(4e) Being engulfed by a green slime

[Mescalin]

I have a rules question.

In a game the other day, a pc became 'engulfed' by a green slime - causing:

ongoing damage from acid, as well as becoming
'restrained' (grant combat advantage, immobilised, -2 to attacks, can't be forced to push/pull/sldie)


It wasn't clear though how to fight the green slime..... like - whereas the Black Pudding's 'engulf' power acts as a grab, this term is not mentioned in the Green Slime's description.

Thus the pc who was engulfed wanted to throw the thing off - but instead we had to keep it to melee weapons. The invoker was not able to deal with the critter in this fashion very well!! :(

We also thought that if he had used a ranged power on the beastie (the green slime attacking himself) this would have allowed the slime an Opportunity Attack..... so he didn't. Given his powers are of the ranged variety he was a little bit stuck!

Any thoughts? Has there been an erata for the GS allowing folks to escape a grab to leave its square? Or is it simply the case that you have to kill these critters with melee attacks when they are all over you in an engulf situation? :confused:

Thanks for any help!

[Juriel]

As the Engulf power says, save ends. When he makes that save, he has managed to struggle free. If someone else grants him saves, then they helped him get free, etc. People can do this with a DC 15 Heal check, if nothing else; "that's right, I'm gonna use my herbal remedy knowledge to spring him free!"

Now, the question does arise, that since the power doesn't state it moves the player INTO the slime, they will still be standing in a square adjacent to the slime. So if the slime gets pushed away, they would technically still be engulfing that player and only able to attack them, though they are now on the other side of the room...

[Mescalin]

rofl! I missed that (how?). Save ends!!

As for your second point - I am not sure either!

Thanks again. Always good to have 2 pairs of eyes look at something. :)

[Telmor]

So if the slime gets pushed away, they would technically still be engulfing that player and only able to attack them, though they are now on the other side of the room...

Interesting situation. :D

I dont have the book close by, so I don't know what the text might say, if it says anything, but if I were the DM, I'd rule either:

a) If they manage to move the slime away from the engulfed pc, the engulfment ends. I might allow the slime a saving throw to avoid being moved, though.

or

b) The slime is moved away, the engulfment ends! However, some bits of it is still stuck to the pc, so the ongoing damage part of the engulfment stays until the pc saves against it, though he is no longer immobilised.

Improvise! Adapt! Overcome! :)

[Badgerish]

I ruled that the engulf acted a bit like grab and moved the green slime into the victim's space. Pushing the slime made the slime make a saving throw, fail: break the engulf and push the slime, pass: push both the slime and victim.

Using heal as a standard action grants another save, I'd let another skill allow that as long as it made sense (endurance: brush the slime off with your hands... and ignore the acid-burns. arcana + relevant attack power: modulate/limit your attack to just help free the victim and not do damage)

[Juriel]

It wouldn't be a bad idea. Every time you're not sure which way to rule, just make a saving throw: monster passes = bad for players, monster fails = good for players.

[Gloombunny]

a) If they manage to move the slime away from the engulfed pc, the engulfment ends. I might allow the slime a saving throw to avoid being moved, though.
I like the saving throw idea, though depending on the power used to move the slime, it might make more sense to have the engulfed PC get dragged along with the slime rather than having neither of them move.

[Shawn Conard]

Now, the question does arise, that since the power doesn't state it moves the player INTO the slime, they will still be standing in a square adjacent to the slime. So if the slime gets pushed away, they would technically still be engulfing that player and only able to attack them, though they are now on the other side of the room...

Given that the monster in question is a slime, this isn't all that implausible. But normally it would make a lot more sense for powers like this to last until escape, rather than save ends.