[L4D] I am filled with Rage

[Professor Phobos]

Get a mic.

Do not "scout ahead." You are just making yourself a more distant victim in need of rescue.

If you want to take a quick detour to check for items, say "I am taking a quick detour."

Do not start a crescendo event until everyone is ready.

Do not double back to get that smoker you spotted.

In fact, do not leave the group under any circumstances for any reason.

Don't toss a molotov unless you have to. If you're surrounded and in reasonably good health, just toss it at your feet like a real man.

Hunters? Set yourself on fire.

Boomers? Spawn ahead.

Infected in general? You need to actually work together. That 2-point, 2-slash pounce you just inflicted on a single survivor in a group of greens by yourself? All you accomplished was losing 15-26 seconds of time.

If I am huntered or smokered, the most appropriate time to rescue me is "immediately" not any time after that.

Keep up. If you're slowed by zombies, say "I am slowed by zombies."

Do not abandon slower teammates. Check behind you. Have situational awareness.

Stop shooting the fucking boomer you fucking morons.

And the tank? Shoot the tank. A lot. Stick together, shoot the tank. Don't try to get anyone up just keep shooting the tank.

If you're new, say you're new. Otherwise, know the goddamn levels.

Gah. I just rage-uninstalled this game because my frustration meter peaked.

[Skinner's Pigeon]

Get a mic.

No. I have no desire to pay good money just to hear people like you whine in my ear just because I can't read your mind.

But I don't own Left 4 Dead. It's actually sentiment like yours that keeps me away from any current online games. People raging over a leisure activity.

EDIT: I don't have a problem with you personally, Professor. You just touched a nerve. And this is a rage thread. :p

[TygerTyger]

No. I have no desire to pay good money just to hear people like you whine in my ear just because I can't read your mind.

Not having a mic doesn't prevent you from receiving voice chat, only transmitting. That means you have to type to communicate a lot of things, which is problematic in a game that uses the keyboard for other functions and has such a hectic pace.

Just FYI.

[Professor Phobos]

No. I have no desire to pay good money just to hear people like you whine in my ear just because I can't read your mind.

But I don't own Left 4 Dead. It's actually sentiment like yours that keeps me away from any current online games. People raging over a leisure activity.

Eh. A decent mic is like 15 bucks. Is it too much to ask that a game about teamwork people actually try to work as a team?

And the whole point of getting a mic is to compensate for the "can't read minds" element!

And you know what makes this particular leisure activity fun? This cooperative game? Cooperation! That is what makes it fun! When people don't cooperate, it stops being fun.

[Keefe the Thief]

What makes it fun is not needing to have your personal effectiveness measured by other people. Your attitude is why i dont like to play with strangers over the internet: telling me how and how good i should play is ten kinds of annoying. No thanks.

[Davidsonshdw]

Most of the stuff on Phobos' list are basic "wow, you're going to die and so is everyone else in your group trying to save you" stuff, though.

Like the splitting up thing. If you split up in Left 4 Dead, some Hunter or Smoker will get you and knock you out - if not out right kill you - before help arrives.

[Calliope]

What makes it fun is not needing to have your personal effectiveness measured by other people. Your attitude is why i dont like to play with strangers over the internet: telling me how and how good i should play is ten kinds of annoying. No thanks.

Like Davidsonshdw said, these are pretty basic, common-sense things. A couple of them may be tactics that would take a while to pick up on, but stuff like "do not wander away from the group" and "do not start a crescendo event until everyone is ready" are pretty much common courtesy. It's not about "measuring your effectiveness" or "telling you how 'good' you should play". It's about not completely screwing over everyone else on your team.

A similar situation would be if you had some kind of athletic team, only one guy on the team always just stood there, not doing anything. If you passed the ball to him, he wouldn't even make an effort to get it. He'd wander all over the place, not really paying attention to the game, or at best doing his own thing with no regard for the rest of his teammates.

If someone did that, he'd be rightly criticized. What Phobos is talking about is (mostly) not stuff that's skill-related. It's common sense and basic teamwork, and unless you're on a team that really doesn't care whether it wins or not, chances are your teammates aren't going to have much fun if you ignore that kind of basic stuff.

EDIT: It's also worth mentioning that Left 4 Dead is an exceptionally teamwork-heavy game. This isn't something like Counterstrike, where one star player can probably make up for a couple of weak ones, or where one guy can basically carry the team. If everyone isn't contributing meaningfully, you will lose very quickly.

[Ugly Man]

In most online games, having a teammate who jumps in the nearest vehicle purely to ramp off of things and takes the sniper rifle only to blow all the ammo on a nearby rock is a hindrance, but nothing more. Hell, you might not even notice they are there until you check the scoresheet.

In Left 4 Dead, having a teammate who likes shooting indriscriminately or refuses to share his medpack will get everyone killed and a game over. I tried playing Left 4 Dead over Live. I even got a reasonably good game going for a while occasionally. Then someone named 53pfir0th or Leegolass would join, shoot someone in the back of the head and then go cross country, getting us all killed. The game ceases to be fun for anyone when that happens.

Versus will almost always have some tool who starts killing other survivors because he wants to be a zombie, so that is even worse.

[Beri]

Yeah, I think I'd quit if I started having someone yelling this stuff in my ear. That's why I don't play with a mic, even though I have three plugged into the computer. I don't want to have to be babbling at my PC all the time, and I don't wanna hear you shouting at me. All of my most annoying L4D stories involve people who think they're such huge experts on the game that they ruin everyone else's fun.
Your homework is to play on Easy until you remember what a game is.

[Murazor]

I can agree on most of what you say, but...


And the tank? Shoot the tank. A lot. Stick together, shoot the tank. Don't try to get anyone up just keep shooting the tank.


No.

Set the tank on fire, then RUN!

Shooting it is second priority.
Helping people up is third, but worthwile if you have time and/or the tank is distracted.

[Calliope]

Yeah, I think I'd quit if I started having someone yelling this stuff in my ear. That's why I don't play with a mic, even though I have three plugged into the computer. I don't want to have to be babbling at my PC all the time, and I don't wanna hear you shouting at me.


That's fine, but if you can reliably beat the various levels on the hardest difficulty level without anyone on your team using voice chat, I'd be genuinely impressed.


All of my most annoying L4D stories involve people who think they're such huge experts on the game that they ruin everyone else's fun.

Obviously, that's bad too. I strongly doubt that's the case here. It may be a case of differing expectations; some people would like to work as part of a cohesive team, while other people might just want to screw around. The two are not destined to mix well. In that regard, it's like Warcraft raids; if you have people who want to actually beat the raid, you've pretty much got to have everyone playing smart and operating as a team. People get justifiably frustrated when someone starts acting like a moron and, in the eyes of a lot of the other players, ends up wasting their time.


Your homework is to play on Easy until you remember what a game is.

This is...needlessly dismissive and seems to miss the point entirely.

[Beri]

That's fine, but if you can reliably beat the various levels on the hardest difficulty level without anyone on your team using voice chat, I'd be genuinely impressed.
Be genuinely impressed then, 'cause I do regular Expert runs without voice chat. I find that voice actually degrades the teamwork in L4D, at least in pick-up play. I think it's a natural human instinct - when you speak, you expect that someone will listen. So I usually end up with several players shouting into the mic and running off in different directions because they're all experts and 2 l33t at the game. I'd rather have a team that's silent, because they don't need to talk - they understand lines, cover, and movement, and they're not constantly coming up with half-baked plans that they need to ramble off into their mic.


This is...needlessly dismissive and seems to miss the point entirely.

While it is needlessly dismissive, it's directly addressing the point. The OP said that he rage-uninstalled his game out of frustration. That doesn't sound like fun, and I play games to have fun. If he's not having a good experience beating his head against the highest difficulty levels, he needs to swallow his pride and move down a difficulty until he remembers how to have fun with the game.
Somehow playing video games on Normal or Easy has become some kind of badge of shame, and thus I see people beating their heads against Hard or Ultra Hard modes, instead of playing the game on a reasonable difficulty and enjoying themselves.

[Reeze]

Hunters? Set yourself on fire.



How effective is that actually? Nto meaning anything, but it just dosent seem like the best tactic to me - am i missing something?

[Murazor]

Somehow playing video games on Normal or Easy has become some kind of badge of shame, and thus I see people beating their heads against Hard or Ultra Hard modes, instead of playing the game on a reasonable difficulty and enjoying themselves.

Yes... I've been playing mainly with 3 local friends, and mostly on Expert Difficulty. It's a good, tough challenge for the main chapters, but playing the Finale chapters on Expert is just fail and frustration. The last few times I've played we've given the Finale one shot at Expert, but then gone down to Advanced. It's much more satisfying to be able to finish rather than banging our heads against the wall until we're all worn out and defeated...

[eatspider]

What makes it fun is not needing to have your personal effectiveness measured by other people. Your attitude is why i dont like to play with strangers over the internet: telling me how and how good i should play is ten kinds of annoying. No thanks.

That's not being very good, that's fine. Not everyone can be a gaming genius.Then there's not even trying! This is very annoying for your team mates.

[Jonas Albrecht]

If you're not willing to take orders, are extremely sensitive to getting yelled at, or are incapable of getting over yourself, don't play a game that requires teamwork.

[Davidsonshdw]

How effective is that actually? Nto meaning anything, but it just dosent seem like the best tactic to me - am i missing something?

Doubles your damage.

EDIT: And one of the more common problems in L4D is "guy who thinks he knows everything but doesn't", who is generally also "guy who runs off from the team to do something l33t and gets everyone killed".

[Juriel]

Man... What a downer the Prof seems to be. Lighten up, learn to enjoy the drama of getting murderized because your teammates keep wandering apart. :p

Oh yeah, you can co-operate just fine without communication. I see people doing it on XBox Live all the time, and they all have mics available.

[YorkusRex]

If you're not willing to take orders, are extremely sensitive to getting yelled at, or are incapable of getting over yourself, don't play a game that requires teamwork.

Exactly.

It's even more important in L4D because the game doesn't just require teamwork; it punishes a lack of teamwork. It punishes it up real good. And then it sits back and laughs at the misery.*

Hell, sometimes it even punishes good teamwork.

L4D isn't a game for erratic mavericks.



*I'm surprised that the game doesn't have a feature so that the AI Director can email/PM you after a match with a "Har, har j00 sux n00bz". The XBL version could even attach a grainy picture of some dude's junk to make the experience more real.

[Acrozatarim]

I've literally just started L4D, and some friends and I were able to cut through one of the campaigns at a fairly high difficulty level without too many problems. Them having teamspeak was useful at points, but mostly not very relevant.

We just got cut to pieces on a high difficulty quite far into one of the campaigns, but that was more due to them having disconnection problems than me not having TS :)

[Qooroo]

While I think some of the Professor's comments apply more to higher difficulties of play, I'm totally on board with the ones that essentially amount to 'be a team player.' As was pointed out upthread, L4D isn't just a game that benefits from teamwork, it's a game specifically designed thus that failure to meet certain minimal standards of teamwork will screw you over really badly. A lot of the things he suggested are essentially common sense, as long as you're actually treating the game like a team game.

[Professor Phobos]

If he's not having a good experience beating his head against the highest difficulty levels, he needs to swallow his pride and move down a difficulty until he remembers how to have fun with the game.

Dude, I'm not talking about Expert, I'm talking about Versus. Expert has lost most of its attraction- it's pretty easy, at this point, for me and the people I usually play with.

How effective is that actually? Nto meaning anything, but it just dosent seem like the best tactic to me - am i missing something?

It roughly doubles your damage. The Holy Grail of the Hunter is of course the 25-point flaming pounce, but there are only a few places that can work. Even a regular no-damage pounce can be worthwhile if you're on fire, particularly if you can get a few good swipes in.

Anyway, as for the "don't tell others how to play" crowd- to heck with you guys. Most of my list is basically just "I'm going to grief my team now" behavior. Maybe a couple of things are just nitpicks of mine, but you know what? L4D is a team game. Be willing to work as part of a team or don't play L4D.

I understand being annoyed at some bossy jerk telling everyone what to do, and I try not to be that guy and I don't think I am. But if some idiot wanders off in the wrong direction, I will say "Hey man where are you going? Come back!"

I don't care about your personal skill. I can literally not land a Hunter pounce to save my life even with everything going for me- good ping, stationary target, etc. Personal skill can help a little with L4D, but it isn't about Counterstrike level reflexes- the key factor in L4D is teamwork. And that's a social-contract thing. If you're just trying to screw around, play it on single player or with your friends. If you're joining a game of versus, play it for real out of courtesy to your own team and to the other team. It's no fun being ground into the dirt because "shooting an alarmed car is hilarious" and it's usually no fun to just grind another team into the dust. (Well, actually that can be fun, but less fun than a real, close game)

Part of it is this game brings out a competitive spirit I didn't even realize I had, so perhaps I'm not particularly adroit at controlling the frustration meter involved.

EDIT: And you know what? If you're new to the game, all I am asking you to do is tell us and then listen to our wisdom. It's fine to be new. Everyone is new at some point.

[Beri]

Dude, I'm not talking about Expert, I'm talking about Versus. Expert has lost most of its attraction- it's pretty easy, at this point, for me and the people I usually play with.

Oh, sorry. I don't play Halo.

[Cthulhu-chan]

Oh yeah, you can co-operate just fine without communication. I see people doing it on XBox Live all the time, and they all have mics available.

In my experience, this is true. The characters *generally* do enough speaking in terms of calling out items and threats that it's really only up to the players to watch one anothers' backs, keep in a close group, and be extremely aware of their surroundings.

That isn't to say that voice communication is useless -- it can be great to suggest things like making a stand in the kid's room at the end of Blood Harvest or checking to see that everyone is ready before triggering a crescendo event... but in my moderate play experience it's never really been a game breaker either way. Not in the same way that it could potentially be in something like TF2.

Also worth noting is that the keyboard communication commands on the PC side are fairly robust and easy to use. :)

The rest of the OP's points, though, are pretty solid. I don't think everyone who initially picks up the game 'gets' the idea right away, and some newer players tend to play it like a standard FPS, but that's part of the learning curve, IMO. For those of us who don't eat, sleep, and breathe this sort of thing, anyway. :)

[Eurhetemec]

I'll get a mic when you fuckers (people in general) stop somehow joining my Friends-only games when one of my friends goes LD for a couple of minutes. I'm really confused as how random strangers are allowed to join a "friends-only" game, but there you go.

Honestly though, if the OP is "rage-uninstalling" a game because new people didn't say they were new (that's kind of a meta-issue in the first place - I'm sure perceptions vary, and how can you even know if you count as "new"?), then he's probably not much fun to play with.

[Calliope]

Honestly though, if the OP is "rage-uninstalling" a game because new people didn't say they were new (that's kind of a meta-issue in the first place - I'm sure perceptions vary, and how can you even know if you count as "new"?), then he's probably not much fun to play with.

I think reducing things down to that single point, when his list was a lot more extensive and contained a lot of obvious things, is pretty unfair and dishonest.

[Professor Phobos]

Oh, sorry. I don't play Halo.

Hur hurr hur, you're fucking clever you are. I guess I'll go drink some beer with my fraternity brothers, then?

EDIT: Oh, and I forgot to advocate in the strongest manner possible in my OP that all dead opponents should be teabagged repeatedly. Because that is exactly the kind of game behavior I'm talking about as desirable!

[YorkusRex]

I think reducing things down to that single point, when his list was a lot more extensive and contained a lot of obvious things, is pretty unfair and dishonest.

This.

Some of you don't want to get lectured and want to play a relaxing game. That's cool but only if you are playing with people who have the same goal. Someone mentioned that they only play with friends to avoid the "serious" players. Good job. I only play with friends because I don't want random jackaninnys screwing around and ruining my enjoyment of the game. These are the people that grab sniper rifles and can't aim; that hog health when their health is full, that run off and trigger encounters while everyone else is reloading or healing. I don't mind if your skill level is low; mine is pretty low too. However, it's wasting my time if you are just on to screw around or deliberately grief our game.

My free time is limited and precious to me. Fuck around on your dime.

Just this weekend, I was playing Burnout Paradise in Freeburn mode with a couple of friends. The host left it open for people to join so we could do Challenges (race to point X, perform X jumps, etc.) with multiple players. Numerous times people would join with no intention of performing challenges. Even simple ones. They would just fuck around until people would get bored and leave which generally cancels the challenge. Thanks, dicks.

[YorkusRex]

EDIT: Oh, and I forgot to advocate in the strongest manner possible in my OP that all dead opponents should be teabagged repeatedly. Because that is exactly the kind of game behavior I'm talking about as desirable!

If you don't teabag the Tank, you are doing it wrong. It lets the Director know that it's not as tough as it thinks it is right before it kills the party.

[Professor Phobos]

It's important to note I don't actually lecture people in game. But apparently speaking to a hypothetical, vaguely defined and absent "Other" on RPG.net indicates that all I do is shout "You fucking suck, n00bs!" over and over again.

[DanB]

It's important to note I don't actually lecture people in game. But apparently speaking to a hypothetical, vaguely defined and absent "Other" on RPG.net indicates that all I do is shout "You fucking suck, n00bs!" over and over again.

Yeah. You know, doing that is really inappropriate during the Hunter game. I was gonna say something.

[Professor Phobos]

Yeah. You know, doing that is really inappropriate during the Hunter game. I was gonna say something.

Dude, if you would just stop being such a fucking n00b, I'd stop asking you to.

[Rutherford]

It's important to note I don't actually lecture people in game. But apparently speaking to a hypothetical, vaguely defined and absent "Other" on RPG.net indicates that all I do is shout "You fucking suck, n00bs!" over and over again.

I read threads like this in order to flesh out my ignore list. :D

[Eurhetemec]

This.

Some of you don't want to get lectured and want to play a relaxing game. That's cool but only if you are playing with people who have the same goal. Someone mentioned that they only play with friends to avoid the "serious" players. Good job. I only play with friends because I don't want random jackaninnys screwing around and ruining my enjoyment of the game. These are the people that grab sniper rifles and can't aim; that hog health when their health is full, that run off and trigger encounters while everyone else is reloading or healing. I don't mind if your skill level is low; mine is pretty low too. However, it's wasting my time if you are just on to screw around or deliberately grief our game.

My free time is limited and precious to me. Fuck around on your dime.

I think you're trying to have your cake and eat it, here.

There is literally no way for you to tell the difference between someone who is trying their best and not meeting your standards, and someone who is intentionally fucking around, unless they're definitely doing the latter in an extremely obvious way. I mean just look at your own example "Grabs the sniper rifle and can't aim" - I mean, can you really type that with a straight face? Really? Do you honestly think that they are doing that to "fuck around" or "grief" you? I mean, wow, talk about solipsism. You claim you "don't mind if their skill level is low", but most of the things you're describing can be the product of either assholism OR a low skill level OR just accidentally fucking up.

This is particularly irritating to me, because every single time, without exception, that I've made a friends-only game in L4D, if one of my friends has gone LD, or logged off or a few mins to make tea or something, some random jerk has joined us, and it's been clear, in every case, that they're TOTALLY STRESSING OUT over us not playing it ultra-hardcore. Some are more polite than others, but like, guys, fucking get a grip. Even when you're not lecturing people or utterly spoiling the level (in a game to which you have not been invited), your stress is palpable, esp. on voice.

In the end, what you're saying cuts both ways. If you're going to have any kind of "rage-fit", like the OP, to the extent that you in all seriousness uninstall a game, you should not be playing with ANYONE that you don't know.

To a limited extent, I can empathise with your point - in games where I'm point-blank FORCED to play with every asshole in space (i.e. WoW's BG PvP) if I want to play at all, it can be irritating when they're just jerking off and not even trying - but that's not L4D. It's not "your dime" unless you're playing solely with friends. It's a mixture of people's dimes.

[YorkusRex]

I think you're trying to have your cake and eat it, here.

There is literally no way for you to tell the difference between someone who is trying their best and not meeting your standards, and someone who is intentionally fucking around, unless they're definitely doing the latter in an extremely obvious way. I mean just look at your own example "Grabs the sniper rifle and can't aim" - I mean, can you really type that with a straight face? Really? Do you honestly think that they are doing that to "fuck around" or "grief" you? I mean, wow, talk about solipsism. You claim you "don't mind if their skill level is low", but most of the things you're describing can be the product of either assholism OR a low skill level OR just accidentally fucking up.

The cake is a lie in case you hadn't heard that one.

Your reading of my post and the intent do not match up. If you were wearing your mic we could talk about it but I have to assume one of two things: I fucked up typing it or you just can't aim with the sniper rifle and refuse to admit it. Now it could very well be the former but if you would quit rushing the sniper rifle and maybe let a team mate have a go at it; say for instance one who could get one kill from a clip instead of using it to fire for effect; we could find out.

[Professor Phobos]

I certainly don't mind if someone's just not that good at all the finicky little reflex bits. I definitely don't mind if someone fucks up once in a while- I certainly do!

What I cannot stand, and drives me to periodic bouts of frustration, is continued, deliberate idiocy. And idiocy in L4D is all centered around rejecting the central premise of the game: Cooperation. I feel like people who refuse to connect with that basic, core element of gameplay are violating a social contract. It's like joining a [sport] and not even trying to contribute to the success of your team in [sport]. Like running off the field during a football game and trying to drown yourself in the gatorade.

[DanB]

Dude, if you would just stop being such a fucking n00b, I'd stop asking you to.

With all those ghosts teabagging me, can you blame me if I get distracted?

[Professor Phobos]

With all those ghosts teabagging me, can you blame me if I get distracted?

You know that was about the maturity level of our last ghost, now that I think about it...

[Spectrum]

I don't get what the hate-on is against Phobos. I've played with him in Versus. He's good peoples.

To most succinct way I can summarize it is thusly: While it's fine to 'play for fun' and to 'just enjoy things', please try to ensure that in doing so, you aren't drastically and unreasonably reducing the fun of the other people you are playing with. Ideally, this is accomplished by making sure everyone has the same goals going in. Sure, sometimes no matter what you do is going to piss off That One Guy, but more often than not in a Versus game, people want to beat the other team and tend not to have alot of tolerance for someone who wants to just explore the level or screw around with a new weapon.

[Professor Phobos]

I don't get what the hate-on is against Phobos. I've played with him in Versus. He's good peoples.

I was suppressing my every asshole instinct in that game. You know that half-second delay you had in getting me de-smokered? I was gonna start insulting your ancestry.

And when you shoot that boomer? Oh man, I was going to talk about shameful things I had done with your mother. Like, for example:

"Hey Spectrum, you n00b, I met up with your mother last night and we had a nice conversation over dinner! She really enjoyed it! YOU SUCK!"

This is how I normally play.

[BlakeT]

Just curious Professor ... do you play on the Xbox or PC? Personally I'd rather slit my wrists than play any kind of shooter, or almost anything, on Xbox Live these days. Good God no. :)

PC is where shooters are at anyway, give me my mouse! *personal preference here not picking on anyone who likes controllers*

EDIT after the fact. This was a stupid question ... rage-uninstall = PC not 360, duh. :)

[Spectrum]

I was suppressing my every asshole instinct in that game. You know that half-second delay you had in getting me de-smokered? I was gonna start insulting your ancestry.
That's okay. I had some unkind things to say about you when I was watching your Hunter bounce dance in the parking lot before the lift on NM3, but I suppressed them for the Greater Good. I took out my frustrations by being an all-star and singlehandedly being the reason we made them ragequit, so I think it worked out.

[AikiGhost]

No. I have no desire to pay good money just to hear people like you whine in my ear just because I can't read your mind.

But I don't own Left 4 Dead. It's actually sentiment like yours that keeps me away from any current online games. People raging over a leisure activity.


Seriously get a mic and L4D gaming experience of the year. have to say Ive been in enough crap groups that I agree with what the OP said.

To add: Please dial down the mic level so your speech doesnt sound like "MMDFFFHSHUUUFFF!!!! MMUFFERRENNNNGFFFF!! GUFFFF!!!! MNFFFF!!! MMMFGGGFFFFF" the whole bloody time :D

[AikiGhost]

I don't get what the hate-on is against Phobos. I've played with him in Versus. He's good peoples.


Overreaction is the lifeblood of the intarwebs.

[R-90-2]

I would like to add: If you're going to go for the Cr0wned achievement, do it on your own time.

[YorkusRex]

I would like to add: If you're going to go for the Cr0wned achievement, do it on your own time.


"There's a witch up ahead. Lights off everyone; we can..."
*BLAM* SCREEECH!!! killkillkillkillkillkill
"As I was saying we can move to the next closet and rescue Dave."

[Wraithstrike]

how do you do that anyway? I've tried shotguns, autoshotguns, sniper rifles and even the 5mm turret. I can't seem to headshot the witch.

[Random Nerd]

Make a burnt offering to the AI Director.

[YorkusRex]

how do you do that anyway? I've tried shotguns, autoshotguns, sniper rifles and even the 5mm turret. I can't seem to headshot the witch.

I've seen youtube videos that make it seem easy.

Step 1: Slowly creep up next to the witch with a shotgun, light off.
Step 2: Turn on the light to startle the witch.
Step 3: As she turns to face you and rise, shoot her in the base of the neck.

Sounds easy, right?

Here's how it plays out for me.

Step 1: Slowly creep up next to the witch with a shotgun, light off.
Step 2: Turn on the light to startle the witch.
Step 3: Die.


Supposedly the catch is you have to startle her and catch her before she stands and rips you to shreds. Sniping an unstartled witch from a distance won't work.

[Stupid Made Up Name]

how do you do that anyway? I've tried shotguns, autoshotguns, sniper rifles and even the 5mm turret. I can't seem to headshot the witch.The autoshotgun puts out, I think, ten pellets with each shot and you have hit a startled witch in the head with every pellet.

--
SMUN

[Professor Phobos]

I would like to add: If you're going to go for the Cr0wned achievement, do it on your own time.

Well, it depends- it is very tough to do on Expert, but easy on Versus and it's usually best to just neutralize the Witch as quickly as possible.

how do you do that anyway? I've tried shotguns, autoshotguns, sniper rifles and even the 5mm turret. I can't seem to headshot the witch.

Depends on the difficulty level. At Normal or lower, turn your light off, walk up to her with the autoshotgun, put the center of the crosshair between her eyes, wait for your aim to improve and gun her down as she's getting ready to kill you. I can manage this maybe 3/4 times on versus and it's even doable with the regular shotgun.

With the sniper rifle, aim right between her eyes at a reasonably close range- enough that she's getting irritated, but turn your light off so you have a little more time. Sometimes it will work, sometimes it won't.

[moondog548]

I've seen it done once and done it myself once by just creeping up behind her and auto-shotting to the back of the head (without startling).

I'm pretty sure it was on Normal (I'd never dream of trying it on Advanced or Expert!)

I think the problem with trying to do it without startling her is that her head bobs all over so you're just not going to hit her there. When she's charging straight at you though it's in a pretty straight line. :D

[mathey]

My sympathies.

Left 4 Dead with a lousy team is like pulling teeth.

[Eurhetemec]

The cake is a lie in case you hadn't heard that one.

Your reading of my post and the intent do not match up. If you were wearing your mic we could talk about it but I have to assume one of two things: I fucked up typing it or you just can't aim with the sniper rifle and refuse to admit it. Now it could very well be the former but if you would quit rushing the sniper rifle and maybe let a team mate have a go at it; say for instance one who could get one kill from a clip instead of using it to fire for effect; we could find out.

You actually seem to be clarifying to me that my reading was correct, so I'm confused. Probably you can fix that.

It looks to me like you are saying you need people to have mics so you can verbally argue with them and explain that they're shit with the sniper rifle, and need to stop using that gun. Now, if you were a friend irl, that'd be fine. Stranger on the internet? No. That's just rude. I don't play games to argue with people on the internet, that's what message boards are for? What? Why is everyone looking at me like that... But you get my point :p

Your time is your own, and his time is his own. If you can't stand, can't live with a spazmonkey having the sniper rifle for some period of time (probably not indefinitely, likely a period of minutes at most), then don't play with non-friends. Presumably, given that this has apparently been a problem to you, you do play with non-friends.

What I'm getting at here is, what's the determining factor in whose "time" it is?

Like, if this is a public game, I do not think you are in a moral or decent position to be telling a guy that he's shit with the sniper rifle and needs to not take whilst simultaneously maintaining a position that "It's your dime". It's not. It's a public dime, it's a public game. It's like with me and WoW. Whilst I will certainly give the team advice on where to go, I'm not going to lecture some guy for being a spazbat. That's not proper or decent. If asks "Am I a spazbat?", most assuredly I will tell him, but I'm not here to start arguments or critique people's performance, I'm here to play as well as possible by myself and offer tactical advice - "Don't start the crescendo event please" is certainly fine, but "Hey, you suck with the sniper rifle, stop using it please" or "I'd like to have a talk with you about the sniper rifle". No, no it's not.

Now, if some jerk barges into your l337 friends-only game because Steam is shit and lets non-friends join friends-only games, then yes, I agree, lecture away! That's the dime of you and your friends. But these are two different situations, and I'm not sure which you're talking about, if either.

PS - I'm not really sure if the "you" in your post is hypothetical or aimed at me - I don't use the sniper rifle. So I don't really know - I do know players who started bad and got very good with it, though, and I'm not convinced that they knew they were bad before UNTIL they got good. My wife would be a good example - last FPS she played before L4D was Doom in the mid-90s. However, by the end of the last session we played, she was the most accurate player there.

[Professor Phobos]

"Don't take the sniper rifle in Versus" is just plain good advice.

[Qooroo]

It is reasonable that when playing a team game with a specific goal, that everyone on the team be expected to act in pursuit of that goal. That doesn't mean be the most badass-hardcore-l33t-awesome player in the world. Just actually make an effort to help your team succeed. Or at least an effort to not actively hinder your team's chance of success.

If you want to play such a game with disinterest in success, that's your perogative, but you should find other people who have a similarl goal, rather than imposing your preferences on your team-mates.

[Professor Phobos]

It is reasonable that when playing a team game with a specific goal, that everyone on the team be expected to act in pursuit of that goal. That doesn't mean be the most badass-hardcore-l33t-awesome player in the world. Just actually make an effort to help your team succeed. Or at least an effort to not actively hinder your team's chance of success.

If you want to play such a game with disinterest in success, that's your perogative, but you should find other people who have a similarl goal, rather than imposing your preferences on your team-mates.

Right. It is a cooperative game. I go in assuming all players are there to cooperate. I feel this is a reasonable assumption.

[YorkusRex]

It looks to me like you are saying you need people to have mics so you can verbally argue with them and explain that they're shit with the sniper rifle, and need to stop using that gun. Now, if you were a friend irl, that'd be fine. Stranger on the internet? No. That's just rude. I don't play games to argue with people on the internet, that's what message boards are for? What? Why is everyone looking at me like that... But you get my point :p

My sniper rifle comment was aimed more at team games where resources are limited and once a power weapon is grabbed you have to wait for the owner to die or the weapon to respawn. Fortunately, L4D lets anybody grab what they want so in that specific case, it's a non-issue. I have no real problem with the sniper rifle in L4D as it's actually a decent semi-auto weapon and that offsets some of the skill issues.

In the limited resources games however, it's very annoying to see someone grab the only sniper rifle or tank or gatling gun that shoots chainsaws that explode into shruiken and then do absolutely nothing productive with it. I know my sniping skills are average at best so in those games I'll mic out with "Anybody a sniper? If no wants the sniper rifle, I'm going to take it. Otherwise I'll guard it for you until you get here." It's just part of being a team player.

Back to subpar skills: I don't mind if the player is trying to learn and is functioning as a team player. I do mind if they logged on entirely to play teabag dance party or "snatch the power weapon and jump off a ledge" or Panzer monster rally. They can do those things in player matches with their friends, not in ranked matches.

Team game = team play and that means communication and not acting like a dick. Is that really such a hard concept for people to comprehend?

[Eurhetemec]

Right. It is a cooperative game. I go in assuming all players are there to cooperate. I feel this is a reasonable assumption.

I agree with that. I just know from experience that some people have an overextended idea of what "not cooperating" is, and you and others have happened to mention things where I think people frequently mistake less-than-stellar play or other factors for "not cooperating".

I mean, with other factors, like with mics - if you're a chick, playing with strangers, in L4D, even on the PC, unless you enjoy being sexually harassed ona a semi-regularly (albeit frequently on a relatively low level) and repeatedly telling basement nerds that you're not interested and then having to listen to them explain their actions, it's just not a good idea. I can't even IMAGINE what it's like on Xbox Live.

[Eurhetemec]

Team game = team play and that means communication and not acting like a dick. Is that really such a hard concept for people to comprehend?

Apparently!

I do think a significant part of that is treating other people with respect and tolerance, though, and I think a lot of players who are otherwise smart individuals, and polite irl, are kind of horrible jerks in multiplayer games, and I've specifically heard the whole deal about how they're "screwing everyone" used inappropriately dozens of times.

I mean, it's like, is it really so bad that you need to ruin some nitwit's day by telling them they're shit and need to l2p? Repeatedly? Arguing with them about it? I'm not saying anyone in this thread does it - but quite a number of internet-people who share and publicly express this "fuck around on your own time" attitude definitely do. WoW and to a lesser extent WAR's BGs are full of them. They're in TF2. They're in other games. Yes I know I'm a fucking terrible Scout, thank you for the wonderful information. I'm not going to become a good Scout by not playing one, though, am I?

So the question is now, where's the line? By playing a Scout and not a Sniper or Soldier, I am certainly fucking around in that I will definitely be a less effective member of the team in TF2. On the other hand, from my perspective, it's necessary that I L2P one, and there's no good way to do that solo, so...

PS - As for baddies getting the awesome weapon, honestly, unless they're going to have it for 15+ minutes, I can just write it off, myself. Oh well, bad person wants us to lose, c'est le internet. I'll probably never see him again.

[YorkusRex]

I do like how everyone assumes that mic communication automatically means that the mic user is screaming at their teammates and telling them what shitty players they are. It is possible to say "Hey let me have a go at the sniper rifle." without being a dick which is part of my stated team game philosophy repeated below:

Team game = team play and that means communication and not acting like a dick.

You guys must have had some bad mic experiences to assume that all mic chat pans out that way. Please show the jury on the sniper rifle where the bad mic screamed at you and all that.

[Spectrum]

I finally managed to pull off Cr0wnd yesterday when we were screwing around in an Advanced game for a change of pace. The key is to aim not so much for the head but for the neck. If you aim for the head, a pellet or two will probably miss high. If you aim for the neck, that probably won't happen.

The method, as I have learned it, is:
1) Light off
2) Shotgun out
3) Circle behind the witch. Make sure she is still in an undisturbed state.
4) Walk directly up to her and bump into her. Make sure you literally cannot walk any closer.
5) As soon as she stands up, shoot her. After the first shot, back up and keep shooting her. If your first one was even remotely a good one, even if it failed to kill her, you should probably get her on the second.

PS - I'm not really sure if the "you" in your post is hypothetical or aimed at me - I don't use the sniper rifle. So I don't really know - I do know players who started bad and got very good with it, though, and I'm not convinced that they knew they were bad before UNTIL they got good. My wife would be a good example - last FPS she played before L4D was Doom in the mid-90s. However, by the end of the last session we played, she was the most accurate player there.
To be honest, accuracy is mostly unnecessary unless you're using the Uzi (and the M4 to a degree, but less so because it has a much tighter cone), as it's the only weapon that is in constant danger of running out of ammo. Everything else is mostly forgiving on accuracy. The only time accuracy is *really* important is against special infected and those are pretty easily dealt with by a guy on M4 (or someone really good on hunting rifle).

[Cthulhu-chan]

Please show the jury on the sniper rifle where the bad mic screamed at you and all that.

Okay. :)

So for one of my first forays into TF2 on the PC (I was familiar with the console ports), a friend from RPG.net took me onto a server and we had a go with 2Fort. Being a little unfamiliar with keyboard and mouse control and not having yet adjusted my mouse sensitivity (console gaming background. Guilty as charged.), I was having a bit of trouble moving around smoothly. After not too long I hear a voice over my headphones say, "Jesus, Deirdre, have you never played a video game before?".

It may not seem like much, but I was pretty hurt. I was embarrassed at being called out, and felt like I'd ruined somebody's fun. I tapped out an apology, disconnected from the server, and wasn't sure I wanted to come back to the game. I did later, and I got better, and I really enjoy it now, so I'm glad that I did... but not everyone will. Some people will encounter attitudes, hostility, hate speech, or just be shamed and decide that the game isn't for them, and I think the community will be poorer for that. For my part, I don't want to deal with negative emotions when I play a game. Sure, when I play I want to win, and I want to show up in the MVP list at the end of the round, but most of all I just want to have fun and I want the people I'm playing with to have fun as well. I've learned to make use of the mute functionality to squelch hostile and overly bossy players, and my play experience has been far better for it.

So yeah, the mic can be incredibly intimidating to some of us in the hands of an overly amped up player. I not anti-mic, but I do have misgivings about a lot of players' abilities to use it responsibly. YMMV.

[IB Kraken]

No.

Set the tank on fire, then RUN!

Shooting it is second priority.
Helping people up is third, but worthwile if you have time and/or the tank is distracted.

Pretty much this.

Circle strafing around the Tank and firing will get the job done, but someone on the team is almost sure to be taken down (or even killed) that way.

The best way to take out a Tank:

1) Set it on fire.
2) The person he's after turns away from the Tank and RUNS. Preferably around some form of cover, so as to not get hit by a boulder.
3) The other team members fire on the tank as the bait is being chased.
4) When the Tank turns on somebody else, that person does step #2 and the whole thing repeats until the Tank is dead.

You can kill the Tank without anybody taking any damage this way. Especially since Tanks usually come out when the general infected aren't around in big numbers.

[Spectrum]

I prefer not setting the Tank on fire unless it's Versus or maybe the NM finale, to be honest. I swear to god he runs faster when he's on fire. Yesterday, we were dodging tanks fine until DT4 where we had one right outside spawn. Someone lit him on fire for the first time that day and he caught us pretty easily and punted us around for much more damage than usual.

[YorkusRex]

I just want to have fun and I want the people I'm playing with to have fun as well.

This is indeed the most important thing. That's why (back to the sniper rifle example) if someone who isn't good with it but still insists on using it and communicates that they are doing it to try and get better or even if they are merely wanting to shoot it "just because", I'm cool with it. It's when they do it and don't talk that burns my B button.


I've learned to make use of the mute functionality to squelch hostile and overly bossy players, and my play experience has been far better for it.

Mute is the most awesome mic feature of all. I like mic users who use it for its intended purpose and I love the ability to shut off the ones who don't. It's also a useful tool for telling me which teammates need to be booted. I don't want the racists, homophobes, misogynists or dicks on my team. I was playing a match where a female on the opposing team did a great job trash-talking us in the pre-game loabby. I was chuckling over it but some young guy on the team took it to heart. He was screaming "Kill the bitch!" over and over and over into the mic. I thought to myself "If this game allowed team killing, I would and YOU would be the bitch." Instead I stayed back and let him get killed time and time again and left the game after the match. No time for that nonsense.

[Professor Phobos]

I prefer not setting the Tank on fire unless it's Versus or maybe the NM finale, to be honest. I swear to god he runs faster when he's on fire. Yesterday, we were dodging tanks fine until DT4 where we had one right outside spawn. Someone lit him on fire for the first time that day and he caught us pretty easily and punted us around for much more damage than usual.

He does. There's a hilarious Youtube analysis set to Mario Kart music that proves it. Only in campaign, though- in Versus, he doesn't change speeds.

[shewolf]

How effective is that actually? Nto meaning anything, but it just dosent seem like the best tactic to me - am i missing something?

Doubles your damage.

EDIT: And one of the more common problems in L4D is "guy who thinks he knows everything but doesn't", who is generally also "guy who runs off from the team to do something l33t and gets everyone killed".

I've found that after the update it doesn't do much when you pounce for 3 hits, but if you get more than that, it does make a difference.

Check the console - like in CS it tells you the damage you've done.


And last night I played with 3 noobs on my team. They were friends. DIDN'T Listen at all. And I'm pretty careful about what I say...but they're experienced FPS ers and don't get the heavy teamplay aspect. At the end of the 4th stage of No Mercy, we still had less than 100 points. We didn't get past the 1st tank of the finale.

WRT mic - it's really helpful to be able to call out things like tank ahead, hunter/smoker has me, etc. I play with full subtitles, so I'll see things before the rest of the crew. And I use that to full advantage. I love L4D, and generally play with my clannies for a reason. Sure, Tap loves to Leeeeeeroy Jenkins! too much, but he'll slow down when we mention it.

You've got to friend me, and get in one of my games Professor. We have good cohesion, and don't talk too much because we know how to play together, but you'll get a damn fun game.

[shewolf]

He does. There's a hilarious Youtube analysis set to Mario Kart music that proves it. Only in campaign, though- in Versus, he doesn't change speeds.

Shooting him slows him down, though. One person of a team needs the M4, while the rest have auto-shotties. The M4 does better damage at range, and will let the rest get away.

[Professor Phobos]

You've got to friend me, and get in one of my games Professor. We have good cohesion, and don't talk too much because we know how to play together, but you'll get a damn fun game.

Done.

[Ugly Man]

I've perfected my Cr0wning moment of awesome (hah) by playing with my friends. As long as you are a quick aim, you don't actually need to sneak up to her at all. She gets up slowly enough that you can get right next to her and peg her in the face just by making a mad dash towards her. The only real tip is to fire madly into her face - the first shot may not kill her. Cackling insanely at this point is optional.

Of course, if you miss, she will eat you.

[Jonas Albrecht]

Done.

And you both should add me.



Because.

[Professor Phobos]

And you both should add me.



Because.

Steam ID?

Just had a game with Spectrum. He's terrible. Spectrum your play is so poor it is being added to the list of International Crimes by the UN.

Spectrum is so bad at this game his mother says, "Well I love my son...but I have to admit, he is very bad at Left 4 Dead. And I love him a little less for that."

[Jonas Albrecht]

Steam ID?

Just had a game with Spectrum. He's terrible. Spectrum your play is so poor it is being added to the list of International Crimes by the UN.

Spectrum is so bad at this game his mother says, "Well I love my son...but I have to admit, he is very bad at Left 4 Dead. And I love him a little less for that."

Jonas Albrecht


And I'm getting L4D soon. I'm still playing TF2 heavily.

[Professor Phobos]

Jonas Albrecht


And I'm getting L4D soon. I'm still playing TF2 heavily.

It doesn't find your name. Tell you what, if you're online right now, jump into the RPG.net steam chat and I'll add you direct.

[Jonas Albrecht]

It doesn't find your name. Tell you what, if you're online right now, jump into the RPG.net steam chat and I'll add you direct.

I'm not sure how to get there.

And derp, it's jonas_albrecht

[Professor Phobos]

I'm not sure how to get there.

And derp, it's jonas_albrecht

You probably need an invite to the RPG.net steam group. That can be arranged.

[Spectrum]

Steam ID?

Just had a game with Spectrum. He's terrible. Spectrum your play is so poor it is being added to the list of International Crimes by the UN.

Spectrum is so bad at this game his mother says, "Well I love my son...but I have to admit, he is very bad at Left 4 Dead. And I love him a little less for that."
On the flipside, Phobos's play is so uninspiring that we could probably put a 3 year old behind his computer and get better play. But even worse than that, he frequently tries to lead us in wrong directions or gives out incomprehensible orders.

Thankfully, everyone else just ignores him and does the right thing. It helps that no one can understand what he's saying anyway.

[Professor Phobos]

(Thanks for not mentioning the ah, the "witch incident", by the way)

My orders are entirely sensible. While it may seem counter-intuitive, defending the crescendo event NM3 while standing between the gas station pumps is a foolproof strategy.

[Spectrum]

(Thanks for not mentioning the ah, the "witch incident", by the way)
That was painful (to watch) for all involved (but most of all you).

My orders are entirely sensible. While it may seem counter-intuitive, defending the crescendo event NM3 while standing between the gas station pumps is a foolproof strategy.
Yes, so foolproof we managed to light the enemy team on fire when they did the same thing.

I was more referring to the whole attempt to lead us along the roof in NM3 a second time even though we already opened the bottom door. ;)

[Professor Phobos]

That was painful (to watch) for all involved (but most of all you).

It is hard with the regular shotgun...


I was more referring to the whole attempt to lead us along the roof in NM3 a second time even though we already opened the bottom door. ;)

I...forget things sometimes.

[shewolf]

And Done. You'll know me by my sweet Jayne-itar ;)

[Eurhetemec]

I do like how everyone assumes that mic communication automatically means that the mic user is screaming at their teammates and telling them what shitty players they are. It is possible to say "Hey let me have a go at the sniper rifle." without being a dick which is part of my stated team game philosophy repeated below:

Team game = team play and that means communication and not acting like a dick.

You guys must have had some bad mic experiences to assume that all mic chat pans out that way. Please show the jury on the sniper rifle where the bad mic screamed at you and all that.

If everyone "assumes" that, could there possibly be, oh I don't know, some sort of reason or experience that's causing them to "assume" it? To be honest, whilst it's good to hear that you and Phobos aren't dicks 'irl', as it were (I'm not either, amazingly), an awful lot of people preaching the same sermon are. I just really think a lot of people need to chill out, and make more positive assumptions about their team-mates, in a wide variety of multiplayer games.

[YorkusRex]

To be honest, whilst it's good to hear that you and Phobos aren't dicks 'irl', as it were (I'm not either, amazingly), an awful lot of people preaching the same sermon are.

I never claimed not to be a dick IRL, just on the mic.:p

[John W Mangrum]

I don't have a mic (I actually did go out and buy one just for this game, but the dang thing doesn't work -- should have read the product reviews first), but I find that:

A) You don't need a mic, but it helps.
B) All else being equal, in Versus a team with mics will do noticeably better than a team without.
C) Survivors need mics much more than Infected. Infected have plenty of downtime to text.
D) "Everyone with a mic" is fine, but you can do arguably just as well if you have one person with a mic in command -- and everyone else actually taking orders. (All the mikes in the world won't help when one idiot insists on going "lone wolf" on the team.)

[shewolf]

For everyone who doesn't have a mic, may I suggest binding a key to "Help Hunter/Smoker on me!" and "HUNTER/SMOKER!" (both - one for when it happens, one for when they don't see the first). A clannie uses it for when his GF is sleeping and he has to whisper.

[Giant Mosquito]

If you're pissed about the noobs and 'tards and people crying hax, repeat to yourself, "It's just a game, I should really just relax."

I'm reminded of the fact that the gaming clan I was a part of when I was more into FPSes once kicked a guy for excessive anger during play. People occasionally do stupid stuff. Griefing is one thing and it's right to take action against it. In competitive play, you've got a good reason to kick people from the team/squad/whatever if they suck. In casual online play, though, people running around like chickens with their heads cut off is pretty much an everyday thing.

[YorkusRex]

People occasionally do stupid stuff. Griefing is one thing and it's right to take action against it.

Despite what my friends say, I did NOT accidentally drop a pipe bomb in the center of the party while fumbling around trying to access my medkit.

It was intentional because they were too focused on talking about baseball.

[PyroGod]

Speaking of rage, what the FUCK is with all the rage quitters in the L4D community? We had 10 or so today through a single run of No Mercy. No one on my team cheated, map exploited, or trash talked. Are these players really such wilting flowers they cannot handle losing?

I realize our team of people all on vent with like 50 years of combined FPS versus experience is pretty good, but it wasn't a shutout. They (by they I mean the combined forces of like 14 people over the movie) had survivors on multiple maps, and we didn't always get four.

It's absolutely insane. I've never seen anything like it in a FPS before, short of games where you could avoid Ranked mode losses by quitting. I realize real life sometimes has to come first (babies on fire, zombies eating babies, or worst of all, zombies on fire eating babies, whatever), but I'm pretty sure no more than one or two of the quitters I had to put up with today were within close proximity to a fire or other emergency.

[Professor Phobos]

Rage quitting is an epidemic. I think part of it is the committment of a whole L4D campaign, and the fact that you're dependent on your team and if you have no confidence they will improve...best to go search for greener pastures.

Not that I have any problem whatsoever with playing with a bad team. It certainly doesn't frustrate me or anything like that.

There are also three kinds of rage quits.

1. The kill yourself and leave quit; this is a dick move

2. The leave suddenly quit; eh, it's not fair but you don't hav eto play a game, even for a couple of seconds, if you don't want to anymore.

3. The courteous rage quit- you play the end of the round, and leave during an inter-round pause.

[moondog548]

I find that losing in VS. is plenty enjoyable because it usally means that the other team is cohesive and fluid to the point of poetry and their carnage becomes ballet.

I really like horror movies though. :D

Losing because your team is fucktarded is not fun, however. Griefing is ok for the lulz here and there (I mean it's the zombie apocalypse. We're all gonna die here. Might as well yuk it up now and then).

But obviously that ruins the game very quickly in any substantial amount (like, say, the tank escorting the survivors through the level. cockmonglers :mad:).

[shewolf]

But obviously that ruins the game very quickly in any substantial amount (like, say, the tank escorting the survivors through the level. cockmonglers :mad:).

man what


I try to finish the level, and warn the team that I have to leave - usually I'm pubbing and the clan's getting a game together. I don't mind playing on the losing team. It forces me to work that much harder to be better at what I do. Sadly, I'm still terrible at fighting a tank with tier 1's.... I have a bad habit of trying to distract the tank and getting stuck on something :(

[Spectrum]

Ragequitters tend to happen in droves once a team falls behind and/or gets slaughtered on one level.

The game Phobos and I were on yesterday was even to within a couple hundred points until NM3, whereupon we survived and they were killed at the lift. Entire team quit in disgust.

[shewolf]

Ragequitters tend to happen in droves once a team falls behind and/or gets slaughtered on one level.

The game Phobos and I were on yesterday was even to within a couple hundred points until NM3, whereupon we survived and they were killed at the lift. Entire team quit in disgust.
I mock those people roundly. *mock mock*

Seriously, I will rage in CS - I play just to help fill the server, not because I love the game- but my leaving isn't going to make a difference - I SUCK at CS. But L4D isn't that way. Losing a human can ruin the game. My hubby switched teams last night, on NM5, and he had the other molitov. And we didn't get any on the roof. So we were really at a disadvantage being unable to burn the tank. It sucked hardcore :(

[Spectrum]

I mock those people roundly. *mock mock*

Seriously, I will rage in CS - I play just to help fill the server, not because I love the game- but my leaving isn't going to make a difference - I SUCK at CS. But L4D isn't that way. Losing a human can ruin the game. My hubby switched teams last night, on NM5, and he had the other molitov. And we didn't get any on the roof. So we were really at a disadvantage being unable to burn the tank. It sucked hardcore :(
I still have some modicum of respect for those people.

On the otherhand, the entire team that then quit by jumping into the NM5 elevator shaft after we survived on NM4 and they were killed at the elevator, them I have no respect for.

[YorkusRex]

I pride myself on never having quit an online game, ever. I've played in games where the connection times out or otherwise the game ends and I did have a case where the power went out but I've never voluntarily walked away from a game.

Now, I will say that I've not aided team mates who are idiots or screaming racist slurs into the mic and in games that allow it I've even team killed those types but I've never walked away. Booted? Yes. Walked? Never.

[Professor Phobos]

I pride myself on never having quit an online game, ever. I've played in games where the connection times out or otherwise the game ends and I did have a case where the power went out but I've never voluntarily walked away from a game.

Now, I will say that I've not aided team mates who are idiots or screaming racist slurs into the mic and in games that allow it I've even team killed those types but I've never walked away. Booted? Yes. Walked? Never.

Wait, if you never voluntarily leave a game, wouldn't that leave you stuck playing until there's a server crash?

That's some dedication man, but how do you eat? When do you sleep?

[PyroGod]

Rage quitting is an epidemic. I think part of it is the committment of a whole L4D campaign, and the fact that you're dependent on your team and if you have no confidence they will improve...best to go search for greener pastures.

Not that I have any problem whatsoever with playing with a bad team. It certainly doesn't frustrate me or anything like that.

It frustrates me, but I stay unless the team has a multiple map commitment to being as shitty as possible (I'm talking about borderline retard level, not merely a little green). I'm not saying I won't quit under any circumstances, but coming in slightly behind on the first map is not one of them.

There are also three kinds of rage quits.
1. The kill yourself and leave quit; this is a dick move

Yeah, these guys are actually sabotaguing other people. They are unmitigated dicks.

2. The leave suddenly quit; eh, it's not fair but you don't hav eto play a game, even for a couple of seconds, if you don't want to anymore.

3. The courteous rage quit- you play the end of the round, and leave during an inter-round pause.

I would actually argue starting a campaign fresh instead of joining in progress does require some level of commitment to finish it.

But yeah, it's a huge epidemic, and I really don't understand based on how different it is from most other games I've played.

[Professor Phobos]

What I don't understand is when people rage-quit after the first round when the scores are really close. If it's just a couple of slashes in point difference...the teams are pretty even. L4D is hugely luck dependent anyway, so the best you can get is "close."

Now, if you're team gets annihilated just outside the safe room and the other team made it all the way with like a +190 health bonus, then yeah, I can see it.

[John W Mangrum]

What I don't understand is when people rage-quit after the first round when the scores are really close. If it's just a couple of slashes in point difference...the teams are pretty even. L4D is hugely luck dependent anyway, so the best you can get is "close."

Do you know that they're rage quitting? On more occasions than I like to think about, I've played through a round, for good or ill, but as soon as it ends I lose my connection to the server, without any lag to warn it was coming.

[Professor Phobos]

Do you know that they're rage quitting? On more occasions than I like to think about, I've played through a round, for good or ill, but as soon as it ends I lose my connection to the server, without any lag to warn it was coming.

Certainly, that happens. But you cannot explain the totality of departures without huge rage-quit forcing.

[YorkusRex]

Wait, if you never voluntarily leave a game, wouldn't that leave you stuck playing until there's a server crash?

That's some dedication man, but how do you eat? When do you sleep?

Nevah!

That's why I'm do docile on the mic: weak from lack of food and sleep.