[4e] Fun with Hybrids

[red_artifice]

A player of mine is looking for, in his words, 'A barbarian dude that turns in to a bear and wales on anything in sight.' I suggested he tried a barbarian/druid hybrid. We're playing at around level seven, and this is what I've come up with

Keothi, level 7
Goliath, Druid|Barbarian
Hybrid Druid: Hybrid Druid Will

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 18, Con 14, Dex 13, Int 10, Wis 17, Cha 9.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 15, Con 12, Dex 13, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 9.


AC: 19 Fort: 20 Reflex: 16 Will: 20
HP: 57 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 14

TRAINED SKILLS
Perception +11, Athletics +13, Nature +13

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +3, Arcana +3, Bluff +2, Diplomacy +2, Dungeoneering +6, Endurance +4, Heal +6, History +3, Insight +6, Intimidate +2, Religion +3, Stealth +3, Streetwise +2, Thievery +3

FEATS
Level 1: Enraged Boar Form
Level 2: Rising Fury
Level 4: Goliath Greatweapon Prowess
Level 6: Quick Draw

POWERS
Hybrid Barbarian at-will 1: Howling Strike
Hybrid Druid at-will 1: Pounce
Hybrid encounter 1: Bloodletting
Hybrid daily 1: Bloodhunt Rage
Hybrid utility 2: Stonebreaker
Hybrid encounter 3: Battering Claws
Hybrid daily 5: Roar of Terror
Hybrid utility 6: Stalker's Eyes
Hybrid encounter 7: Curtain of Steel

ITEMS
Veteran's Hide Armor +2, Amulet of Protection +2, Adventurer's Kit, Vicious Greataxe +2, Autumn Harvest Totem +2

Obvious flaw is the switch to implement every turn for beast form- I had to add quickdraw for that.

Thoughts? Improvements?

[Yakk]

FEATS
Level 1: Enraged Boar Form
Level 2: Rising Fury
Level 4: Goliath Greatweapon Prowess
Level 6: Quick Draw
No Hybrid Talent feat? Usually that is a no brainer.

Note that tool-specific feats are gimped with implement+weapon builds because you need two tools to fight with, thus your bonuses only apply half of the time. See if you can find non-tool specific feats that are as useful.
POWERS
Hybrid Barbarian at-will 1: Howling Strike
Hybrid Druid at-will 1: Pounce
Those are both charge based. Do you even get the charge-on-drop class feature of Barbarians?
ITEMS
Veteran's Hide Armor +2,
You know that was changed, right?
Amulet of Protection +2, Adventurer's Kit, Vicious Greataxe +2, Autumn Harvest Totem +2

Obvious flaw is the switch to implement every turn for beast form- I had to add quickdraw for that.

Thoughts? Improvements?I'd talk to the DM about letting the Druid use totems like holy symbols (unequipped).

[phreddkroe]

You could let him be a shifter barbarian and reskin it to be more werebear instead of werewolf. When he uses his encounter shifter power he would look like a blood-crazed bear destroying everything in sight.

[Scarik]

You could let him be a shifter barbarian and reskin it to be more werebear instead of werewolf. When he uses his encounter shifter power he would look like a blood-crazed bear destroying everything in sight.

This is a much better way to do it. All those beast powers are based on Wisdom rather than Strength so that Hybrid actually gets weaker when he shapechanges.

The paragon path Bear Warrior is of course perfect for this character.

[Danger Mouse]

I've done a pretty similar hybrid build to this, except mine is a razorclaw shifter rogue/druid which is used to represent a person who can turn into a panther. I haven't had a chance to see it in play yet, though. You might want to consider a longtooth shifter, both for the wisdom boost (important for the druid powers) and the thematic shifting power.

Another option is to just re-fluff some or all of his rage powers and say that he turns into a bear while using them.

Also, you're probably alread aware of this, but just in case you're not, check out the Bear Warrior barbarian paragon path from the PH2.

[neonchameleon]

Going even simpler on the transformations, give the Rages a physical effect. Just takes a little skinning to make Bloodhunt and Macetail rages into bear transformations. I'd try something like the following:

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 7
Longtooth Shifter, Barbarian
Feral Might: Rageblood Vigor

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 19, Con 15, Dex 14, Int 8, Wis 15, Cha 10.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 14, Dex 14, Int 8, Wis 13, Cha 10.


AC: 21 Fort: 21 Reflex: 18 Will: 17
HP: 66 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 16

TRAINED SKILLS
Endurance +11, Perception +10, Athletics +13, Nature +10

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +5, Arcana +2, Bluff +3, Diplomacy +3, Dungeoneering +5, Heal +5, History +2, Insight +5, Intimidate +3, Religion +2, Stealth +4, Streetwise +3, Thievery +4

FEATS
Level 1: Weapon Proficiency (Fullblade)
Level 2: Initiate of the Old Faith
Level 4: Improved Rageblood Vigor
Level 6: Weapon Expertise (Heavy Blade)

POWERS
Barbarian at-will 1: Pressing Strike
Barbarian at-will 1: Howling Strike
Initiate of the Old Faith: Savage Rend
Barbarian encounter 1: Bloodletting
Barbarian daily 1: Bloodhunt Rage
Barbarian utility 2: Combat Sprint
Barbarian encounter 3: Hammer Fall
Barbarian daily 5: Frost Wolf Rage
Barbarian utility 6: Laugh it Off
Barbarian encounter 7: Curtain of Steel

ITEMS
Fullblade, Hide Armor, Javelin (4), Adventurer's Kit, Feral Hide Armor +2, Reckless Fullblade +2, Amulet of Protection +2, Bracers of Mighty Striking (heroic tier), Gloves of Piercing (heroic tier), Acrobat Boots (heroic tier)
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

[Jade Bells Ringing]

This is a much better way to do it. All those beast powers are based on Wisdom rather than Strength so that Hybrid actually gets weaker when he shapechanges.

The paragon path Bear Warrior is of course perfect for this character.
well, basically, I was toying with a longtooth shifter fighter/cleric for similar reasons, but have yet to compare it to a fighter MC cleric.

[Scarik]

well, basically, I was toying with a longtooth shifter fighter/cleric for similar reasons, but have yet to compare it to a fighter MC cleric.

I find MC is almost always better than Hybrid, but in the case of the Fighter/Cleric I think you're liable to get some good mileage with all the Battle Cleric options. A fighter with Reaping Strike or Righteous Brand is a mean SoB.

[Jade Bells Ringing]

I find MC is almost always better than Hybrid, but in the case of the Fighter/Cleric I think you're liable to get some good mileage with all the Battle Cleric options. A fighter with Reaping Strike or Righteous Brand is a mean SoB.
well, basically, multi-class costs a lot of feats. I was wondering if the hybrid with feats devoted to what is generally called bad-assitude works out comparable or not.

[Yakk]

Treating this as a fun with hybrids thread, some interesting ideas:

A Quarterstaff build:
Hybrid Ranger | Barbarian MC Sorcerer

The Quarterstaff is unique in that with a single feat, you can have a weapon that is a double weapon, a 2H weapon, and a (pair of) implements, all at the same time.

The above build is a Str/Cha attack build. You might buy up Dex for defense purposes. Grab the Barbarian AC hybrid talent perhaps.

---

The tri-part defender:
Tempest Fighter | Assault Swordmage MC Warden
MC warden for the extra stickyness (slow on OA, mark all around 1/encounter).

This builds is Str/Int primary.

---

The Hatchet Master:
Tempest Fighter | Ranger
Get 15 con for epic-tier axe feats and hide armor spec. Dual wield hatchets (throwing axes) and wear light armor. Put remainder of points into Str and then Dex, and bump Dex as you gain levels. Take Dual Strike and Twin Strike as your at-wills (Dual Strike marks, Twin Strike does HQ damage and works on one target).

[Adal]

Well, if it is going to be a fun with any hybrid thread, I have to say I like the Wizard|Swordmage combo. I like the idea of a wizard that casts with a blade, but I just wasn't satisfied with the Swordmage, especially in the utility department. This way, I get to play a wizard with a blade implement and a few tricks up his sleeve.

A neat human-only version of this multiclasses fighter to use the polearm feats with thunderwave and reaper's touch with magic missile for some neat pushes and teleport effects, and the white lotus riposte feats to give enemies no good options if you're adjacent. If they move in any way, you get an attack with battle awareness. If they hit someone else, you get to hit them back. If they hit you, you get to hit them back. Only downside is that the array you need to build the guy keeps your Intelligence at 16 at starting, so accuracy is not ideal and neither is the feat-heaviness. Still think it would be really fun to play.

If you go Genasi and assault swordmage, you can get some excellent mileage out of elemental empowerment, and actually use that strength for something besides Fort. At least until you use alchemical admixture to make magic missile elemental and pick up reaper's touch.

Alternatively, I bet that with all the new Paladin powers and feats you could make a pretty cool Paladin|Wizard or Paladin|Swordmage. All the armor proficiencies he wants for one feat and gets to use his sword as an implement for all powers is swordmage (or after one feat if a wizard). The Paladin|Swordmage would be able to put marks all over the map with divine sanction, and the Wizard could go Genasi and minor in striker. Probably have to dump Charisma unless he's a Tiefling, so I'm not sure how much the implement proficiency adds.

[Mr. Teapot]

A player of mine is looking for, in his words, 'A barbarian dude that turns in to a bear and wales on anything in sight.' I suggested he tried a barbarian/druid hybrid.

Warden fits the concept just as well as Druid and would work a lot better mechanically. (Wardens get shapeshift powers, use Str as primary and are weapon based, so fit better than druid.) Actually, just straight Warden fits the concept just fine, though some MCing Barbarian or Warden/Barb hybrid would work too.

[devlin1]

Well, if it is going to be a fun with any hybrid thread, I have to say I like the Wizard|Swordmage combo.
Yeah, wizmage is strong. Good synergy.

I also like the bardbarian, the finger, the aforementioned wardin, and the barlock. I also see possibility in the invenger, but one of the best, IMO, is the swordmavenger.

[Molydeus]

It might be easy enough just to stay as a Barbarian and reskin Rages as shapeshifting.

Unless you really want the Controller/Defender abilities of the other class.

[Scarik]

Yeah, wizmage is strong. Good synergy.

I also like the bardbarian, the finger, the aforementioned wardin, and the barlock. I also see possibility in the invenger, but one of the best, IMO, is the swordmavenger.

I'm not sure if those acronyms were meant to be hilarious, but I LOLed. :)

[devlin1]

I'm not sure if those acronyms were meant to be hilarious, but I LOLed. :)
I wish I could think of a better portmanteau for the swordmavenger, because it's really quite good. "Avage" is too short, "vengemage" is possibly more awkward than even swordmavenger... I dunno.

See, on the character builder, it just says "Hybrid" for the class, so I have to come up with names that tell me at a glance which hybrid is which... because I've made a ton of them now.

[Adal]

I wish I could think of a better portmanteau for the swordmavenger, because it's really quite good. "Avage" is too short, "vengemage" is possibly more awkward than even swordmavenger... I dunno.

See, on the character builder, it just says "Hybrid" for the class, so I have to come up with names that tell me at a glance which hybrid is which... because I've made a ton of them now.

"Swordvenger" looks strange written down, but it rolls off the tongue all right.

[devlin1]

"Swordvenger" looks strange written down, but it rolls off the tongue all right.
I'd be more inclined to call him a "sworvenger," because at least you keep a vowel phoneme before the "venger" bit, just like avenger does. But swordmavenger is almost purposely awkward -- I usually look for a point of commonality in the two class names, and the only one I could find there was the "a," so I stubbornly went with it.

Anyway, to get back on topic, here's that swordmavenger at 5th level (all the PCs I make seem to be at 5th level, for some reason, with no eye toward future development).

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Swordmavenger, level 5
Deva, Avenger|Swordmage
Hybrid Avenger: Hybrid Avenger Fortitude
Swordmage Aegis (Hybrid): Aegis of Ensnarement
Hybrid Talent: Armor of Faith
Background: Occupation - Hired Killer (+2 to Athletics)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 15, Dex 11, Int 18, Wis 18, Cha 10.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 15, Dex 11, Int 15, Wis 15, Cha 10.


AC: 22 Fort: 17 Reflex: 18 Will: 19
HP: 53 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 13

TRAINED SKILLS
Perception +11, Stealth +7, Arcana +11

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +2, Bluff +2, Diplomacy +2, Dungeoneering +6, Endurance +4, Heal +6, History +8, Insight +6, Intimidate +2, Nature +6, Religion +8, Streetwise +2, Thievery +2, Athletics +3

FEATS
Level 1: Hybrid Talent
Level 2: Focused Expertise (Greatsword)
Level 4: Armor Proficiency (Leather)

POWERS
Hybrid Avenger at-will 1: Overwhelming Strike
Hybrid Swordmage at-will 1: Sword Burst
Hybrid encounter 1: Crackling Burst
Hybrid daily 1: Sweeping Frostblade
Hybrid utility 2: Resonant Escape
Hybrid encounter 3: Sequestering Strike
Hybrid daily 5: Living Death Strike

ITEMS
Bloodcut Leather Armor +1, Flensing Greatsword +1, Amulet of Protection +2, Hedge Wizard's Gloves (heroic tier)

[Scholar and a Brutalman]

I've been thinking that a Ranger will pretty much always be better hybridized: they can only use Hunter's Quarry with Ranger powers, but then again they only really need one Ranger at-will to use it with. The Bow Ranger|Cleric and TWF Ranger|Warden both seem like great options.

[Yakk]

And even if you can make the class concept better via reskinning, being able to build the class concept as an effective 4e character without reskinning inspires an interesting build. :)

[Mr. Teapot]

I've been thinking that a Ranger will pretty much always be better hybridized: they can only use Hunter's Quarry with Ranger powers, but then again they only really need one Ranger at-will to use it with. The Bow Ranger|Cleric and TWF Ranger|Warden both seem like great options.

This works very, very well when you take all the Interrupt, Reaction, Minor Action, etc. powers that the Ranger has (a lot in Martial Power), then take another Striker class for the other half of the Hybrid. That way you get both class's added damage each turn, instead of just one or the other. (Rogue also gets a lot of non-standard action attacks in Martial Power, so is a good choice for this plan.)

[devlin1]

This works very, very well when you take all the Interrupt, Reaction, Minor Action, etc. powers that the Ranger has (a lot in Martial Power), then take another Striker class for the other half of the Hybrid. That way you get both class's added damage each turn, instead of just one or the other. (Rogue also gets a lot of non-standard action attacks in Martial Power, so is a good choice for this plan.)
Totally -- Roger, my rogue/ranger, is exactly that.

[The Tim]

Druid is better with MC IMO. I'm personally fond of Beastmaster Ranger MC Druid.

For Hybrid fun, Warden|Swordmage (Ensnarement) MC Fighter can be amusing and have a lot of moving people around the combat map and then fucking them over defense (utility powers to give cover to your allies and make adjacent terrain difficult, teleport enemies adjacent to you, slow them in said difficult terrain, laugh).

Barbarian|Fighter (Tempest) might be interesting. Fighter | Ranger (Two-Handed Fighting) could also work, as the two melee weapon powers don't require the Tempest build.