Amazon CreateSpace

[Eternalknight]

Does anyone here use CreateSpace for print on demand titles? I have only used Lulu and was wondering what other people's experiences had been with Amazon.

Cheers.

[NicodemisQuick]

I currently use Createspace for two of the titles that I sell. I can say when they are on the ball the books come out very nice, but its very hit or miss with these guys; because the second title that I released through them did not come out as good. The print quality seemed a bit below par in that case.

One thing to remember about Createspace as compared to Lulu.com is that under Createspace you MUST order a proof before your title can go on to sell through Amazon.com, where as with Lulu.com it is not absolutely necessary to order a Proof of your work that you have them printing.

[Akyna]

One thing to remember about Createspace as compared to Lulu.com is that under Createspace you MUST order a proof before your title can go on to sell through Amazon.com, where as with Lulu.com it is not absolutely necessary to order a Proof of your work that you have them printing.

To clarify, if you use Lulu AND want your book to appear on Amazon (i.e., buy a distro package) then yes, you must buy a proof copy. If you do not buy a distro program and only sell through the Lulu storefront, you do not have to buy a proof.

I have been using Createspace almost since it launched. It's original print quality was not on par with Lulu or LSI, however it has gotten much better and now I would say the quality is almost identical. The only issue with CS is that it tends to print dark, so images need to be lighten slightly in order to look right in print (normally about 10%). This is particularly true with cover art.

Benefits over Lulu:
*Much better pricing than Lulu, particularly on color.
*Quicker shipping. Books generally arrive much quicker than the estimated delivery date.
*Lower domestic shipping rates.
*Access to Amazon listing with no fee or requirement to purchase a distro package. Also automatically updates your listing with the "Search This Book" feature.
*Better control over pricing. You set the retail, instead of Lulu calculating it at an outlandish rate based on your royalty.
*Ability to set discount codes for use in promotions.


Drawbacks compared to Lulu:
*No hardcovers
*No 8 1/2 by 11" size. Since this is the standard RPG size, this is a bit problematic.
*No storefront. Each book has its own page, but no all-inclusive storefront if you have more than one title.
*The community isn't as well defined as it is at Lulu. While both sites have a pretty "hands off" approach to customer support, Lulu has an established core of experienced users available to answer questions and offer help in their forums. On CS, the community isn't as well developed yet.
*U.S. only. The system does not really support folks outside the U.S. (You can ship overseas and overseas customers can buy through CS, but as a creator you need to be in the U.S.)

[Jeremy Keller]

Thanks Akyna. That was very informative.

I'm hoping that since my illustrations are all line art, the varying reports I've heard about the darkness of CS's printing won't be too big of an issue.

[DJorgensen]

*No 8 1/2 by 11" size. Since this is the standard RPG size, this is a bit problematic.

This right here is more of a nightmare than simply saying "No 8.5x11 size" suggests. While doing research to determine how to reformat my 8.5x11 products for CS, I stumbled across something disturbing - CS's quality control team considered trims being off center by as much as 1/4 of an inch acceptable.

So if you're thinking the same thing I was ("I'll just take a total of a half an inch off the side margins, and an inch off between the top and bottom margins so it will fit the 8x10 format"), it isn't going to work unless your 8.5x11 margins were ridiculously large. We're stuck having to resize everything, and worse, completely reformat any page width charts or tables, if we wish to add any existing products to CS.

Also, CS and Lulu have only three identical trim sizes available. 5.5x8, 6x9, and 8.25x8.25.

[Steve Conan Trustrum]

To clarify, if you use Lulu AND want your book to appear on Amazon (i.e., buy a distro package) then yes, you must buy a proof copy. If you do not buy a distro program and only sell through the Lulu storefront, you do not have to buy a proof.My Lulu stuff just appeared on Amazon today without me having to do anything. I got an email from Lulu saying my books had been selected for sale on Amazon, and sure enough, I go over to Amazon and there they are, listed. I didn't buy anything or even initiate it--Lulu did it all on their own.

[Cynthia Celeste Miller]

My Lulu stuff just appeared on Amazon today without me having to do anything. I got an email from Lulu saying my books had been selected for sale on Amazon, and sure enough, I go over to Amazon and there they are, listed. I didn't buy anything or even initiate it--Lulu did it all on their own.

This happened for me as well, with both Cartoon Action Hour: Season 2 and Slasher Flick.

[Destriarch]

I got the email too, but I have absolutely no idea which books they're talking about and can't find any of my work on the Amazon website. Maybe they've not finished listing it yet. Couldn't help noticing that they claim an additional markup on top of what Lulu charges though. I'm not sure I like the fact that they're basically selling at over the RRP. It's bad enough that they deep discount, but at least that means they have to make a concession. I don't want potential customers thinking that the Amazon price is the official one - I like to think I've never been greedy with my prices.

-Ash

[Matt-M-McElroy]

*No 8 1/2 by 11" size. Since this is the standard RPG size, this is a bit problematic.

Houses of the Blooded
Savage Worlds Explorer's Edition
Don't Rest Your Head
Faery's Tale Deluxe Edition
Primetime Adventures
Mortal Coil
Colonial Gothic
Spirit of the Century
Mind's Eye Theatre
Cthulhu Live 3rd Edition

Are all 6x9.

Books like Agon and 3:16 are 9x6.

I'm not so sure 8.5 x 11 is standard for RPGs.

-Matt

[theltemes]

Houses of the Blooded
Savage Worlds Explorer's Edition
Don't Rest Your Head
Faery's Tale Deluxe Edition
Primetime Adventures
Mortal Coil
Colonial Gothic
Spirit of the Century
Mind's Eye Theatre
Cthulhu Live 3rd Edition

Are all 6x9.

Books like Agon and 3:16 are 9x6.

I'm not so sure 8.5 x 11 is standard for RPGs.

-Matt

Matt,

You need to take a trip over to Pegasus Games. I'd say that over 90% of their stock is 8.5x11. The off-size stuff is relegated to a small selection of "indie" rpgs and AFMBE.

[Matt-M-McElroy]

Matt,

You need to take a trip over to Pegasus Games. I'd say that over 90% of their stock is 8.5x11. The off-size stuff is relegated to a small selection of "indie" rpgs and AFMBE.

As much asw I love shopping at Peg...they are not going to be carrying many of the titles printed at Lulu or CreateSpace so they are not a good example of selection for this thread.

Not only indies are printing 6x9 these days. Savage Worlds from Pinnacle, Mind's Eye Theatre and the Horror Recognition Guide from White Wolf are all 6x9.

-Matt

[HinterWelt]

Houses of the Blooded
Savage Worlds Explorer's Edition
Don't Rest Your Head
Faery's Tale Deluxe Edition
Primetime Adventures
Mortal Coil
Colonial Gothic
Spirit of the Century
Mind's Eye Theatre
Cthulhu Live 3rd Edition

Are all 6x9.

Books like Agon and 3:16 are 9x6.

I'm not so sure 8.5 x 11 is standard for RPGs.

-Matt
All my Squirrel Attack! books a 5.5x8.5. However, retailers are not really excited by that format. So, I would not try and paint it as standard. Non-trade sized books might becoming more common but not necessarily standard. I would consider such limitations very seriously in a potential printer.

[Steve Conan Trustrum]

As much asw I love shopping at Peg...they are not going to be carrying many of the titles printed at Lulu or CreateSpace so they are not a good example of selection for this thread.

Not only indies are printing 6x9 these days. Savage Worlds from Pinnacle, Mind's Eye Theatre and the Horror Recognition Guide from White Wolf are all 6x9.

-MattIf you look in just about any game store you'll see most of the books lining the shelves are 8.5x11. It remains, by far, the most common RPG size despite smaller formats gaining in popularity amongst publishers.

[Steve Conan Trustrum]

I got the email too, but I have absolutely no idea which books they're talking about and can't find any of my work on the Amazon website. Maybe they've not finished listing it yet. Couldn't help noticing that they claim an additional markup on top of what Lulu charges though. I'm not sure I like the fact that they're basically selling at over the RRP. It's bad enough that they deep discount, but at least that means they have to make a concession. I don't want potential customers thinking that the Amazon price is the official one - I like to think I've never been greedy with my prices.

-AshCheck under product titles, author name, etc. using advanced search. I just finished going over my Amazon catalog and providing revisions. Some of my products didn't have authors listed, or had publisher as "publisher unknown" and so didn't show up when I searched under "misfit studios." Some of them were also missing pictures.

[Matt-M-McElroy]

If you look in just about any game store you'll see most of the books lining the shelves are 8.5x11. It remains, by far, the most common RPG size despite smaller formats gaining in popularity amongst publishers.

How many books printed at Lulu.com or CreateSpace are going to be sitting on the shelves of just about any game store?

The fact that CreateSpace does not print 8.5x11 should not be considered "problematic" for most of the publishers considering using this as an outlet for their products.

Anyway, this particular topic is branching off from the thread's goal. I'll gladly concede that many books on game store shelves are 8.5x11 in size. However the list above is just a few of the titles being offered in 6x9, so a new game printed that size will be in good company.

-Matt

[Tim Gray]

Not only indies are printing 6x9 these days. Savage Worlds from Pinnacle, Mind's Eye Theatre and the Horror Recognition Guide from White Wolf are all 6x9.
Actually, Savage Worlds is a weird size of its own.

But it's true. The primary RPG size is 8.5x11.
8.5 x 11 and 6 x 9.
And a fanatical devotion to Crown Quarto.

[Steve Conan Trustrum]

How many books printed at Lulu.com or CreateSpace are going to be sitting on the shelves of just about any game store?I'm merely pointing out that walking into a game store will make it VERY clear what the standard book size is. Whether anyone publishing through Lulu or CreateSpace gets their books into game stores is not relevant to that point.

The fact that CreateSpace does not print 8.5x11 should not be considered "problematic" for most of the publishers considering using this as an outlet for their products.Sure it should, because few will be preparing books EXCLUSIVELY for CreateSpace. Say someone wants to make their books available for PDF, CreateSpace, and have them pre-press ready should they later choose to go with traditional offset printing (a likely scenario, given the ease of publishing these days) the lack of this common page size can cause issues and waste time.

The fact that CreateSpace doesn't offer 8.5x11 is annoying for the PDF version because most PDF customers like to print while wasting as little page space as possible, with 8.5x11 being the most common home printer page size. Not being able to do pre-press for one of the most common off-set sizes means that if you do indeed find the cash to do a "traditional" print run you'll be limited to printers who offer your CreateSpace book size (which can also cause problems because you can get bumped down the queue line until they can take the time to recalibrate for your print run, etc.) or you'll have to redo the layout entirely to suit the new printer.