Still, I got the "Asian Version" on eBay, which is basically all the episodes compiled on one disk (they sold it in Blu-Ray over in Asia, with menus in both English and Japanese), and it's a solid horror game IMO.

I hope they eventually remake SIREN 2 as well, as that was a phenomenal game, but in all honestly I'd just as soon see it with all the original J-voice acting, English menus, and slightly tuned graphics (it was already graphically really impressive).

-Andy

[Andy K]

Oh, two additional bits:

The Siren: New Translation soundtrack, if you can find it, is some of the creepiest fucking music ever made. Check it out if you like that sort of thing.

My biggest disappointment with Siren: New Translation was that while in some areas it felt like a "Siren" game, in other ways it totally didn't. For example, for a Silent Hill game you should have:
* The town of Silent Hill.
* Lots of fog.
* An alternate Hell-World of metal, rot and blood.
* Basic fighting mechanics, nothing special. And boss fights.
Then from there, you can say "must have emo main character", "must have crowbar", "must have Pyramid-Head", etc. But the top few things kinda have to be there to call it a "real" SH game, right?

Well, the things IMO to make a game call itself SIREN are the following:
* Either all sneaking, or at least much more sneaking than fighting.
* Sight-jacking, and sight-jacking strategy.
* Archive Items, all of which are detailed, many of them "usable", all of which flesh out the detail of the world.
* Real (as in "for real, real") human faces superimposed on the computer models of the main characters in the game.
* A confusing, non-linear timeline (like Tanrrantino movies) with some "redos", to unlock other stories.

These were all in the first two games.
SIREN: The New Translation has all the above EXCEPT for the last. Because it was very episodic, it was also extremely linear: 12 episodes, each episode having 1-2 action sequences. You can unlock archive items and the like, but you didn't unlock future areas by doing something in a previous level.

For example, a prominent feature in the series is "the time grid": A timeline table where the rows represent hours in the day, and the columns represent characters. Using this time grid, you choose which level/stage you want to play. Sometimes you would start on "Day 2: 8:00AM" with one character, then the next stage be on "Day 1: 5:00PM" with another character. Usually there are three days or so over the course of the game, and a cast of about 8-10 playable characters, each with several playable levels. So you really get to see one horror incident from the eyes of several characters.

You can see what the Time Grid looks like at the beginning of this video (and quickly what an "unlock" entails):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG844j9Na2o

Well, basically in the game you will hit "dead ends", that is, you play all the available stages to completion (in most cases, simply normally completing one stage means that you unlock the next stage, but eventually that stops being the case). Then you have to ga back to previous stages to figure out what you have to do. Luckily, in all cases you can tell WHICH stages have unlockables which will lead to new stages, you simply have to explore the stage to figure out exactly what that unlockable is.

For example, in one stage you might have to go off the beaten path for a minute, and bash open this lock on a gate. You don't actually open the gate or pass through it, you simply smash that lock. Then you are told that "You have unlocked Character X's Stage: Day Two Hours 11-2". You back out, go to the new stage, and realize that this character had to go through this gate: They couldn't before because it was locked, but they can now since it is open.

Other times you have to defeat specific monsters, rig up devices, dig holes, explore deep areas of the level, pull levers or switches, turn on/off lights, make specific phone calls, etc.

This timeline was really cool, because it made the game into a giant jigsaw puzzle: Sort of nonsensical at first, but the more you play the more the pieces fall together, until the end when you realize exactly what is going on, all the twists are revealed, and so on.

Unfortunately, since the new SIREN was really episodic, it doesn't have this timeline element that the other games had. To me, that was really disappointing. It's like playing a Silent Hill game with no Hell-World, basically. The graphics and tighter story made up for it in places, but still... Oh well.

-Andy

[Naxuul]

In other words, the SIREN New Translation devs were basically going for the experience of the American-remade Japanese Horror flick (ala Ring, Grudge, etc).
If it was trying to be like The Ring compared to Ringu it would be a tighter story with greater pathos and proactive protagonists compared to a original where psychic visions lead people by the nose while nothing much happens until a really scary finale.;)

-Naxuul

[Coyote's Own]

This week: Assult on Vinegar (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/714-The-Chronicles-of-Riddick-Assault-on-Dark-Athena)

[PTiKachu]

Hey, it sounds like he almost liked it!

[Killfalcon]

Hey, it sounds like he almost liked it!

I think he liked the first game.

[martikhoras]

Valkyria Chronicles (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/724-Valkyria-Chronicles)

Okay. Between this and Nostalgia Critic's "Who's this Mako and why am I being attacked for making fun of his voice with a throat cancer joke" and Yahtzee's digging on this, and Game OverThinker's creepiness I'm losing my faith in internet nerd critics.

Issue I have...I think most of his complaints are "its not like a PC game in structure, layout, features, etc." I am glad he's come to like RTSes just... EVERYONE has been complementing Valkyria Chronicles. I saw a demo played. But its also clear his preferences from before the great gaming singularity (which okay I need to thank Microsoft for enabling the best of PC gaming coming to consoles opening up my worldview and allowing me to stop waiting for a complex RPG-esque game with guns and just go get Bioshock/System Shock 2). I still overassociate PC games with the FPS, which I loathe and despise and dull and overhyped and clones. So whenever I see one praised or see a major lan party game or feature touted I feel more left out than anything and dislike it. Seeing him treat rpgs the same way is insightful for myself. Not much control complaints. And it is spurring me to consider "okay not like characterization in JRPGs what's some characterization and in which games has he enjoyed." I thus recall it and think that's something to broaden my horizons.

Still it seems his mind is pretty made up on stuff that, well, isn't an outgrowth of what he respects. That's good but its also disappointing as the features of Valkyria Chronicles I've heard of feel a little summarized, though admittedly for a good reason.

[Random Nerd]

I don't know. Those sounded like fair criticisms. If he's factually incorrect, or if he failed to mention that the game directly stimulates the pleasure center of your brain, then I can see your point, but less so otherwise.

[KreenWarrior]

Valkyria Chronicles (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/724-Valkyria-Chronicles)

Okay. Between this and Nostalgia Critic's "Who's this Mako and why am I being attacked for making fun of his voice with a throat cancer joke" and Yahtzee's digging on this, and Game OverThinker's creepiness I'm losing my faith in internet nerd critics.

Issue I have...I think most of his complaints are "its not like a PC game in structure, layout, features, etc." I am glad he's come to like RTSes just... EVERYONE has been complementing Valkyria Chronicles. I saw a demo played. But its also clear his preferences from before the great gaming singularity (which okay I need to thank Microsoft for enabling the best of PC gaming coming to consoles opening up my worldview and allowing me to stop waiting for a complex RPG-esque game with guns and just go get Bioshock/System Shock 2). I still overassociate PC games with the FPS, which I loathe and despise and dull and overhyped and clones. So whenever I see one praised or see a major lan party game or feature touted I feel more left out than anything and dislike it. Seeing him treat rpgs the same way is insightful for myself. Not much control complaints. And it is spurring me to consider "okay not like characterization in JRPGs what's some characterization and in which games has he enjoyed." I thus recall it and think that's something to broaden my horizons.

Still it seems his mind is pretty made up on stuff that, well, isn't an outgrowth of what he respects. That's good but its also disappointing as the features of Valkyria Chronicles I've heard of feel a little summarized, though admittedly for a good reason.
This is what bugs me about Yahtzee more and more. Apparently the only genres of games he actually likes are FPS's and 3rd person beat-em-ups (and he doesn't even really like those).

[braincraft]

EVERYONE has been complementing Valkyria Chronicles.

Ahem.

[Maninblue]

A lot of his points were fairly valid, but like the SSBB review I can sit back and say 'yup, those are all problems with it... but I enjoy it anyway'.

The menu (and art) give it a fairly unique style and its a good one, but I still find it an annoying delay to go back and forth to the HQ menu from any other menu. Likewise the whole 'third person shooter' element falls down if you try to give it non-turn-based logic and the weapon upgrades are largely irrelevant between the (c. three) different lines when its easier just to run up close and shoot them in the face.

I think what he did wrong was to approach it from the ranty angle of his usual assault on JRPG. This sets the tone as harsh and leads one to miss the bits where he does give grudging praise to the gameplay.
Would have liked to see a comment about the art, though.

[nonsense]

That was both funny and accurate. And I like the game fine.

[ezekielreigns]

I also got the vibe that he didn't play that long. After the first couple upgrades the weapons branch out into at least three choices for most weapons.

[fearthehat]

Hmmm... I know it's Yahtzee's job to be scathing about every game he reviews, but usually his criticisms are fairly valid. In this review it seems like he either missed the point of the game entirely or deliberately ignored its good points to take cheap shots at it.

I mean, he trots out the old "androgynous character design" insult again, despite the fact that the game's characters are actually fairly realistic, anatomy wise. And why exactly is he panning the game for not including autosave? As anyone who has played a Fire Emblem game will tell you, autosaving in turn based strategies only works if you want to make the game harder and more frustrating. It's not like you can't manually save whenever you want anyway...

Not to mention that some of his comments are flat out incorrect. His comment about guns only being upgradable in one direction shows the weaknesses in his "don't finish games I don't like" review method... couldn't he have taken two minutes to look up the details on GameFAQs?

[David J Prokopetz]

Hmmm... I know it's Yahtzee's job to be scathing about every game he reviews, but usually his criticisms are fairly valid. In this review it seems like he either missed the point of the game entirely or deliberately ignored its good points to take cheap shots at it.I do tend to prefer his reviews of American games, yeah. When it comes to Japanese titles, a lot of his material comes down to busting on general stereotypes about Japanese games that may or may not apply to the title he's actually addressing - he often criticises elements that just plain aren't present in the game he's talking about.

[Asmodai]

This is what bugs me about Yahtzee more and more. Apparently the only genres of games he actually likes are FPS's and 3rd person beat-em-ups (and he doesn't even really like those).

And adventure games I think, not that as if that's really relevant this decade anyway.

[weasel fierce]

I do tend to prefer his reviews of American games, yeah. When it comes to Japanese titles, a lot of his material comes down to busting on general stereotypes about Japanese games that may or may not apply to the title he's actually addressing - he often criticises elements that just plain aren't present in the game he's talking about.

I thought it was pretty well spread between japanese games in general, and what applied to this game specifically.

This wasn't really much of a negative review though. He even admits to having fun with the tactics (something i didnt expect, given its turn based and he's ragged on that before)

[Count_Zero]

I do tend to prefer his reviews of American games, yeah. When it comes to Japanese titles, a lot of his material comes down to busting on general stereotypes about Japanese games that may or may not apply to the title he's actually addressing - he often criticises elements that just plain aren't present in the game he's talking about.

Likewise. As a general rule of thumb, I avoid his reviews of JRPGs, because I know he's going to, for example, bring out the "is that a guy or a girl" cliche. Now, if he's talking about Magna Carta, I can't argue with him. If he's talking about, say, Final Fantasy, Persona, or Dragon Quest, I'm going to call him on his bullshit. His review of World Ends With You is really what did it for me. I even avoided the episode of Unskippable he did because they were doing the intro to Star Ocean, because I figured he was going to do the same really dumb jokes again.

[Krzyzewski Man]

Anime is measurably more androgynous in general than most art. Yes, pretty much all of it. Most of the people in this thread are just used to it (myself included).

[Darting Flea]

And why exactly is he panning the game for not including autosave? As anyone who has played a Fire Emblem game will tell you, autosaving in turn based strategies only works if you want to make the game harder and more frustrating. It's not like you can't manually save whenever you want anyway...

I'm not sure but I get the impression that your talking as if it is one or the other. When in my experience Auto Saving is mother fucking awesome when combined with manual saves, especially in turn based strategy games (although I have no idea about Japanese equivelent, but I can't imagine it would be any different).

Manualy saving is cool, but it does force you to break the flow to save the game, and thus punishes you for getting too immersed. Auto-saving is rather convenient but incredibly inconvenient when that is all you have. By themselves they are a little iffy bu togeather they combine to provide an uber saving system, not punishing you for getting immersed but allowing you to quit whenever you wan't without losing progress.


As for teh review, I have never played VC but alot of his points are fairly valid as far as I can tell. The anti-JRPG stuff was kept rather slim and the bulk of seemed to be on valid gameplay floors.

[David J Prokopetz]

Anime is measurably more androgynous in general than most art. Yes, pretty much all of it. Most of the people in this thread are just used to it (myself included).It's definitely more androgynous than Western cartooning, yeah, but that's partly a function of the fact that Western cartooning tends to exaggerate sexual dimorphism to a ridiculous degree. I caught an American Saturday morning cartoon last weekend - something about the Justice League, I think - and noted that the male characters' biceps were thicker than the female characters' waists.

[martikhoras]

This is what bugs me about Yahtzee more and more. Apparently the only genres of games he actually likes are FPS's and 3rd person beat-em-ups (and he doesn't even really like those).
I disagree. Its more he likes the designs and features of PC games. And not exclusively. And yes I get the negative emphasis and YES I know some of this is just "ah my poor POOR genre was hurt I'm upset" but some of it is

"Uhm I've heard VC touted as one of the most character filled and evocative games that neither overloads on backstory nor is too thin with the characters with each having interesting interactions."

His complaint about the combat scheme as with his semi aside in FO3 can be summed up "I am a PC-gaming veteran, thus expect this, this, and it is thus silly in the extreme to me to not sight and shoot a target with years of mouse interface accustomized skills and experiences. They are using guns wrong." See for a console RPG fan (like moi) integrating Mercenaries, FO3, OR VCs shooting system (though valid point on the limited cover though I'm inclined to no by it due to features I've known and liked on the game he omitted or seemed to have glossed over for another easy racy joke).

Taking potshots as america's WWII fetishization (which will result in more than just distinct artwork see TVtropes on this subject) which is something we do currently and mocking its presence games is valid and funny and topical (seriously is mocking historical myopia EVER not a good idea). Ditto gangsta rap culture posturing to sell merchandize (though not exactly breaking any newer ground than any four or so people at my old church) Japan were evil in WWII being directed at VC comes off with a slice of "dude that's kinda...douchey Its not like people name drop Britain with regards to african destitution or something, right?"

Oh and to be TOTALLY fair he's reviewed more JRPGs than I've played FPSes. Its not like he isn't trying, just I think some of it isn't just taking potshots at what is popular but this is a little *too* different from what he associates in games. Remember he gave both SMBG a good review and Brawl a very fair shake and attacked the Nintendo fanboyism in a way its been cruising for for a while now. Just ya know there is "here is the game, man it does silly things and here are a few jokes," and then we run into "You aren't a cat you never detect insects with your echolation or sleep upside down on walls."

Hey just out of curiousity, as an aside, how did Farcry 2 sidestep race allegations but RE5 got the brunt of it all?

[Breogan]

Hey just out of curiousity, as an aside, how did Farcry 2 sidestep race allegations but RE5 got the brunt of it all?

Farcry 2 enemies where human. RE5 enemies where ravenous murdering beasts.

Even if I actually saw criticism of Farcry 2 ("why do the protagonist have to be white?") it was kind of expected that the RE5 closeness to "black man is an animal" racist memes, innocent or not, had to spark flamewars.

[fearthehat]

I'm not sure but I get the impression that your talking as if it is one or the other. When in my experience Auto Saving is mother fucking awesome when combined with manual saves, especially in turn based strategy games (although I have no idea about Japanese equivelent, but I can't imagine it would be any different).

I'm not saying that there has to be one or the other - there are lots of games (Half Life 2 etc) that use both save systems effectively. Autosaving would be a terrible fit with VC, however, as you need the ability to roll back several turns if you make a strategic blunder and don't want to restart the whole mission. You wouldn't be able to do so if the game saved your progress every turn (well, I suppose it could make a separate save file at the start of every turn, but being able to save at the precise moment you want is a much better alternative).

I'd be interested to hear examples of turn-based strategy games that do manage to use autosaving well.


Manualy saving is cool, but it does force you to break the flow to save the game, and thus punishes you for getting too immersed.

I don't find that taking ten seconds to go into the save game menu breaks game flow or punishes immersion, but your mileage may vary...

As for teh review, I have never played VC but alot of his points are fairly valid as far as I can tell. The anti-JRPG stuff was kept rather slim and the bulk of seemed to be on valid gameplay floors.

I think if you had played the game (in my opinion you should, I think it's really good) you would see that most of his points are inaccurate. He makes statements that are flat-out incorrect (as pointed out in my previous post), unfairly attributes JRPG cliches to a game that makes an effort to not use them, distorts the game's storyline and characters and criticises it for not having features that one would only expect to find in a FPS or third person shooter.

[Stryke]

Yahtzee reviews a game I've not heard of called Velvet Assassin (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/739-Velvet-Assassin), but the last joke is great so there you go.

[Coyote's Own]

Yahtzee reviews a game I've not heard of called Velvet Assassin (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/739-Velvet-Assassin), but the last joke is great so there you go.

Without wtahcing it yet (I'm having some trouble loading it), I pedict Yahtzee will rip it a new one, since IIRC he really doesn't think that sneak'em up are fun.

Judging on the GT review it a decent Sneaker, with great atmosphere, so it should be god enough the scratch that itch until Thi4f comes along.

Edit: Does any one else have problems with the movie? It just doesn't want to load for me.

[martikhoras]

Call me when Alpha protocol or an espionage game comes out not just the MGS variants.

[Joey McGuffin]

Yahtzee reviews a game I've not heard of called Velvet Assassin (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/739-Velvet-Assassin), but the last joke is great so there you go.

The last joke IS great.

[Mr. Sanity]

Without wtahcing it yet (I'm having some trouble loading it), I pedict Yahtzee will rip it a new one, since IIRC he really doesn't think that sneak'em up are fun.

It would be more accurate to say that he dislikes sneakers that are inferior to the Thief games. So, the bar is very, very high, and most sneakers fail by a country mile at least.

[Sandstar1]

It would be more accurate to say that he dislikes sneakers that are inferior to the Thief games. So, the bar is very, very high, and most sneakers fail by a country mile at least.

Didn't he make a stealth game?

[d s addison]

Didn't he make a stealth game?

After a fashion.

But yeah, as Mr Sanity said, Yahtzee likes stealth gameplay. It's just he's continually disappointed by games never reaching the heights of the Thief games. Honestly, this is probably not that unusual a complaint amongst sneaker fans.

[DooM GazE]

Autosaving would be a terrible fit with VC, however, as you need the ability to roll back several turns if you make a strategic blunder and don't want to restart the whole mission.

Unless he means 'autosave the goddamned BOOK'S state.' - because I can agree with that.

[Cortani]

Farcry 2 enemies where human. RE5 enemies where ravenous murdering beasts.

Even if I actually saw criticism of Farcry 2 ("why do the protagonist have to be white?") it was kind of expected that the RE5 closeness to "black man is an animal" racist memes, innocent or not, had to spark flamewars.

While I realise I'm in the minority, my initial evaluation goes the other way around. To me, Farcry's premise sounds way more offensive.

Black people trade guns, extort and pillage.
vs
Black people get taken over by multi-tentacle aliens.

edit:
Regardless, looking at the games in context both make them relatively inoffensive - it's the imagery of white man gunning down black people in Africa that legitimately causes offense. Seeing as both games have that, the whole deal is still a mystery to me.

[Darting Flea]

I'm not saying that there has to be one or the other - there are lots of games (Half Life 2 etc) that use both save systems effectively.


.... but then we get:


wouldn't be able to do so if the game saved your progress every turn (well, I suppose it could make a separate save file at the start of every turn, but being able to save at the precise moment you want is a much better alternative).

So to reiterate. You have both.

Seriously I don't see the challenge here at all, it isn't a difficult problem to work around. For example you could use the old MS Word auto-save feature and save every 10 minutes. You could save every bunch of turns. You could have rolling auto saves where you 3-6 saves on rotation.

Add in the regular save at any point system and you have something that is flat out superior to haveing only one or teh other.


I don't find that taking ten seconds to go into the save game menu breaks game flow or punishes immersion, but your mileage may vary...

Well I already said I did, but mostly the point is that it punishes that high level immersion when such things as stopping and saving are not on your mind.

I think if you had played the game (in my opinion you should, I think it's really good) you would see that most of his points are inaccurate. He makes statements that are flat-out incorrect (as pointed out in my previous post), unfairly attributes JRPG cliches to a game that makes an effort to not use them, distorts the game's storyline and characters and criticises it for not having features that one would only expect to find in a FPS or third person shooter.

Yeah I actually read all the complaints before I watched the review and as I said those things that he got caught out on were his minor complaints and his JRPG jokes were kept suprisingly minimal.

[Cortani]

Brawl a very fair shake

"lose to someone randomly smashing buttons"

"Random."

"Button mashing. "

Gah.

His closing comment on incredibly low skill cap of the game completely unsold me on ever listening to ZP as anything but (bloody fantastic) entertainment.

Seriously, it's like the opposite of truth. Someone who has played brawl for a while is capable of taking on a nigh infinite tide of button mashers.

[Breogan]

While I realise I'm in the minority, my initial evaluation goes the other way around. To me, Farcry's premise sounds way more offensive.

Black people trade guns, extort and pillage.
vs
Black people get taken over by multi-tentacle aliens.



Well, the important part here is that the first is normal human behavior :-P

[Quasar]

Yahtzee reviews a game I've not heard of called Velvet Assassin (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/739-Velvet-Assassin), but the last joke is great so there you go.

The rest of it I found rather amusing too.

[Stryke]

IGN gave it 11/10

PC Gamer devoted not one but two entire months to the review

Edge actually gave it 9/10 causing every single copy to combust upon opening.

But this is the review that everyone has been waiting for...
Yahtzee reviews Duke Nukem Forever
(http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/748-Duke-Nukem-Forever)

[martikhoras]

That's his ideal game, huh? I mean the control interface bit threw me I thought he hated even the hint of a change in the basic set up. And he put it on a console too?...

Was the release of games that slow though or have people been spamming his mailbag?

[woodsmoke]

"Our lawyers have asked me to clarify that Duke Nukem Forever is NOT released and this was a clever joke review which in retrospect wasn't particularly clever"

[martikhoras]

I get the first tagline was a sorta "this is my overidealized game" dig. For instance starting off with the whole seemless super integration of several genres and of course the silly storylines and sidemissions.

[Killfalcon]

I get the first tagline was a sorta "this is my overidealized game" dig. For instance starting off with the whole seemless super integration of several genres and of course the silly storylines and sidemissions.

Nope.
He's describing a game that simply should not work, and saying it did, because 12 years of work should make something impossibly awesome.

Like how mario 64 was mind-boggling because it made platforming work in 3D. Except hyperboled out to stupidity. Because twelve years development time is implausibly stupid.

[woodsmoke]

Ah. Sarcasm Fail. :(

Edit: ...or not? :confused:

Curse you, intarwebz! Damn you and your deceptive text-based interface!

[Seroster]

Best review EVER! :)

[Cortani]

Best review EVER! :)

I'm inclined to agree. Yahtzee getting to write fun stuff without constraining himself to reality is apparently a recipe for delightful.

[Killfalcon]

Ah. Sarcasm Fail. :(

Edit: ...or not? :confused:

Curse you, intarwebz! Damn you and your deceptive text-based interface!

You shoulda gone with British at char gen.

[woodsmoke]

I totally should have. I demand a respec!

[The Architect]

Damn. Escapist is all fucked up and I can't watch ZP.