Pathfinder questions, no bashing please

[Sunsword]

Ok, I like 4E. I don't want this to be a bash on 4E or Pathfinder thread.

I've been playing & running 4E & our campaign is winding down & some of the group is looking at Pathfinder. I had reached a point where I didn't mind playing 3.5, but didn't want to run it anymore (my schedule was too busy).

I've looked it over & have recovered from a knee-jerk negative reaction to it. I actually feel kind of nostalgic about 3.5 already, but dig the changes to skill & "at-will" abilities of the spellcasters.

How does it play or run differently from 3.5?

And is it any more streamlined or straight forward than 3.5?

I don't care how it compares to 4E, I like 4E & I like what I see of Pathfinder. I just haven't played Pathfinder yet. I think my group can play both, YMMV of course.

Have the 2nd & 3d Adventure Paths held up to the same quality as Dungeon? And are they designed for specific character levels?

Thanks in advance.

[Master Of Desaster]

Well from what I understand from reading it take this approach to it:

If it is not a skill check or spellcasting procedure , start over again from scratch. In several ways it is somewhat a streamlined D20. How ever - as pointed out in several threads (over a month ago) - the big changes are details, details and details.

So whilst many names remain the same, what's beneath is different (that's especially true for many spells).

It removes some issues and grants new ones. But bug-fixing 3E seems to have to have these issues.

[smug]

Not an answer to your question, but here's some links of stuff that has been added or changed since the Beta release:

New rules for Barbarian, Paladin, Animal Companions: link (http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderRPG/general/archives/jasonCanYouPlease&page=1#8).

New feats: link (http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderRPG/announcements/announcementNewFeatsForPlaytesting) or link to pdf (http://prpg.ogrehut.com/feats.pdf).

You can also get the new magic items and prestige classes pdfs in the 'my downloads' section of your account information.

[DanMcS]

How does it play or run differently from 3.5?
And is it any more streamlined or straight forward than 3.5?

In play, it seems almost exactly the same as 3.5. Most of the differences are at character creation time- classes are slightly different, skills and feats are slightly different. What your characters actually do at game-time is very similar- attack, cast spells, use special abilities, roll skills, etc.

A number of the spells have been slightly tweaked.

The biggest change in combat seems to be the combat maneuver bonus, which replaces the rules for grappling, tripping, disarming, etc.

Honestly, it's just close enough to 3.5 to seem the same, but just different enough that a lot of the expertise you've built up with 3.5 is useless and you have to look up EVERYTHING until you get used to it again.

Sure, you know the rules for spell X cold, but have they changed? Better look it up. You have to reread all the feats, because they're mostly the same, but some are different. You have to reread all the skills, because they're mostly the same, but all are a little different. And so on.

If you were starting with Pathfinder and had never played 3.5, it would be roughly the same experience as learning to play 3.5. Learning to play Pathfinder after playing 3.5 has been a pain. On its own, it's a perfectly good, fun game, but 3.5-alike it is not.

[Sunsword]

Not an answer to your question, but here's some links of stuff that has been added or changed since the Beta release:

New rules for Barbarian, Paladin, Animal Companions: link (http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderRPG/general/archives/jasonCanYouPlease&page=1#8).

New feats: link (http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderRPG/announcements/announcementNewFeatsForPlaytesting) or link to pdf (http://prpg.ogrehut.com/feats.pdf).

You can also get the new magic items and prestige classes pdfs in the 'my downloads' section of your account information.

Thanks, I'd gotten everything but the Feats. If I have one complaint at the moment, its Paizo's boards. They should have some central area to post these "hot fixes".

[smug]

Thanks, I'd gotten everything but the Feats. If I have one complaint at the moment, its Paizo's boards. They should have some central area to post these "hot fixes".

I entirely agree. I have no idea why they haven't (I've seen it asked), as it wouldn't be that much effort.

[Sunsword]

Sure, you know the rules for spell X cold, but have they changed? Better look it up. You have to reread all the feats, because they're mostly the same, but some are different. You have to reread all the skills, because they're mostly the same, but all are a little different. And so on.

If you were starting with Pathfinder and had never played 3.5, it would be roughly the same experience as learning to play 3.5. Learning to play Pathfinder after playing 3.5 has been a pain. On its own, it's a perfectly good, fun game, but 3.5-alike it is not.

Thats probably my biggest concern. Its rooted in the reason our group didn't switch from HERO to Tri-Stat or M&M permanently for Supers Games. The latter 2 were just as good, but why learn something new thats just as good?

Does the CMB work? Its a great idea, but reading grappling made my head swim still. Better, but not fixed.

[DanMcS]

Does the CMB work? Its a great idea, but reading grappling made my head swim still. Better, but not fixed.

Sure, it works. It's just yet another target number. I think the advantage is, if you learn it once, it applies for ALL combat tricks. Rather than having to learn trip, disarm, grapple, bull rush, etc, you know basically how they all work- roll vs your opponent's CMB total.